The argument for WoW is that it is slightly better than the other crap themepark, and it is well known and well made crap. You know what you get with WoW, and with everything else following the exact same themepark formula, familiarity wins. With every expansion WoW set new lows, and yet all its competitors go even lower.
For me it is like, themepark was fun for a few years but then the romance was over, and its flaws become more and more in your face. Then I started looking for something that tries to fix themepark flaws, and unless I want to "gank noobs" with kids with too high egos, there is nothing.. For 10 years nothing.. Only refinement of the themepark formula, that for each iteration displays its flaws even more. There are no mmorpg left, only themeparks and pvp games pretending to be sandbox, but are really just themeparks based on pvp.
I find it funny that a lot of folks don't realize the physiological issues you're outing when you say that someone else getting something instantly devalues what you did. How? If you're playing a dungeon at level 90 with 4 other folks... What does it matter how any of you got to 90? If they didn't tell you they insta-leveled, how would you even know? How does that person hitting a button and getting to 90 take away the fun YOU had getting to 90? The nights on vent, the good times with friends, the all-nighters lol. If someone has numerous 90's and doesn't want to do it again, so be it. That's their decision. It doesn't effect you.
Really. People need to get over it. Hope you have fun out there and find the gem for looking for. We all deserve game happiness, even if wow isn't for you.
I find it funny that a lot of folks don't realize the physiological issues you're outing when you say that someone else getting something instantly devalues what you did. How? If you're playing a dungeon at level 90 with 4 other folks... What does it matter how any of you got to 90? If they didn't tell you they insta-leveled, how would you even know? How does that person hitting a button and getting to 90 take away the fun YOU had getting to 90? The nights on vent, the good times with friends, the all-nighters lol. If someone has numerous 90's and doesn't want to do it again, so be it. That's their decision. It doesn't effect you.
Really. People need to get over it. Hope you have fun out there and find the gem for looking for. We all deserve game happiness, even if wow isn't for you.
There was a time when if a person instant leveled (bought) a class to max that they never played, it would be painfully obvious. They wouldn't know how to play. It's not like that anymore in WoW though.
I agree with pretty much everything the OP said. Except #5. Crafting is not super important to me and I'm fine with the way it is in WoW. Retail WoW is, to me, completely unplayable. Though I have found myself wanting to play Vanilla again, so I've recently been following "Kronos-WoW", which is going to be launching a Classic server soon.
I don't blame Blizz though. They've changed the game to appeal to a different demographic. I just happen to not be in that demo.
Originally posted by p4ttythep3rf3ct I didn't think I'd ever sub again either....but I did.
That's WoW for you. It keeps tugging at my heart strings while I fart around on a trial (f2p to lvl20) account every other day or so. Fighting the urge, but I'll be damned if that is the only subscription game that is actually remotely worth a sub these days. Just wondering if I could still have fun with a sword and board prot warrior in PVP like I did in Cata.
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Indeed. The argument only persists because people ignore the true definition of things, and instead apply their own opinion of what they think it should be.
In the early days WoW was close to the now-grandiose definition of sandbox. Close, but not entirely there.
With the active killing of world pvp and LOCAL, community level interaction (battlegrounds->crossrealm BG->Arena->crossrealm dungeons->guild perks->LFR), flight and various means of rapid travel the "world" or sandbox aspect began to shrink. While sitting in Stormwind 15-90 for dungeons is convenient, ultimately it detracts from the game as a whole.
There's a line with "improving" things that you shouldn't cross, they crossed it, moved it out, then crossed it several more times.
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Opinions are like...oh, never mind. Even though I agree with you, it still doesn't make it fact.
i used to promise myself that i will never return to WoW when i decided to quit in 2009, just when i have completed Ulduar ( end raid of Wotlk at that time ), then i went on my normal life and skipped Catac and MoP, probably MoP wasnt that defining of an expansion, but recently came back again because my friends decided to all make a comeback for wod, i should say, its a hell lot of fun now, sure.. there have been changes.
but overall this game is now a lot less hardcore now which is good for me and my friends who have a job and cant play like we used to ( almost 12 hrs per day )
i would recommend all old players to try and comeback because the game is better now imo!
In the early days WoW was close to the now-grandiose definition of sandbox. Close, but not entirely there.
With the active killing of world pvp and LOCAL, community level interaction (battlegrounds->crossrealm BG->Arena->crossrealm dungeons->guild perks->LFR), flight and various means of rapid travel the "world" or sandbox aspect began to shrink. While sitting in Stormwind 15-90 for dungeons is convenient, ultimately it detracts from the game as a whole.
There's a line with "improving" things that you shouldn't cross, they crossed it, moved it out, then crossed it several more times.
I can only think that you never played 'vanilla' WoW. Its always been a themepark, its one of the reasons why it was so successful, and remains so. If you are unclear of what a sandbox game is like, try Eve Online, its just a shame that SWG is not still around or we'd have a perfect example of why WoW was never a sandbox, nor was it ever intended to be.
Funny how your 5 reasons for not coming back... are my TOP 5 reasons for doing so!
1). I never would have returned, had I needed to grind from my Vanilla 60 up to 90
2). I LOVE instances, they're the best story-telling environment in my opinion (like dungeons in D&D)
3). Flippin' cross-realm means that I can base my char on a low population server where mobs don't die as soon as they spawn, yet still find ppl to do dungeons and raids with...mind-blowing!
4). If I want a cool mount (or pet) but don't want to spend 1000 hours farming them, I can work 1-2 hours overtime and buy it with real $$$...I can't buy armor or skill-related-stuff, but I can buy FLUFF!
5). I don't do crafting...not my thing...
so...yeah...came back to WoW for WoD, having a good time!
Funny how your 5 reasons for not coming back... are my TOP 5 reasons for doing so!
1). I never would have returned, had I needed to grind from my Vanilla 60 up to 90
2). I LOVE instances, they're the best story-telling environment in my opinion (like dungeons in D&D)
3). Flippin' cross-realm means that I can base my char on a low population server where mobs don't die as soon as they spawn, yet still find ppl to do dungeons and raids with...mind-blowing!
4). If I want a cool mount (or pet) but don't want to spend 1000 hours farming them, I can work 1-2 hours overtime and buy it with real $$$...I can't buy armor or skill-related-stuff, but I can buy FLUFF!
5). I don't do crafting...not my thing...
so...yeah...came back to WoW for WoD, having a good time!
Same!! So this!
Re: Crafting, there are few or no games out there with meaningful crafting (minus ESO maybe). Issues with crafting is a problem with the genre, not any one specific game.
For me it's one simple reason GREED. I might be the minority, but Blizzard will lose $ on me for wanting too much and this itself will give me more joy than actually playing the game.
I've bought every single expansion they delivered on release and I watched myself being left without content for year+ multiple times. The least they could do was scrap the expansion fee this time. They would've still made far more $ than I spend on any other game and it's 2014 where things are a bit different.
For a company who's job is to capture and create a market this imo is not a good strategy. They show sloppiness and carelessness. Well, they've been loaded for a while so it's understandable. As someone who cares though for Blizzard as any other company that brings games to us, I'll do what I can and help them drain their fat wallet so they start showing some care, competition and greatness as they did decade ago.
Maybe not a true sandbox, but for roleplayers or PvPers, WoW was a lot more open on its initial release. I and my friends did not play to reach level cap or to raid dungeons. We played to contest zones, to gank or be ganked. You could say we were missing the point of the game -- but I had more fun before level 60 than after.
WoW never really had open world PvP other than the first 8 months after release and that was because there were no other options. There were a few PvP hubs with close graveyards like southshore which were essentially BGs before they existed.
Again, this is a major case of rose tinted glasses. If you remember early BGs you had to meet at the entrance and wait until you had a full group to zone in. So sometimes you would be there for an hour plus waiting for a full group. The queue system is clearly a better system.
P.S. - You can still gank or be ganked on a PvP server. Just select one that has a decent balance of both factions, not a server that is like 10:1. The nice thing about a PvP server is, you have no choice.
Comments
The argument for WoW is that it is slightly better than the other crap themepark, and it is well known and well made crap. You know what you get with WoW, and with everything else following the exact same themepark formula, familiarity wins. With every expansion WoW set new lows, and yet all its competitors go even lower.
For me it is like, themepark was fun for a few years but then the romance was over, and its flaws become more and more in your face. Then I started looking for something that tries to fix themepark flaws, and unless I want to "gank noobs" with kids with too high egos, there is nothing.. For 10 years nothing.. Only refinement of the themepark formula, that for each iteration displays its flaws even more. There are no mmorpg left, only themeparks and pvp games pretending to be sandbox, but are really just themeparks based on pvp.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I find it funny that a lot of folks don't realize the physiological issues you're outing when you say that someone else getting something instantly devalues what you did. How? If you're playing a dungeon at level 90 with 4 other folks... What does it matter how any of you got to 90? If they didn't tell you they insta-leveled, how would you even know? How does that person hitting a button and getting to 90 take away the fun YOU had getting to 90? The nights on vent, the good times with friends, the all-nighters lol. If someone has numerous 90's and doesn't want to do it again, so be it. That's their decision. It doesn't effect you.
Really. People need to get over it. Hope you have fun out there and find the gem for looking for. We all deserve game happiness, even if wow isn't for you.
OP give me reason for start playing WoW ,at final
All those new ,mmorpg ,, are crapy action bassed SP+MP games ,seems WOW ruling in genre , still
There was a time when if a person instant leveled (bought) a class to max that they never played, it would be painfully obvious. They wouldn't know how to play. It's not like that anymore in WoW though.
I agree with pretty much everything the OP said. Except #5. Crafting is not super important to me and I'm fine with the way it is in WoW. Retail WoW is, to me, completely unplayable. Though I have found myself wanting to play Vanilla again, so I've recently been following "Kronos-WoW", which is going to be launching a Classic server soon.
I don't blame Blizz though. They've changed the game to appeal to a different demographic. I just happen to not be in that demo.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
That's WoW for you. It keeps tugging at my heart strings while I fart around on a trial (f2p to lvl20) account every other day or so. Fighting the urge, but I'll be damned if that is the only subscription game that is actually remotely worth a sub these days. Just wondering if I could still have fun with a sword and board prot warrior in PVP like I did in Cata.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Yeah good for them. Appeasing to one demographic usually ends up in a game like Wildstar.
After all these years of listening to people say, "Go back to WoW!" whenever they disagreed with something I said, I finally took their advice.
Having a blast.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again.
)
Indeed. The argument only persists because people ignore the true definition of things, and instead apply their own opinion of what they think it should be.
In the early days WoW was close to the now-grandiose definition of sandbox. Close, but not entirely there.
With the active killing of world pvp and LOCAL, community level interaction (battlegrounds->crossrealm BG->Arena->crossrealm dungeons->guild perks->LFR), flight and various means of rapid travel the "world" or sandbox aspect began to shrink. While sitting in Stormwind 15-90 for dungeons is convenient, ultimately it detracts from the game as a whole.
There's a line with "improving" things that you shouldn't cross, they crossed it, moved it out, then crossed it several more times.
Never say Never.....
That is all
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Opinions are like...oh, never mind. Even though I agree with you, it still doesn't make it fact.
Thanks for playing. Here's your cookie.
but overall this game is now a lot less hardcore now which is good for me and my friends who have a job and cant play like we used to ( almost 12 hrs per day )
i would recommend all old players to try and comeback because the game is better now imo!
So What Now?
I can only think that you never played 'vanilla' WoW. Its always been a themepark, its one of the reasons why it was so successful, and remains so. If you are unclear of what a sandbox game is like, try Eve Online, its just a shame that SWG is not still around or we'd have a perfect example of why WoW was never a sandbox, nor was it ever intended to be.
Funny how your 5 reasons for not coming back... are my TOP 5 reasons for doing so!
1). I never would have returned, had I needed to grind from my Vanilla 60 up to 90
2). I LOVE instances, they're the best story-telling environment in my opinion (like dungeons in D&D)
3). Flippin' cross-realm means that I can base my char on a low population server where mobs don't die as soon as they spawn, yet still find ppl to do dungeons and raids with...mind-blowing!
4). If I want a cool mount (or pet) but don't want to spend 1000 hours farming them, I can work 1-2 hours overtime and buy it with real $$$...I can't buy armor or skill-related-stuff, but I can buy FLUFF!
5). I don't do crafting...not my thing...
so...yeah...came back to WoW for WoD, having a good time!
Same!! So this!
Re: Crafting, there are few or no games out there with meaningful crafting (minus ESO maybe). Issues with crafting is a problem with the genre, not any one specific game.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
lol
For me it's one simple reason GREED. I might be the minority, but Blizzard will lose $ on me for wanting too much and this itself will give me more joy than actually playing the game.
I've bought every single expansion they delivered on release and I watched myself being left without content for year+ multiple times. The least they could do was scrap the expansion fee this time. They would've still made far more $ than I spend on any other game and it's 2014 where things are a bit different.
For a company who's job is to capture and create a market this imo is not a good strategy. They show sloppiness and carelessness. Well, they've been loaded for a while so it's understandable. As someone who cares though for Blizzard as any other company that brings games to us, I'll do what I can and help them drain their fat wallet so they start showing some care, competition and greatness as they did decade ago.
WoW never really had open world PvP other than the first 8 months after release and that was because there were no other options. There were a few PvP hubs with close graveyards like southshore which were essentially BGs before they existed.
Again, this is a major case of rose tinted glasses. If you remember early BGs you had to meet at the entrance and wait until you had a full group to zone in. So sometimes you would be there for an hour plus waiting for a full group. The queue system is clearly a better system.
P.S. - You can still gank or be ganked on a PvP server. Just select one that has a decent balance of both factions, not a server that is like 10:1. The nice thing about a PvP server is, you have no choice.