1) When a customer confronts a company to create a product, that product is specifically tailored for the customer.
2) When someone creates a product with the "general" customer in mind, that product is tailored to reach as many people as possible under the main development strategy.
---
It's a focus problem. When you tailor a product you can focus into some pretty awesome things and make the specific parts the customer enjoys incredible. If you instead, have no key customer or just choose the basic customer you end up with a wal-mart. It's got everything I need, sure, but I'd rather get my games from Gamestop or my computer parts from Microcenter.
I like #1 better, but we're always stuck with #2. The less customers in #1 the more the customer usually pays for their tailored product. You'll get the best experience and utility from it though! That's not going to work here, you can basically forget about #1 ever happening again without an Indie-Developer. Then when you get an Indie-Developer, you get plagued by the indie vs mainstream dev comparison.
No, we'll always be stuck with #2 until people realize the niche is important. We need more Gamestops and more Microcenters since there's already a Wal-Mart on every corner.
Or maybe the people who want the single player games should stop trying to influence the content of MMO's and go play the single player games that blizz is making.
"influence the content of MMO"? You don't think posts on a forum do that, do you?
Oh i do play single player games that Blizz is making .. D3, SC2 ... all great fun. But why shouldn't I also play and talk about MMOs, when the modern version are like single player games?
In fact, it is not so much that I want MMO to change to SP games. It is more like devs would like my kind of players and make MMOs more like SP games to attract this audience. And if they do, I think i should give them a chance ... not that i choose MMOs over SP games ... just a chance.
Originally posted by Bladestrom That's the thing isn't it, if you aim a game at mainstream it had to appeal to a lot different people who have different tastes, that's never going to work. Now bring into the equation the fact that blizzard aimed at players who traditionally played single player games - move on a few years and the niche MMO is full of single players who blizzard focus on - single players and multiplayer games are fundementally different.The answer is for MMO developers to specialise again - aim for a niche market and not trying to grab 10 million subs (lol@greed) then you can focus more in community based mmorpg.
Or may be devs should just give up on MMOs and do other types of new games like Blizz.
Or maybe the people who want the single player games should stop trying to influence the content of MMO's and go play the single player games that blizz is making. You have taken the argument completely out of proportion. You are simply arguing to argue. If you are so against other players in any form, don't play a MMO; it is that simple. You are making ridiculous requests and arguments at this point. I cannot even take you seriously. The day I go posting to EA to make Madden into a MMO is the day I would consider myself crazy (not that I would know because I am crazy)
While it would be nice if who do not even like the whole concept of MMOs would just go away, I do not see this happening.
Because of this, I actually agree with narius. What if the whole genre died and went away for a few years? The single player game players would forget about them and then we could start all over with the old concept of virtual worlds in which players could WASTE TIME and have fun, again
I just don't see this happening. Too much money to be had from these single player game players
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Bladestrom That's the thing isn't it, if you aim a game at mainstream it had to appeal to a lot different people who have different tastes, that's never going to work. Now bring into the equation the fact that blizzard aimed at players who traditionally played single player games - move on a few years and the niche MMO is full of single players who blizzard focus on - single players and multiplayer games are fundementally different.
The answer is for MMO developers to specialise again - aim for a niche market and not trying to grab 10 million subs (lol@greed) then you can focus more in community based mmorpg.
Or may be devs should just give up on MMOs and do other types of new games like Blizz.
Or maybe the people who want the single player games should stop trying to influence the content of MMO's and go play the single player games that blizz is making.
You have taken the argument completely out of proportion. You are simply arguing to argue.
If you are so against other players in any form, don't play a MMO; it is that simple.
You are making ridiculous requests and arguments at this point. I cannot even take you seriously.
The day I go posting to EA to make Madden into a MMO is the day I would consider myself crazy (not that I would know because I am crazy)
While it would be nice if who do not even like the whole concept of MMOs would just go away, I do not see this happening.
Because of this, I actually agree with narius. What if the whole genre died and went away for a few years? The single player game players would forget about them and then we could start all over with the old concept of virtual worlds in which players could WASTE TIME and have fun, again
I just don't see this happening. Too much money to be had from these single player game players
ALBQ has a good point, too many single player gamers killing the mmo market.
Its like this :
If you had 3 million single players, and 1 million mmo players, and game designers made the mmo games single player games to cross them over you would have 4 million players playing so called mmos.
Then after 30 days the mmo players quit then you have only the Single players, with no mmo players......Then shortly after 30 days even the single players quit because another single player game released. This leaves the game with no players at all
Community is not gone it's just been redefined. Most people are more careful around strangers because they don't want to get trolled / noobed. We're less apt to share personal home life (Facebook weirdos excluded). We look harder for someone who thinks alike. Less accepting of differences now the shiny newness of being online with others has warn. The honeymoon is over. Virginity gone. Learn to live with it.
You need to attract the kind friendly or at the very least passionate players. While at the same time creating a setting that is unattractive for such People's counterparts, agressive and superficial types of players.
Personally thou I Think excessive time consume in these worlds have a great potential to derive you of extrovert action. Obsessive behaviour is certainly a probable outcome of too much time and effort invested. Social relations is the only Way to keep the time spend here truely meaningful, from a developmental point of view, outside of being only intertainment or relaxasation.
Create a game that tries to keep 10 million people happy with the core concept of 'be more powerful than anyone else' and bingo recipe for failed design, most will be disappointed and unhappy. Apply a solution where everyone gets a constant stream of upgrades and you have the equivelant of a dirty plaster over a festering wound.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The developers didn't get rid of community... the players did.
And unless you live under a rock, you will realize that people in general are less social as a whole. Do you know everyone on your street? Do you actually converse with your neighbors? Do you talk with your co-workers other than to conduct business? Chat with the people who work at the stores you shop in? Have real tangible friends and not just a list of names on some friends list?
If you don't care to interact with the people who are around you in real life... why would you care to do so online?
Community is dead because the players don't care to have one...
Just think about it... people clamor about having player housing because they want to insulate themselves from the rest of the world and other players. They like the idea of isolation, in real life and in their virtual one. Until the players decide they want to interact with others, no amount of game design is going to change that.
And the main reason for this is the most of the players in todays mmo's are aholes. Back before mmo's went mainstream it was alot different. Most of you can't imagine how great mmo communities used to be pre wow. Mmo's used to be only played by computer nerds. Now you got every kind of moron in them and open world pvp mmo's are making it worse than ever. So no one wants to be bothered with dealing with other players anymore. You want a social mmo,leave out the open world pvp crap and start making mmo's that are more friendly for the player and not like a second job or worrying about some player ganking you. Once this kind of thing keeps happening to a player they becaome more anti social in the next game they play.
10 million people all forced to gear up as fast as in a game with constantly inflating avg fear scores or be destroyed on pvp/rejected from pve - then apply dmg meters and tools to inspect other people and recipe for Nast community achieved.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Because of this, I actually agree with narius. What if the whole genre died and went away for a few years? The single player game players would forget about them and then we could start all over with the old concept of virtual worlds in which players could WASTE TIME and have fun, again
Strangely, i agree with Alb too. It is like point & click adventures. In its heyday, it is the big AAA games (remember Sierra?). It went dead, and now it is coming back with niche offering and the games are modern updates of the old concept, abate indie and small.
Classical MMOs are dying. It is just not competitive (in cost, in convenience, in fun factor for many) compared to single player games, MOBAs, other type of online games. It is not accident that blizz decides to kill Titan and forget about a new classical type MMO.
May be in a decade of so, technology will make it cheap enough to do very niche indie MMOs. I doubt a few years will do it (took decades for point & click adventures) but it is always possible. Personally i wouldn't care .. since i don't like classical MMOs anyway but i wouldn't hold it against you if you have your game finally.
What you need to bring back is the people who wanted a community and a game. But unfortunately they are spread thin, like butter spread over too much bread. Find yourself a guild is all you can do, but I doubt we will see that community again.
In the old days, we needed the community to 1) build a virtual world and 2) to roleplay in that world. We don't do either in games today, and we don't seem to even want to do those things, for the most part.
We seem to want to do combat/team combat w/ friends and new people in real time...and lobbies are far more efficient for that kind of community.
But unless we want to invest in characters again, play act roles again, and build virtual worlds again, where we don't know--and don't want to know--the real identity of those we game with (like the old days), do we even need the 'thick immersive' environment we used to have?
This is a serious question.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends.
I never did either...frankly, the personas the players portrayed were far more interesting than the players themselves.
We used to have a term...two terms actually:
IRL, for "in real life"...discussion that was rare/
OOC, for an "out of character statement, usually denoted by double brackets: {{ooc text}}
These were terms that we needed to specify simply because we assumed the chat that we saw was in-character dialogue, spoken from the character's point of view, unless noted otherwise. These days, nobody even bothers, because nobody even bothers playing characters anymore.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Kyleran I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends.
That's a shame, don't give up. Even if memorable moments are more sparse, they do happen. If they don't.. make them happen!
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Originally posted by Kyleran I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends.
That's a shame, don't give up. Even if memorable moments are more sparse, they do happen. If they don't.. make them happen!
Why not, then, just make those memorable moments at the bar? Or at church? Or outside somewhere with real people?
Robert Putnam suggests we ought to go bowling again...like, in a real bowling alley. If we want to know people, maybe we should get with people?
Personally, I don't play these games to meet people...I play these games to portray characters, and know other characters. But nobody wants to play that game anymore...frankly, I don't know if we even can, when we expect people to Teamspeak and Skype while we mash buttons.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Kyleran I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends.
That's a shame, don't give up. Even if memorable moments are more sparse, they do happen. If they don't.. make them happen!
Why not, then, just make those memorable moments at the bar? Or at church? Or outside somewhere with real people?
Robert Putnam suggests we ought to go bowling again...like, in a real bowling alley. If we want to know people, maybe we should get with people?
Personally, I don't play these games to meet people...I play these games to portray characters, and know other characters. But nobody wants to play that game anymore...frankly, I don't know if we even can, when we expect people to Teamspeak and Skype while we mash buttons.
That was very rare to begin with. You should look into pen & paper RPGs.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
What's needed to bring back community? You need to start getting out of your shells and actively interact with the people around you. Nobody is going to waste their time on you if you are boring. /thread off
Edit: Not to mention that most people now just use VoIP software to communicate. Crazy right.
Edit 2: Seriously, just lets do checks with todays MMOs and the old MMOs
What tools do you have to socialize?
1) Chat? - check
2) Chat bubbles so you can see who's saying what?? - check, excluding TESO
3) Guilds/Clans? - check
4) Group Content? - check
5) Integrated VoIP? - old MMOs didn't have that, some new ones do.
6) Areal chat, zone chat, map chat - some old MMOs didn't have that
So you see ... the tools are there, even some are added compared to old MMOs.
Originally posted by Kyleran I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends.
Again it's the game not the players, they set the rules.
Sure, people around you are not going to have time or even get irritated with playing social when they have 256 part story quest they have to finish or when the best loot is by doing dynamic events.
It's kind of like prison
The guards only let you out in the yard for one hour a day. Why bother trying to make friends out there when you have your scheduled meal friends or your group therapy friends....They set the pace !!
Originally posted by Kyleran I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends. Agree 110%..
Again it's the game not the players, they set the rules.
Sure, people around you are not going to have time or even get irritated with playing social when they have 256 part story quest they have to finish or when the best loot is by doing dynamic events.
It's kind of like prison
The guards only let you out in the yard for one hour a day. Why bother trying to make friends out there when you have your scheduled meal friends or your group therapy friends....They set the pace !!
And also true.. The devs designed the game to actually discourage social group behavior.. There are MORE hurdles then ever before and no reason to actually get to know the players around you.. Everything in the games today are too fast, with too many hoops to jump through..
Imagine it this way.. A golf league in where the players don't even have to golf together, instead just turn in their score sometime during the week.. How social and fun would that be? Sure that would be more convenient to many people, it might actually allow for a bigger league, but would it actually be a social activity anymore? I wouldn't like it.. Most of the fun in playing is the social razzing, laughing and yapping that takes place at the same time.. 90% of all the rememberable moments in social golfing is NOT my actual score/play but all the fun I had with others while playing.. HENCE: MMORPG
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Personally, I don't play these games to meet people...I play these games to portray characters, and know other characters. But nobody wants to play that game anymore...frankly, I don't know if we even can, when we expect people to Teamspeak and Skype while we mash buttons.
I like to point to a very famous "role player" from WoW. Everyone knows him. His name is Leeroy Jenkins. And you also see how the other players handled his role playing.
I'm not sure of that is good or bad, but you will NOT find megalomaniac necromancers who think they can kill anything and everything, uber-strong fighters that forget to breathe if someone does not remind them to, or druids that will prevent players from killing baby bunnies. Why? Other players will not stand for it. That is a "stupid" way to play. It interferes with others' "beating the game" and much sought after "efficiency."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Kyleran I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with with my small group of friends.
That's a shame, don't give up. Even if memorable moments are more sparse, they do happen. If they don't.. make them happen!
Why not, then, just make those memorable moments at the bar? Or at church? Or outside somewhere with real people?
Robert Putnam suggests we ought to go bowling again...like, in a real bowling alley. If we want to know people, maybe we should get with people?
Personally, I don't play these games to meet people...I play these games to portray characters, and know other characters. But nobody wants to play that game anymore...frankly, I don't know if we even can, when we expect people to Teamspeak and Skype while we mash buttons.
If you go to the bar and then to church it makes for some very memorable social interaction. You also tend to end up outside.
I'm not sure of that is good or bad, but you will NOT find megalomaniac necromancers who think they can kill anything and everything, uber-strong fighters that forget to breathe if someone does not remind them to, or druids that will prevent players from killing baby bunnies. Why? Other players will not stand for it. That is a "stupid" way to play. It interferes with others' "beating the game" and much sought after "efficiency."
It is a problem because you depend on others to have fun.
Just play solo, and you can play any style. If you don't optimize, no one will give you a hard time.
Basically, there are two choices. You play solo, and don't care what other say. Or you play multiplayer, and have to modify your behavior somewhat (unlike you are the norm) so others will let you play with them.
That is why I seldom bother with strangers. I don't have to tolerate anyone, and they don't have to tolerate me. Some gameplay (like pvp, or public quests) sidestep that dependency.
I'm not sure of that is good or bad, but you will NOT find megalomaniac necromancers who think they can kill anything and everything, uber-strong fighters that forget to breathe if someone does not remind them to, or druids that will prevent players from killing baby bunnies. Why? Other players will not stand for it. That is a "stupid" way to play. It interferes with others' "beating the game" and much sought after "efficiency."
It is a problem because you depend on others to have fun.
Just play solo, and you can play any style. If you don't optimize, no one will give you a hard time.
Basically, there are two choices. You play solo, and don't care what other say. Or you play multiplayer, and have to modify your behavior somewhat (unlike you are the norm) so others will let you play with them.
That is why I seldom bother with strangers. I don't have to tolerate anyone, and they don't have to tolerate me. Some gameplay (like pvp, or public quests) sidestep that dependency.
Just play solo ?
Why play an mmo ?
See, developers are making there games for everyone to crossover.....Now we don't have mmos anymore...There gone !
Comments
1) When a customer confronts a company to create a product, that product is specifically tailored for the customer.
2) When someone creates a product with the "general" customer in mind, that product is tailored to reach as many people as possible under the main development strategy.
---
It's a focus problem. When you tailor a product you can focus into some pretty awesome things and make the specific parts the customer enjoys incredible. If you instead, have no key customer or just choose the basic customer you end up with a wal-mart. It's got everything I need, sure, but I'd rather get my games from Gamestop or my computer parts from Microcenter.
I like #1 better, but we're always stuck with #2. The less customers in #1 the more the customer usually pays for their tailored product. You'll get the best experience and utility from it though! That's not going to work here, you can basically forget about #1 ever happening again without an Indie-Developer. Then when you get an Indie-Developer, you get plagued by the indie vs mainstream dev comparison.
No, we'll always be stuck with #2 until people realize the niche is important. We need more Gamestops and more Microcenters since there's already a Wal-Mart on every corner.
"influence the content of MMO"? You don't think posts on a forum do that, do you?
Oh i do play single player games that Blizz is making .. D3, SC2 ... all great fun. But why shouldn't I also play and talk about MMOs, when the modern version are like single player games?
In fact, it is not so much that I want MMO to change to SP games. It is more like devs would like my kind of players and make MMOs more like SP games to attract this audience. And if they do, I think i should give them a chance ... not that i choose MMOs over SP games ... just a chance.
Because of this, I actually agree with narius. What if the whole genre died and went away for a few years? The single player game players would forget about them and then we could start all over with the old concept of virtual worlds in which players could WASTE TIME and have fun, again
I just don't see this happening. Too much money to be had from these single player game players
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
ALBQ has a good point, too many single player gamers killing the mmo market.
Its like this :
If you had 3 million single players, and 1 million mmo players, and game designers made the mmo games single player games to cross them over you would have 4 million players playing so called mmos.
Then after 30 days the mmo players quit then you have only the Single players, with no mmo players......Then shortly after 30 days even the single players quit because another single player game released. This leaves the game with no players at all
Try and follow that !!!
You need to attract the kind friendly or at the very least passionate players. While at the same time creating a setting that is unattractive for such People's counterparts, agressive and superficial types of players.
Personally thou I Think excessive time consume in these worlds have a great potential to derive you of extrovert action. Obsessive behaviour is certainly a probable outcome of too much time and effort invested. Social relations is the only Way to keep the time spend here truely meaningful, from a developmental point of view, outside of being only intertainment or relaxasation.
Sry about my doubtful english skills in advance.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
And the main reason for this is the most of the players in todays mmo's are aholes. Back before mmo's went mainstream it was alot different. Most of you can't imagine how great mmo communities used to be pre wow. Mmo's used to be only played by computer nerds. Now you got every kind of moron in them and open world pvp mmo's are making it worse than ever. So no one wants to be bothered with dealing with other players anymore. You want a social mmo,leave out the open world pvp crap and start making mmo's that are more friendly for the player and not like a second job or worrying about some player ganking you. Once this kind of thing keeps happening to a player they becaome more anti social in the next game they play.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Strangely, i agree with Alb too. It is like point & click adventures. In its heyday, it is the big AAA games (remember Sierra?). It went dead, and now it is coming back with niche offering and the games are modern updates of the old concept, abate indie and small.
Classical MMOs are dying. It is just not competitive (in cost, in convenience, in fun factor for many) compared to single player games, MOBAs, other type of online games. It is not accident that blizz decides to kill Titan and forget about a new classical type MMO.
May be in a decade of so, technology will make it cheap enough to do very niche indie MMOs. I doubt a few years will do it (took decades for point & click adventures) but it is always possible. Personally i wouldn't care .. since i don't like classical MMOs anyway but i wouldn't hold it against you if you have your game finally.
In the old days, we needed the community to 1) build a virtual world and 2) to roleplay in that world. We don't do either in games today, and we don't seem to even want to do those things, for the most part.
We seem to want to do combat/team combat w/ friends and new people in real time...and lobbies are far more efficient for that kind of community.
But unless we want to invest in characters again, play act roles again, and build virtual worlds again, where we don't know--and don't want to know--the real identity of those we game with (like the old days), do we even need the 'thick immersive' environment we used to have?
This is a serious question.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with
with my small group of friends.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I never did either...frankly, the personas the players portrayed were far more interesting than the players themselves.
We used to have a term...two terms actually:
IRL, for "in real life"...discussion that was rare/
OOC, for an "out of character statement, usually denoted by double brackets: {{ooc text}}
These were terms that we needed to specify simply because we assumed the chat that we saw was in-character dialogue, spoken from the character's point of view, unless noted otherwise. These days, nobody even bothers, because nobody even bothers playing characters anymore.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
That's a shame, don't give up. Even if memorable moments are more sparse, they do happen. If they don't.. make them happen!
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Why not, then, just make those memorable moments at the bar? Or at church? Or outside somewhere with real people?
Robert Putnam suggests we ought to go bowling again...like, in a real bowling alley. If we want to know people, maybe we should get with people?
Personally, I don't play these games to meet people...I play these games to portray characters, and know other characters. But nobody wants to play that game anymore...frankly, I don't know if we even can, when we expect people to Teamspeak and Skype while we mash buttons.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
That was very rare to begin with. You should look into pen & paper RPGs.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
What's needed to bring back community? You need to start getting out of your shells and actively interact with the people around you. Nobody is going to waste their time on you if you are boring. /thread off
Edit: Not to mention that most people now just use VoIP software to communicate. Crazy right.
Edit 2: Seriously, just lets do checks with todays MMOs and the old MMOs
What tools do you have to socialize?
1) Chat? - check
2) Chat bubbles so you can see who's saying what?? - check, excluding TESO
3) Guilds/Clans? - check
4) Group Content? - check
5) Integrated VoIP? - old MMOs didn't have that, some new ones do.
6) Areal chat, zone chat, map chat - some old MMOs didn't have that
So you see ... the tools are there, even some are added compared to old MMOs.
You just grew older and less social.
Again it's the game not the players, they set the rules.
Sure, people around you are not going to have time or even get irritated with playing social when they have 256 part story quest they have to finish or when the best loot is by doing dynamic events.
It's kind of like prison
The guards only let you out in the yard for one hour a day. Why bother trying to make friends out there when you have your scheduled meal friends or your group therapy friends....They set the pace !!
- games that promote a culture where everyone tries to be more powerful than everyone else.
games that force you to play x hours every week or you will become weak Compared to others through gear.
- balancing issues that cause gross unfairness.
- tools to inspect other people, dmg meters, ilevel. use meta build or get out!
- homogenisation of classes and skills
- power gains so fast that any reward becomes meaningless in short order.
- instance design that promotes anti social play - so easy people just steamroll it and no need to talk.
- booting people because they are 'noobs'. Aka meter watching/no patience/intolerance.
- games
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
And also true.. The devs designed the game to actually discourage social group behavior.. There are MORE hurdles then ever before and no reason to actually get to know the players around you.. Everything in the games today are too fast, with too many hoops to jump through..
Imagine it this way.. A golf league in where the players don't even have to golf together, instead just turn in their score sometime during the week.. How social and fun would that be? Sure that would be more convenient to many people, it might actually allow for a bigger league, but would it actually be a social activity anymore? I wouldn't like it.. Most of the fun in playing is the social razzing, laughing and yapping that takes place at the same time.. 90% of all the rememberable moments in social golfing is NOT my actual score/play but all the fun I had with others while playing.. HENCE: MMORPG
I'm not sure of that is good or bad, but you will NOT find megalomaniac necromancers who think they can kill anything and everything, uber-strong fighters that forget to breathe if someone does not remind them to, or druids that will prevent players from killing baby bunnies. Why? Other players will not stand for it. That is a "stupid" way to play. It interferes with others' "beating the game" and much sought after "efficiency."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
If you go to the bar and then to church it makes for some very memorable social interaction. You also tend to end up outside.
It is a problem because you depend on others to have fun.
Just play solo, and you can play any style. If you don't optimize, no one will give you a hard time.
Basically, there are two choices. You play solo, and don't care what other say. Or you play multiplayer, and have to modify your behavior somewhat (unlike you are the norm) so others will let you play with them.
That is why I seldom bother with strangers. I don't have to tolerate anyone, and they don't have to tolerate me. Some gameplay (like pvp, or public quests) sidestep that dependency.
Just play solo ?
Why play an mmo ?
See, developers are making there games for everyone to crossover.....Now we don't have mmos anymore...There gone !