After a very long break I recently revisited "Landmark" to see where "Everquest Next" is heading.
First, sure, it was fun to explore the new stuff, and see things that have changed. The voxel engine is great, sea looks awesome, props are well done.
But there is a sharp contrast with things that still are horrible, as if made by hobbyists: the UI, the controls, the lack of configuration. The tools and handling are very bad.
I don't wanna review the thing, just want to point out that I've got the feeling, first, that I didn't feel like I was a paying customer in a closed beta. It felt more like being a paid QA tester, but in a work relationship where devs don't care much for my job.
Second, that there are many areas totally not acceptable in a professional product. Mouse handling in first person for example is very bad and you can't change the mouse settings. The graphics look extremely washed out, and there is no gamma setting. The list goes on and on. Things that could be addressed easily.
So I wondered: What is going wrong?
I was shocked when I found out that SOE lost $60,000,000 in 2014!
Because I have no clue where all this money could have gone! What I saw in Landmark was the same state as was shown at SOE Live 2013.
Some quick online research showed me some even more shocking insider leaks. They depict a very grim situation of SOE. Lack of funds, expertise, know-how. But read for yourself.
“An overly complacent culture satisfied with mediocrity detached from the rest of the game development community. ”
There seems to be a prevailing culture that is content with relative mediocrity. Mediocre visual presentation quality, long loading times, poor frame rates, and frequent seconds long hitches and stalls are the norm here. There are technical reasons for these issues that are lost on the majority of the engineers who work there. Those engineers that bring invaluable experience from other game studios that produce far superior titles face an uphill battle as they attempt to explain how things can and should work better to technical leads. Some tech leads in particular are highly intelligent software engineers, but would be better suited to lead work on non gaming applications while they have little to no experience working at other game studios, and on top of it all, don't seem to even enjoy playing games very much, especially the competition."
Effective developer tools are largely non-existent here. Other engineers have an air or arrogance when it comes to realizing the importance of good tools as they seem to think that they are the ones that make the games and fail to support the real hands-on developers: designers and artists. There's a real failure to realize that good tools means faster development time, and faster development time also means superior quality of output since motivation can remain high.
Negative cash flow year after year with routine mass layoffs make company longevity outlook pessimistic. SOE employs hundreds of people, and despite working there for years, I have no idea who most of them are, and always wondered why despite there being so many people getting paid, the quality of work is abysmally low overall.
Start completely over. Throw all the current crappy in-house developer tools away and make new ones. There are employees that are highly motivated to make great things happen. Find them and offer more incentive to succeed."
"No one in upper management had a prior job where they learned first hand how to build and run a great organization."
“Reactionary circle jerk while looking to recapture faded glory ”
Some reports read like troll attempts after getting laid off, but there is some truth behind all those statements, and even I as a customer can experience the issues, especially if I "have" to take part in testing an alpha version of their game. Again, I have no clue where the sixty million dollars have gone. Of course it went into the development of "H1Z1" and "Everquest Next", but where are the results? Why is "Landmark" still on the level they have been a year ago?
Is this a sinking ship where the crew has lost faith or even worse, is sabotaging the ship so they can jump off it sooner?
In any case, there is a lot to be done at SOE and this doesn't exclude a big internal restructuring process that separates the good apples from the bad ones...
You doomsayers aren't thinking at all. Past being armchair quarterbacks, way past, you're just saying ignorant things. In this situation, the game could be utter garbage, to wit, a remake of atari's ET, and still make a profit. So, keep talking if you like, but it doesn't amount nearly to the fact SOE is unconcerned with your rhetoric, possibly laughing straight at you, all the way to the bank.
Experience says otherwise. Veterans know all the problems of the genre, and if an MMO will succeed or fail. SOE's reputation isn't created by the players. It seems to me you just don't want to hear any discussion about SOE, but that doesn't mean other people can't discuss it. Stop being condescending, because it makes you look like a hypocrite, since most people will consider your words thoughtless, and ignorant rhetoric.
That post was uncharacteristically brash of me, or at least of the caliber for which I'd later apologize. I'm not particularly apologetic for it, however, even now in a different frame of mind.
"Veterans know all the problems of this genre..."
Well, no they don't. I don't accept that because I am a veteran of this genre and of computer gaming in general, and of people whose words I read and subsequently feel a sort of comradery for their sense and sentiment, we don't all agree. This is aside from participants who hallucinate they're authoritative or are clearly poor, unfounded or counterfactual portrayals of authoritativeness.
Your reaction is typical and I'm reminded of the cautionary words attributed to Mark Twain, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". What I should be saying is, "Yeh, well, that's just like, your opinion, man", especially if people are going to pointedly ignore the sensible first 2/3 of a post and ride my ass over the last third, which might be considered offensive in a vacuum.
You doomsayers aren't thinking at all. Past being armchair quarterbacks, way past, you're just saying ignorant things. In this situation, the game could be utter garbage, to wit, a remake of atari's ET, and still make a profit. So, keep talking if you like, but it doesn't amount nearly to the fact SOE is unconcerned with your rhetoric, possibly laughing straight at you, all the way to the bank.
Experience says otherwise. Veterans know all the problems of the genre, and if an MMO will succeed or fail. SOE's reputation isn't created by the players. It seems to me you just don't want to hear any discussion about SOE, but that doesn't mean other people can't discuss it. Stop being condescending, because it makes you look like a hypocrite, since most people will consider your words thoughtless, and ignorant rhetoric.
That post was uncharacteristically brash of me, or at least of the caliber for which I'd later apologize. I'm not particularly apologetic for it, however, even now in a different frame of mind.
"Veterans know all the problems of this genre..."
Well, no they don't. I don't accept that because I am a veteran of this genre and of computer gaming in general, and of people whose words I read and subsequently feel a sort of comradery for their sense and sentiment, we don't all agree. This is aside from participants who hallucinate they're authoritative or are clearly poor, unfounded or counterfactual portrayals of authoritativeness.
Your reaction is typical and I'm reminded of the cautionary words attributed to Mark Twain, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". What I should be saying is, "Yeh, well, that's just like, your opinion, man", especially if people are going to pointedly ignore the sensible first 2/3 of a post and ride my ass over the last third, which might be considered offensive in a vacuum.
For evidence as to how much us "veterans" know look at what the discussion was before ESO and Wildstar launched. Massive commentary on how much of a flop ESO was going to be and WS was going to do ok since it was catering to the hardcore crowd (even if it was WoW in space).
I agree that as a community we don't really know as much as we think we do. I think a mmo veteran will have a pretty good idea what they will or won't like based upon feature lists and some gameplay videos. However, our personal experiences won't reflect the market in general. Hell if the vets knew what they were talking about WoW woulda died a long time ago.
You doomsayers aren't thinking at all. Past being armchair quarterbacks, way past, you're just saying ignorant things. In this situation, the game could be utter garbage, to wit, a remake of atari's ET, and still make a profit. So, keep talking if you like, but it doesn't amount nearly to the fact SOE is unconcerned with your rhetoric, possibly laughing straight at you, all the way to the bank.
Experience says otherwise. Veterans know all the problems of the genre, and if an MMO will succeed or fail. SOE's reputation isn't created by the players. It seems to me you just don't want to hear any discussion about SOE, but that doesn't mean other people can't discuss it. Stop being condescending, because it makes you look like a hypocrite, since most people will consider your words thoughtless, and ignorant rhetoric.
That post was uncharacteristically brash of me, or at least of the caliber for which I'd later apologize. I'm not particularly apologetic for it, however, even now in a different frame of mind.
"Veterans know all the problems of this genre..."
Well, no they don't. I don't accept that because I am a veteran of this genre and of computer gaming in general, and of people whose words I read and subsequently feel a sort of comradery for their sense and sentiment, we don't all agree. This is aside from participants who hallucinate they're authoritative or are clearly poor, unfounded or counterfactual portrayals of authoritativeness.
Your reaction is typical and I'm reminded of the cautionary words attributed to Mark Twain, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". What I should be saying is, "Yeh, well, that's just like, your opinion, man", especially if people are going to pointedly ignore the sensible first 2/3 of a post and ride my ass over the last third, which might be considered offensive in a vacuum.
For evidence as to how much us "veterans" know look at what the discussion was before ESO and Wildstar launched. Massive commentary on how much of a flop ESO was going to be and WS was going to do ok since it was catering to the hardcore crowd (even if it was WoW in space).
I agree that as a community we don't really know as much as we think we do. I think a mmo veteran will have a pretty good idea what they will or won't like based upon feature lists and some gameplay videos. However, our personal experiences won't reflect the market in general. Hell if the vets knew what they were talking about WoW woulda died a long time ago.
A very very minimal amount of people actually expected WS to do well. Everyone knew it was going to flop because they were catering to the hardcore community. If WoW's continued longevity taught anyone anything is that you don't 100% cater to a niche community like that and pull in huge, sustained numbers.
Not to mention their implementation fell short. People wanted difficulty in that community, not tediousness. But that was learned after the fact and getting off topic.
It's so cute that MMORPG.com is STILL full of people looking for every opportunity to crap on SOE because EverQuest changed, or the NGE, etc.
The $60 million "loss" is the write-off for the canceled MMOs to be used for tax reasons. Glassdoor is full of negative crap about EVERY developer. Don't even have to confirm you worked there.
We know SOE prefers to promote from within, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Bunch of controversy scared up by a bunch of old disgruntled players in this thread. Move on already.
A very very minimal amount of people actually expected WS to do well. Everyone knew it was going to flop because they were catering to the hardcore community.
You have absolutely zero clue. Most hardcore gamers that I have talked to liked WS, except for the fact that the raiding was and is still broken. It has nothing do to with catering to a hardcore crowd.
Why would they spend anymore time playing if they know that raiding will never be fixed?
After a very long break I recently revisited "Landmark" to see where "Everquest Next" is heading.
First, sure, it was fun to explore the new stuff, and see things that have changed. The voxel engine is great, sea looks awesome, props are well done.
But there is a sharp contrast with things that still are horrible, as if made by hobbyists: the UI, the controls, the lack of configuration. The tools and handling are very bad.
I don't wanna review the thing, just want to point out that I've got the feeling, first, that I didn't feel like I was a paying customer in a closed beta. It felt more like being a paid QA tester, but in a work relationship where devs don't care much for my job.
Second, that there are many areas totally not acceptable in a professional product. Mouse handling in first person for example is very bad and you can't change the mouse settings. The graphics look extremely washed out, and there is no gamma setting. The list goes on and on. Things that could be addressed easily.
So I wondered: What is going wrong?
I was shocked when I found out that SOE lost $60,000,000 in 2014!
Because I have no clue where all this money could have gone! What I saw in Landmark was the same state as was shown at SOE Live 2013.
Some quick online research showed me some even more shocking insider leaks. They depict a very grim situation of SOE. Lack of funds, expertise, know-how. But read for yourself.
“An overly complacent culture satisfied with mediocrity detached from the rest of the game development community. ”
There seems to be a prevailing culture that is content with relative mediocrity. Mediocre visual presentation quality, long loading times, poor frame rates, and frequent seconds long hitches and stalls are the norm here. There are technical reasons for these issues that are lost on the majority of the engineers who work there. Those engineers that bring invaluable experience from other game studios that produce far superior titles face an uphill battle as they attempt to explain how things can and should work better to technical leads. Some tech leads in particular are highly intelligent software engineers, but would be better suited to lead work on non gaming applications while they have little to no experience working at other game studios, and on top of it all, don't seem to even enjoy playing games very much, especially the competition."
Effective developer tools are largely non-existent here. Other engineers have an air or arrogance when it comes to realizing the importance of good tools as they seem to think that they are the ones that make the games and fail to support the real hands-on developers: designers and artists. There's a real failure to realize that good tools means faster development time, and faster development time also means superior quality of output since motivation can remain high.
Negative cash flow year after year with routine mass layoffs make company longevity outlook pessimistic. SOE employs hundreds of people, and despite working there for years, I have no idea who most of them are, and always wondered why despite there being so many people getting paid, the quality of work is abysmally low overall.
Start completely over. Throw all the current crappy in-house developer tools away and make new ones. There are employees that are highly motivated to make great things happen. Find them and offer more incentive to succeed."
"No one in upper management had a prior job where they learned first hand how to build and run a great organization."
“Reactionary circle jerk while looking to recapture faded glory ”
Some reports read like troll attempts after getting laid off, but there is some truth behind all those statements, and even I as a customer can experience the issues, especially if I "have" to take part in testing an alpha version of their game. Again, I have no clue where the sixty million dollars have gone. Of course it went into the development of "H1Z1" and "Everquest Next", but where are the results? Why is "Landmark" still on the level they have been a year ago?
Is this a sinking ship where the crew has lost faith or even worse, is sabotaging the ship so they can jump off it sooner?
In any case, there is a lot to be done at SOE and this doesn't exclude a big internal restructuring process that separates the good apples from the bad ones...
Amylion
I can say that half of all of that (above), is true.
This all points to Smed and the direction He doesn't bring. SOE doesn't delegate authority to those who want it, while not demanding anything new from those who currently hold authority/responsibility.
So many people have been mum, knowing this explosion is coming sooner or later. Kind of like the Big Three in the 80's. Too fat & lazy top-hatters. SOE is trying to be a production line game maker... and doesn't understand that the public wants more depth than that... not rinse & repeat programming.
There is also a lot is misdirection in many of those "suggestions" above. SOE listens to consultants waaaay to much, instead of their own people... screaming with ideas & such.
I can say that half of all of that (above), is true.
This all points to Smed and the direction He doesn't bring. SOE doesn't delegate authority to those who want it, while not demanding anything new from those who currently hold authority/responsibility.Starting to look and feel like GM management during their decline..
So many people have been mum, knowing this explosion is coming sooner or later. Kind of like the Big Three in the 80's. Too fat & lazy top-hatters. SOE is trying to be a production line game maker... and doesn't understand that the public wants more depth than that... not rinse & repeat programming. So true.. It seems all their newer games are following the same template [ PS2, Landmark, EQN, H1Z1 ].. Lets go with reticle targeting..
There is also a lot is misdirection in many of those "suggestions" above. SOE listens to consultants waaaay to much, instead of their own people... screaming with ideas & such. Not sure if listening to their own people would be any better.. Personally I think Smed, Georgie and others are so "in love" with themselves, they can't stop looking in the mirror and see what the markets truly desires..
According to most 3rd party sites that document active game time, SOE games have yet to break into the top 50 and stay there.. If the true powers that be at Sony really wanted to make SOE into a premiere gaming company, they need to start with the "BIG GUY" and replace him.. Time for a new direction and leadership, while setting an example to everyone below that "status quo" is no longer acceptable..
Employees at my job talk shit about the company they work for too even when most of it is not true. People always trying to play the blame game. Just yesterday someone tried to blame me for something that happened on a day where I wasnt even at work at all.
When devs actually try something different, such as in GW2, ESO, TSW, etc.. gamers react that it's too different from trinity gameplay and too different from tab-target combat, etc..
That should be a pretty strong hint that trinity gameplay and tab targeting should not be the things changed for the sake of change. Every other aspect around those two needs to be looked at and improved upon, which isn't happening.
If you want to replace it you need to make mechanics that work well in groups as well.
Your new mechanics need to be at least as fun as trinity and co-operation needs to be very important in pulling things off.
This is the key for me personally. Non trinity based group play is absolutely terrible where everyone is only concerned with themselves. There are some nice exceptions like cross class combos that add some flavor, but it's not enough. I'm not saying it's impossible to get great group dynamics going in a non trinity, but i haven't seen it yet. I will say that the PVP is typically much better though.
Considering the H1Z1 release and the amount of pay2win in it, and lies about it not having it before launch.
One thing is clear. SoE is hurting for cash.
SoE is on it's last legs. I predict shut down in 2015.
/facepalm
Haha, you don't know anything about business, do you....
I know enough math that I know you can't write off $60 million in losses for very long.
SoE knew they would eat that when the remade EQN after it not being the MMO they wanted. They knew the bill would be high when the had 3 MMOs in the Q being made. You think for 1 min they are shocked with a 60 mill deficit? Most triple A MMOs cost 50-200 mill to make. If I could I would take your bet SoE is not going to be here much longer. Easy money.
Some of us already knew SOE has been on a downhill spike for a long time. Personally I think it happened when they destroyed SWG.
It happened for me back in EQ2 when they added Pizza Hut ads IN THE GAME, among many other issues. The in game pizza ads were just the final straw for me. I swore off SOE mmos back then saying "never again."
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
I've tried to tell people for years that the people that do hiring at the top level have no idea what the fuck they are doing. ALL the top management staff are liars and con artists that talk a big game and have no skills or education to back it up.
I personally know a lot of these people and the running joke among the management was " all because I lied on my application " .
Hell most of them were pulling more in bonuses that they were in salary, and those bonuses were tied to salary freezes on devs and artists. So while the people making the games got treated like shit the liars and con men were making bank.
You doomsayers aren't thinking at all. Past being armchair quarterbacks, way past, you're just saying ignorant things. In this situation, the game could be utter garbage, to wit, a remake of atari's ET, and still make a profit. So, keep talking if you like, but it doesn't amount nearly to the fact SOE is unconcerned with your rhetoric, possibly laughing straight at you, all the way to the bank.
Experience says otherwise. Veterans know all the problems of the genre, and if an MMO will succeed or fail. SOE's reputation isn't created by the players. It seems to me you just don't want to hear any discussion about SOE, but that doesn't mean other people can't discuss it. Stop being condescending, because it makes you look like a hypocrite, since most people will consider your words thoughtless, and ignorant rhetoric.
That post was uncharacteristically brash of me, or at least of the caliber for which I'd later apologize. I'm not particularly apologetic for it, however, even now in a different frame of mind.
"Veterans know all the problems of this genre..."
Well, no they don't. I don't accept that because I am a veteran of this genre and of computer gaming in general, and of people whose words I read and subsequently feel a sort of comradery for their sense and sentiment, we don't all agree. This is aside from participants who hallucinate they're authoritative or are clearly poor, unfounded or counterfactual portrayals of authoritativeness.
Your reaction is typical and I'm reminded of the cautionary words attributed to Mark Twain, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". What I should be saying is, "Yeh, well, that's just like, your opinion, man", especially if people are going to pointedly ignore the sensible first 2/3 of a post and ride my ass over the last third, which might be considered offensive in a vacuum.
For evidence as to how much us "veterans" know look at what the discussion was before ESO and Wildstar launched. Massive commentary on how much of a flop ESO was going to be and WS was going to do ok since it was catering to the hardcore crowd (even if it was WoW in space).
I agree that as a community we don't really know as much as we think we do. I think a mmo veteran will have a pretty good idea what they will or won't like based upon feature lists and some gameplay videos. However, our personal experiences won't reflect the market in general. Hell if the vets knew what they were talking about WoW woulda died a long time ago.
The only thing "veterans" proved on this site, is how bitter they are..
Most of them claim that WoW would die, and SWTOR flopped, yet WoW went back up to 10 million subs (a claimed impossibility), and SWTOR is the 2nd most played MMO in the west...
I wouldn't dare make the claim that "veterans know whats best" lol.
Originally posted by nilden Pretty scary how much of this is coming true...
Just a week ago i said i didn't even need anyone else's article to understand SOE,i also believe many others knew it as well.
It really was quite obvious ,you don't close down SEVERAL games unless you are hurting.You don't move from subscription to cash shop unless your numbers fall off the table and hope to make more money from less gamer's.
The ONLY turnaround i have seen is H1Z1 and it is seriously a laughable product,it has INDIE written all over it.SOE does not and has not had the money to spend on quality for quite some time,i said it 3-4 years ago when i noticed their expansion packs were becoming worse and worse in EQ2.
I even saw the same thing in FFXI before FFXIV came out,all you have to do is open your eyes,it is EASY to see what is going on out there in the gaming industry.
SOE no matter under a new banner,still has no money,everything they do will be second rate and asking for money before their products are finished.So before EVERYONE used to scoff at unfinished products,now for some odd reason gamer's are accepting 1/2 finished games and paying more than they should to support terrible game development.
One thing SOE NEVER learned was to keep a solid reputation.Blizzard does not make better games,matter of fact all their games are imo INDIE quality but they have a solid reputation among their fan base,not me lol but their fan base.
This business that took over the reigns should have just grabbed Naughty Dog,they are the only developer inside SOE's portfolio that has any merit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Experience says otherwise. Veterans know all the problems of the genre, and if an MMO will succeed or fail. SOE's reputation isn't created by the players. It seems to me you just don't want to hear any discussion about SOE, but that doesn't mean other people can't discuss it. Stop being condescending, because it makes you look like a hypocrite, since most people will consider your words thoughtless, and ignorant rhetoric.
SoE has value. Venture capital companies don't buy properties that don't have value. It's pretty simple. That doesn't mean that the old SoE won't change dramatically showing little semblance the its former self. But to say the problem was at SoE is to overlook the larger problem.
The larger problem is that Sony lost its focus and was entrenched in a stifling culture rooted in an outdated mindset. They have had an outdated mindset with hardware and gadgets, media, corporate culture, and if anything have been holding SoE back not the other way around.
Now that the studio is free of Sony it will be interesting to see how it evolves and whether Smedley can drive it somewhere successful or if he is even the right person for that.
This will go two ways.. Either a massive restructuring like what GM did, finding their focus, and becoming profitable.. This will probably result in downsizing, and reevaluating their finance structure such as subscriptions and cash shops.. OR The new company will trim off the fat where it can, still downsize into a smaller profitable company, then find a new owner with hopes of turning a profit for the investors..
If I am an exec like Smed and Georgie.. I would expect to be let go before the end of 2015, along with many others..
SoE has value. Venture capital companies don't buy properties that don't have value. It's pretty simple. That doesn't mean that the old SoE won't change dramatically showing little semblance the its former self. But to say the problem was at SoE is to overlook the larger problem.
The larger problem is that Sony lost its focus and was entrenched in a stifling culture rooted in an outdated mindset. They have had an outdated mindset with hardware and gadgets, media, corporate culture, and if anything have been holding SoE back not the other way around.
Now that the studio is free of Sony it will be interesting to see how it evolves and whether Smedley can drive it somewhere successful or if he is even the right person for that.
This will go two ways.. Either a massive restructuring like what GM did, finding their focus, and becoming profitable.. This will probably result in downsizing, and reevaluating their finance structure such as subscriptions and cash shops.. OR The new company will trim off the fat where it can, still downsize into a smaller profitable company, then find a new owner with hopes of turning a profit for the investors..
If I am an exec like Smed and Georgie.. I would expect to be let go before the end of 2015, along with many others..
I found the slowness of the Landmark development disheartning. I joined it at earliest possible Alpha, and since then the progress has seemingly slowed to a crawl or near halt. The news about EQ:Next too has been so minimal, it is really unsettling. I really thought we would have something more substantial when I joined Landmark a year ago (or so). But in terms of EQ:N we aren't one bit further.
So in the light of all this, I really wonder what the entire aqcuisition really means for Everquest Next. I kinda wonder if with the whole Voxel thing SOE didn't bite off more than they can chew.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I found the slowness of the Landmark development disheartning. I joined it at earliest possible Alpha, and since then the progress has seemingly slowed to a crawl or near halt. The news about EQ:Next too has been so minimal, it is really unsettling. I really thought we would have something more substantial when I joined Landmark a year ago (or so). But in terms of EQ:N we aren't one bit further.
So in the light of all this, I really wonder what the entire aqcuisition really means for Everquest Next. I kinda wonder if with the whole Voxel thing SOE didn't bite off more than they can chew.
You are not alone.. Especially that last part.. I wouldn't just say voxel, but including Storybricks as well.. Landmark feels like it's in delay mode, waiting for some miracle technology to come along and save the day.. My gut tells me that the hardware needed to run all that EQN wants to run, just isn't there yet.. How many times in the past do we have software that is great, but the hardware hasn't caught up yet.. I think EQN is at that point..
In my opinion Smed and gang set the bar too high, and now are finding out they can't jump it.. It would be surprising to see EQN actually come to life without some needed changes.. Especially too that Smed has announced their desire to go console with the games.. EQN to console? That would require some SERIOUS game alterations, with multiple formats and servers..
I found the slowness of the Landmark development disheartning. I joined it at earliest possible Alpha, and since then the progress has seemingly slowed to a crawl or near halt. The news about EQ:Next too has been so minimal, it is really unsettling. I really thought we would have something more substantial when I joined Landmark a year ago (or so). But in terms of EQ:N we aren't one bit further.
So in the light of all this, I really wonder what the entire aqcuisition really means for Everquest Next. I kinda wonder if with the whole Voxel thing SOE didn't bite off more than they can chew.
You are not alone.. Especially that last part.. I wouldn't just say voxel, but including Storybricks as well.. Landmark feels like it's in delay mode, waiting for some miracle technology to come along and save the day.. My gut tells me that the hardware needed to run all that EQN wants to run, just isn't there yet.. How many times in the past do we have software that is great, but the hardware hasn't caught up yet.. I think EQN is at that point..
In my opinion Smed and gang set the bar too high, and now are finding out they can't jump it.. It would be surprising to see EQN actually come to life without some needed changes.. Especially too that Smed has announced their desire to go console with the games.. EQN to console? That would require some SERIOUS game alterations, with multiple formats and servers..
I will agree on storybricks and voxels. Not only are landmarks the beta test grounds of voxels, but they have to finish landmarks before they can start working on EQN, which is basically going to be the beta development of storybricks which right now is on the prototype stage.
Bioware had enough problems with developing swtor because of hero engine not working properly, which is nothing compared to the insanity that DBG is doing.
It feels like blizzard did the smart thing and just went ahead and killed project titan because even if they pissed away tens of millions of dollars in the process it was still better than the alternative.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Comments
Landmark != Everquest next
That post was uncharacteristically brash of me, or at least of the caliber for which I'd later apologize. I'm not particularly apologetic for it, however, even now in a different frame of mind.
"Veterans know all the problems of this genre..."
Well, no they don't. I don't accept that because I am a veteran of this genre and of computer gaming in general, and of people whose words I read and subsequently feel a sort of comradery for their sense and sentiment, we don't all agree. This is aside from participants who hallucinate they're authoritative or are clearly poor, unfounded or counterfactual portrayals of authoritativeness.
Your reaction is typical and I'm reminded of the cautionary words attributed to Mark Twain, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". What I should be saying is, "Yeh, well, that's just like, your opinion, man", especially if people are going to pointedly ignore the sensible first 2/3 of a post and ride my ass over the last third, which might be considered offensive in a vacuum.
For evidence as to how much us "veterans" know look at what the discussion was before ESO and Wildstar launched. Massive commentary on how much of a flop ESO was going to be and WS was going to do ok since it was catering to the hardcore crowd (even if it was WoW in space).
I agree that as a community we don't really know as much as we think we do. I think a mmo veteran will have a pretty good idea what they will or won't like based upon feature lists and some gameplay videos. However, our personal experiences won't reflect the market in general. Hell if the vets knew what they were talking about WoW woulda died a long time ago.
A very very minimal amount of people actually expected WS to do well. Everyone knew it was going to flop because they were catering to the hardcore community. If WoW's continued longevity taught anyone anything is that you don't 100% cater to a niche community like that and pull in huge, sustained numbers.
Not to mention their implementation fell short. People wanted difficulty in that community, not tediousness. But that was learned after the fact and getting off topic.
The $60 million "loss" is the write-off for the canceled MMOs to be used for tax reasons. Glassdoor is full of negative crap about EVERY developer. Don't even have to confirm you worked there.
We know SOE prefers to promote from within, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Bunch of controversy scared up by a bunch of old disgruntled players in this thread. Move on already.
You have absolutely zero clue. Most hardcore gamers that I have talked to liked WS, except for the fact that the raiding was and is still broken. It has nothing do to with catering to a hardcore crowd.
Why would they spend anymore time playing if they know that raiding will never be fixed?
I can say that half of all of that (above), is true.
This all points to Smed and the direction He doesn't bring. SOE doesn't delegate authority to those who want it, while not demanding anything new from those who currently hold authority/responsibility.
So many people have been mum, knowing this explosion is coming sooner or later. Kind of like the Big Three in the 80's. Too fat & lazy top-hatters. SOE is trying to be a production line game maker... and doesn't understand that the public wants more depth than that... not rinse & repeat programming.
There is also a lot is misdirection in many of those "suggestions" above. SOE listens to consultants waaaay to much, instead of their own people... screaming with ideas & such.
According to most 3rd party sites that document active game time, SOE games have yet to break into the top 50 and stay there.. If the true powers that be at Sony really wanted to make SOE into a premiere gaming company, they need to start with the "BIG GUY" and replace him.. Time for a new direction and leadership, while setting an example to everyone below that "status quo" is no longer acceptable..
I know enough math that I know you can't write off $60 million in losses for very long.
This is the key for me personally. Non trinity based group play is absolutely terrible where everyone is only concerned with themselves. There are some nice exceptions like cross class combos that add some flavor, but it's not enough. I'm not saying it's impossible to get great group dynamics going in a non trinity, but i haven't seen it yet. I will say that the PVP is typically much better though.
SoE knew they would eat that when the remade EQN after it not being the MMO they wanted. They knew the bill would be high when the had 3 MMOs in the Q being made. You think for 1 min they are shocked with a 60 mill deficit? Most triple A MMOs cost 50-200 mill to make. If I could I would take your bet SoE is not going to be here much longer. Easy money.
It happened for me back in EQ2 when they added Pizza Hut ads IN THE GAME, among many other issues. The in game pizza ads were just the final straw for me. I swore off SOE mmos back then saying "never again."
I've tried to tell people for years that the people that do hiring at the top level have no idea what the fuck they are doing. ALL the top management staff are liars and con artists that talk a big game and have no skills or education to back it up.
I personally know a lot of these people and the running joke among the management was " all because I lied on my application " .
Hell most of them were pulling more in bonuses that they were in salary, and those bonuses were tied to salary freezes on devs and artists. So while the people making the games got treated like shit the liars and con men were making bank.
I'm waiting for my money...
The only thing "veterans" proved on this site, is how bitter they are..
Most of them claim that WoW would die, and SWTOR flopped, yet WoW went back up to 10 million subs (a claimed impossibility), and SWTOR is the 2nd most played MMO in the west...
I wouldn't dare make the claim that "veterans know whats best" lol.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Just a week ago i said i didn't even need anyone else's article to understand SOE,i also believe many others knew it as well.
It really was quite obvious ,you don't close down SEVERAL games unless you are hurting.You don't move from subscription to cash shop unless your numbers fall off the table and hope to make more money from less gamer's.
The ONLY turnaround i have seen is H1Z1 and it is seriously a laughable product,it has INDIE written all over it.SOE does not and has not had the money to spend on quality for quite some time,i said it 3-4 years ago when i noticed their expansion packs were becoming worse and worse in EQ2.
I even saw the same thing in FFXI before FFXIV came out,all you have to do is open your eyes,it is EASY to see what is going on out there in the gaming industry.
SOE no matter under a new banner,still has no money,everything they do will be second rate and asking for money before their products are finished.So before EVERYONE used to scoff at unfinished products,now for some odd reason gamer's are accepting 1/2 finished games and paying more than they should to support terrible game development.
One thing SOE NEVER learned was to keep a solid reputation.Blizzard does not make better games,matter of fact all their games are imo INDIE quality but they have a solid reputation among their fan base,not me lol but their fan base.
This business that took over the reigns should have just grabbed Naughty Dog,they are the only developer inside SOE's portfolio that has any merit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Experience says otherwise. Veterans know all the problems of the genre, and if an MMO will succeed or fail. SOE's reputation isn't created by the players. It seems to me you just don't want to hear any discussion about SOE, but that doesn't mean other people can't discuss it. Stop being condescending, because it makes you look like a hypocrite, since most people will consider your words thoughtless, and ignorant rhetoric.
Dushyant Vaghela
http://explorequotes.com/
<a href="http://explorequotes.com/funny-sms/">Funny SMS</a>
<a href="http://explorequotes.com/birthday-sms/">Birthday SMS</a>
<a href="http://explorequotes.com/hindi-sms-quotes/">Hindi SMS</a>
This will go two ways.. Either a massive restructuring like what GM did, finding their focus, and becoming profitable.. This will probably result in downsizing, and reevaluating their finance structure such as subscriptions and cash shops.. OR The new company will trim off the fat where it can, still downsize into a smaller profitable company, then find a new owner with hopes of turning a profit for the investors..
If I am an exec like Smed and Georgie.. I would expect to be let go before the end of 2015, along with many others..
I wouldnt see you calling it any other way =-)
I found the slowness of the Landmark development disheartning. I joined it at earliest possible Alpha, and since then the progress has seemingly slowed to a crawl or near halt. The news about EQ:Next too has been so minimal, it is really unsettling. I really thought we would have something more substantial when I joined Landmark a year ago (or so). But in terms of EQ:N we aren't one bit further.
So in the light of all this, I really wonder what the entire aqcuisition really means for Everquest Next. I kinda wonder if with the whole Voxel thing SOE didn't bite off more than they can chew.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You are not alone.. Especially that last part.. I wouldn't just say voxel, but including Storybricks as well.. Landmark feels like it's in delay mode, waiting for some miracle technology to come along and save the day.. My gut tells me that the hardware needed to run all that EQN wants to run, just isn't there yet.. How many times in the past do we have software that is great, but the hardware hasn't caught up yet.. I think EQN is at that point..
In my opinion Smed and gang set the bar too high, and now are finding out they can't jump it.. It would be surprising to see EQN actually come to life without some needed changes.. Especially too that Smed has announced their desire to go console with the games.. EQN to console? That would require some SERIOUS game alterations, with multiple formats and servers..
I will agree on storybricks and voxels. Not only are landmarks the beta test grounds of voxels, but they have to finish landmarks before they can start working on EQN, which is basically going to be the beta development of storybricks which right now is on the prototype stage.
Bioware had enough problems with developing swtor because of hero engine not working properly, which is nothing compared to the insanity that DBG is doing.
It feels like blizzard did the smart thing and just went ahead and killed project titan because even if they pissed away tens of millions of dollars in the process it was still better than the alternative.