Originally posted by Horusra I always wondered why people in Eve found mining fun or doing the same missions over and over for salvage.
Because they are not doing these activities for "fun", they are doing them in order to accomplish something, to further their goals towards something else, so it is rewarding to do them.
After many years of ignoring it, I recently took up mining, first on one new character I created, now training 4 pilots to high sec mine.
Is it fun? No, though it does give me time to watch some TV while gaming, but do I like seeing 100M - 300M in ore in my holds after a gaming session? You bet, I'll be putting that ISK to good use one day.
Which is why I don't care for gear grind games, I've got no use to work for gear, that lets me go out and work for more gear, what's the point of this?
In EVE I still have delusions of grandeur, someday, when I have enough ISK, I'll wreck havoc on a corner of free space, scourging all in my path.
Yeah, OK, not that likely to happen, but still possible, especially if I team up with like minded individuals, so it makes it worth my time to mine a bit more or, kill a few more rats, or run a few more incursions.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@Kyleran...just do not find the fun in it. With gear I can feel the difference and to me have fun getting it. Mining in Eve just made my eyes bleed for a hope that one day I can use the cash and not just lose it. But everyone has different tastes.
Gear grind, IMO, sits no better nor worse than any other type of endgame. In almost every case, you're repeating content to gradually make your character a wee bit more powerful, which often becomes irrelevant when the level cap increases.
The worst endgames, IMO, are the RNG based games: raid over and over and over for the slightest chance to get a drop which makes you 2% more powerful. Raid for 6 hours without that drop? Wasted 6 hours. Did you get it? Yay! Onto the next drop...
This is why I'm generally an altoholic, and don't bother much with endgames. I'll work on crafting, and dig into new races/classes, or I'll move on to a different game. At the very least I want to run content that makes me better as a player, and repeating the same content over and over is one of the least effective ways to do that.
Some games at least give you a token for each completed raid where if you don't get the drop after x number of times, you can at least use the tokens to buy what you need. I'm ok with that.
But even in my mainstay game, Lotro, I don't bother much with it, anymore. Especially since they went back to their Angmar Executive Producer, who brought back RNG in a big, extremely annoying way.
There's nothing wrong with a gear grind, we all enjoy getting new gear. I believe there is an issue however where each new gear set = a new level of power that makes recent content totally obsolete, that's wasteful and also forces a gear 'race' and a lot of negative social behaviours. A more modern and pleasurable gear progression model is where you are still enticed to get new gear, but your current gear is not made worthless overnight. e.g either skins, slowed progression or horizontal progression (e.g GW2, ESO, Diablo 3)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
go play Darkfall or EvE if you want cross pve-pvp.
Im in the same boat as you. And have tried both these games very shorly, sadly they didnt make me stuck to them. I guess they aint very new-friendly in their gameplay approach, but if i would spend lots of time getting into them, then i bet they are one of a kind.
Bcs cross pve-pvp really should be core in most farming games, IMO. bcs, as you say, if i want good pvp game i play like DotA/HoN/Starcraft or something. Makes no sense to separate these elements in farming games when its the reason you play them (because they cross different elements but with a bit lower quality than games than just pinpoint one element)...
Life is a gear grind and so is every game. "Gear" is interchangeable with any reward or your choosing.
You work so you can get new, maybe better gear, and often to maintain your gear. And then you die.
......
That is a pretty sad way to look at life. I look at life as a journey. I work at what I like to work at so that I can purchase computer games that I can have fun with. Grinding at life would be no fun. Grinding in a game is absolutely no fun.
It is a carrot on a stick for simple minded people.
Don't get me wrong, I sometimes act very simple minded in games too. Trying 23878 times the same platform level in a game etc.
There is just this difference in where in that platform game, you actually progress after succeeding on that challenging level. And then immediately can start the next level.
Where as in completing a dungeon succesfully in a MMO, it just means that it will be your first of many 'succesful' repetitions of that same dungeon with a chance to loot some nice gear or gather enough tokens for gear. This is why dungeons or any challenge in a MMO is rarely a challenge from gameplay perspective. It is most often just a challenge of mind numbing repetition. This is also why many people consider MMO's to be very boring compared to other games. I mean, you can raid during chats about the weather with other people, or while being on your phone half the time. Outside of PVP there is no challenge in MMO's. If there is, it just means you need to grind for better gear first
PVP requires attention obviously, but PVP gear usually requires the same boring repitition. Imo gear based PVP is dumb as fk.
In any MMO, the moment I hit the point where just grinding for gear/achievement is left, I just stop playing that game. It bores me to tears, that kind of gameplay.
Preventing players from running the dungeon only once and never step food in it again? No developer can put out that much content so they need players to repeat it a few times.
Originally posted by Forgrimm MMO's need grinds to keep people playing and keep them spending. Whether it's a gear grind, resource grind, reputation grind, etc., the intention is all the same. Otherwise the developers would have to be constantly releasing new content.
No, they have to release content that is actually fun.
Then people will play it because it is fun.
I swear that this seems obvious, but for some reason most people don't get it. People seem resigned to the fact that they have to play a game and not have fun...WTF...the whole point of playing games is having fun...If you are not having fun, stop now.
Developers release gear grinds because they can't make their game fun, and so instead want to prey on weak minds and make it addictive.
Perhaps because I do not have such a morose outlook on the games I play I consider gear grinds a way to do dungeons in a game. To progress to learn better and more difficult dungeons and getting rewards.Yes you can say they can be a grind but I enjoy grouping mechanics and if the dungeon is hard and when you get a bad group you have to be more on your toes or a group with poor or not optimized gear you work harder to keep them alive. I am talking from the point of view of a healer.
As a healer I need other people to get hurt or else the way I like to play does not exist. I also loved a game like City of Heroes/Villains where I was healing and doing cc at the same time. I love group mechanics I need other people to play with and I enjoy cooperation objectives even in PvP. Like capture the flag or guarding the flag carrier or capturing bases with a group. I do not look at the gear as the end result but rather what I get for doing all the other things I enjoy.
I enjoy a game with dungeons and the only way I see a dungeon working and repeating is with gear grind so I do not consider it an evil but may be a necessary reason for others to be there with me. I like to be given accolades for playing well. Like when people praise me or say they need me for a dungeon or when I save everyone from dying they all say wow that was close fantastic healing and CC or doing that one thing in time to save the group. I enjoyed City of X because it did not have the trinity and playing a controller I was able to approach the game from a non trinity way to complete missions while still being praised and told how well I did.
Yes I play games for praise and that is one of the reasons I play ,I get better gear so that I can tackle harder content but I look at the gear as something I earned and I do not have bitter feeling about the time I spent but I look at it as an achievement . Problem is many people do not enjoy this gear chase and actually hate it and those are the people that look down at those of us who enjoy it as they cannot fathom the reason we do it.
Here's a tip. It's not the gear it is the things you do playing with others and getting acknowledged that matter to me and the gear is incidental.
Comments
Because they are not doing these activities for "fun", they are doing them in order to accomplish something, to further their goals towards something else, so it is rewarding to do them.
After many years of ignoring it, I recently took up mining, first on one new character I created, now training 4 pilots to high sec mine.
Is it fun? No, though it does give me time to watch some TV while gaming, but do I like seeing 100M - 300M in ore in my holds after a gaming session? You bet, I'll be putting that ISK to good use one day.
Which is why I don't care for gear grind games, I've got no use to work for gear, that lets me go out and work for more gear, what's the point of this?
In EVE I still have delusions of grandeur, someday, when I have enough ISK, I'll wreck havoc on a corner of free space, scourging all in my path.
Yeah, OK, not that likely to happen, but still possible, especially if I team up with like minded individuals, so it makes it worth my time to mine a bit more or, kill a few more rats, or run a few more incursions.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Gear grind, IMO, sits no better nor worse than any other type of endgame. In almost every case, you're repeating content to gradually make your character a wee bit more powerful, which often becomes irrelevant when the level cap increases.
The worst endgames, IMO, are the RNG based games: raid over and over and over for the slightest chance to get a drop which makes you 2% more powerful. Raid for 6 hours without that drop? Wasted 6 hours. Did you get it? Yay! Onto the next drop...
This is why I'm generally an altoholic, and don't bother much with endgames. I'll work on crafting, and dig into new races/classes, or I'll move on to a different game. At the very least I want to run content that makes me better as a player, and repeating the same content over and over is one of the least effective ways to do that.
Some games at least give you a token for each completed raid where if you don't get the drop after x number of times, you can at least use the tokens to buy what you need. I'm ok with that.
But even in my mainstay game, Lotro, I don't bother much with it, anymore. Especially since they went back to their Angmar Executive Producer, who brought back RNG in a big, extremely annoying way.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
go play Darkfall or EvE if you want cross pve-pvp.
Im in the same boat as you. And have tried both these games very shorly, sadly they didnt make me stuck to them. I guess they aint very new-friendly in their gameplay approach, but if i would spend lots of time getting into them, then i bet they are one of a kind.
Bcs cross pve-pvp really should be core in most farming games, IMO. bcs, as you say, if i want good pvp game i play like DotA/HoN/Starcraft or something. Makes no sense to separate these elements in farming games when its the reason you play them (because they cross different elements but with a bit lower quality than games than just pinpoint one element)...
That is a pretty sad way to look at life. I look at life as a journey. I work at what I like to work at so that I can purchase computer games that I can have fun with. Grinding at life would be no fun. Grinding in a game is absolutely no fun.
Let's party like it is 1863!
"What exactly is the point of gear grind"
It is a carrot on a stick for simple minded people.
Don't get me wrong, I sometimes act very simple minded in games too. Trying 23878 times the same platform level in a game etc.
There is just this difference in where in that platform game, you actually progress after succeeding on that challenging level. And then immediately can start the next level.
Where as in completing a dungeon succesfully in a MMO, it just means that it will be your first of many 'succesful' repetitions of that same dungeon with a chance to loot some nice gear or gather enough tokens for gear. This is why dungeons or any challenge in a MMO is rarely a challenge from gameplay perspective. It is most often just a challenge of mind numbing repetition. This is also why many people consider MMO's to be very boring compared to other games. I mean, you can raid during chats about the weather with other people, or while being on your phone half the time. Outside of PVP there is no challenge in MMO's. If there is, it just means you need to grind for better gear first
PVP requires attention obviously, but PVP gear usually requires the same boring repitition. Imo gear based PVP is dumb as fk.
In any MMO, the moment I hit the point where just grinding for gear/achievement is left, I just stop playing that game. It bores me to tears, that kind of gameplay.
Preventing players from running the dungeon only once and never step food in it again? No developer can put out that much content so they need players to repeat it a few times.
No, they have to release content that is actually fun.
Then people will play it because it is fun.
I swear that this seems obvious, but for some reason most people don't get it. People seem resigned to the fact that they have to play a game and not have fun...WTF...the whole point of playing games is having fun...If you are not having fun, stop now.
Developers release gear grinds because they can't make their game fun, and so instead want to prey on weak minds and make it addictive.
Perhaps because I do not have such a morose outlook on the games I play I consider gear grinds a way to do dungeons in a game. To progress to learn better and more difficult dungeons and getting rewards.Yes you can say they can be a grind but I enjoy grouping mechanics and if the dungeon is hard and when you get a bad group you have to be more on your toes or a group with poor or not optimized gear you work harder to keep them alive. I am talking from the point of view of a healer.
As a healer I need other people to get hurt or else the way I like to play does not exist. I also loved a game like City of Heroes/Villains where I was healing and doing cc at the same time. I love group mechanics I need other people to play with and I enjoy cooperation objectives even in PvP. Like capture the flag or guarding the flag carrier or capturing bases with a group. I do not look at the gear as the end result but rather what I get for doing all the other things I enjoy.
I enjoy a game with dungeons and the only way I see a dungeon working and repeating is with gear grind so I do not consider it an evil but may be a necessary reason for others to be there with me. I like to be given accolades for playing well. Like when people praise me or say they need me for a dungeon or when I save everyone from dying they all say wow that was close fantastic healing and CC or doing that one thing in time to save the group. I enjoyed City of X because it did not have the trinity and playing a controller I was able to approach the game from a non trinity way to complete missions while still being praised and told how well I did.
Yes I play games for praise and that is one of the reasons I play ,I get better gear so that I can tackle harder content but I look at the gear as something I earned and I do not have bitter feeling about the time I spent but I look at it as an achievement . Problem is many people do not enjoy this gear chase and actually hate it and those are the people that look down at those of us who enjoy it as they cannot fathom the reason we do it.
Here's a tip. It's not the gear it is the things you do playing with others and getting acknowledged that matter to me and the gear is incidental.