I have played these games too, and they have little to no vision. Its been far more common for developers to emulate rather than innovate in the last decade. They might have good ideas, maybe great artists and talented people who are passionate about their individual work, but as a whole, the driving force - the underlying ideas and concepts - behind *most* MMOs in the last decade has been whatever is likely to get funded and make the most money. I'm not talking about indie projects that may or may not ever get released, I'm talking major developers and mainstream games that have made it to launch. Its not all their fault though. The people with funding are creating games that are "safe" and they can pitch to investors based on previous successful games.
That I can agree with - but again is this really surprising for any business?
I mean should we honestly expect otherwise when it comes to projects that are in the $60 million + range?
When you are asking someone for a lot of money - they are going to expect a very large return in the end.
Sure, but you're now arguing besides the point, and perhaps kind of missing it.
No one's arguing that a business shouldn't want to make money, nor be successful. The thing is, and this is territory you seem to be treading on, Kano, is that you're presuming a desired level of success for the developers of Crowfall, which you can't do, unless you know what their plans/vision/goal is with it.
It's in the same stable as people who assume that, to be a successful MMO dev, you need to spend 10s of millions of dollars, have systems and content that appeal to tons of people, and be able to go up against WoW. All of that is only true if you're trying to target WoW's market, and attract their numbers.
If you're targeting a smaller audience with a more specific playstyle, and your development/operating budget is planned out with the revenue from a smaller player-base in mind, then you could do just fine. It's not a "go big or go home" situation. Success isn't "one size fits all".
It's all in the approach. I saw a great way of explaining it some time ago, and I can't remember where, so unfortunately I can't cite it. But, there are two mindsets you can approach it with.
We want to make a ton of money, and will develop a game, following all the most commercially proven methods to do so.
We want to make a great game built around our own ideas. We need money to create it.
What people are looking for, and what the Crowfall folks seem to be following, is item #2. What people are speaking against, and what you seem to be defending as the only viable approach, is item #1.
To put it another way...
Imagine a couple wants to open a small, mom-and-pop style pizzeria. They have their own recipes for pizza, subs, pastas, etc. They have the name picked. They have the logo sketched out. They have the menu written up, etc. They want to go into business for themselves. It's something they're passionate about.
While they're setting the place up, someone comes up to them and says "Why are you opening your own place? Why don't you buy into an established franchise? You'll never be able to compete with Papa John's and Dominos and Pizza Hut. They have proven recipes, get far more business and make far more money. Why not just go with one of them instead? Why risk doing it your own way? Don't you want to make a lot of money and be successful?"
The response from one of the owners is, "Because we don't want to use someone else's logo, someone else's recipes and all this. We want to create something of our own, with our own recipes made with our own hand-picked ingredients, our own menu, our own dining experience, our own flavor of hospitality and service. We don't care if we aren't as big as those franchises, because we're not trying to be like them. We want to provide something more personal and close to home. As long as we can do well enough to keep the business going, to bring some money in, pay our staff and be happy, that's all the success we need or could ever want".
"But you'll never be able to compete with the big names".
"We don't need to, and we aren't trying to".
The above example is one I've actually seen myself, in person. When I was younger, a school mate's folks were opening their own pizzeria/Italian restaurant. And that's exactly the cynicism they were shown.. "why waste your time and money? You'll never do as well as the big franchises". Their reason was right in line with what I said in my hypothetical example.
And you know what happened? They did great. They found a core customer base of people who were looking for a more personal, home-made style pizzeria - exactly what they were offering. Word got around about the place, and they got to the point, several years on, where they were able to open a second location across town, which also did well. Were they doing as well as Papa John's or Dominos? No. But they were doing better than they imagined they would. They were successful.
Now, could they have failed? Of course. Their recipes could have been awful. Service could have been poor, etc. But it wasn't. They followed their gut and their dreams, and it worked.
"Making tons of money" wasn't their goal. That wasn't their idea of "success". Opening their own place and being successful enough to do something they were passionate about was.
And *that's* the difference.
That's the difference between the typical commerical, mainstream MMO, and something more tightly focused and targeted like Crowfall.
One side wants to make as much money as possible through a game they're developing. The other side wants to earn enough money to develop the kind of game they want to make.
Success isn't always measured in how many $$$s you have in your bottom line.
Could the Crowfall folks go the safer route, more guaranteed to make "more money"? Sure. But then they wouldn't be making the game they want to make... and that would kinda defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?
They know what's at stake. They tried once already and failed. So no one needs to tell them how big a risk they're taking. They've already lived it. Yet, they're doing it anyway. Because there's a game they have in their mind, that they have yet to make a reality... and they want to make it one. That, to me, speaks volumes more than someone who's just looking to tick all the correct marketing check-boxes to make a game "commercially viable" by mainstream standards - the genre's already full of those.
Pratt2112, that is an excellent, but perhaps a bit long winded, analogy. I really appreciate the light you are trying to spread on the issue even though I usually call an analogy the result of a weak argument.
I personally do not feel that reality is matching up with your altruistic view. The fact that the game will have a box price, a real money store and an "optional" (That we all know will totally not be optional) VIP monthly subscription makes me feel like they are trying to dip into the well just a bit too much.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
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Pratt2112, that is an excellent, but perhaps a bit long winded, analogy. I really appreciate the light you are trying to spread on the issue even though I usually call an analogy the result of a weak argument.
I personally do not feel that reality is matching up with your altruistic view. The fact that the game will have a box price, a real money store and an "optional" (That we all know will totally not be optional) VIP monthly subscription makes me feel like they are trying to dip into the well just a bit too much.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.