People standing around every corner, instantly slaying whatever spawns on them.
That was so much fun...
You mean the same fun by running the same STATIC instance dungeon that can be defeated blindfolded in less then 15 minutes???
"camp check"
"lord, hand, magi, exe and friends"
oh, so basically the entire bottom level. hehe
yeh, there were drawbacks, especially when the same people were camping geb every night, carrying people paying them gp. Those were uncommon experiences, but could of been addressed by the devs "IF" they chose to act, but never did.. IMO.. Special drops should of been level requirement and BOP to begin with..
"oh, damnit, who cleared poh 1 hour after server reset when they knew on the forum we'd be here 6 hours later!"
It was what it was, though. Many things we hated and also loved. Sometimes we loved them because we hated them, that carrot that was perpetually out of reach. The haves and have-nots were defined by being "early birds", not simply because everyone paid the monthly fee so everyone was entitled.
I don't have a problem with "contested" content in games today, and I smile with others do, often particularly vocally.
Yes some of the love / hate with older games could of been tweaked and improved upon.. I have no issue that some "named" wandering mob is taken out minutes before I find him.. OH WELL, I guess I"ll just have to wait till he respawns.. That being said, it's a shame that games today resort to making everyone an instant winner..
People standing around every corner, instantly slaying whatever spawns on them.
That was so much fun...
Are you talking about static camping like in EQ? As the poster above said, it allowed for socialising, it also allowed for classes like CC and Pulling to exist.
Almost all recent MMO have no puller, nor a CC class, since you charge every mob, which removes a large part of the strategy involved in MMO combat.
It's a bit like hunting in real life, people used to hunt with traps, that required patience, a strategy, knowledge of animal behavior. Now hunters hunt with dogs and simply charge animals since they have rifles and easily overpower animals, there's no strategy in that, it's just mindless zerg.
How recent MMO do combat, simply charging mobs, is quite stupid, mobs are all rushed and overpowered, there's very little risk and mobs are so spread out that there's almost no danger, nor is there personal responsability nor defining classes, since there's no distinction between puller and CC etc. Everyone basically becomes a DPS class.
.
Another thing that is gone in recent MMO, is the strategy of breaking open a camp. Just like animals break open and split apart groups of prey, so did you have to break open a camp in EQ. It's another strategy element that is gone in current MMO, because you simply rush spread out mobs, you don't need a puller or CC breaking open camps, it's just zerging for everyone.
.
It's weird that some classes in current MMO are still called hunter or rogue etc, when they're simply all berzerker type rush classes with spam attacks. They're all classes that charge mobs and do DPS. They have all lost their defining class characteristics in new MMO.
Will you EQ fans be happy if we pulled together a random world generator made the whole world random and spawned a billion mobs on there which you can't kill without haaving 4+ more other people. Then we will make you camp the same spots with everyone else so you have to spend 90% of your time waiting so you can socialise. Cause the only way to socialise is to have ancient grindy mechanics from EQ.
Any EQ drawback is addressed by the EQ fanboys by saying that it allowed for immersion and socialising.
Then they will throw in some real world life reference to try to paint that it's realistic (e.g. the "strategy of breaking a camp/hunting a pray" above).
The EQ classes were so unique. What was it, all melee classes have only autoattacks only?
Originally posted by Dampiel_sz
Originally posted by sludgebeard
I remember when WoW came out and made instances dungeons the standard.
I remember that instances had been done YEARS before wow was even on the drawing board.
You remember wrong. When WoW was on the drawing board, instances were not around in MMOs. There was the loot drama queen stuff from EQ. WoW came out in 2004. Development was what? 4-5 years? Pretty sure that there were no instances around 1999.
@OP., I remember when WoW came out and made instances the go to thing for dungeons. People were like "ooh so we don't have to waste our entire life waiting to camp spawns, we don't have to do mindless grinding of mobs like brainless robots, so we can just have fun>????". Then what happened? WoW wiped the floor with every single MMO at the time by achieving a population which was higher than every single MMO at the time combined! When a game goes from 0% market share to 55-60% market share you know something was WRONG with the genre.
WoW did something which EQ never did. It focused on FUN and not on grinding/loot drama and endless waiting. Why did you guys spend so much "socialising"? Because you were forced by the game because you were bored out of your mind waiting.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I remember when WoW came out and made instances dungeons the standard. At first I hated it, but then i actually made it to Deadmknes and m entire world changed.
i thought "hey maybe instances aren't so bad, I get a lot more varied content, no lag. Why did I hate this so much?!"
And then I played AOC and every zone and area was instanced and I thought "o god this can only get worse..."
Hell even the servers are instanced now adays?!
well there is something worse coming, instanced maps alongside megaservers ...
It used to be a bannable offence to go in the same dungeon somebody else was at in the open world and other games where it wasn't people were camping the boss and you couldn't get the quest done.
Will you EQ fans be happy if we pulled together a random world generator made the whole world random and spawned a billion mobs on there which you can't kill without haaving 4+ more other people. Then we will make you camp the same spots with everyone else so you have to spend 90% of your time waiting so you can socialise. Cause the only way to socialise is to have ancient grindy mechanics from EQ. WOW, talk about resorting to extremes to justify a position or example.. Almost all of EQ drawbacks that "you" don't like could of been addressed and tweaked to accommodate you, but instead you want to throw out the baby with the bath water..
Any EQ drawback is addressed by the EQ fanboys by saying that it allowed for immersion and socialising.
Then they will throw in some real world life reference to try to paint that it's realistic (e.g. the "strategy of breaking a camp/hunting a pray" above). NO.. some of us just enjoy ROLE playing, meaning you play a class defining role in a group activity.. Peyton Manning plays the Quarterback, and has special skills to do so, you won't see him playing defensive back anytime soon.. Most group sports have roles.. I see no reason why some games (not all) shouldn't strive to promote as well..
The EQ classes were so unique. What was it, all melee classes have only autoattacks only? Really.. you conveniently forgot about block, recip, disarm, dodge, bash, parry.. Maybe you never played one, so you are only going from inaccurate word of mouth.. And positioning the mob was a game changer as well..
Originally posted by Dampiel_sz
Originally posted by sludgebeard
I remember when WoW came out and made instances dungeons the standard.
I remember that instances had been done YEARS before wow was even on the drawing board.
You remember wrong. When WoW was on the drawing board, instances were not around in MMOs. There was the loot drama queen stuff from EQ. WoW came out in 2004. Development was what? 4-5 years? Pretty sure that there were no instances around 1999. Not accurate again.. May I suggest you look up the EQ expansion "Lost Dungeons of Norrath".. That expansion that focused on instancing came out in 2003, a full year before WoW launched.. FYI..
@OP., I remember when WoW came out and made instances the go to thing for dungeons. People were like "ooh so we don't have to waste our entire life waiting to camp spawns, we don't have to do mindless grinding of mobs like brainless robots, so we can just have fun>????". Then what happened? WoW wiped the floor with every single MMO at the time by achieving a population which was higher than every single MMO at the time combined! When a game goes from 0% market share to 55-60% market share you know something was WRONG with the genre.
WoW did something which EQ never did. It focused on FUN and not on grinding/loot drama and endless waiting. Why did you guys spend so much "socialising"? Because you were forced by the game because you were bored out of your mind waiting.
Seriously your information is very inaccurate.. You might want to review history, and edit your post.. I'm just trying to help before someone flames on you.. Happy Holidays
As much as people hate instancing it was an answer to spawn camping. What we need now is an answer to the dead game world caused by all the instancing.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
As much as people hate instancing it was an answer to spawn camping. What we need now is an answer to the dead game world caused by all the instancing.
Simple solution, get rid of the world. It is often only used as a lobby anyway. Most gameplay is in small groups anyway.
As much as people hate instancing it was an answer to spawn camping. What we need now is an answer to the dead game world caused by all the instancing.
Simple solution, get rid of the world. It is often only used as a lobby anyway. Most gameplay is in small groups anyway.
I feel sorry for you Nari, really I do.. You missed out on some great game play that could NEVER be duplicated in today's instanced lobby games.. I can NOT begin to count how many times multiple groups were in close proximity of each other hunting down various mobs, and still 'finding' the time to aid and assist each other with buffs, or favors.. We might of been two separate 6 man groups, but if the shit hit the fan, we quickly operated as 1 twelve man group.. This happen MUCH MORE often than some esport fighting over camp spawn BS..
However, I will agree there were times that "epic quest" targets were often fought over, and agreed that BS should of never been allowed to be as disruptive as it become.. But you don't toss out the baby with the bath water.. There are only two reasons why multiple groups would ever fight over one camp..
1) Named static target (epic mob, such as the corrupt sea horse) wanting his drop.. This isn't so much camping a mob, as it is camping a "location".. Epic mobs should of been placed on a random spawn cycle.. Sure you and others want the same corrupt sea horse, but now who knows where he'll show up.. Either work together with an agreement or just take your chances..
2) Supply and Demand.. The only other reason why people fought over camps because there wasn't enough camps to go around to satisfy everyone.. Three groups on the north wall of KC, here comes a 4th that tries to squeeze their way in.. But what choice do they have? Only two Orc camps in the area? If there are enough general trash camps spread out across a region, I doubt you would find camp fighting.. If fact this only gives ^1 some help, cause now you placed more random spawn locations for a named mob to spawn.. Not necessarily an epic mob, but other named mobs like the Orc Trainer and his SBS..
In any case, this type of open world game play is exciting and unknowing, and promotes more social interaction.. Instancing does not.. Can I track roaming mobs in an instance? NO, but why should I, that mob is going nowhere..LOL Tracking was a role defining ability in EQ only by Rangers and Druids and it was great.. I miss roaming wandering mobs in the open world.. Who is the last game that designs this anymore? WoW did on a limited bases until Lich King, where it doesn't excist anymore.. I have no clue if they brought back that feature.. I liked it when people would yell out in the zone, "Anyone seen the named griffon?"...and either you get "NO".. or you might get a response, such as "Yeah, he's over by the NW wall, I'll join in if we can get a group together".. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don't.. That is part of the fun, and a way to meet new friends..
As much as people hate instancing it was an answer to spawn camping. What we need now is an answer to the dead game world caused by all the instancing.
Simple solution, get rid of the world. It is often only used as a lobby anyway. Most gameplay is in small groups anyway.
I feel sorry for you Nari, really I do.. You missed out on some great game play that could NEVER be duplicated in today's instanced lobby games..
In any case, this type of open world game play is exciting and unknowing, and promotes more social interaction.. Instancing does not..
Don't be. I played UO & EQ .. very bad games compared to today's instanced games. Fun is subjective. Don't impose your preference on me.
And right, instancing does not promote social interactions ... which is great .. i don't play games to make friends. I have more than enough of those in rl.
I remember when WoW came out and made instances dungeons the standard.
I remember that instances had been done YEARS before wow was even on the drawing board.
You remember wrong. When WoW was on the drawing board, instances were not around in MMOs. There was the loot drama queen stuff from EQ. WoW came out in 2004. Development was what? 4-5 years? Pretty sure that there were no instances around 1999. Not accurate again.. May I suggest you look up the EQ expansion "Lost Dungeons of Norrath".. That expansion that focused on instancing came out in 2003, a full year before WoW launched.. FYI..
May I suggest you reread what I wrote. Instances came out in EQ in 2003. WoW was definitely on the drawing board in 2003. I was replying to the quote post above saying that instances had been done YEARS before wow was even on the drawing board which is clearly not true.
The rest of your points, I don't see what more I can say other than what I have already mentioned in my post.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
As much as people hate instancing it was an answer to spawn camping. What we need now is an answer to the dead game world caused by all the instancing.
Simple solution, get rid of the world. It is often only used as a lobby anyway. Most gameplay is in small groups anyway.
I feel sorry for you Nari, really I do.. You missed out on some great game play that could NEVER be duplicated in today's instanced lobby games..
In any case, this type of open world game play is exciting and unknowing, and promotes more social interaction.. Instancing does not..
Don't be. I played UO & EQ .. very bad games compared to today's instanced games. Fun is subjective. Don't impose your preference on me.
And right, instancing does not promote social interactions ... which is great .. i don't play games to make friends. I have more than enough of those in rl.
That is exactly what you are trying to do.. YOU call them bad games in YOUR eyes.. You have a DOUBLE STANDARD, and I'm sure the moment a game would come out to satisfy my needs, you wouldn't just walk away, but would attack it because it's not F2P lobby game for you.. Happy Holidays
I remember when WoW came out and made instances dungeons the standard.
I remember that instances had been done YEARS before wow was even on the drawing board.
You remember wrong. When WoW was on the drawing board, instances were not around in MMOs. There was the loot drama queen stuff from EQ. WoW came out in 2004. Development was what? 4-5 years? Pretty sure that there were no instances around 1999. Not accurate again.. May I suggest you look up the EQ expansion "Lost Dungeons of Norrath".. That expansion that focused on instancing came out in 2003, a full year before WoW launched.. FYI..
May I suggest you reread what I wrote. Instances came out in EQ in 2003. WoW was definitely on the drawing board in 2003. I was replying to the quote post above saying that instances had been done YEARS before wow was even on the drawing board which is clearly not true.
The rest of your points, I don't see what more I can say other than what I have already mentioned in my post.
BRO.. that section in red is YOUR post.. It's very clear what you said in print.. Have a great day and Happy New Years
People are scared of real competition, of having to strategize over something other then predictable and repeatable AI. In other words having to out smart and out play another REAL person. That's the real reason, people just find other excuses as to why instancing is bad.
This is the reason why everything is instanced today.
People are scared of real competition, of having to strategize over something other then predictable and repeatable AI. In other words having to out smart and out play another REAL person. That's the real reason, people just find other excuses as to why instancing is bad.
This is the reason why everything is instanced today.
uh? There is no real competition in instanced pvp games?
I think there should be both. Instanced dungeons for a story driven experience and open-world dungeons for increased monster loot and monster experience.
There are times I wish I had a huge dungeon to jump in from the open-world where tons of people are around. It's really really easy to find groups for good ole fashion monster slaying in those regards. That's why people bring up the dreaded PUG term all the time. Open World dungeons large enough to include 10-15 levels of monster difficulty and mini-bosses here and there (huge bosses at the deepest part) is a very easy way for players to make friends. The only time I've made good friends that stayed with me throughout the leveling process in current MMOs is if I'm grinding a mob spawn... which is rare because games are so quest driven nowadays. This is simply because I do not need help to do anything else and may not necessarily care about running instanced dungeons so much yet.
There are times I wish I had a huge dungeon to jump in from the open-world where tons of people are around. It's really really easy to find groups for good ole fashion monster slaying in those regards. That's why people bring up the dreaded PUG term all the time. Open World dungeons large enough to include 10-15 levels of monster difficulty and mini-bosses here and there (huge bosses at the deepest part) is a very easy way for players to make friends. The only time I've made good friends that stayed with me throughout the leveling process in current MMOs is if I'm grinding a mob spawn... which is rare because games are so quest driven nowadays. This is simply because I do not need help to do anything else and may not necessarily care about running instanced dungeons so much yet.
Have you ever camped in EQ? Having tons of people around is no fun for me, particularly when i need to take a number and wait.
Either you have to make the server population very small (which defeats the purpose of a shared world anyway), or you have to wait .. .don't tell me waiting for the dragon to spawn doing camp check every 10 min is immersive.
Hence, instance is the best solution because it always scale to the right number of people ... i.e. ... a small group fighting the dragon.
There are times I wish I had a huge dungeon to jump in from the open-world where tons of people are around. It's really really easy to find groups for good ole fashion monster slaying in those regards. That's why people bring up the dreaded PUG term all the time. Open World dungeons large enough to include 10-15 levels of monster difficulty and mini-bosses here and there (huge bosses at the deepest part) is a very easy way for players to make friends. The only time I've made good friends that stayed with me throughout the leveling process in current MMOs is if I'm grinding a mob spawn... which is rare because games are so quest driven nowadays. This is simply because I do not need help to do anything else and may not necessarily care about running instanced dungeons so much yet.
Have you ever camped in EQ? Having tons of people around is no fun for me, particularly when i need to take a number and wait.
Either you have to make the server population very small (which defeats the purpose of a shared world anyway), or you have to wait .. .don't tell me waiting for the dragon to spawn doing camp check every 10 min is immersive.
Hence, instance is the best solution because it always scale to the right number of people ... i.e. ... a small group fighting the dragon.
That was because EQ was a huge success and had 7k people per server, in such a small game world with relatively few dungeons.
Image if EQ opened up with 30 more dungeons than the original had (ie: march 16th 1999, Kunark & Velious was part of the game?), and there was game mechanics that allowed for random areas in dungeons for a mobs to spawn, with appropriate AI..? All instancing does, is allow for the developer to cheapen their game, instead of head-on development. There are many ways to mitigate against the fears you've presented.
Remember, EQ is 16 years old and dungeons were very big compared to today's meager mmorpgs, even getting down into one required a good group... so once you got there, staying was important. It was maximizing your time... "camping".
Additionally, just because you don't/didn't have the backbone for it doesn't make EQ's model a bad game, it just means you felt entitled to have... without paying your dues. Because even if you killed said mob, the chances of him dropping a rare, was.... RARE. Plus you were with others, for a common purpose in hopes of a rare.
Problem is, you are sore & felt threatened in EQ because it offered many challenges you couldn't take. That in fact.. EQ's game world was contentious.. and you have openly admitted you do not like competition, and that you play for entertainment.
It is no wonder you play free games only. You have nothing to loose.
People standing around every corner, instantly slaying whatever spawns on them.
That was so much fun...
Are you talking about static camping like in EQ? As the poster above said, it allowed for socialising, it also allowed for classes like CC and Pulling to exist.
Almost all recent MMO have no puller, nor a CC class, since you charge every mob, which removes a large part of the strategy involved in MMO combat.
It's a bit like hunting in real life, people used to hunt with traps, that required patience, a strategy, knowledge of animal behavior. Now hunters hunt with dogs and simply charge animals since they have rifles and easily overpower animals, there's no strategy in that, it's just mindless zerg.
Humans have been hunting with dogs for 20,000 years.
The original Guild Wars was at heart an elaborate collection of chat rooms with all instancing for adventuring. It worked really well for its time and gave people a mmorpg alternative to subscriptions.
Pirates of the Burning Sea on the other hand was a chat room spread over a giant map with all instanced combat that unfortunately fell flat in part because griefiers could game the system with all kinds of mischief. Then again, it is hard to see how you could implement naval MMOs without relying on instances. I really wanted that game to be great as it broke from the usual fantasy/sci-fi setting.
Additionally, just because you don't/didn't have the backbone for it doesn't make EQ's model a bad game, it just means you felt entitled to have... without paying your dues. Because even if you killed said mob, the chances of him dropping a rare, was.... RARE. Plus you were with others, for a common purpose in hopes of a rare.
Good and bad is subjective. EQ is a very bad game to me.
"Paying your dues" .. in using an entertainment product? Lol .. no .. i don't pay dues to play a game. And yes, of course I feel entitled to have fun .. when I use an entertainment product. Otherwise, what is the point?
Don't tell me camping hours in a video game to get a RNG to come out the right way is an "achievement". Real achievement is reserved for real world stuff, at least for me.
Comments
Yes some of the love / hate with older games could of been tweaked and improved upon.. I have no issue that some "named" wandering mob is taken out minutes before I find him.. OH WELL, I guess I"ll just have to wait till he respawns.. That being said, it's a shame that games today resort to making everyone an instant winner..
Will you EQ fans be happy if we pulled together a random world generator made the whole world random and spawned a billion mobs on there which you can't kill without haaving 4+ more other people. Then we will make you camp the same spots with everyone else so you have to spend 90% of your time waiting so you can socialise. Cause the only way to socialise is to have ancient grindy mechanics from EQ.
Any EQ drawback is addressed by the EQ fanboys by saying that it allowed for immersion and socialising.
Then they will throw in some real world life reference to try to paint that it's realistic (e.g. the "strategy of breaking a camp/hunting a pray" above).
The EQ classes were so unique. What was it, all melee classes have only autoattacks only?
You remember wrong. When WoW was on the drawing board, instances were not around in MMOs. There was the loot drama queen stuff from EQ. WoW came out in 2004. Development was what? 4-5 years? Pretty sure that there were no instances around 1999.
@OP., I remember when WoW came out and made instances the go to thing for dungeons. People were like "ooh so we don't have to waste our entire life waiting to camp spawns, we don't have to do mindless grinding of mobs like brainless robots, so we can just have fun>????". Then what happened? WoW wiped the floor with every single MMO at the time by achieving a population which was higher than every single MMO at the time combined! When a game goes from 0% market share to 55-60% market share you know something was WRONG with the genre.
WoW did something which EQ never did. It focused on FUN and not on grinding/loot drama and endless waiting. Why did you guys spend so much "socialising"? Because you were forced by the game because you were bored out of your mind waiting.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
well there is something worse coming, instanced maps alongside megaservers ...
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Seriously your information is very inaccurate.. You might want to review history, and edit your post.. I'm just trying to help before someone flames on you.. Happy Holidays
As much as people hate instancing it was an answer to spawn camping. What we need now is an answer to the dead game world caused by all the instancing.
Simple solution, get rid of the world. It is often only used as a lobby anyway. Most gameplay is in small groups anyway.
I feel sorry for you Nari, really I do.. You missed out on some great game play that could NEVER be duplicated in today's instanced lobby games.. I can NOT begin to count how many times multiple groups were in close proximity of each other hunting down various mobs, and still 'finding' the time to aid and assist each other with buffs, or favors.. We might of been two separate 6 man groups, but if the shit hit the fan, we quickly operated as 1 twelve man group.. This happen MUCH MORE often than some esport fighting over camp spawn BS..
However, I will agree there were times that "epic quest" targets were often fought over, and agreed that BS should of never been allowed to be as disruptive as it become.. But you don't toss out the baby with the bath water.. There are only two reasons why multiple groups would ever fight over one camp..
1) Named static target (epic mob, such as the corrupt sea horse) wanting his drop.. This isn't so much camping a mob, as it is camping a "location".. Epic mobs should of been placed on a random spawn cycle.. Sure you and others want the same corrupt sea horse, but now who knows where he'll show up.. Either work together with an agreement or just take your chances..
2) Supply and Demand.. The only other reason why people fought over camps because there wasn't enough camps to go around to satisfy everyone.. Three groups on the north wall of KC, here comes a 4th that tries to squeeze their way in.. But what choice do they have? Only two Orc camps in the area? If there are enough general trash camps spread out across a region, I doubt you would find camp fighting.. If fact this only gives ^1 some help, cause now you placed more random spawn locations for a named mob to spawn.. Not necessarily an epic mob, but other named mobs like the Orc Trainer and his SBS..
In any case, this type of open world game play is exciting and unknowing, and promotes more social interaction.. Instancing does not.. Can I track roaming mobs in an instance? NO, but why should I, that mob is going nowhere..LOL Tracking was a role defining ability in EQ only by Rangers and Druids and it was great.. I miss roaming wandering mobs in the open world.. Who is the last game that designs this anymore? WoW did on a limited bases until Lich King, where it doesn't excist anymore.. I have no clue if they brought back that feature.. I liked it when people would yell out in the zone, "Anyone seen the named griffon?"...and either you get "NO".. or you might get a response, such as "Yeah, he's over by the NW wall, I'll join in if we can get a group together".. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don't.. That is part of the fun, and a way to meet new friends..
Don't be. I played UO & EQ .. very bad games compared to today's instanced games. Fun is subjective. Don't impose your preference on me.
And right, instancing does not promote social interactions ... which is great .. i don't play games to make friends. I have more than enough of those in rl.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
That is exactly what you are trying to do.. YOU call them bad games in YOUR eyes.. You have a DOUBLE STANDARD, and I'm sure the moment a game would come out to satisfy my needs, you wouldn't just walk away, but would attack it because it's not F2P lobby game for you.. Happy Holidays
BRO.. that section in red is YOUR post.. It's very clear what you said in print.. Have a great day and Happy New Years
This is the reason why everything is instanced today.
uh? There is no real competition in instanced pvp games?
Isn't e-sport games like LoL big?
I think there should be both. Instanced dungeons for a story driven experience and open-world dungeons for increased monster loot and monster experience.
There are times I wish I had a huge dungeon to jump in from the open-world where tons of people are around. It's really really easy to find groups for good ole fashion monster slaying in those regards. That's why people bring up the dreaded PUG term all the time. Open World dungeons large enough to include 10-15 levels of monster difficulty and mini-bosses here and there (huge bosses at the deepest part) is a very easy way for players to make friends. The only time I've made good friends that stayed with me throughout the leveling process in current MMOs is if I'm grinding a mob spawn... which is rare because games are so quest driven nowadays. This is simply because I do not need help to do anything else and may not necessarily care about running instanced dungeons so much yet.
Have you ever camped in EQ? Having tons of people around is no fun for me, particularly when i need to take a number and wait.
Either you have to make the server population very small (which defeats the purpose of a shared world anyway), or you have to wait .. .don't tell me waiting for the dragon to spawn doing camp check every 10 min is immersive.
Hence, instance is the best solution because it always scale to the right number of people ... i.e. ... a small group fighting the dragon.
That was because EQ was a huge success and had 7k people per server, in such a small game world with relatively few dungeons.
Image if EQ opened up with 30 more dungeons than the original had (ie: march 16th 1999, Kunark & Velious was part of the game?), and there was game mechanics that allowed for random areas in dungeons for a mobs to spawn, with appropriate AI..? All instancing does, is allow for the developer to cheapen their game, instead of head-on development. There are many ways to mitigate against the fears you've presented.
Remember, EQ is 16 years old and dungeons were very big compared to today's meager mmorpgs, even getting down into one required a good group... so once you got there, staying was important. It was maximizing your time... "camping".
Additionally, just because you don't/didn't have the backbone for it doesn't make EQ's model a bad game, it just means you felt entitled to have... without paying your dues. Because even if you killed said mob, the chances of him dropping a rare, was.... RARE. Plus you were with others, for a common purpose in hopes of a rare.
Problem is, you are sore & felt threatened in EQ because it offered many challenges you couldn't take. That in fact.. EQ's game world was contentious.. and you have openly admitted you do not like competition, and that you play for entertainment.
It is no wonder you play free games only. You have nothing to loose.
Humans have been hunting with dogs for 20,000 years.
I think it depends on implementation.
The original Guild Wars was at heart an elaborate collection of chat rooms with all instancing for adventuring. It worked really well for its time and gave people a mmorpg alternative to subscriptions.
Pirates of the Burning Sea on the other hand was a chat room spread over a giant map with all instanced combat that unfortunately fell flat in part because griefiers could game the system with all kinds of mischief. Then again, it is hard to see how you could implement naval MMOs without relying on instances. I really wanted that game to be great as it broke from the usual fantasy/sci-fi setting.
Good and bad is subjective. EQ is a very bad game to me.
"Paying your dues" .. in using an entertainment product? Lol .. no .. i don't pay dues to play a game. And yes, of course I feel entitled to have fun .. when I use an entertainment product. Otherwise, what is the point?
Don't tell me camping hours in a video game to get a RNG to come out the right way is an "achievement". Real achievement is reserved for real world stuff, at least for me.