Hey, lets start a new trend of making up games that haven't even become an itch in someones pants yet and predict it's future, that way we can all wallow in our disappointment of life in general even longer than we do now. We're clearly not maximizing or disappointment factor if we don't go looking for it under every rock we can turn over.
I for one don't care what anyone says about the game... I'm still going to play it. It's going to be free to play after all. There's no loss to try it. Even if it only lasts 24 hours, it's still 24 hours... oh wait, that would be a positive. Damn game, how dare they put out a free game and only give me 24 hours of content to consume!
There, now we're all happy.
Telling game developers what's not acceptable before they develop a game is not wallowing in disappointment. Otherwise we can all bury our heads in the sand and have nothing to say when a game releases and it's crap.
Problem is, you seem to think that by the time you get to see the game it's still at a point in which they can totally revamp it. It's in open beta and due for release. It's not going to magically become something different because you want it to be so.
And for the record... games have been going down the crapper ever since the players got involved in the development of them. I for one wish the developers would stay in the black hole they initially penned out their ideas and only come out when the game is launching. All this arm chair directing is what is killing games... every one here bitching about what they'd like in a game are the problem. They give you want you want and you realize it's not really what you wanted. And even if it is what you wanted, no one else wants it. Sorry to tell you this, but its a game, not everyone is supposed to get their way.
Completely wrong - look at Trove - that game would have gone nowhere without the community involvement. when it firest went into public alpha (version 0.0.1) - the game didn't even have combat - that was November of 2013. A year later with community involvement the game went from nothing to beta launch in less than 1 year - with full fledged gameplay systems in place.
The game changed direction due to community feedback several times.
open development and getting folks in early is a double edged sword - if you don't have a team that can deliver *fast* patches and content (Trove was doing 2 patches per week for the entire year of alpha) players are going to lose interest and move on.
Also showing your dirty laundry and alpha to the world is humbling and not every studio can stomach it - but IMO open development when done right is FAR better than the old "blackout" approach where you don't announce anything til game completion only to find out (too late) that you've made a 60mil turd.
/sorry I went off on a tangent
Trove hasn't been released yet... you can't use it as an example of a success story until that day comes. The public will decide if it's a turd or not after they've played it a while.
Game companies scrap games all the time without showing a nil of the work... Titan comes to mind. They aren't stupid, they don't need you to back seat drive for them. I still have yet to see a single game that has early player influence turn into anything but a turd. I prefer the days when you bought a game off the shelf because the writeup and graphics on the box appealed to you. Sure it may fall flat or be a wonderful surprise. When a success story happens, I'll eat my words... but to date, it never has.
Trove hasn't been released yet... you can't use it as an example of a success story until that day comes. The public will decide if it's a turd or not after they've played it a while.
Game companies scrap games all the time without showing a nil of the work... Titan comes to mind. They aren't stupid, they don't need you to back seat drive for them. I still have yet to see a single game that has early player influence turn into anything but a turd. I prefer the days when you bought a game off the shelf because the writeup and graphics on the box appealed to you. Sure it may fall flat or be a wonderful surprise. When a success story happens, I'll eat my words... but to date, it never has.
Trove is in open beta, which is basically release because they are not wiping and everyone can play. If you have played Trove you can see that it's not a turd and is a really good game, for what it is. Another great game with community involvement is Planet Explorers. I know it's not an mmo but its a really good RPG that is in early access.
The days of devs being secretive about game development is over. EQN, The Repop, Shroud of the Avatar - one of these games is likely to turn out well and your entire argument will be invalid.
stage is set, wheels are in motion, key players are in place, - even the timing is done well enough so that by release time people will have forgotten about 2014 siege mmos - rinse and repeat. Daum I hope comes up with some innovative server solutions because the NA community has been burnt too often for too long already and if they are looking for a bait and switch cash and dash - good luck ... they are gonna have to be more creative than f2p, cash shop, rmt, p2w scams.
What are you going on about, OP? I don't know anything about BD but AA definitely isn't a WoW clone. It has crappy themepark questing but that's where the similarities end.
Originally posted by Scambug What are you going on about, OP? I don't know anything about BD but AA definitely isn't a WoW clone. It has crappy themepark questing but that's where the similarities end.
I think OP was actually comparing wow and blessed online. the simliarities between AA and BDO
1. new publisher
2. seige
3. global auction house
4. trading economy
5. user community
5. tbd business model
it's starting to add up. there are differences but the principal concepts remain the same and if it does go f2p, cash shop, rmt, p2w -- expect the same thing for the most part
Originally posted by Scambug What are you going on about, OP? I don't know anything about BD but AA definitely isn't a WoW clone. It has crappy themepark questing but that's where the similarities end.
I think OP was actually comparing wow and blessed online. the simliarities between AA and BDO
1. new publisher
2. seige
3. global auction house
4. trading economy
5. user community
5. tbd business model
it's starting to add up. there are differences but the principal concepts remain the same and if it does go f2p, cash shop, rmt, p2w -- expect the same thing for the most part
Dam already stated that it would be F2P... it was developed as a F2P game, it's going to be released as a F2P game. Cash shops and all. They're not developing a different game for the west, just localizing it.
I look at it this way, you can either play it for what it is and have some fun or you can add it to a long list of games you no longer play for whatever reason. Either way, it's still going to go live and people are going to play it. 2 people, 200 people, 200,000 people... who knows and who really cares? You'll either play it or you won't... it ain't going to hurt Daum's feelings either way.
Originally posted by Scambug What are you going on about, OP? I don't know anything about BD but AA definitely isn't a WoW clone. It has crappy themepark questing but that's where the similarities end.
I think OP was actually comparing wow and blessed online. the simliarities between AA and BDO
I think he's saying all 3 are WoW clones and that's why they're failing / doomed to fail.
Of course I agree, it isn't a very clever move to make yet another WoW clone these days.
But AA clearly isn't a WoW clone, so that can't be the cause for it's demise.
The next will be Bless which is just another faction based WoW clone.
During the OBT of Black Desert, most Koreans were able to reach level 50 in 24-48 hours and stoped playing without much to do after that, BD rapidly went down in the charts.
First was ArcheAge and now BD, the next failure will be Bless. I wonder how much time they need to realise that copying WoW features is what leading to those short MMO hype followed by oblivion.
I agree with you that bless too is also a faction based game like WoW.. however there are some neat things added to Bless Online it including some modern graphics and fun classes to play. Blessed will have to hope for same business model as WoW
The failure in archeage , BDO and bless will not so much be the lack of content - it is the Business Model/publisher.
Archeage and Black Gold online both failed IMO
1. new publishers
2. siege systems
3. faction based
4. global auction house systems
5. Same business models, f2p, cash shop, rmt, p2w = FAIL
Common Design with respect to Black Desert Online
black desert also shares similar things as both Black Gold and Archeage
1. new publisher
2. siege system
3. user community
4 global auction house
5. property / real estate (archeage and bdo common)
6. BUSSINESS MODEL TBD - if Daum Communications does go f2p, cash shop, RMT, P2W how they could expect any other result is crazy. So ultimately Black Desert's Success is completely dependent on the business model Daum chooses to use.
I hope for everyone interested in gaming we all get something different
My greater concern is will BD be able to do a better job controlling hackers, botters and other cheaters better than XLGames did with AA.
History of Korean made MMORPG's doesn't point to it.
From what I have seen of BD it appears to be a cheap clone of AA and other Asian games. I have seen the same trade run system, fishing system and other things in Archeage.
BD having another labor or crafting system, like AA, to cripple players is a huge red flag for me also. This will SURELY be bound in some way to a paywall, just like in AA. Pathetic.
As long as I played AA, I don't think a day went by when I didn't hear a person (more like 50 ppl a day) complain about being out of labor, or having nothing left to do in the game because they were crippled by labor points. The whole game is filled with afk people who never log off 24/7, and don't play either, because they are in a constant state of attempting to afk-gain labor points.
AA was one of the best sandbox games with open pvp I have seen and it was 100% ruined by poor management and a cash shop whore cash grab business model. No WAY I will play this after seeing it is following an AA template.
How is the crafting in BD? RNGESUS lottery system?
Healing is supposed to be done with pots? How do these pots tie in with the cash shop either directly or indirectly?
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
I wouldnt mind BD having LP for crafting as well. LP is not a bad system if THEY do it right. The LP system in AA is just stupidly implemented to benefit real money payers. That doesnt mean other companies have to do it wrong too.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by GeezerGamerOriginally posted by DMKanoOriginally posted by MavolenceOriginally posted by TheGoblinKingBD is based on labour points and F2P. Its going to be as fail as AA.
Are you serious!? BD also has Labor points? Unreal, screw that noiseTo each their own - I am a fan of point based crafting systems - prevents a single player flooding the market with 1000 swords in 1 day.Yes there are a billion other ways of limiting crafting without a point pool, but since the same point pool is tied into gathering as well - it as easy to keep track of and manage.I love how AA did it - especially the crazy amount of XP crafting gives.Unless it's monetized. Just the idea that it's good to be kept at a disadvantage unless you spend real cash is utterly absurd.Depending on how its monetized - it will be monetized as that is the easiest thing to do.
As long as all cash shop items including cash shop currency are tradable and sellable in AH for in game gold - I have no problems with it.
If they make it to where potions are account/character bound and the only way to get them is via spending real money - no thanks.
So your against someone flooding the market with 1000 swords but are fine with cash shop items flooding it?
Originally posted by ikcin There is no LP in BDO and nothing similar, the game has nothing common with AA.
Back Desert has a Stamina Point system almost identical to the Labor Point system in ArcheAge. Please research the system more before posting nonsense.
Originally posted by TheGoblinKing BD is based on labour points and F2P. Its going to be as fail as AA.
Are you serious!? BD also has Labor points? Unreal, screw that noise
To each their own - I am a fan of point based crafting systems - prevents a single player flooding the market with 1000 swords in 1 day.
Yes there are a billion other ways of limiting crafting without a point pool, but since the same point pool is tied into gathering as well - it as easy to keep track of and manage.
I love how AA did it - especially the crazy amount of XP crafting gives.
Unless it's monetized.
Just the idea that it's good to be kept at a disadvantage unless you spend real cash is utterly absurd.
Depending on how its monetized - it will be monetized as that is the easiest thing to do.
As long as all cash shop items including cash shop currency are tradable and sellable in AH for in game gold - I have no problems with it.
If they make it to where potions are account/character bound and the only way to get them is via spending real money - no thanks.
When you add a point system to stop the market being flooded by one crafter then let people buy points with RL money, IMO thats a very slippery slope. Very easy to turn that into P2W, market control or buying gold with RL cash. How you balance that is no small thing. Like GW2 you can buy gold with gems but that does not matter so much as gold means little in that game. So we really need to know how BD other system play into the point system and the cash shop. For me this is a caution flag.
Originally posted by VveVBoth games are grind-centric but by god is BDO #2mucgrind4me.
If you can get to top level in under 2 days played, how is that grindish? Is there something outside leveling thats grindy?
In Black Desert level 50 is only when you stop gaining new abilities/spells.
Black Desert has infinite levels.
Getting to level 50 only takes a couple days but getting to level 70, which is when you would be high enough to do all end game stuff, will take a couple months.
Originally posted by ikcinThere is no LP in BDO and nothing similar, the game has nothing common with AA.
Back Desert has a Stamina Point system almost identical to the Labor Point system in ArcheAge. Please research the system more before posting nonsense.
There is a stamina system when it comes to gathering resources, ie gathering, harvesting, fishing..stuff like that. But there is no stamina system when it comes to crafting. You can craft as much as you want.
You get 1 stamina point every 30 secs, so unless you grind like crazy you won't notice running out even at lower lvl's, and BD doesn't sell stamina pots in the cash shop.
Originally posted by Xiaoki Originally posted by Nanfoodle Originally posted by VveVBoth games are grind-centric but by god is BDO #2mucgrind4me.
If you can get to top level in under 2 days played, how is that grindish? Is there something outside leveling thats grindy? In Black Desert level 50 is only when you stop gaining new abilities/spells.
Black Desert has infinite levels.
Getting to level 50 only takes a couple days but getting to level 70, which is when you would be high enough to do all end game stuff, will take a couple months.
Pretty much this, BD has a soft cap of lvl 50, but there is no hard cap, and the xp from lvl 50 to 51 is 2x from lvl 1-50. Then the xp keeps going up from there. It's an absolute grindfest.
The game has been in open beta for about 6 weeks and the highest lvl player in the game at the moment is lvl 56, and you know how much Koreans love to grind.
Comments
Trove hasn't been released yet... you can't use it as an example of a success story until that day comes. The public will decide if it's a turd or not after they've played it a while.
Game companies scrap games all the time without showing a nil of the work... Titan comes to mind. They aren't stupid, they don't need you to back seat drive for them. I still have yet to see a single game that has early player influence turn into anything but a turd. I prefer the days when you bought a game off the shelf because the writeup and graphics on the box appealed to you. Sure it may fall flat or be a wonderful surprise. When a success story happens, I'll eat my words... but to date, it never has.
Trove is in open beta, which is basically release because they are not wiping and everyone can play. If you have played Trove you can see that it's not a turd and is a really good game, for what it is. Another great game with community involvement is Planet Explorers. I know it's not an mmo but its a really good RPG that is in early access.
The days of devs being secretive about game development is over. EQN, The Repop, Shroud of the Avatar - one of these games is likely to turn out well and your entire argument will be invalid.
New age gamers that have no idea of the history talk.
OP why the hell you even specify wow and wow clone, do you even know what are you talking about?
At the end wow is an clone too based on the principles that was invented by other games.
If wow is successful on mantaining its player base doesn't make the rest of the games that appear wow clones
I think OP was actually comparing wow and blessed online. the simliarities between AA and BDO
1. new publisher
2. seige
3. global auction house
4. trading economy
5. user community
5. tbd business model
it's starting to add up. there are differences but the principal concepts remain the same and if it does go f2p, cash shop, rmt, p2w -- expect the same thing for the most part
Dam already stated that it would be F2P... it was developed as a F2P game, it's going to be released as a F2P game. Cash shops and all. They're not developing a different game for the west, just localizing it.
I look at it this way, you can either play it for what it is and have some fun or you can add it to a long list of games you no longer play for whatever reason. Either way, it's still going to go live and people are going to play it. 2 people, 200 people, 200,000 people... who knows and who really cares? You'll either play it or you won't... it ain't going to hurt Daum's feelings either way.
I think he's saying all 3 are WoW clones and that's why they're failing / doomed to fail.
Of course I agree, it isn't a very clever move to make yet another WoW clone these days.
But AA clearly isn't a WoW clone, so that can't be the cause for it's demise.
Doesn't really matter.
@OP
I agree with you that bless too is also a faction based game like WoW.. however there are some neat things added to Bless Online it including some modern graphics and fun classes to play. Blessed will have to hope for same business model as WoW
The failure in archeage , BDO and bless will not so much be the lack of content - it is the Business Model/publisher.
Archeage and Black Gold online both failed IMO
1. new publishers
2. siege systems
3. faction based
4. global auction house systems
5. Same business models, f2p, cash shop, rmt, p2w = FAIL
Common Design with respect to Black Desert Online
black desert also shares similar things as both Black Gold and Archeage
1. new publisher
2. siege system
3. user community
4 global auction house
5. property / real estate (archeage and bdo common)
6. BUSSINESS MODEL TBD - if Daum Communications does go f2p, cash shop, RMT, P2W how they could expect any other result is crazy. So ultimately Black Desert's Success is completely dependent on the business model Daum chooses to use.
I hope for everyone interested in gaming we all get something different
Ill just leave this right here...
http://black-desert.com/articles/the-naked-truth-about-black-desert-onlines-current-state-of-affairs-open-beta/
Witty & Wicked
From what I have seen of BD it appears to be a cheap clone of AA and other Asian games. I have seen the same trade run system, fishing system and other things in Archeage.
BD having another labor or crafting system, like AA, to cripple players is a huge red flag for me also. This will SURELY be bound in some way to a paywall, just like in AA. Pathetic.
As long as I played AA, I don't think a day went by when I didn't hear a person (more like 50 ppl a day) complain about being out of labor, or having nothing left to do in the game because they were crippled by labor points. The whole game is filled with afk people who never log off 24/7, and don't play either, because they are in a constant state of attempting to afk-gain labor points.
AA was one of the best sandbox games with open pvp I have seen and it was 100% ruined by poor management and a cash shop whore cash grab business model. No WAY I will play this after seeing it is following an AA template.
How is the crafting in BD? RNGESUS lottery system?
Healing is supposed to be done with pots? How do these pots tie in with the cash shop either directly or indirectly?
Here we go again with the Labor point issue.
I wouldnt mind BD having LP for crafting as well. LP is not a bad system if THEY do it right. The LP system in AA is just stupidly implemented to benefit real money payers. That doesnt mean other companies have to do it wrong too.
To each their own - I am a fan of point based crafting systems - prevents a single player flooding the market with 1000 swords in 1 day. Yes there are a billion other ways of limiting crafting without a point pool, but since the same point pool is tied into gathering as well - it as easy to keep track of and manage. I love how AA did it - especially the crazy amount of XP crafting gives.
Unless it's monetized. Just the idea that it's good to be kept at a disadvantage unless you spend real cash is utterly absurd.
Depending on how its monetized - it will be monetized as that is the easiest thing to do.
As long as all cash shop items including cash shop currency are tradable and sellable in AH for in game gold - I have no problems with it.
If they make it to where potions are account/character bound and the only way to get them is via spending real money - no thanks.
So your against someone flooding the market with 1000 swords but are fine with cash shop items flooding it?
Back Desert has a Stamina Point system almost identical to the Labor Point system in ArcheAge. Please research the system more before posting nonsense.
Witty & Wicked
When you add a point system to stop the market being flooded by one crafter then let people buy points with RL money, IMO thats a very slippery slope. Very easy to turn that into P2W, market control or buying gold with RL cash. How you balance that is no small thing. Like GW2 you can buy gold with gems but that does not matter so much as gold means little in that game. So we really need to know how BD other system play into the point system and the cash shop. For me this is a caution flag.
If you can get to top level in under 2 days played, how is that grindish? Is there something outside leveling thats grindy?
You mean other than the lack of any meaningful PVE and a focus on unsustainable PVP?
Take this words
pre release - I NEED PLAY THIS GAME , I WANT , I WISH , Everything look cool
1 moth Everything so awesome
2 moth Not all its awesome anymore
3 moth Something its not i like , dont sure going resub/keep play
Early 4 moth - QUIT and Hype to next mmorpg
But in FACT BD ITS F2P and going same road AA
And guys deal with
Nailed it. Gonna be same problem with Crowfall.
You're right, the ever increasingly difficult computer monsters with predictable mechanics sure are fun...
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Black Desert has infinite levels.
Getting to level 50 only takes a couple days but getting to level 70, which is when you would be high enough to do all end game stuff, will take a couple months.
There is a stamina system when it comes to gathering resources, ie gathering, harvesting, fishing..stuff like that. But there is no stamina system when it comes to crafting. You can craft as much as you want.
You get 1 stamina point every 30 secs, so unless you grind like crazy you won't notice running out even at lower lvl's, and BD doesn't sell stamina pots in the cash shop.
In Black Desert level 50 is only when you stop gaining new abilities/spells.
Black Desert has infinite levels.
Getting to level 50 only takes a couple days but getting to level 70, which is when you would be high enough to do all end game stuff, will take a couple months.
Pretty much this, BD has a soft cap of lvl 50, but there is no hard cap, and the xp from lvl 50 to 51 is 2x from lvl 1-50. Then the xp keeps going up from there. It's an absolute grindfest.
The game has been in open beta for about 6 weeks and the highest lvl player in the game at the moment is lvl 56, and you know how much Koreans love to grind.