Way to early to tell about actual launch, many decent things
crafting is to much. Why? SWG's complexity was right on the money, the whole different letter grades actually make it a not enjoyable process.
No present class skills and unlimited skill system. To me this is a turn off. Why not have a skill point cap with the ability to remove skills and regrind others? This worked wonderfully in the past.
No big enough. To make crafting and resources viable it needs more. To get around multiple worlds, it could of been simply different continents on a large world. Many options.
Here is my biggest complaint. Really the funniest part of Galaxies was the ability to make an economy. To make and economy it has to be simple at the core, yet complex at the end. Galaxies mastered that with different quality level of resource spawns. If you sat long enough you made the best ever.
With that you had an economy that evolved around social aspects and crafting at the core:
Resources needed mined, this lead to some players renting or utilizing mines for resources just to be bought by the crafters.
Resources needed farmed in the case of meats, hide, and occasionally bone.
Doctors made buffs needed to be utilized by combat professions using armor and weapons made by crafters that lasted roughly 2-3hrs on average.
Musicians and Dancers then provided more buffs those making money and a large social aspect was created.
All of that flowed in harmony together. Was it perfect? No, but it was damn near close to everyone needed to do their part. Galaxies at its peak was excellent before the CU and NGE. It was my favorite game to date. The CU cut off its legs and then the NGE destroyed it.
I'm not evening going to talk about how awesome Space combat was as a whole other part.
What I'm saying is this formula has yet to be copied. There is no reason not to copy it. What Repopulation did was copy bits and pieces of it, but make it more complex, and in the end so far that has left it with nothing resembling SWG as I thought it would.
Even most the weapon classes have been covered and yet the game is lacking. I hope Repopulation team figures out what they have is way to complex and a grind.
I am currently not digging it much for many reasons that I mentioned, but am holding out hope for a later release while spending a few hours a week on this game between matches in Hex atm.
The Repopulation is supposed to be a game where players really cannot do everything solo. What they do will be dependent on something someone else is doing? And the idea behind the crafting system is that you really shouldn't be trying to do everything from start to finish but rather take something someone else started and complete it. The concept sounds nice, but who's going to want to take up crafting to crank out unfinished base components? That sounds boring. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to take their "Main" and level it up for the sole purpose of making "parts". Unless it's a system that is going to encourage Alt accounts. We called them "Mules" in Anarchy Online.
But you can do everything. You have unlimited skills, I see that as a problem.
Secondly, lets be real here. People will have multiple accounts to be self sufficient. This is a fact, not some illusion. If people are holding onto this illusion of people having to rely on each other that is what happens. A group of friends 4-5 will be able to make everything by each having 2-5 accounts, that is about the extent for the majority of the crowd that will be playing this game. The occasional solo player will be able to assist and find a niche part to craft possibly. It happened in SWG all the time.
I mentioned everything working in harmony. A thriving economy needs to happen because it is allowed to happen. Complexity and additional steps actually are counter productive.
First we are talking a niche genre already compared to the rest of the MMO world. SWG had around 300k at the peak. Eve is a different type of player so I will not add their numbers to the type looking for this kind of game.
That is our cap from around 2004-2005. Add in another 200k for new people looking for that number. Now take away 50% because The Repopilation doesn't even ring a bell or they care to play this type of game anymore, so we are left with 250k roughly max sub short of a freak WOW moment for max subs.
You want to make this as complexity by making an item need 4-5 different professions to make is just a bad idea. Streamline and combine. Make it simple. Make the quality based on resource quality and very slightly on the level of the crafter( i.e. the 12 point Armorsmith for example) Not on complex systems.
I'm not going to get into much more than that. The current system is to complex in the way it is done. Adding layers on layers is not complex. It is not viable for the majority of players.
Like I mentioned before you have players just doing Combat. That is all they want to do, but they have to be able to provide for the crafting machine in order to make new items. (Do items degrade in this game anyways? Because if they don't that is already an issue.)
I wasn't necessarily arguing with you. In fact on some counts, I agree with you. When I said "Supposed to be, I was referring to the ideal. I know how reality differs. Players have ALWAYS taken up multiple accounts in games where interaction is encouraged in order to bypass dependency on other players. As I said, in Anarchy Online, we had "Mules" This game will not be an exception. I'd like to see if and how this game can be monetized around multiple accounts. Because then there is true incentive for the game to be developed in that way. Not saying this game will be like that (Not saying it wont either) But games that I've played were developed with multiple accounts in mind like EVE, Perpetuum, Anarchy Online and SWG have enough in common with this game for me to consider it. What will be different is how much the Devs believe players should play on one or more accounts.
My personal feeling is that if I need a second account to enjoy the game to it's fullest, something's wrong.
You are actually gimping yourself if you use mules. The only relevent factor in the game right now is the time you can spend on it. There is no skill cap and no diminishing return so why would you need different characters to do different things ?
You are actually gimping yourself if you use mules. The only relevent factor in the game right now is the time you can spend on it. There is no skill cap and no diminishing return so why would you need different characters to do different things ?
Nope, actually I have played it quite a bit and I do not like it. It does not remind me of SWG, it does not bring back any of that nostalgia, and I really just do not like the game for a myriad of reasons none of which however, are based on the fact that some stuff does not work as intended, since the game is in ALPHA! Further more I base my opinions off actually playing and Alpha/Beta testing far more than a few games, 30 some odd if memory serves. Starting back when WoW was in BETA. Getting back to You, who obviously, bases your opinion(s) off...well nothing but wild conjecture.
Look you can try to swing this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is you are wrong, you have no idea what games testing is, and you just want to bitch, and for some reason defend this asinine opinion of yours even in the face of overwhelming fact.
That is fine you live in ignorance, and I will move along.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Way to early to tell about actual launch, many decent things
crafting is to much. Why? SWG's complexity was right on the money, the whole different letter grades actually make it a not enjoyable process.
No present class skills and unlimited skill system. To me this is a turn off. Why not have a skill point cap with the ability to remove skills and regrind others? This worked wonderfully in the past.
No big enough. To make crafting and resources viable it needs more. To get around multiple worlds, it could of been simply different continents on a large world. Many options.
Here is my biggest complaint. Really the funniest part of Galaxies was the ability to make an economy. To make and economy it has to be simple at the core, yet complex at the end. Galaxies mastered that with different quality level of resource spawns. If you sat long enough you made the best ever.
With that you had an economy that evolved around social aspects and crafting at the core:
Resources needed mined, this lead to some players renting or utilizing mines for resources just to be bought by the crafters.
Resources needed farmed in the case of meats, hide, and occasionally bone.
Doctors made buffs needed to be utilized by combat professions using armor and weapons made by crafters that lasted roughly 2-3hrs on average.
Musicians and Dancers then provided more buffs those making money and a large social aspect was created.
All of that flowed in harmony together. Was it perfect? No, but it was damn near close to everyone needed to do their part. Galaxies at its peak was excellent before the CU and NGE. It was my favorite game to date. The CU cut off its legs and then the NGE destroyed it.
I'm not evening going to talk about how awesome Space combat was as a whole other part.
What I'm saying is this formula has yet to be copied. There is no reason not to copy it. What Repopulation did was copy bits and pieces of it, but make it more complex, and in the end so far that has left it with nothing resembling SWG as I thought it would.
Even most the weapon classes have been covered and yet the game is lacking. I hope Repopulation team figures out what they have is way to complex and a grind.
I am currently not digging it much for many reasons that I mentioned, but am holding out hope for a later release while spending a few hours a week on this game between matches in Hex atm.
The Repopulation is supposed to be a game where players really cannot do everything solo. What they do will be dependent on something someone else is doing? And the idea behind the crafting system is that you really shouldn't be trying to do everything from start to finish but rather take something someone else started and complete it. The concept sounds nice, but who's going to want to take up crafting to crank out unfinished base components? That sounds boring. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to take their "Main" and level it up for the sole purpose of making "parts". Unless it's a system that is going to encourage Alt accounts. We called them "Mules" in Anarchy Online.
But you can do everything. You have unlimited skills, I see that as a problem.
Secondly, lets be real here. People will have multiple accounts to be self sufficient. This is a fact, not some illusion. If people are holding onto this illusion of people having to rely on each other that is what happens. A group of friends 4-5 will be able to make everything by each having 2-5 accounts, that is about the extent for the majority of the crowd that will be playing this game. The occasional solo player will be able to assist and find a niche part to craft possibly. It happened in SWG all the time.
I mentioned everything working in harmony. A thriving economy needs to happen because it is allowed to happen. Complexity and additional steps actually are counter productive.
First we are talking a niche genre already compared to the rest of the MMO world. SWG had around 300k at the peak. Eve is a different type of player so I will not add their numbers to the type looking for this kind of game.
That is our cap from around 2004-2005. Add in another 200k for new people looking for that number. Now take away 50% because The Repopilation doesn't even ring a bell or they care to play this type of game anymore, so we are left with 250k roughly max sub short of a freak WOW moment for max subs.
You want to make this as complexity by making an item need 4-5 different professions to make is just a bad idea. Streamline and combine. Make it simple. Make the quality based on resource quality and very slightly on the level of the crafter( i.e. the 12 point Armorsmith for example) Not on complex systems.
I'm not going to get into much more than that. The current system is to complex in the way it is done. Adding layers on layers is not complex. It is not viable for the majority of players.
Like I mentioned before you have players just doing Combat. That is all they want to do, but they have to be able to provide for the crafting machine in order to make new items. (Do items degrade in this game anyways? Because if they don't that is already an issue.)
I wasn't necessarily arguing with you. In fact on some counts, I agree with you. When I said "Supposed to be, I was referring to the ideal. I know how reality differs. Players have ALWAYS taken up multiple accounts in games where interaction is encouraged in order to bypass dependency on other players. As I said, in Anarchy Online, we had "Mules" This game will not be an exception. I'd like to see if and how this game can be monetized around multiple accounts. Because then there is true incentive for the game to be developed in that way. Not saying this game will be like that (Not saying it wont either) But games that I've played were developed with multiple accounts in mind like EVE, Perpetuum, Anarchy Online and SWG have enough in common with this game for me to consider it. What will be different is how much the Devs believe players should play on one or more accounts.
My personal feeling is that if I need a second account to enjoy the game to it's fullest, something's wrong.
You are actually gimping yourself if you use mules. The only relevent factor in the game right now is the time you can spend on it. There is no skill cap and no diminishing return so why would you need different characters to do different things ?
There is diminishing returns. Maybe no in alpha because they want people to test more stuff, but the plan is to implement extreme DR at launch.
Way to early to tell about actual launch, many decent things
crafting is to much. Why? SWG's complexity was right on the money, the whole different letter grades actually make it a not enjoyable process.
No present class skills and unlimited skill system. To me this is a turn off. Why not have a skill point cap with the ability to remove skills and regrind others? This worked wonderfully in the past.
No big enough. To make crafting and resources viable it needs more. To get around multiple worlds, it could of been simply different continents on a large world. Many options.
Here is my biggest complaint. Really the funniest part of Galaxies was the ability to make an economy. To make and economy it has to be simple at the core, yet complex at the end. Galaxies mastered that with different quality level of resource spawns. If you sat long enough you made the best ever.
With that you had an economy that evolved around social aspects and crafting at the core:
Resources needed mined, this lead to some players renting or utilizing mines for resources just to be bought by the crafters.
Resources needed farmed in the case of meats, hide, and occasionally bone.
Doctors made buffs needed to be utilized by combat professions using armor and weapons made by crafters that lasted roughly 2-3hrs on average.
Musicians and Dancers then provided more buffs those making money and a large social aspect was created.
All of that flowed in harmony together. Was it perfect? No, but it was damn near close to everyone needed to do their part. Galaxies at its peak was excellent before the CU and NGE. It was my favorite game to date. The CU cut off its legs and then the NGE destroyed it.
I'm not evening going to talk about how awesome Space combat was as a whole other part.
What I'm saying is this formula has yet to be copied. There is no reason not to copy it. What Repopulation did was copy bits and pieces of it, but make it more complex, and in the end so far that has left it with nothing resembling SWG as I thought it would.
Even most the weapon classes have been covered and yet the game is lacking. I hope Repopulation team figures out what they have is way to complex and a grind.
I am currently not digging it much for many reasons that I mentioned, but am holding out hope for a later release while spending a few hours a week on this game between matches in Hex atm.
The Repopulation is supposed to be a game where players really cannot do everything solo. What they do will be dependent on something someone else is doing? And the idea behind the crafting system is that you really shouldn't be trying to do everything from start to finish but rather take something someone else started and complete it. The concept sounds nice, but who's going to want to take up crafting to crank out unfinished base components? That sounds boring. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to take their "Main" and level it up for the sole purpose of making "parts". Unless it's a system that is going to encourage Alt accounts. We called them "Mules" in Anarchy Online.
But you can do everything. You have unlimited skills, I see that as a problem.
Secondly, lets be real here. People will have multiple accounts to be self sufficient. This is a fact, not some illusion. If people are holding onto this illusion of people having to rely on each other that is what happens. A group of friends 4-5 will be able to make everything by each having 2-5 accounts, that is about the extent for the majority of the crowd that will be playing this game. The occasional solo player will be able to assist and find a niche part to craft possibly. It happened in SWG all the time.
I mentioned everything working in harmony. A thriving economy needs to happen because it is allowed to happen. Complexity and additional steps actually are counter productive.
First we are talking a niche genre already compared to the rest of the MMO world. SWG had around 300k at the peak. Eve is a different type of player so I will not add their numbers to the type looking for this kind of game.
That is our cap from around 2004-2005. Add in another 200k for new people looking for that number. Now take away 50% because The Repopilation doesn't even ring a bell or they care to play this type of game anymore, so we are left with 250k roughly max sub short of a freak WOW moment for max subs.
You want to make this as complexity by making an item need 4-5 different professions to make is just a bad idea. Streamline and combine. Make it simple. Make the quality based on resource quality and very slightly on the level of the crafter( i.e. the 12 point Armorsmith for example) Not on complex systems.
I'm not going to get into much more than that. The current system is to complex in the way it is done. Adding layers on layers is not complex. It is not viable for the majority of players.
Like I mentioned before you have players just doing Combat. That is all they want to do, but they have to be able to provide for the crafting machine in order to make new items. (Do items degrade in this game anyways? Because if they don't that is already an issue.)
I wasn't necessarily arguing with you. In fact on some counts, I agree with you. When I said "Supposed to be, I was referring to the ideal. I know how reality differs. Players have ALWAYS taken up multiple accounts in games where interaction is encouraged in order to bypass dependency on other players. As I said, in Anarchy Online, we had "Mules" This game will not be an exception. I'd like to see if and how this game can be monetized around multiple accounts. Because then there is true incentive for the game to be developed in that way. Not saying this game will be like that (Not saying it wont either) But games that I've played were developed with multiple accounts in mind like EVE, Perpetuum, Anarchy Online and SWG have enough in common with this game for me to consider it. What will be different is how much the Devs believe players should play on one or more accounts.
My personal feeling is that if I need a second account to enjoy the game to it's fullest, something's wrong.
You are actually gimping yourself if you use mules. The only relevent factor in the game right now is the time you can spend on it. There is no skill cap and no diminishing return so why would you need different characters to do different things ?
There is diminishing returns. Maybe no in alpha because they want people to test more stuff, but the plan is to implement extreme DR at launch.
Where you got that from ?
In the FAQ :
''Within a skill tree there is a diminishing return system which ensures that you gain very little after a certain point. There will be no more abilities and only a very tiny passive increase. If we add additional tiers post-launch though you may find yourself qualifying for any new abilities automatically.''
This seem to indicate that there is diminishing return the higher you take a skill but would be independant on how many skills you pick. So if you bring Rifle tree all the way to the top it get's slower and slower but it wouldn't affect your shotgun leveling tree. That's the only mention of diminishing return I found.
There is diminishing returns. Maybe no in alpha because they want people to test more stuff, but the plan is to implement extreme DR at launch.
Where you got that from ?
In the FAQ :
''Within a skill tree there is a diminishing return system which ensures that you gain very little after a certain point. There will be no more abilities and only a very tiny passive increase. If we add additional tiers post-launch though you may find yourself qualifying for any new abilities automatically.''
This seem to indicate that there is diminishing return the higher you take a skill but would be independant on how many skills you pick. So if you bring Rifle tree all the way to the top it get's slower and slower but it wouldn't affect your shotgun leveling tree. That's the only mention of diminishing return I found.
I might have just misunderstood people. Even so, mastering multiple crafts will be a pain due to diminishing returns existing in a single craft. So everyone will be able to craft their own basic stuff: bandages, crap food, etc but only those who have in exorbitant amounts of time will be able to do EVERYTHING due to this. From what I see, at most due to materials and the diminishing return affects, coupled with gear being completely customizable with stats, I don't see people mastering EVERYTHING in this game unlike other games that don't have a skill cap.
Nope, actually I have played it quite a bit and I do not like it. It does not remind me of SWG, it does not bring back any of that nostalgia, and I really just do not like the game for a myriad of reasons none of which however, are based on the fact that some stuff does not work as intended, since the game is in ALPHA! Further more I base my opinions off actually playing and Alpha/Beta testing far more than a few games, 30 some odd if memory serves. Starting back when WoW was in BETA. Getting back to You, who obviously, bases your opinion(s) off...well nothing but wild conjecture.
Look you can try to swing this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is you are wrong, you have no idea what games testing is, and you just want to bitch, and for some reason defend this asinine opinion of yours even in the face of overwhelming fact.
That is fine you live in ignorance, and I will move along.
facts? really? didnt know your opinions were being stated as fact. I will back off slowly now. And i know what testing is and hence my opinion about core of the game like animation and combat which i highly doubt is gonna change at release. Pay attention to the part where i said 'in my opinion'.
Nope, actually I have played it quite a bit and I do not like it. It does not remind me of SWG, it does not bring back any of that nostalgia, and I really just do not like the game for a myriad of reasons none of which however, are based on the fact that some stuff does not work as intended, since the game is in ALPHA! Further more I base my opinions off actually playing and Alpha/Beta testing far more than a few games, 30 some odd if memory serves. Starting back when WoW was in BETA. Getting back to You, who obviously, bases your opinion(s) off...well nothing but wild conjecture.
Look you can try to swing this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is you are wrong, you have no idea what games testing is, and you just want to bitch, and for some reason defend this asinine opinion of yours even in the face of overwhelming fact.
That is fine you live in ignorance, and I will move along.
facts? really? didnt know your opinions were being stated as fact. I will back off slowly now. And i know what testing is and hence my opinion about core of the game like animation and combat which i highly doubt is gonna change at release. Pay attention to the part where i said 'in my opinion'.
I'll actually have to back up Hatefull on this one. Oh, and I'm an expert because testing software is what I do for a living. Your original post is completely ignorant to the software development process and you clearly have no idea what testing is. You might understand the definition of the word, but you clearly don't understand it's purpose or the underlying process.
Nope, actually I have played it quite a bit and I do not like it. It does not remind me of SWG, it does not bring back any of that nostalgia, and I really just do not like the game for a myriad of reasons none of which however, are based on the fact that some stuff does not work as intended, since the game is in ALPHA! Further more I base my opinions off actually playing and Alpha/Beta testing far more than a few games, 30 some odd if memory serves. Starting back when WoW was in BETA. Getting back to You, who obviously, bases your opinion(s) off...well nothing but wild conjecture.
Look you can try to swing this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is you are wrong, you have no idea what games testing is, and you just want to bitch, and for some reason defend this asinine opinion of yours even in the face of overwhelming fact.
That is fine you live in ignorance, and I will move along.
facts? really? didnt know your opinions were being stated as fact. I will back off slowly now. And i know what testing is and hence my opinion about core of the game like animation and combat which i highly doubt is gonna change at release. Pay attention to the part where i said 'in my opinion'.
I'll actually have to back up Hatefull on this one. Oh, and I'm an expert because testing software is what I do for a living. Your original post is completely ignorant to the software development process and you clearly have no idea what testing is. You might understand the definition of the word, but you clearly don't understand it's purpose or the underlying process.
Another one?
I already answered to this 'you are completely ignorant of software development process' nonsense in earlier reply. I don't need to understand the process because my opinion is from prespective of a user. Just like how i don't need to understand the process of film making before criticising the movie. I am not surprised to see all Repop fans piggybacking one another with the same arguments in every post and almost all of you being 'softwares expert'.
Nope, actually I have played it quite a bit and I do not like it. It does not remind me of SWG, it does not bring back any of that nostalgia, and I really just do not like the game for a myriad of reasons none of which however, are based on the fact that some stuff does not work as intended, since the game is in ALPHA! Further more I base my opinions off actually playing and Alpha/Beta testing far more than a few games, 30 some odd if memory serves. Starting back when WoW was in BETA. Getting back to You, who obviously, bases your opinion(s) off...well nothing but wild conjecture.
Look you can try to swing this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is you are wrong, you have no idea what games testing is, and you just want to bitch, and for some reason defend this asinine opinion of yours even in the face of overwhelming fact.
That is fine you live in ignorance, and I will move along.
facts? really? didnt know your opinions were being stated as fact. I will back off slowly now. And i know what testing is and hence my opinion about core of the game like animation and combat which i highly doubt is gonna change at release. Pay attention to the part where i said 'in my opinion'.
I'll actually have to back up Hatefull on this one. Oh, and I'm an expert because testing software is what I do for a living. Your original post is completely ignorant to the software development process and you clearly have no idea what testing is. You might understand the definition of the word, but you clearly don't understand it's purpose or the underlying process.
Another one?
I already answered to this 'you are completely ignorant of software development process' nonsense in earlier reply. I don't need to understand the process because my opinion is from prespective of a user. Just like how i don't need to understand the process of film making before criticising the movie. I am not surprised to see all Repop fans piggybacking one another with the same arguments in every post and almost all of you being 'softwares expert'.
Except that a movie critic does so on the final product, not the pre montage small parts. Most beta in the last 15 years were more like marketing process and final bug squashing, that's why they almost never improve much from beta -> release.
Nope, actually I have played it quite a bit and I do not like it. It does not remind me of SWG, it does not bring back any of that nostalgia, and I really just do not like the game for a myriad of reasons none of which however, are based on the fact that some stuff does not work as intended, since the game is in ALPHA! Further more I base my opinions off actually playing and Alpha/Beta testing far more than a few games, 30 some odd if memory serves. Starting back when WoW was in BETA. Getting back to You, who obviously, bases your opinion(s) off...well nothing but wild conjecture.
Look you can try to swing this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is you are wrong, you have no idea what games testing is, and you just want to bitch, and for some reason defend this asinine opinion of yours even in the face of overwhelming fact.
That is fine you live in ignorance, and I will move along.
facts? really? didnt know your opinions were being stated as fact. I will back off slowly now. And i know what testing is and hence my opinion about core of the game like animation and combat which i highly doubt is gonna change at release. Pay attention to the part where i said 'in my opinion'.
I'll actually have to back up Hatefull on this one. Oh, and I'm an expert because testing software is what I do for a living. Your original post is completely ignorant to the software development process and you clearly have no idea what testing is. You might understand the definition of the word, but you clearly don't understand it's purpose or the underlying process.
Another one?
I already answered to this 'you are completely ignorant of software development process' nonsense in earlier reply. I don't need to understand the process because my opinion is from prespective of a user. Just like how i don't need to understand the process of film making before criticising the movie. I am not surprised to see all Repop fans piggybacking one another with the same arguments in every post and almost all of you being 'softwares expert'.
It has everything to do with understanding. You don't need to understand the process, you need to acknowledge that there is a process there, which you don't. I wouldn't accuse you of being ignorant because you don't understand a process you aren't familiar with. That's a given. It's when you're willfully ignorant with zero context or understanding other than anecdotal experiences that you have had. I mean Jeez! You are continuing to argue your point even though the project creator has acknowledged, right here in your thread, that the things you were speaking about are known issues and they are, and have been, improving throughout the process. I've cooked what I consider to be a lot of french fries in my day, but if you were to tell me I'm burning them I'd probably listen, assuming that's what you do for a living.
Unfortunately, and you're not the only one, people insist that these types of programs are simply money grabs, and they go into them expecting more than what they are. In reality the games we see in alpha and beta these days are, conservatively, 10 times better than games we were seeing 5, 6, 7 years ago, at this stage. It's the unfortunate sense of entitlement that we see with gamers these days who believe that 1) they know everything and, 2) they are all owed something for buying a game. Moreover, this has only been exacerbated by Early Access programs. In my opinion, we skipped the important part of educating the customer with these types of programs. So they see them as finished games over games that are a work in progress.
I have no doubts that there are plenty of software experts on these forums. It's not really an uncommon job, is it? What's evident based on your original post, though, is that you are not one. I've also done software development and, in the gaming industry specifically, I've done some level design and worked in the business development department as well, so I have a pretty clear understanding of a wide range of software, yes. Oh, and I'm currently working on a mobile game with my kids for kicks and, hopefully, to allow them to get a head start in life and, also, be able to go onto forums and claim to be software experts.
It has everything to do with understanding. You don't need to understand the process, you need to acknowledge that there is a process there, which you don't. I wouldn't accuse you of being ignorant because you don't understand a process you aren't familiar with. That's a given. It's when you're willfully ignorant with zero context or understanding other than anecdotal experiences that you have had. I mean Jeez! You are continuing to argue your point even though the project creator has acknowledged, right here in your thread, that the things you were speaking about are known issues and they are, and have been, improving throughout the process. I've cooked what I consider to be a lot of french fries in my day, but if you were to tell me I'm burning them I'd probably listen, assuming that's what you do for a living.
Unfortunately, and you're not the only one, people insist that these types of programs are simply money grabs, and they go into them expecting more than what they are. In reality the games we see in alpha and beta these days are, conservatively, 10 times better than games we were seeing 5, 6, 7 years ago, at this stage. It's the unfortunate sense of entitlement that we see with gamers these days who believe that 1) they know everything and, 2) they are all owed something for buying a game. Moreover, this has only been exacerbated by Early Access programs. In my opinion, we skipped the important part of educating the customer with these types of programs. So they see them as finished games over games that are a work in progress.
I have no doubts that there are plenty of software experts on these forums. It's not really an uncommon job, is it? What's evident based on your original post, though, is that you are not one. I've also done software development and, in the gaming industry specifically, I've done some level design and worked in the business development department as well, so I have a pretty clear understanding of a wide range of software, yes. Oh, and I'm currently working on a mobile game with my kids for kicks and, hopefully, to allow them to get a head start in life and, also, be able to go onto forums and claim to be software experts.
No i am sorry but an end user the 'average joe' does not need to understand the process. Once your game is being sold for money and open for public to play then it is open for criticism regardless of whether it is alpha, beta or released version.
Repopulation isn't free of criticism and it shouldn't be. Players who are playing the game should be allowed to give their criticism doesn't matter if they understand the 'process' or not. What i see is an attempt to hush people up with silly arguments like 'you don't understand the process'. Well ofcourse majority of us do not..we are consumers not software developers.
(i have not played the game so i have no comment on actual quality of alpha)
It has everything to do with understanding. You don't need to understand the process, you need to acknowledge that there is a process there, which you don't. I wouldn't accuse you of being ignorant because you don't understand a process you aren't familiar with. That's a given. It's when you're willfully ignorant with zero context or understanding other than anecdotal experiences that you have had. I mean Jeez! You are continuing to argue your point even though the project creator has acknowledged, right here in your thread, that the things you were speaking about are known issues and they are, and have been, improving throughout the process. I've cooked what I consider to be a lot of french fries in my day, but if you were to tell me I'm burning them I'd probably listen, assuming that's what you do for a living.
Unfortunately, and you're not the only one, people insist that these types of programs are simply money grabs, and they go into them expecting more than what they are. In reality the games we see in alpha and beta these days are, conservatively, 10 times better than games we were seeing 5, 6, 7 years ago, at this stage. It's the unfortunate sense of entitlement that we see with gamers these days who believe that 1) they know everything and, 2) they are all owed something for buying a game. Moreover, this has only been exacerbated by Early Access programs. In my opinion, we skipped the important part of educating the customer with these types of programs. So they see them as finished games over games that are a work in progress.
I have no doubts that there are plenty of software experts on these forums. It's not really an uncommon job, is it? What's evident based on your original post, though, is that you are not one. I've also done software development and, in the gaming industry specifically, I've done some level design and worked in the business development department as well, so I have a pretty clear understanding of a wide range of software, yes. Oh, and I'm currently working on a mobile game with my kids for kicks and, hopefully, to allow them to get a head start in life and, also, be able to go onto forums and claim to be software experts.
No i am sorry but an end user the 'average joe' does not need to understand the process. Once your game is being sold for money and open for public to play then it is open for criticism regardless of whether it is alpha, beta or released version.
Repopulation isn't free of criticism and it shouldn't be. Players who are playing the game should be allowed to give their criticism doesn't matter if they understand the 'process' or not. What i see is an attempt to hush people up with silly arguments like 'you don't understand the process'. Well ofcourse majority of us do not..we are consumers not software developers.
(i have not played the game so i have no comment on actual quality of alpha)
Totally agree with you. Actually, user criticism is the only thing that matters. Your quality team should emulate your user base and actually advocate for them.
That's not the point I'm making. Quoted from the OP, "we are already seeing its 'just an alpha' excuses." That's my point of contention, not that he's providing criticism. If that's all he was doing, I wouldn't have a problem. There are actually issues with the game and those issues were acknowledged by the project lead directly, in this thread. It's the assertion that this whole, "Alpha" or "Beta" process is some sort of excuse for quality issues. In actuality, customers/users have unparalleled transparency to the development process today, compared to 5 years ago. This is where I say that understanding is required. I'm not even implying that you need to understand the process itself. What I am saying is that you need to at least acknowledge that there is a some sort of process that exists, whether it's them testing it or users testing it. You also need to acknowledge that the process isn't 3-months long. This is where I say that the consumer requires education. In reality, you should be able to put two and two together, but it seems like that rarely happens. Considering WoW took 4 years to develop with a solid year of CLOSED Beta and who knows how much alpha prior to that and SWTOR with at least a 5-year dev cycle, since there were rumors that surfaced since 2006 about it, started closed being in 2009 which was 2 years out from their release date. Why, why, why, do we think that a 1 year beta cycle, or 1 year alpha cycle or 2 year testing cycle is somehow a ruse?
It has everything to do with understanding. You don't need to understand the process, you need to acknowledge that there is a process there, which you don't. I wouldn't accuse you of being ignorant because you don't understand a process you aren't familiar with. That's a given. It's when you're willfully ignorant with zero context or understanding other than anecdotal experiences that you have had. I mean Jeez! You are continuing to argue your point even though the project creator has acknowledged, right here in your thread, that the things you were speaking about are known issues and they are, and have been, improving throughout the process. I've cooked what I consider to be a lot of french fries in my day, but if you were to tell me I'm burning them I'd probably listen, assuming that's what you do for a living.
Unfortunately, and you're not the only one, people insist that these types of programs are simply money grabs, and they go into them expecting more than what they are. In reality the games we see in alpha and beta these days are, conservatively, 10 times better than games we were seeing 5, 6, 7 years ago, at this stage. It's the unfortunate sense of entitlement that we see with gamers these days who believe that 1) they know everything and, 2) they are all owed something for buying a game. Moreover, this has only been exacerbated by Early Access programs. In my opinion, we skipped the important part of educating the customer with these types of programs. So they see them as finished games over games that are a work in progress.
I have no doubts that there are plenty of software experts on these forums. It's not really an uncommon job, is it? What's evident based on your original post, though, is that you are not one. I've also done software development and, in the gaming industry specifically, I've done some level design and worked in the business development department as well, so I have a pretty clear understanding of a wide range of software, yes. Oh, and I'm currently working on a mobile game with my kids for kicks and, hopefully, to allow them to get a head start in life and, also, be able to go onto forums and claim to be software experts.
No i am sorry but an end user the 'average joe' does not need to understand the process. Once your game is being sold for money and open for public to play then it is open for criticism regardless of whether it is alpha, beta or released version.
Repopulation isn't free of criticism and it shouldn't be. Players who are playing the game should be allowed to give their criticism doesn't matter if they understand the 'process' or not. What i see is an attempt to hush people up with silly arguments like 'you don't understand the process'. Well ofcourse majority of us do not..we are consumers not software developers.
(i have not played the game so i have no comment on actual quality of alpha)
Totally agree with you. Actually, user criticism is the only thing that matters. Your quality team should emulate your user base and actually advocate for them.
That's not the point I'm making. Quoted from the OP, "we are already seeing its 'just an alpha' excuses." That's my point of contention, not that he's providing criticism. If that's all he was doing, I wouldn't have a problem. There are actually issues with the game and those issues were acknowledged by the project lead directly, in this thread. It's the assertion that this whole, "Alpha" or "Beta" process is some sort of excuse for quality issues. In actuality, customers/users have unparalleled transparency to the development process today, compared to 5 years ago. This is where I say that understanding is required. I'm not even implying that you need to understand the process itself. What I am saying is that you need to at least acknowledge that there is a some sort of process that exists, whether it's them testing it or users testing it. You also need to acknowledge that the process isn't 3-months long. This is where I say that the consumer requires education. In reality, you should be able to put two and two together, but it seems like that rarely happens. Considering WoW took 4 years to develop with a solid year of CLOSED Beta and who knows how much alpha prior to that and SWTOR with at least a 5-year dev cycle, since there were rumors that surfaced since 2006 about it, started closed being in 2009 which was 2 years out from their release date. Why, why, why, do we think that a 1 year beta cycle, or 1 year alpha cycle or 2 year testing cycle is somehow a ruse?
The game is super empty for a newly released early access alpha. I have never seen an early access alpha release this empty of players. Sometimes there is only around 20 people online. They said there won't be a wipe for over 6-8 months, thats longer then most stick with single mmo's. Most people only play for 2-3 days never to be seen again. This is a very BAD sign. People hardly ever stream the game anymore also and most discussion forums are dead. Sorry this game is going to have huge problems being highly based in a high population of players to support the crafting system.
Right now the game is not worth much or anything, but if you like giving away your money for hope and dreams go right ahead.
Edit. The game already has bots, hacker, marco'ers. The Devs/GMs are pretty strict in that aspect but they are still there even with such a low population. I have a feeling people are just getting so bored / unhappy with the game they turn to cheating cause they don't care if they get banned or whatever.
@Jairus: Population typically ranges between 175-650 players. More on the weekends than weeknights of course. At around 4AM after the reset populations tend to dip low on the late servers, with people playing on the other time zones. Once Silver Membership is open we expect those to increase significantly, but it won't open until after the patch.
As for if it's worth it right now. That is going to vary from person to person. You range from people who are completely sold on the game, to players who completely hate it. Then you have people in between who like the potential but don't like playing an unfinished game. It's significantly more positive than negative, however. I'd suggest players who consider buying read the reviews on Steam or web sites (there are quite a few of them) to help determine if it's worth it to them or not.
Man I feel for you Repop guys having to sift through so much ignorance in a single thread.
I can't believe I've read numerous times in one post, that simply because you PREPURCHASED something (which mind you, doesn't yet exist as a finished product), regardless if its in an alpha test state, that developers should somehow be held to a higher standard even though it said ALPHA on what you purchased and it included warnings not to buy if you don't enjoy testing an unfinished product.
Wow.. doom mongering on indie games still in alpha... you people really have nothing better to do? If you aren't interested in the game, don't buy it, simple right?
Man I feel for you Repop guys having to sift through so much ignorance in a single thread.
I can't believe I've read numerous times in one post, that simply because you PREPURCHASED something (which mind you, doesn't yet exist as a finished product), regardless if its in an alpha test state, that developers should somehow be held to a higher standard even though it said ALPHA on what you purchased and it included warnings not to buy if you don't enjoy testing an unfinished product.
I am giving a pause to this game atm because I have trouble getting good performance in this game. If I turn options down untill i get decent fps, the game has very annoying graphics. The ground especially then makes my eyes hurt
So I probably will check back after a few optimization updates.
Apart from that, the only thing I have issues with is the way pvp is set up. I was hoping originally for pvp solely based on pvp flag like in SWG. Now they have this whole zone where it is forced pvp. I think that it is a mistake with the skill system they put in place. Any specialised non combat toon will be seriously gimped in those areas and made an easy target for griefers, so you will just see a concentration of players with combat specialisations in that area.
I am afraid with such a specific pvp zone, that you will barely get any spontaneous pvp in the faction cities and surroundings.
I know why some think it is needed, because of the player cities in contested zones. But it is not. Nations could have such a pvp flag system too. To be able to declare war on other nations, with their citizens always having the pvp flag turned on towards that other nation.
Now the map is so compartimentalized, it breaks immersion for me. I really think they took a bad thing from themepark MMO's with this. The solution to divide the map based on this instead of nations choice and player choice, is just bad design imo. You don't need forced pvp zones, just players that want to pvp and there are always enough of those. Even more if pvp is not forced.
Comments
You are actually gimping yourself if you use mules. The only relevent factor in the game right now is the time you can spend on it. There is no skill cap and no diminishing return so why would you need different characters to do different things ?
Then that's a good start
Nope, actually I have played it quite a bit and I do not like it. It does not remind me of SWG, it does not bring back any of that nostalgia, and I really just do not like the game for a myriad of reasons none of which however, are based on the fact that some stuff does not work as intended, since the game is in ALPHA! Further more I base my opinions off actually playing and Alpha/Beta testing far more than a few games, 30 some odd if memory serves. Starting back when WoW was in BETA. Getting back to You, who obviously, bases your opinion(s) off...well nothing but wild conjecture.
Look you can try to swing this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is you are wrong, you have no idea what games testing is, and you just want to bitch, and for some reason defend this asinine opinion of yours even in the face of overwhelming fact.
That is fine you live in ignorance, and I will move along.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
There is diminishing returns. Maybe no in alpha because they want people to test more stuff, but the plan is to implement extreme DR at launch.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Where you got that from ?
In the FAQ :
''Within a skill tree there is a diminishing return system which ensures that you gain very little after a certain point. There will be no more abilities and only a very tiny passive increase. If we add additional tiers post-launch though you may find yourself qualifying for any new abilities automatically.''
This seem to indicate that there is diminishing return the higher you take a skill but would be independant on how many skills you pick. So if you bring Rifle tree all the way to the top it get's slower and slower but it wouldn't affect your shotgun leveling tree. That's the only mention of diminishing return I found.
I might have just misunderstood people. Even so, mastering multiple crafts will be a pain due to diminishing returns existing in a single craft. So everyone will be able to craft their own basic stuff: bandages, crap food, etc but only those who have in exorbitant amounts of time will be able to do EVERYTHING due to this. From what I see, at most due to materials and the diminishing return affects, coupled with gear being completely customizable with stats, I don't see people mastering EVERYTHING in this game unlike other games that don't have a skill cap.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Just to note: Diminishing returns are already in game.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
facts? really? didnt know your opinions were being stated as fact. I will back off slowly now. And i know what testing is and hence my opinion about core of the game like animation and combat which i highly doubt is gonna change at release. Pay attention to the part where i said 'in my opinion'.
This game sucks.... and I wasted money on it lol...
The combat is terrible and boring
You do know combat is usually the last thing fully implemented in games right? It also is usually changed a few times in games.
Now if it sucks because of a whole slew of other reasons, I'm with you on that one.
I'll actually have to back up Hatefull on this one. Oh, and I'm an expert because testing software is what I do for a living. Your original post is completely ignorant to the software development process and you clearly have no idea what testing is. You might understand the definition of the word, but you clearly don't understand it's purpose or the underlying process.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Combat wasn't what made some MMO great. My favorite MMO was Anarchy Online.
The MMO with the worst combat / animations ever?................Anarchy Online.
Another one?
I already answered to this 'you are completely ignorant of software development process' nonsense in earlier reply. I don't need to understand the process because my opinion is from prespective of a user. Just like how i don't need to understand the process of film making before criticising the movie. I am not surprised to see all Repop fans piggybacking one another with the same arguments in every post and almost all of you being 'softwares expert'.
Except that a movie critic does so on the final product, not the pre montage small parts. Most beta in the last 15 years were more like marketing process and final bug squashing, that's why they almost never improve much from beta -> release.
It has everything to do with understanding. You don't need to understand the process, you need to acknowledge that there is a process there, which you don't. I wouldn't accuse you of being ignorant because you don't understand a process you aren't familiar with. That's a given. It's when you're willfully ignorant with zero context or understanding other than anecdotal experiences that you have had. I mean Jeez! You are continuing to argue your point even though the project creator has acknowledged, right here in your thread, that the things you were speaking about are known issues and they are, and have been, improving throughout the process. I've cooked what I consider to be a lot of french fries in my day, but if you were to tell me I'm burning them I'd probably listen, assuming that's what you do for a living.
Unfortunately, and you're not the only one, people insist that these types of programs are simply money grabs, and they go into them expecting more than what they are. In reality the games we see in alpha and beta these days are, conservatively, 10 times better than games we were seeing 5, 6, 7 years ago, at this stage. It's the unfortunate sense of entitlement that we see with gamers these days who believe that 1) they know everything and, 2) they are all owed something for buying a game. Moreover, this has only been exacerbated by Early Access programs. In my opinion, we skipped the important part of educating the customer with these types of programs. So they see them as finished games over games that are a work in progress.
I have no doubts that there are plenty of software experts on these forums. It's not really an uncommon job, is it? What's evident based on your original post, though, is that you are not one. I've also done software development and, in the gaming industry specifically, I've done some level design and worked in the business development department as well, so I have a pretty clear understanding of a wide range of software, yes. Oh, and I'm currently working on a mobile game with my kids for kicks and, hopefully, to allow them to get a head start in life and, also, be able to go onto forums and claim to be software experts.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Uhhh... the combat has more depth than 1hr of game play reveals. It needs work, but its better, IMO, than most tab target games.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
No i am sorry but an end user the 'average joe' does not need to understand the process. Once your game is being sold for money and open for public to play then it is open for criticism regardless of whether it is alpha, beta or released version.
Repopulation isn't free of criticism and it shouldn't be. Players who are playing the game should be allowed to give their criticism doesn't matter if they understand the 'process' or not. What i see is an attempt to hush people up with silly arguments like 'you don't understand the process'. Well ofcourse majority of us do not..we are consumers not software developers.
(i have not played the game so i have no comment on actual quality of alpha)
Totally agree with you. Actually, user criticism is the only thing that matters. Your quality team should emulate your user base and actually advocate for them.
That's not the point I'm making. Quoted from the OP, "we are already seeing its 'just an alpha' excuses." That's my point of contention, not that he's providing criticism. If that's all he was doing, I wouldn't have a problem. There are actually issues with the game and those issues were acknowledged by the project lead directly, in this thread. It's the assertion that this whole, "Alpha" or "Beta" process is some sort of excuse for quality issues. In actuality, customers/users have unparalleled transparency to the development process today, compared to 5 years ago. This is where I say that understanding is required. I'm not even implying that you need to understand the process itself. What I am saying is that you need to at least acknowledge that there is a some sort of process that exists, whether it's them testing it or users testing it. You also need to acknowledge that the process isn't 3-months long. This is where I say that the consumer requires education. In reality, you should be able to put two and two together, but it seems like that rarely happens. Considering WoW took 4 years to develop with a solid year of CLOSED Beta and who knows how much alpha prior to that and SWTOR with at least a 5-year dev cycle, since there were rumors that surfaced since 2006 about it, started closed being in 2009 which was 2 years out from their release date. Why, why, why, do we think that a 1 year beta cycle, or 1 year alpha cycle or 2 year testing cycle is somehow a ruse?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Because he wanted an excuse to bash the game.
The game is super empty for a newly released early access alpha. I have never seen an early access alpha release this empty of players. Sometimes there is only around 20 people online. They said there won't be a wipe for over 6-8 months, thats longer then most stick with single mmo's. Most people only play for 2-3 days never to be seen again. This is a very BAD sign. People hardly ever stream the game anymore also and most discussion forums are dead. Sorry this game is going to have huge problems being highly based in a high population of players to support the crafting system.
Right now the game is not worth much or anything, but if you like giving away your money for hope and dreams go right ahead.
Edit. The game already has bots, hacker, marco'ers. The Devs/GMs are pretty strict in that aspect but they are still there even with such a low population. I have a feeling people are just getting so bored / unhappy with the game they turn to cheating cause they don't care if they get banned or whatever.
@Jairus: Population typically ranges between 175-650 players. More on the weekends than weeknights of course. At around 4AM after the reset populations tend to dip low on the late servers, with people playing on the other time zones. Once Silver Membership is open we expect those to increase significantly, but it won't open until after the patch.
As for if it's worth it right now. That is going to vary from person to person. You range from people who are completely sold on the game, to players who completely hate it. Then you have people in between who like the potential but don't like playing an unfinished game. It's significantly more positive than negative, however. I'd suggest players who consider buying read the reviews on Steam or web sites (there are quite a few of them) to help determine if it's worth it to them or not.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
Man I feel for you Repop guys having to sift through so much ignorance in a single thread.
I can't believe I've read numerous times in one post, that simply because you PREPURCHASED something (which mind you, doesn't yet exist as a finished product), regardless if its in an alpha test state, that developers should somehow be held to a higher standard even though it said ALPHA on what you purchased and it included warnings not to buy if you don't enjoy testing an unfinished product.
Thats the epitome of stupidity.
AMEN!
I am giving a pause to this game atm because I have trouble getting good performance in this game. If I turn options down untill i get decent fps, the game has very annoying graphics. The ground especially then makes my eyes hurt
So I probably will check back after a few optimization updates.
Apart from that, the only thing I have issues with is the way pvp is set up. I was hoping originally for pvp solely based on pvp flag like in SWG. Now they have this whole zone where it is forced pvp. I think that it is a mistake with the skill system they put in place. Any specialised non combat toon will be seriously gimped in those areas and made an easy target for griefers, so you will just see a concentration of players with combat specialisations in that area.
I am afraid with such a specific pvp zone, that you will barely get any spontaneous pvp in the faction cities and surroundings.
I know why some think it is needed, because of the player cities in contested zones. But it is not. Nations could have such a pvp flag system too. To be able to declare war on other nations, with their citizens always having the pvp flag turned on towards that other nation.
Now the map is so compartimentalized, it breaks immersion for me. I really think they took a bad thing from themepark MMO's with this. The solution to divide the map based on this instead of nations choice and player choice, is just bad design imo. You don't need forced pvp zones, just players that want to pvp and there are always enough of those. Even more if pvp is not forced.