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Has anything like SWG ever happened before?
kairaene
Member Posts: 256
Hey, first time poster - long time reader. 
Played SWG for 2+ years and all that NGE sucks blah blah blah.
Anyway, SWG was my first mmorpg. I have dabbled in others but couldnt find the magic it had for me. So, my experience in mmorpg's is limited.
I was wondering has there ever been such a case of bad mismanagement as we have seen with SWG in other games? Is it because its a Star wars games that makes us all scratch our head and say.. How did that screw that up? Any other gaming horror stories that compare?
Comments
Only one other mmorpg developer was dumb enough to change the core of a game. DAoC did this and quickly realized their mistake. The ended up creating "classic" servers. One of their devs even recently posted about how it was a mistake for developers to change a mmorpg so radically to try and get another target market.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1468&Itemid=35&limit=1&limitstart=0
Ironically SOE was there too, always wondered if Smedley listened in when this was read.
Jeff Hickman
My rant is about how, as game developers, the fact that we often make changes to core pieces of our games after we launch. It's a critical error. Weve made changes to our games that were core changes and, while I cant say they were detrimental to our game, they probably didnt achieve the goals we wanted them to achieve.
Its nice to know I was a part of gaming history. Biggest screwup ever by a company that should have known better. Sad really. At least I got to ride the Titanic of gaming down to the bottom of the ocean.
So, I guess any guesses at what might happen are pure speculation(with some rumor thrown in). No real precedent to go on. Knowing that LA is quite strict with their IP makes me know they will do something. Just gotta wait and see.
Nothing quite like the moronic antics of the SOE SWG team, but there have been major MMOs close their doors. Earth and Beyond is a prime example. That game was pretty main stream and ended up unceremoniously closing their doors. Lots of MMOs have made stupid moves but most of them are smart enough to rectify and mend wounds with their vets. For some reason SOE thinks they can plow ahead without the mandate from the masses. What they fail to realize is that even if they do get this game into a PLAYABLE state, no player in their right mind will want to play after seeing how they treated paying customers.
The Millenium Lee
Which leads me to Belive LA wanted the changes.
No other SOE product has a problem, but SWG which isn't their license
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Don't click here...no2
LA and SOE are jointly responsible it seems. If you contract a job out, you can only blame the contractor for so long before you should take matters in your own hands.
LOL, i cant stand people that dont know their ass from a hole in the ground!
PS: was and still is populary when you consider most MMOS dont even have 50k subscribers
EQ: alive and kiking dont know what your thinkin about
EQ2: the population is growing.....they merged servers because of the huge gap growing between high pop servers and low pop servers, but I could not expect you to comprehend such a thing.
And the CU didnt do anything but help the game
The new EQ2, better than ever befor !
don't click this link...
Mythic may have quickly realized ToA was a horrible decision, but they took far too long to rectify their mistake. The classic servers have brought folks back, but ToA ruined DAoC permanently.
And yes, Sony is starting to feel the pressure. WoW is mopping the floor with everyone right now, with no end in sight. EQ1 is a warhorse, but an aging one. EQ2 cannot be living up to their expectations right now. They opened more servers than they needed and now have to eat the bad publicity surrounding the server mergers. The Matrix Online is a niche product at best and will never be more than that. Planetside will eventually become a free game, in the same manner of AO, with ingame advertising. And, well, we all know the debacle that is SWG.
None of SOE's games are great. They bundle them all into a package of averageness in hopes folks can pick and choose between their mediocrity. This will not last long. Especially if Vanguard delivers, this will drive EQ1 subs down as folks flock to what EQ2 should have been. Lord of the Rings will pull folks, even if the game is sub-par as the Legolas and Aragorn crowd will finally be able to be Legollass and Arogran in Middle Earth!!
LOL, i cant stand people that dont know their ass from a hole in the ground!
PS: was and still is populary when you consider most MMOS dont even have 50k subscribers
EQ: alive and kiking dont know what your thinkin about
EQ2: the population is growing.....they merged servers because of the huge gap growing between high pop servers and low pop servers, but I could not expect you to comprehend such a thing.
And the CU didnt do anything but help the game
Wow talk about gullible. Did you memorize that quote from SOE or are you brainwashed ? You actually believe that spin from SOE LOL ? Sure dude, SOE is merging servers because population is growing. I have a bridge for sale in NY if you're interested.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
Actually i know quite a few people from a few games who plan on moving to EQ2 after the 21st . The only thing that was turning alot of people i know away was lack of real PVP . I will not be surprised if they see a drastic increase in Subs .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A server merger is a drastic measure thats only done when the mmorpg has declined in subscribers. It had to have LOST players. The game is way past growing anymore and therefore SOE's marketing suits will consolidate servers to cut costs.
And SOE certainly isnt anticipating any growth as well. No company is going to downsize unless they're 100% positive growth isnt going to happen.
This is no different than any other industry when its losing money. Take Ford for example. They just announced factories in several cities are going to close down to save money (since theyve lost several billion last few quarters). Losing sales means its time to cut costs.
SOE wouldnt do such a move unless it was absolutely necessary as everyone knows it signals to the world their mmorpg is on a downward spiral. Of course, SOE's PR folks will attempt to spin it into a positive move and as we see a few folks here will buy such a ridiculous notion.
Face facts EQ2 fanboys...
Server Merger = dying game
HAHa what game isn't dying according to you ? I don't even play EQ2 , So i hope your not talking about me .I do know for fact alot of my friends are planning on buying it and starting up a guild on the upcoming PVP servers . I may even join them ..
As for you calling everyone a SOE fanboi , You seem to be the biggest SOE fanboi I've encountered on any gaming forum . You just will never get over the fact they changed their game on you .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In the online games industry this is the worst case of revamping a game, Mythic did it but didn't have thier heads up thier bottoms and made classic servers.
I'd equate the NGE to the "New Coke" of online games, no-one was asked but now it's a case of "like it or lump it". And I'm certain SOE is the first company to do it twice to the same game, I doubt SOE will get a third shot out of making another "new coke" (more like a "new Cherry Coke"!).
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Ultima Online got sued in the old days. And the Mourning situation comes to mind.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
If i may , not trying to troll .. But NGE is the product of focus groups .. though it is not based on veteran SWG players opinions , which most of us would of preferred.. I used to work for a marketing firm , we mostly did third party focus group testing for major companys . Now from my experience in the Field , SOE / LA probably had little to do with the actual focus testing . These things are usually handled by Third party groups as the one I previously worked for .
What usually happens is they gather a group of targeted customers ( pepsi drinkers if your working for coke ) In this case i would suspect , WOW players star wars fans general gamers . most of the time this process would take a few weeks .
Once you have your group together , you begin screening to assure they are indeed your target audience . The next phase would be showing the group a sample of the product said company is working on . Then over a period of a week or more , you gather responces from the group evaluate it and from that information the company will begin creating the product . Obviously there is a little more behind it , but i have had no coffee and i hated that JOb so this is all i feel like typing ...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LOL, i cant stand people that dont know their ass from a hole in the ground!
PS: was and still is populary when you consider most MMOS dont even have 50k subscribers
EQ: alive and kiking dont know what your thinkin about
EQ2: the population is growing.....they merged servers because of the huge gap growing between high pop servers and low pop servers, but I could not expect you to comprehend such a thing.
And the CU didnt do anything but help the game
Perhaps you should really check your facts before insulting people like that...
Let's examine this statement:
- "PS: was and still is populary when you consider most MMOS dont even have 50k subscribers"
Most MMOs don't even have 50K??? ROFLMAO Having 50K subscribers in an MMO is pretty much a failure when you consider costs of operations. It's too bad that mmorpgchart.com hasn't been outdated for a while. But we know for example that WoW has millions of subs, Lineage I & II also have millions, EVE online has 100K, Final Fantasy easily has 500K, CoH/CoV easily has 100K too. Numbers for SOE products are difficult to discern because of the Station Pass. But saying that "most MMOs don't even have 50K subscribers" is plain foolish.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
If i may , not trying to troll .. But NGE is the product of focus groups .. though it is not based on veteran SWG players opinions , which most of us would of preferred.. I used to work for a marketing firm , we mostly did third party focus group testing for major companys . Now from my experience in the Field , SOE / LA probably had little to do with the actual focus testing . These things are usually handled by Third party groups as the one I previously worked for .
What usually happens is they gather a group of targeted customers ( pepsi drinkers if your working for coke ) In this case i would suspect , WOW players star wars fans general gamers . most of the time this process would take a few weeks .
Once you have your group together , you begin screening to assure they are indeed your target audience . The next phase would be showing the group a sample of the product said company is working on . Then over a period of a week or more , you gather responces from the group evaluate it and from that information the company will begin creating the product . Obviously there is a little more behind it , but i have had no coffee and i hated that JOb so this is all i feel like typing ...
Malick... do marketing companies publish the results of their research into focus groups? Honest question, no flame.
Reason why I ask is because, even though what you say makes a lot of sense, nobody knows who was in those focus groups. How many groups? Who conducted the research? What were their ages? SOE hasn't said, nobody in the community has come out and acknowledged that they were part of such focus groups. Put that together with SOE's more than questionable business practices and constant lying and I wouldn't be surprised if such groups even existed.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
[quote]Originally posted by duncan_922
Malick... do marketing companies publish the results of their research into focus groups? Honest question, no flame.
Reason why I ask is because, even though what you say makes a lot of sense, nobody knows who was in those focus groups. How many groups? Who conducted the research? What were their ages? SOE hasn't said, nobody in the community has come out and acknowledged that they were part of such focus groups. Put that together with SOE's more than questionable business practices and constant lying and I wouldn't be surprised if such groups even existed.[/b][/quote]
Actually most of the information is not released to the public . I can say that rule # 1 in marketing is the customer is always wrong . thats the first thing i was told when i started the job . Customers are not the concern to a marketing firm , only your pre picked participants . If you have ever been called by a phone market researcher you will know what im talking about . ...
Sorry we have completed our goal for your age group .. BS .. or the classic Are you now or ever been employed by a marketing agency ????? lol wonder why they ask that question .. hahah
Oh you don't even want me to go into, working with political parties at another marketing Job i had lol .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well here's my opinion on the "Focus groups" (if they even existed, which is debatable),
Step A: Smedley has a wet dream, in which he has a WoW like game with similar subscription numbers.
Step B: Smedley Decides he's going to take the game with the biggest growth potential and revamp it into a WoW format and watch the subs roll in!
Step C: Smedley "proposes" this idea to his executives in a little meeting, they think he's insane but have learnt that blind acceptance gets the bills paid.
Step
In order to help justify his decision and cover his tracks, Smedley commissions a private company to question focus groups until the desired result (a "yes we love it") is reached.
Step E: Has his DEVs nervously code the NGE whilst keeping it tightly under wraps and denying its existance to the community.
Step F: Sell and expansion first to the smelly old customers you don't want 1 week before the NGE goes live, and post another post-CU letter to the community.
Step G: Watch your subscribers dwindle while no new customers come, whilst reading all the horrific reviews your getting and watching Julio Torres demonstrate SWG bugs on U.S TV!
Step H: Purchase a large glass top coffe table for your office along with a packet of razor blades and get your local dealers address.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Ok, am I the ONLY one who sees a correspondance between Jim Ward stepping into the presedency of Lucas Arts and the forced changes in SWG? It's even been strongly hinted at by that spineless brain trust Smedley that Ward is directly responsible for getting things moving to make SWG "faster paced" and "more star wars-y". This was a dance that it took two dumbasses to perform.
It just boggles my mind that people are still blaming SOE alone and praying to George Lucas to intervene and give us back our game. Lucas Arts isn't going to fix it because this began with Lucas Arts in the person of President Jim Ward. YES Smedley is guilty as sin. His hands are dripping the virtual blood of Galaxies and he's as full of shit as any sheister in history. But he didn't dream this crap up himself. He and his corporate slaves in SOE carried out the orders of the man who decided that SWG was going to undergo huge changes -- the man RUNNING LA.
There is no doubt in my mind that not only are we NOT going to get our game back, even if LA does jettison SOE, but that any future changes will be even MORE disasterous, as Ward is not in touch with the MMORPG world. Lucas Arts is a console and single player pc producer with no idea how to create or manage an MMO, which is why they dragged SOE into the project to begin with. Now that Lucas Arts is forcibly taking a more active role in the direction of SWG, it's suffering that lack of vision and experience -- as if being produced and managed by SOE in loose partnership with LA weren't bad enough.
Lucas Arts is bringing in the focus groups. Groups consisting entirely of males under the age of 25. Women and older men were not and are not being included in these groups, as we are no longer even vaguely part of their target demographic. They obviously reason that because WoW is so huge and because a large percentage of WoW players are juvenile males that somehow boys too young to get a credit card on their own are the only people who play MMORPGs. Granted, this is about the least logical, least rational and most astoundingly stupid leap of reasoning a person could come up with, but this is really what it seems they've come up with in their pointy little out-of-touch damaged brains. Basicly they're shaping gaming the same way the mo-tards in Hollywood come up with their programming.
/shrug
/sigh
It's going to be a sad, boring, pathetic year or so in gaming.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
/sigh
It's going to be a sad, boring, pathetic year or so in gaming.[/b][/quote]
Honestly , im not trying to flame you . But you really should have a more positive outlook if you want to enjoy any game. ImO MMORPG's are basicly what you make of them .If you don't think your going to have fun you most certainly will not .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson