Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
When Crafting Goes Wrong
Wighty
Member UncommonPosts: 699
Before everyone gets out the pitch forks and torches let me first clarify that I enjoy the deep crafting and to an extent the complexity of it especially when it comes to some of the advanced fittings etc.
Where I feel it goes wrong is on some of the simpler items such as a BANDAGE...
I figure ok I have first aid skill from the tutorial and I am running low on the amount they gave me so let me make a few more!
Go to my recipe list and see bandage in my first aid recipe list! GOLDEN!
Now the recipe seems simple enough... (1) Cloth and (1) Sterilizing agent (available at shop) and BOOM 10 bandages...
Ok Cloth... hmmm... DL and update the in game DB type: /help updatecraftingdb in game
Cloth is tailoring, so I buy tailoring book, but Cloth can also be polyester filaments (Chemistry)
As you investigate deeper, in order to make any of these items you need to basically drill down to the point of combining the basic raw chemical compounds for each ingredient which is another 15 or so steps in order to make a piece of cloth to make a simple bandage... For me this is mind numbing and even though I was a very early adopter to the game (pledged $150 first round backer) I haven't played much because of the rough initial state of the game (still is to some degree).
Now perhaps I am doing something wrong or maybe I missed something along the way and someone can enlighten me towards a simpler path because I do recognize that just because something can be crafted from the basic raw elements that doesn't mean it is the only way.
All I want to do is make a few simple bandages without needing a PhD from MIT in order to do so.
Edit: I also realize they are cheap to purchase, however that is not the point
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Comments
The repopulation is designed to be economy and community driven.
You can do all crafting of sub-components yourself, but that's pretty masochistic
There are many different skill-lines within crafting and hundreds of recipes.
If you want to create a bandage, go buy the cloth from or trade with a tailor that already made it. You can also put out a work-order for it.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I don't disagree when it comes to more complex items...
We are talking simple bandages though... not the space shuttle...
Xipher makes a good point as well where this level of crafting intensity will be widely dependent on a diverse and ample enough playerbase.
I don't think alts will make a differnce as you can theoretically max every skill, it is just highly impractical to try to craft complex items yourself considering the amount of sub components needed.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Alt will allow people to craft multiple items at the same time since there is nothing stopping people from having more than 1 account. If I was a crafter, this is what I would do.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
i personally absolutly agree with this - its just way too deep, overly and unecessarily complex and tedious...they could cut easily 2-3 layers of the crafting and it still would be complex
bu i guess the ex swg guys really "enjoy" this
im not sure you can max every skill - there is diminishing returns, the more you learn, the harder it is to learn new skills...so specialization is encouraged...i mean, in the end there is a difference between "possible in theory in 100 years" and "feasible in reality".
Making things complicated for sake of it never works.. FFXIV 1.0 tried same approach to crafting and we all know how it worked out.
I am all for deep crafting but this is not it.
thats i think is an important point
complex crafting does NOT mean tedious and overly complicated
crafting in repop just takes a lot longer cause you need to get a lot more stuff - but besides that its pretty much the same as every standard mmo - how is that better???
lets face it, all that repop does is build additional walls you have to "endure through" to get a result and therefore sheds out a lot of players that dont want to do that...the remaining population can then feel more "elite" about themselves for not being "bloody casuals".... but in all this process, i dont see where the improvement in fun is...
i dont give a * about elite or complex or hardcore - all i care about is if im having fun from the minute i start or if i have to farm first 6000 compounds for a week to make one fucking bandages before having 30 seconds of gratification
it worked pretty well, problem with 1.0 was imo more the fact that the components you needed were of ridiculous levels (someth like l15 hammer needed l30 shaft)
as a poster above said - it is meant to foster specialization and player interaction - make one component and sell it, or make 1 final item and buy components for it
imho, right now the crafting is *peeping* annoying. But I blame that on alpha. My guess is that once it is released or maybe even later in beta you can buy the components in the auction house. 2-3 clicks and maybe farm one component yourself(heat source f.e.) and you get your stuff.
Currently I just don't get the whole crafting yet because you have sub-sub-sub-sub components which makes the whole thing a bit crazy for me. Even basic stuff like Refine Ore takes a while to figure out which agents yield what result.*** But there will be guides that are a bit more readable than the database in game... at least I hope so... well which game doesnt have a wiki right?
edit: *** for anyone not playing, you have about 20 different ores and 30 different agents. The recipe Refine Ore takes one ore and 3 different agents. Each agent is made up of 2-3 different sub ingrediants.... do the math.
There are some upcoming ease of use features which will make things a bit easier without sacrificing complexity. The biggest problem right now for new crafters is generally there are components and they don't know how to make them. Combine that with peoples natural instinct to try to do everything on their own, which is an uphill battle in a game like this (by design).
I'd recommend this site for anyone still finding their way in crafting: http://aena.at/craftmap/
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
And that is the way it is designed, to stimulate an economy between crafters and others, but thanks to your complaining they will dumb it down so that you can have your bandages without getting the degree at MIT.
Man people can't even handle hardcore crafting these days. Thanks a lot.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
And you have just taken all the fun out of it.
Give everyone the list and there goes the joy of discovery. Everyone is on the same footing and the game hasn't even launched.
No wonder people only play MMO's for short periods.
3 months and everything you need to know is out there for everyone to use.
Sigh....
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
No it didn't and you are lying if you think it did. The crafting in ARR is vastly different from 1.0. You guys still confuse tedious with deep.
Is there bag and bank space to hold the crazy amount of crafting materials that someone can obtain?
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Just what this game needs, arrogant 'hardcore' wanabes that will ruin the game because they will try to silence any improvements to the game by calling it whining and complaining,
No idea about Repop overall, but that crafting map looks ridiculous. Like 5 steps for bandages, and 13 for a standard armor? I played several games with an economy completely provided by players. Crafting was like 3 steps usually. Get raw leather, make leather, make leather armor. Or take cloth, make canvas, take iron bars and make rod to hold canvas, combine.
Heck, i played carpenter for 2 years in UO. I did quite well, especially after teaming up with my only real competitor. If the GMs didn't just supply the furniture when people bought a house or land for guilds, and with item decay of some sort, i probably would've been even more famous and rich..
Crafting does work well in Vindictus, too, at least with rare items. Usually, there is one actual crafting step.
If The Repopulation gets a big enough player base that some crafters focus on the sub-sub-sub-compenents etc., and make their profit by selling those in bulk, it can work. You still could easily cut away half the steps..
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
I think your reading the craftmap wrong. A Bandage is simple: Cloth + Sterilization. Those are the ingredients.
The sub-ingredients are an ease of use thing to tell you which ingredients can be used to make each. So there are 6 types of Cloth in the game and 4 types of Sterilizing Agents (one of which you can buy from npc vendors). Now the cloth can only be crafted.
If you try to craft everything on your own, your going to make things difficult on yourself. Instead you should buy some cloth (from players) and sterilizing agents (from players or the vendors). When you view things in the charts they always look more complex.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
LOL hardcore crafting?
It was meant as a bit of a joke. More like the point is, that people say MMO's are too shallow and when an attempt is made to add some depth, oh guess what?? People start to complain. And if you complain about the crafting, maybe the game isn't right for you. You don't see me complaining that there is too much PvP in Darkfall do you?
And guess what ultimately happens. The complainers change the game.
Point is: when will people make up their minds what they want??? And when will people learn to leave game design to the game designers?
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Curious as to what your idea of "Deep crafting " might be then?
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
imo the biggest issue is that currently the game doesnt make fun playing it alone - if you play together with a friend or in a group you already have a maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassive improvement on fun - but harvesting / questing alone is very boring...this is especially the case because combat is just plain boring, clumsy, unresponsive, floaty - all the bad u got it...
its bearable (but no fun) with ranged weapons - but with melee its unplayable...thats what u need to fix - make the combat fun, this has to be the nr 1 target before anything else...
you do understand difference between lying and opinion, right?
it worked fine for me and all of my friends who did crafting in 1.0, except for 2 things which didnt have anything to do with too many components directly, but with other systems put in ffxiv 1.0:
1. it took too many slots in that horrible 1.0 inventory system, where you had 1 item per line
2. it made the discovery system i would say too hard (when you did want to make discovery without npc help), since you quite often didnt know certain component existed and tried to discover final item recipe without it.
it is actually supported by another system - the more you use certain recipe (including component recipes), the better you are at it, and the difference between someone who tries certain recipe rarely and someone who uses it often is quite big, hence the specialization