Originally posted by kjempff I bet many pc players are thrilled having paid for beta testing for consoles. Especially knowing consoles often set the lower barre in hardware, gfx, ui and game design.
Probably. Not me though. I had tons of fun, and I will continue to pay the sub because ESO is a freakin awesome game
Originally posted by Tykam123 Alright, time to be the negative Nancy here and ask the questions no one wants to ask. This model looks simply awful. Its times like this I wonder why they even bother switching. I guess to reel in [mod edit] F2P players. So there is going to be a shop AND DLC packs? Does no one else find that alarming? In a year or two we are gonna be seeing the same thing I saw in LoTRO, a bunch of quest packs and content I am behind with. The only argument to this whole thing I see is "why not sub then?". Does that not defeat the purpose? I am unaffected because I will just sub when I want to play as I do know, but its funny to see people think they are getting a bargain.
GW2 is basicly the same thing, so long as they keep game breaking items out of the cash shop i am compleatly happy with it. atleast they did not (as of yet) pull a swtor with everything locked behind a cash wall.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
When I read they were going a similar route to GW2 i was intrigued. But that's all BS. This model is nothing like GW2 at all. It's more similar to the likes of SWTOR / LotRO.
The more I read, the less this sounds like a carefully considered decision. This sounds like throwing every business model at the wall in the hopes that one of them will produce revenue. B2P, optional subscription, DLCs via the cashshop.. really? How many games how to go down this route before companies start to realize this is a bad idea.
When you start mixing too many differing business models it stops being an incentive, and starts looking like a desperate cash grab. The differing models actually start to work against each other, by removing some of the incentives to put money into the game, or to even try out the game at all. The whole point of B2P / F2P is to remove the barriers to trying out a new game. The idea is that by allowing more people to play your game without restrictions, you both make the game more fun for those that do put money in and also make it more likely that people will put money into your game.
Hopefully I'm wrong about this, but this actually does not seem to bode well for this game.
Originally posted by kjempff I bet many pc players are thrilled having paid for beta testing for consoles. Especially knowing consoles often set the lower barre in hardware, gfx, ui and game design.
I have to say, this is the first time I've felt that PC players got the shaft. If you read between the lines, it is obvious that Microsoft is pushing Zeni in the direction MS wants for consoles. Zeni can either go that way or back off. I suspect a big part of the console delay was due to negotiations around subs on the console release. And Zeni caved. That's their business decision, but as a PC gamer, I'm getting tired of the distortion consoles and the console monoliths have brought to gaming.
Zeni didn't "throw PC players under a bus" and PC players who are "angry at feeling like they paid for an ongoing beta" are not justified in doing so, they are entitled brats imo, geez.
That is surely your opinion, to which you are entitled, however you do not speak for everyone. Stop doing so. Many people do feel used, it looks terrible, and they are justified for feeling so. get off your high horse.
First don't try to bully me into not giving my opinion on a gaming forum, and cut out the personal insults.
Second, that's why I said "imo", but certainly there is a lot more merit in my opinion in this case than in the people crying about having "paid for a beta" , or feeling like Zenimax somehow betrayed them. That's because those responses are purely emotional and based on your preference for having a sub. How does the game suddenly become a beta overnight with a change in business model?
What is outrageous imo, is not the change to a b2p model, which the company is quite entitled to do, and which is actually a great move, but the pitiful response from supposed fans of the game that heap such hate and blame on the devs that work their butts off to give you the chance to play this amazing mmo.
There were no personal insults, yet i do find it amusing that you are the one with the emotional response, pot meet kettle and all that. It didn't become a beta overnight. For many, it has felt that way for many months now. I am quite happy with the coming conversion and i do enjoy the game from time to time, however i'm not going to sit here while you label others "entitled brats" when they have every right to state their opinion on the matter, regardless of how you feel about it. You are painting generalizations with broad strokes. Once again. Stop it.
When I read they were going a similar route to GW2 i was intrigued. But that's all BS. This model is nothing like GW2 at all. It's more similar to the likes of SWTOR / LotRO.
The more I read, the less this sounds like a carefully considered decision. This sounds like throwing every business model at the wall in the hopes that one of them will produce revenue. B2P, optional subscription, DLCs via the cashshop.. really? How many games how to go down this route before companies start to realize this is a bad idea.
When you start mixing too many differing business models it stops being an incentive, and starts looking like a desperate cash grab. The differing models actually start to work against each other, by removing some of the incentives to put money into the game, or to even try out the game at all. The whole point of B2P / F2P is to remove the barriers to trying out a new game. The idea is that by allowing more people to play your game without restrictions, you both make the game more fun for those that do put money in and also make it more likely that people will put money into your game.
Hopefully I'm wrong about this, but this actually does not seem to bode well for this game.
You know the biggest difference? No cash to gold conversion in ESO. Imo it's the saving grace. No one will be spending 300$ to buy crowns to turn them into gold to buy epics. No costumes or mounts bought in the cash shop hits the market. No gold buying.
It is a very good decision. Players paid for a game and they have the right to play it to their heart's content. Paying for the game and then again paying monthly to play is bonkers. This buy to play with optional subscription and cash shop is the best payment solution for all players. I hope WoW goes that way too but I guess it won't happen anytime soon.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by Tykam123 Alright, time to be the negative Nancy here and ask the questions no one wants to ask. This model looks simply awful. Its times like this I wonder why they even bother switching. I guess to reel in you braindead F2P players. So there is going to be a shop AND DLC packs? Does no one else find that alarming? In a year or two we are gonna be seeing the same thing I saw in LoTRO, a bunch of quest packs and content I am behind with. The only argument to this whole thing I see is "why not sub then?". Does that not defeat the purpose? I am unaffected because I will just sub when I want to play as I do know, but its funny to see people think they are getting a bargain.
I prefer the traditional P2P model. Having said that, I don't know where the problem is. I mean, you get all the DLCs with ESO Plus and, as far as I know, all you can buy in the shop is cosmetic items.
The problem is that almost every single game that introduced a cash shop, they all stated at first that all we could buy is cosmetic items.
Lotro is a good example of this.
Then within a year, they stop putting time into developing good quality end game stuff such as raids, as there's more money to be made in making crap that the casual player will buy from the shop.
End result, they make more money, long term players hate what the game has become.
Yes I get it that companies are there to make money, but using that argument, they might as well just written another candy crush for tablets rather than something using the Elder Scrolls title.
I was looking forwards to this game the day it was announced. I expected to be playing for years. I left a few months ago due to them not being able to keep PvP playable for more than 3 weeks out of 6.
The sub was never the problem, the game play was. A free weekend for previous subscribers would be all that was needed for us to see if it was worth re-subbing or not.
Now it really really really does feel like we paid to beta test and worse than that, it feels like instead of them concentrating on fixing all the issues we raised as quickly as possible, a large part of their dev team was working on the B2P/cash shop model while us suckers carried on paying their salaries.
In my opinion they should stop subs right now, this very second, expecting PC players to pay until mid March is just rubbing salt into the wounds.
Well, I don't see an issue here, as long as they are supporting the game the way they did until now. The only thing that worries me is that we might not see a major add-ons (WoW style) and will get the story upgrades in small portions as a DLC's (like in SWTOR).
So it could barely hold on to it's subscribers for 12 months before it had to change the revenue model. The game must be even worse now than when i played it in open beta. Still not worth my money though.
Release Date: April 4, 2014 ~B2P/CashShop Date: March 17, 2015
Is that a new record?
No. The Secret World ran for less than 6 months as box price + required sub + cosmetic cash shop before switching to box price + paid DLC + cosmetic & "convenience" cash shop + optional sub granting store points &c. The outline description of the perks of the ESO optional sub seems slightly more generous than TSW's (where subscribers need to buy DLCs using their store point allowance, albeit at a slight discount).
ESO even if it wasn't able to sustain a sub required model will hopefully at least continue to do well enough, esp. with forthcoming console launch, that content updates won't slow to the crawl rate we saw in TSW.
I was honestly expecting this. The game certainly feels busy and Zenimax has shown continued investment in the game via updates. However, I simply don't think a sub-model is as accepted on consoles as it is PCs. And running PC customers and console customers on different models would simply be awkward. However, as a subscriber, I do fear what will happen when it goes B2P....
SOE made this choice for DC Universe and it worked out well. It continues to get regular beefy updates/DLC today. Funcom went this route for AoC and TSW - and while they continue to get updates - they definitely do not get the same level of development resources that SOE dedicates to DC Universe.
It will be interesting to see what happens. Hope it pays off.
Originally posted by Hariken People need to stop comparing it to GW2. GW2 does not have a sub.period. ESO will be B2P with sub.options. That's completely different. So if they have sub.options content may come sooner than it does with GW2.
Indeed. ESO Unlimited can also be seen as sub with (quite huge) free trial, both of which are miles above GW2´s current state.
To be more specific, at which point between subs and BTP it will end in the long run depends on number of players subbing/DLCing, which depends on development pace which, again depends on number of players etc. Anything can happen, cashShop PTW degeneration simply being the worst possibility.
Originally posted by Tykam123 So there is going to be a shop AND DLC packs?
That's the Guild Wars system. They had a shop and they had, since they were "b2p" players buy expansions.
Though, having said that, EQ2 has their version of sub and also a shop and also charge for expansions (unless this is changed?).
Guild Wars 2 doesn't have DLC packs...unless you don't log in time to get the new living story for free. It also doesn't have any sub-model like ESO is going to have. ESO is closer to The Secret World model than GW2.
EQ2 expansions only cost something if you want it now, the previous expansion content become free when a new expansion release (usually the next year). The only exception is the feature pack with the beastmaster class and mercenary stuff.
. I love the game but hate the fact they are dropping subscriptions to it, and here is the reason why.
The game sells itself on RvR which is massive pvp battles in Cyrodiil. With the dropping of subs this means there will be a cash shop put into the game and every mmo that has any kind of pvp content always ends up as a pay to win game. This means the more money you pump into it the better and tougher your character will become. This is something I dislike greatly and should never be put into a cash store.
I know what the devs have said about the cash shop, but they have lied to me once by saying "The game will not be going free to play and is set up for subs without there being additional paygates"
Now with this there will be paygates in that you will have to buy new content unless you pay a monthly subscription,
On this I am leaving the game and will let my subscription to it end, I hope the game dies in flames.
I actually appreciate this a lot. As parents, my wife and I are on a budget, and that can make multiple subs difficult. We pay a WoW sub for the both of us, cuz we like the game, but more importantly, that's where our friends all are. But we don't always feel like playing WoW, and we like a little variety to keep that game from growing stale. The F2P and B2P options have made that very doable.
We beta tested ESO, and while we enjoyed it, overall we didn't feel so drawn to it as to drop our WoW subs - which we found to be the case with games like TOR, Rift, and EQ2, as well. We've always had an interest in playing them, but didn't think they were worth the sub money. With the alternative payment models, we get to enjoy these games, while having more control over what amounts, and when, we pay money on them, without switching monthly subs all the time.
With this announcement, I am definitely planning on buying 2 boxes of ESO, probably convincing my friends to do the same, and if, after all the updates that have happened since beta, and some additional time spent in the game are enough to convince a switch in subs, Zenimax will have it.
if not, then they've at least gotten my money for the boxes, and possibly some cash here and there for DLC's and some extras. I feel like that's a win for them, and us, either way.
Game History (the ones that count): Everquest, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Planetside 2
Very pleased with the change. Purchased the game the day of b2p announcement and enjoying the game. B2p is my favoured model. For the game to be a success devs and players need to reinvest in the game over time. The purchase price discourages worst of f2p gold sellers and trolls. Players are free to play the game or any others they feel like without the obligation of a sub.
Comments
Probably. Not me though. I had tons of fun, and I will continue to pay the sub because ESO is a freakin awesome game
GW2 is basicly the same thing, so long as they keep game breaking items out of the cash shop i am compleatly happy with it. atleast they did not (as of yet) pull a swtor with everything locked behind a cash wall.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!
When I read they were going a similar route to GW2 i was intrigued. But that's all BS. This model is nothing like GW2 at all. It's more similar to the likes of SWTOR / LotRO.
The more I read, the less this sounds like a carefully considered decision. This sounds like throwing every business model at the wall in the hopes that one of them will produce revenue. B2P, optional subscription, DLCs via the cashshop.. really? How many games how to go down this route before companies start to realize this is a bad idea.
When you start mixing too many differing business models it stops being an incentive, and starts looking like a desperate cash grab. The differing models actually start to work against each other, by removing some of the incentives to put money into the game, or to even try out the game at all. The whole point of B2P / F2P is to remove the barriers to trying out a new game. The idea is that by allowing more people to play your game without restrictions, you both make the game more fun for those that do put money in and also make it more likely that people will put money into your game.
Hopefully I'm wrong about this, but this actually does not seem to bode well for this game.
I have to say, this is the first time I've felt that PC players got the shaft. If you read between the lines, it is obvious that Microsoft is pushing Zeni in the direction MS wants for consoles. Zeni can either go that way or back off. I suspect a big part of the console delay was due to negotiations around subs on the console release. And Zeni caved. That's their business decision, but as a PC gamer, I'm getting tired of the distortion consoles and the console monoliths have brought to gaming.
There were no personal insults, yet i do find it amusing that you are the one with the emotional response, pot meet kettle and all that. It didn't become a beta overnight. For many, it has felt that way for many months now. I am quite happy with the coming conversion and i do enjoy the game from time to time, however i'm not going to sit here while you label others "entitled brats" when they have every right to state their opinion on the matter, regardless of how you feel about it. You are painting generalizations with broad strokes. Once again. Stop it.
You know the biggest difference? No cash to gold conversion in ESO. Imo it's the saving grace. No one will be spending 300$ to buy crowns to turn them into gold to buy epics. No costumes or mounts bought in the cash shop hits the market. No gold buying.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
The problem is that almost every single game that introduced a cash shop, they all stated at first that all we could buy is cosmetic items.
Lotro is a good example of this.
Then within a year, they stop putting time into developing good quality end game stuff such as raids, as there's more money to be made in making crap that the casual player will buy from the shop.
End result, they make more money, long term players hate what the game has become.
Yes I get it that companies are there to make money, but using that argument, they might as well just written another candy crush for tablets rather than something using the Elder Scrolls title.
I was looking forwards to this game the day it was announced. I expected to be playing for years. I left a few months ago due to them not being able to keep PvP playable for more than 3 weeks out of 6.
The sub was never the problem, the game play was. A free weekend for previous subscribers would be all that was needed for us to see if it was worth re-subbing or not.
Now it really really really does feel like we paid to beta test and worse than that, it feels like instead of them concentrating on fixing all the issues we raised as quickly as possible, a large part of their dev team was working on the B2P/cash shop model while us suckers carried on paying their salaries.
In my opinion they should stop subs right now, this very second, expecting PC players to pay until mid March is just rubbing salt into the wounds.
No. The Secret World ran for less than 6 months as box price + required sub + cosmetic cash shop before switching to box price + paid DLC + cosmetic & "convenience" cash shop + optional sub granting store points &c. The outline description of the perks of the ESO optional sub seems slightly more generous than TSW's (where subscribers need to buy DLCs using their store point allowance, albeit at a slight discount).
ESO even if it wasn't able to sustain a sub required model will hopefully at least continue to do well enough, esp. with forthcoming console launch, that content updates won't slow to the crawl rate we saw in TSW.
I was honestly expecting this. The game certainly feels busy and Zenimax has shown continued investment in the game via updates. However, I simply don't think a sub-model is as accepted on consoles as it is PCs. And running PC customers and console customers on different models would simply be awkward. However, as a subscriber, I do fear what will happen when it goes B2P....
SOE made this choice for DC Universe and it worked out well. It continues to get regular beefy updates/DLC today. Funcom went this route for AoC and TSW - and while they continue to get updates - they definitely do not get the same level of development resources that SOE dedicates to DC Universe.
It will be interesting to see what happens. Hope it pays off.
Indeed. ESO Unlimited can also be seen as sub with (quite huge) free trial, both of which are miles above GW2´s current state.
To be more specific, at which point between subs and BTP it will end in the long run depends on number of players subbing/DLCing, which depends on development pace which, again depends on number of players etc. Anything can happen, cashShop PTW degeneration simply being the worst possibility.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't have DLC packs...unless you don't log in time to get the new living story for free. It also doesn't have any sub-model like ESO is going to have. ESO is closer to The Secret World model than GW2.
EQ2 expansions only cost something if you want it now, the previous expansion content become free when a new expansion release (usually the next year). The only exception is the feature pack with the beastmaster class and mercenary stuff.
The game sells itself on RvR which is massive pvp battles in Cyrodiil. With the dropping of subs this means there will be a cash shop put into the game and every mmo that has any kind of pvp content always ends up as a pay to win game. This means the more money you pump into it the better and tougher your character will become. This is something I dislike greatly and should never be put into a cash store.
I know what the devs have said about the cash shop, but they have lied to me once by saying "The game will not be going free to play and is set up for subs without there being additional paygates"
Now with this there will be paygates in that you will have to buy new content unless you pay a monthly subscription,
On this I am leaving the game and will let my subscription to it end, I hope the game dies in flames.
well lets see
If feeling pay2win i bash and quit
if feeling cool i pay sub to support game
Like us or not , its company and company needs money
But if company become greeder , dont take any single penny
I actually appreciate this a lot. As parents, my wife and I are on a budget, and that can make multiple subs difficult. We pay a WoW sub for the both of us, cuz we like the game, but more importantly, that's where our friends all are. But we don't always feel like playing WoW, and we like a little variety to keep that game from growing stale. The F2P and B2P options have made that very doable.
We beta tested ESO, and while we enjoyed it, overall we didn't feel so drawn to it as to drop our WoW subs - which we found to be the case with games like TOR, Rift, and EQ2, as well. We've always had an interest in playing them, but didn't think they were worth the sub money. With the alternative payment models, we get to enjoy these games, while having more control over what amounts, and when, we pay money on them, without switching monthly subs all the time.
With this announcement, I am definitely planning on buying 2 boxes of ESO, probably convincing my friends to do the same, and if, after all the updates that have happened since beta, and some additional time spent in the game are enough to convince a switch in subs, Zenimax will have it.
if not, then they've at least gotten my money for the boxes, and possibly some cash here and there for DLC's and some extras. I feel like that's a win for them, and us, either way.
Game History (the ones that count): Everquest, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Planetside 2
Very pleased with the change. Purchased the game the day of b2p announcement and enjoying the game. B2p is my favoured model. For the game to be a success devs and players need to reinvest in the game over time. The purchase price discourages worst of f2p gold sellers and trolls. Players are free to play the game or any others they feel like without the obligation of a sub.