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SWTOR, TSW, GW2, FFXIV, ESO, WildStar, ArcheAge, list goes on...
Kopogero
Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
On popular MMO's that I never spent a dime that came out. In fact I have not spend $ on a new MMO now for 4 years and 2 days (Jan 11th, 2011 was my last DCUO, thx to $35 promo for box + 30 days free and end up spending $120-150 on it through years)
None of these MMO's truly appealed to me...SWTOR = WOW clone, just far worse both PvP/PvE in my eyes. TSW, another themepark that I doubt gets any updates with the B2P model. I also recall how they sold only 200,000 units or something, so that was another bad sign. GW2, another themepark clone, just pointless to do any PvP or PvE really..FFXIV, another themepark WOW clone with terrible PvP and mediocre PvE that lacks frequent updates..ESO, another themepark MMO with some zergfest open world PvP that doesn't really have any meaning to do it, not to mention the terrible graphics, animations and tons of bugs that come with any new MMORPG.
WildStar, another themepark clone only worse. I already disliked when I heard WOW going back to 20 man mythic raids, 40 man? No way. It was still untested product and after the few months it was crystal clear it's not even close to WOW. If you copy something at least be better at it in multiple things..Then we got our lovely P2W game called ArcheAge with tons of exploits and what not.
So, of course I'll continue paying for WOW sadly. It's not my fault the industry can't seem to grasp the fact that children are not the only audience to go after out there. Then I see upcoming MMO's like The Repopulation with like $100,000 budget and Richard Garriot P2W MMORPG Shroud of the Avatar started with 1 mil budget. Then I see Star Citizen as another cash grab MMO with shipmart at best, which will be easy to dodge.
Everquest Next and Black Desert are the only 2 AAA MMORPG's right now that are still unknown for me and hopefully stay that way without any issues that will turn me off list rest of these MMORPG's that failed to open my wallet. There are a lot of other non traditional MMORPG's out there that can be a gem and fun to play...But yea this genre is truly in a bad state and it all goes back to management.
To make a MMORPG you need great new ideas, innovation, and experienced team to work on. It is a challenging task and something an indie company should not be attempting to develop. They require large budgets and time to be built. They have to be secured with a support team. MMORPG's are the most advanced type of game anyone can build with big risks, but if done properly Blizzard is example of how popular and prosperous they can be.
When I see all these small teams making these big MMORPG's, I'm thinking...these guys are either not serious or greedy. There is a reason why Activision merged with Blizzard for a period of time. There is a reason why people have to work together to make something big. There are tons of ideas out there for MMORPG's that can go along WOW or any other MMORPG out there and prosper, but if you don't deliver quality, you won't get anything, at least not from me...
I'll continue to enjoy and support those that delivered for me, those that take games seriously like Blizzard have with WOW and in meantime I'll be playing F2P multiplayer games out there as a filler up or if that's not available there is always Donkey Kong and Mario Kart. I'll certainly not pay $ on something that pushes this genre backward and not forward.
The irony here is how WOW copied from like Everquest, but with popular IP. Blizz was already famous company with far superiour engine it managed to take over the market. Also thx to failed SWG NGE and Ultima Online that was already 5 years old heading in the wrong direction. Anarchy Online was something but it was just that a themepark clone. It's funny how now WOW gets cloned like nothing else before and it works, it's losing some playerbase, not a lot, but some and you can see it's hurting, which can be good and bad news.
Blizzard won't throw the towel on WOW and we've seen that with WOD. We've been just so unfortunate that we had companies thinking they can copy WOW and be successful. Well, they haven't been at least in my case and hopefully that's a lesson so we can finally see true change in how companies approach this genre. At least after a decade of WOW clones they learned the hard way that if you copying something at least copy it properly like WOW did it...
Comments
Well, now, you haven't been paying attention, have you?
http://www.thesecretworld.com/updates
How can you honestly critique them if you didnt spend money on them or play them? Some of those you have to spend money on to play.
Just regurgitating the forum mantra with these comments.
Everything is a "WoW clone" if it uses a mouse to play I guess.
While there have been a long list of disappointing games to come out the past decade theyre not all WoW clones and they dont all suck and they arent all a waste of money.
The sooner people realize there will never ever be a very good MMO made ever again the better of they will be. MMOs just cost way too much money for whatever reason to develop, market, produce and release. The player base is also too fickle to gamble on. So no one is ever going ot make enough money to put out a game that will make back any initial investments it might get.
Even with the so call crowd funded and kickstarter campaigns those are failing to deliver left and right. When the biggest "success' ever has raised about 5 times what they could ever dream they could raise and after 2 years hasnt developed a thing shows just what the MMO genre is facing.
if i like the game ill spend money on it. If its pay to win ill never pay a cent for it no matter how much i like it.
With that said, if i subscribe for 1 year in a sub based mmo that is $192 (a subscription in NJ its $16 a month thanks to the taxes) then there is nowhere in hell i will pay more than that in 1 year in a F2P cash shop.
I have played all those games mentioned by the OP and GW2 is the one ive paid more money and it wasnt much, for the same reason i stated above. If im going to pay besides the box price(which i dont mind doing if the game is worth it) i will balance that based on a subscription cost.
Also in the case of games like Swtor which IMO dont offer enough to justify the sub, but without a sub my gameplay is horribly gimped, then i just rather not play because i wont give my money away and keep all the limitations in place... im not an idiot.
TBH, it's very clear you not only didn't play most of the games you listed, but you also lack pretty much any knowledge at all about several of them.
Like your comments about FFXIV lacking frequent updates when they have released several updates consisting of new classes, new dungeons, new raids, new quest / storylines, the addition of arena PvP followed by the addition of Frontlines PvP, new gear, and the addition of several new types of content / things to do such as gardening, elite hunts, chocobo raising, crafting tasks, etc.
All in a little over a year and with another big update about to hit as well as the upcoming expansion in a few months.
As for the rest about FFXIV, yeah Arena PvP is pretty bad but Frontlines is actually quite good, especially considering it's a PvE focused game. It's actually better than the PvP in quite a few so-called PvP games. On top of that they are also planning on expanding PvP further in future updates with the addition of new maps and modes.
It's also got some of the best PvE gameplay around. Combat is very smooth and polished, classes are varied and have some great synergy, the storylines are for the most part well done and interesting, and dungeons / bosses have a wide variety of mechanics.
I will say, I agree that FFXIV is in a nutshell a re skinning of WoW with final fantasy but it is false that they don't update frequently. Actually they update very frequently by MMORPG standards. They have a major update about every 3 months with little updates sprinkled in between them and some of those little updates aren't so little.
Also I second the need for more FFXI clones which was basically an EQ clone but less so that XIV being a WoW clone. If that makes any sense.
It's been said before, but said very well here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ56Kia8dTU
I don't like the future portrayed here very much and I hope for more indy options.
OP, I will shed some light on Black Desert, so you can add it to your list:
Tastes are different. I, for example, like TSW and ESO a lot and I don't care if you call them theme parks or something else. My first MMO was EQ but I'd never again spend days and nights camping certain spots on map and grinding mobs. Or organizing huge raids only to wipe, revive, wipe and revive.
I hate P2W and 150 dollar alpha accesses though - this is what sends this genre down the drains imo.
The FFXI relic debacle cultivated the "all or nothing" mindset, where you either play the game for years non-stop or you take a break and get left behind permanently. Not to mention it made the itemization completely stagnant for like eight years when SE tried to get around the fact the items couldn't be replaced for the longest time. If you couldn't switch armor on the fly with the macro system (an unintended feature that ended up saving the itemization) the game would have been a lost cause.
What a dumb invention that was.
So you disregard the game with #1 volume and quality of content in the current MMOsphere (FFXIV) while praising the game that spits on its customers by not releasing any meaningful new content for a full year at a time, even though they have ten times the revenue base than FFXIV.
In essence, you seem to hate value and proper dev support.
That's the funny part almost all of the games he mentioned get far more regular content updates than WOW. His threads always look to me as him fabricating reasons why he simply can't leave WOW. My guess is he doesn't want to leave the power behind and be a noob again.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ah Kopo. Ever the ball of sunshine.
Unlike a box of chocolates I always know what I'll be getting whenever I click one of your threads.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I think you've pretty much nailed it. The huge investment of time and money in the game have turned it into a love-hate relationship. Very unhealthy =/
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I simply want a classic MMO done right, for example:
- classic classes done right, i.e. all classic classes (like Fighter Rogue Wizard Cleric Paladin Necromancer Bard Monk Ranger Druid etc) and they should be very different in gameplay and should "feel right" when you play them
- complex and challenging combat system, lots of hard opponents that need special strategies
- classic fantasy races done right, too (like Human Elf Darkelf Dwarf etc), again they should feel different and "right" in gameplay, for example a Darkelf would need to work on his reputation before getting accepted in most cities, a Dwarf would move more slowly and would be able to carry more than others, etc
- huge seamless game world, tons of great questlines you can freely choose from, low on boring grinds (not NO grinds whatsoever, just it shouldnt be masochistic and the grinds should be intelligent)
- no friggin instances
Paradox paradox paradox paradox paradox...
I quit reading when he mentioned TSW and hinted that he's not looked into it. Went back after I saw this, and am glad that I didn't bother taking the thread seriously.
FFXIV -- a game that I haven't been kind to lately -- has very frequent updates that are absolutely incredible. Patches that have things that other companies include with full expansions. New systems, system updates, etc.
If the poster is actually serious, then he should know that speaking of things that turn out to be 100% wrong only hurts his argument. Though I wouldn't mind Ultima Online clones for a change, myself.
What lesson is there to be learned and for who?
Hope you're having fun.
Guild Wars 2 has managed to deliver for me. I can't get enough of World vs. World.