Originally posted by fistorm So what we are really looking at is a system much like the LOTRO turbine points system, and nothing beyond that. I think LOTRO got it right with buy to play, they started going pay to win when they added stats to the store though. I think ESO would be able to pull this off if they kept it to how LOTRO did it when they first opened their store.
Popular misconception it seems. I was there at the time LOTRO went F2P. They were always very aggressive with their shop -- even at the start -- with their downgrading of character slots, bag slots, etc. for the free players and selling it back to you in the cash shop.
ESO has done zero nerfing of free accounts.
For 60$ which you will need to shell out for ESO you could have everything unlock on any character you wanted along with 4 months of sub (so all content unlocked) and accumulate Turbine points through playing to spend in cash shop as you wish (and you can grind unlimited TPs if you want to) on top of what you get monthly from sub.
There is NO free in ESO. What are these free ESO accounts you mention? Did anyone get their ESO account free? I could use one.
As far as financials go, LOTRO was/is MUCH better deal.
And, just for teh record, LOTRO never downgarded any charater, you dontt lose ANYTHING character wise if you let your sub lapse and never did (and sub completely unlocks your character). So no, they never "sold you back" anything. Where are these missinformations coming from?
You can read the rest of it yourself and probably make sense of it...
As to your hissy fit over my use of the word "free" for ESO... I'll go right back and edit it to "not-subbed" just for you and other literally minded people determined to find something to bitch about.
And you forgot to mention that all that "on the right" is gone with single month of sub for 15$ forever.
I can make sense of it, i wrote a guide for new players on Turbine forums when LOTRO went free how to least painfully unlock everything. In LOTRO FREE means FREE, not 60$ "free", because all you can do with ESO for FREE is read about it.
AND on top of that you can earn unlimited Turbine points by grinding and literally unlock EVERYTHING for free. Real free, no $$ involved.
Its funny how lot of people on this site dont get that if you oay for something its NOT free lol
"Freedom to play and pay how you want! Because before we said fuck you and told you that you needed to sub to pay, but that didn't work out so well for us : /"
Though I'm not complaining, I'll probably pick up a box on sale at some point.
Its actually a double fuc you because you aren't really free to play and pay how you want because if you don't pay, you don't get any of the new updates which will be branded as DLC. Its offering a choice without really offering a choice.
The Pizza crust is free, but the sauce, cheese and other toppings cost money.
Not saying it should be free, I hate F2P games, I hate the BS companies pull like this even more though. Call it what it is, a B2P game that is also a subscription paytrap. Possibly a model that is actually worse straight up Freemium F2P because you have to cough up money to fall into the trap!
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by Tyr216 It sounds like console players are getting screwed if they want to subscribe because not only will they have to pay for their PSN/XBL service, but they'll also have to pay for the sub. If this is the case, I'm not sure I'll be playing the console version, as much as I was wanting to.
The same goes for FFXIV console players. I'm not following your logic. Zenimax isn't screwing those console players, their respective console companies are. You can't expect Zenimax to not charge players a monthly subscription if they want the same services provided to subscription players on the PC.
Also, the console online service fees are insanely cheap at <~= $50 a year.
For a brand new console player TESO is just another B2P game. That is the message Z want to push. I like the allusion to a subscription honeytrap above though!
And - we can assume - that they are going to market it as a B2P game. No way are they going to suggest that you need to pay a sub.
And on day 1 - no DLC - so new console players will have access to everything.
And that is why there is no "restrictions" in place. Can you imagine Z launching TESO with "restrictions"? Buy TESO it is B2P but unless you pay a sub you won't: be able to use char, you will have 50% less bags, etc. etc. Anyone think that this would go down well? I doubt it.
Or what about - buy TESO but unless you pay a sub the 10% bonus you won't have access to will make you a second class player? Same deal.
So it is going to come down to the DLC - as and when it releases. How "big" will the DLC be; what will Z charge? One dungeon $1000? Good joke! Two at $50? Don't think so. Then again given the suggestion that they might charge more than $10 for "special" mounts ....
Market forces will operate and other games can be used as a guide: BF4, Titanfall, Destiny and so forth. And Destiny drew complaints that suggest it was pushing the price / content boundary.
Time will tell what value subscribing might have but until there is some DLC, as I have said before, a sub = a $15 spend in the cash shop. And I don't want to see the cash shop as Z's focus. Delusional? Probably.
Someone correct me if I read this wrong. You don't subscribe you have no access to the DLCs. If you subscribe you get access to the DLCs until you stop subscribing. So, you are not buying DLCs, you are just renting them. If thats the case this is still a subscription game trying to hide itself using the term hybrid. If I'm paying for something I want full use of it. Buy the base game, buy the DLCs and always be able to use them, not rent them for a couple of months.
Originally posted by mbd1968 Someone correct me if I read this wrong. You don't subscribe you have no access to the DLCs. If you subscribe you get access to the DLCs until you stop subscribing. So, you are not buying DLCs, you are just renting them. If thats the case this is still a subscription game trying to hide itself using the term hybrid. If I'm paying for something I want full use of it. Buy the base game, buy the DLCs and always be able to use them, not rent them for a couple of months.
You can buy DLCs separately, one of the "perks" of sub is that you will have access to all DLCs without buying them, but if you just prefer buying them (and have them forever) without paying sub they say thats an option.
Originally posted by mbd1968 Someone correct me if I read this wrong. You don't subscribe you have no access to the DLCs. If you subscribe you get access to the DLCs until you stop subscribing. So, you are not buying DLCs, you are just renting them. If thats the case this is still a subscription game trying to hide itself using the term hybrid. If I'm paying for something I want full use of it. Buy the base game, buy the DLCs and always be able to use them, not rent them for a couple of months.
You can buy DLCs separately, one of the "perks" of sub is that you will have access to all DLCs without buying them, but if you just prefer buying them (and have them forever) without paying sub they say thats an option.
You can read the rest of it yourself and probably make sense of it...
As to your hissy fit over my use of the word "free" for ESO... I'll go right back and edit it to "not-subbed" just for you and other literally minded people determined to find something to bitch about.
And you forgot to mention that all that "on the right" is gone with single month of sub for 15$ forever.
I can make sense of it, i wrote a guide for new players on Turbine forums when LOTRO went free how to least painfully unlock everything. In LOTRO FREE means FREE, not 60$ "free", because all you can do with ESO for FREE is read about it.
AND on top of that you can earn unlimited Turbine points by grinding and literally unlock EVERYTHING for free. Real free, no $$ involved.
Its funny how lot of people on this site dont get that if you oay for something its NOT free lol
I've played LotRO a really long time and I have to agree with Iselin. You do lose out on stuff when you drop your VIP. You lose some character and account perks like the wardrobe slots, character slot and such. You do get to keep some perks but not for newly created characters. You do lose out on access to some DLC too, but some DLC you don't get access to unless you buy the xpac. I like the LotRO system okay, but I think they monetize way too much stuff (fast travel, LI slots, relic unslotting, LI legacies, etc etc). It's not a big deal, but it's not my favorite system.
The systems have some similarities but aren't really the same. It has its own unique set of benefits though. In all I like it the most so far because it provides all the stuff I like about a hybrid sub: access to dlc, stipend of game cash, boosts to xp/gold/progress. It's simple in implementation (not over-monetized) and useful. How good the system is really depends on how DLC is built and sold.
You have to be fair and say that comaprison "you dont get all that stuff for FREE in LOTRO" while "you get all this stuff for FREE in ESO if you pay 60$" is...well...not really a comparison.
You will never be able (as far as things are right now) to get that cash shop horsey/DLC/expansion in ESO for free, you will HAVE to pay while in LOTRO you can, for instance.
Both are good and just a matter of preference, but when you campre stuff be sure you are actually doing it fairly. From a strictly financial standpoint LOTRO is better deal. Its completely another matter if you prefer doing this one way or the other, or if you prefer one game over another.
You can read the rest of it yourself and probably make sense of it...
As to your hissy fit over my use of the word "free" for ESO... I'll go right back and edit it to "not-subbed" just for you and other literally minded people determined to find something to bitch about.
And you forgot to mention that all that "on the right" is gone with single month of sub for 15$ forever.
I can make sense of it, i wrote a guide for new players on Turbine forums when LOTRO went free how to least painfully unlock everything. In LOTRO FREE means FREE, not 60$ "free", because all you can do with ESO for FREE is read about it.
AND on top of that you can earn unlimited Turbine points by grinding and literally unlock EVERYTHING for free. Real free, no $$ involved.
Its funny how lot of people on this site dont get that if you oay for something its NOT free lol
I've played LotRO a really long time and I have to agree with Iselin. You do lose out on stuff when you drop your VIP. You lose some character and account perks like the wardrobe slots, character slot and such. You do get to keep some perks but not for newly created characters. You do lose out on access to some DLC too, but some DLC you don't get access to unless you buy the xpac. I like the LotRO system okay, but I think they monetize way too much stuff (fast travel, LI slots, relic unslotting, LI legacies, etc etc). It's not a big deal, but it's not my favorite system.
The systems have some similarities but aren't really the same. It has its own unique set of benefits though. In all I like it the most so far because it provides all the stuff I like about a hybrid sub: access to dlc, stipend of game cash, boosts to xp/gold/progress. It's simple in implementation (not over-monetized) and useful. How good the system is really depends on how DLC is built and sold.
You have to be fair and say that comaprison "you dont get all that stuff for FREE in LOTRO" while "you get all this stuff for FREE in ESO if you pay 60$" is...well...not really a comparison.
You will never be able (as far as things are right now) to get that cash shop horsey/DLC/expansion in ESO for free, you will HAVE to pay while in LOTRO you can, for instance.
Both are good and just a matter of preference, but when you campre stuff be sure you are actually doing it fairly. From a strictly financial standpoint LOTRO is better deal. Its completely another matter if you prefer doing this one way or the other, or if you prefer one game over another.
LOTRO free and premium accounts crippled... ESO no-sub accounts not crippled... what's unfair about that simple comparison?
Yes, we know LOTRO is F2P and ESO is B2P... hence the difference and Turbine's greater need to put pressure on free players to buy other stuff.. I've played both and like both... it wasn't me throwing hissy fits and bending the truth to try to make some weird point.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Holyavenger1 Any words on the box price changing? That's the biggest entry barrier to play imo and the reason I didn't give that game another try after beta.
Definitely not changing box price on Steam, retail of official site any time soon. You can get it for under $30 at key resellers right now. Incidentally, that means your B2P actually starts now as all game code currently include 30-days of game time too.
"MMORPG.com: While being an ESO Plus member, we’ll have access to all the DLC content that is released for free. Does this include any future expansions should ESO ever have them?
A: When you are a Plus member, you get access to all the DLC that is available when you are a member. So over time you’ll get access to more and more areas by being a member."
Is it me? Or did he just totally dodge the question? lol.
Originally posted by MrMelGibson "MMORPG.com: While being an ESO Plus member, we’ll have access to all the DLC content that is released for free. Does this include any future expansions should ESO ever have them?
A: When you are a Plus member, you get access to all the DLC that is available when you are a member. So over time you’ll get access to more and more areas by being a member."
Is it me? Or did he just totally dodge the question? lol.
No, it's not you. He totally did.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"Freedom to play and pay how you want! Because before we said fuck you and told you that you needed to sub to pay, but that didn't work out so well for us : /"
Though I'm not complaining, I'll probably pick up a box on sale at some point.
Its actually a double fuc you because you aren't really free to play and pay how you want because if you don't pay, you don't get any of the new updates which will be branded as DLC. Its offering a choice without really offering a choice.
The Pizza crust is free, but the sauce, cheese and other toppings cost money.
Not saying it should be free, I hate F2P games, I hate the BS companies pull like this even more though. Call it what it is, a B2P game that is also a subscription paytrap. Possibly a model that is actually worse straight up Freemium F2P because you have to cough up money to fall into the trap!
Subs are only renting the content. Someone who would rather not pay $15 per month and would rather just pay for the new content is actually buying the content. Subbers are renting it.
See the difference? Personally, I'd rather buy the content. Trust me when I say this, they're not going to release $180 worth of playable content every year. $15x12=$180.
In a year, they've released 1 zone, 2 vet dungeons, a 4-man arena, and 3 12-man raids. That is no where near $180 worth of content.
Future content (not cosmetic and convenience items) can be bought in the crown store.
Does anyone else see the issue here?
So... if McDonald's decides they're going to give you a cheeseburger every month for free, you're going to see an issue because you had to pay for them when they weren't free?
Past sub value = you got to play the game when a sub was required... the 100 crowns are just a bonus.
That isn't the point I'm getting at.
These crowns buy you future DLC. The value of a new sub will afford them DLC while past subs will not.
If I don't spend another dime once its B2P then someone comes along and spends the same exact amount of money as I did in the past, they will also get several future DLC's included in that price. Zen kept subbers on by advertising this content for them.
I'm not worried about access, I'm worried that the money I've spent is being devalued.
Future content (not cosmetic and convenience items) can be bought in the crown store.
Does anyone else see the issue here?
So... if McDonald's decides they're going to give you a cheeseburger every month for free, you're going to see an issue because you had to pay for them when they weren't free?
Past sub value = you got to play the game when a sub was required... the 100 crowns are just a bonus.
That isn't the point I'm getting at.
These crowns buy you future DLC. The value of a new sub will afford them DLC while past subs will not.
If I don't spend another dime once its B2P then someone comes along and spends the same exact amount of money as I did in the past, they will also get several future DLC's included in that price. Zen kept subbers on by advertising this content for them.
I'm not worried about access, I'm worried that the money I've spent is being devalued.
I understand your perspective but that's not the way value and commerce work. When something changes price there is no entitlement to a refund or price adjustment for those who paid the old price.
The old cost of ESO was the box price + a monthly sub and if you wanted to play, that's what you paid. All the monthly sub got you was the ability to play for a month and not one single thing more than that.
The new price is just the box price. And in addition to that, if you want to sub they will give you some value for that sub, namely the 10% boosts, 1500 crowns and access to any DLC. That's what $15 a month gets you now that a sub is no longer required.
And sorry but no, subbers were not kept on to play future content. They were there presumably because the $15 was worth it for them to play the content that was already there. Anyone who was just there for future content should have just canceled and come back if and when the content they were interested in got added... many did just that,
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It's TSW model. It's buy to play and you can buy DLC when it's out. The optional sub gives you enough points to buy them. There currency exchange system in place, the cash shop is totally insulated from the in-game economy.
My FFXIV ARR referral code for new EU accounts: 5JPF7ZQ3 Step into the amazing world of Eorzea! Use this reference code on a new account and we'll both get goodies for it!
Future content (not cosmetic and convenience items) can be bought in the crown store.
Does anyone else see the issue here?
So... if McDonald's decides they're going to give you a cheeseburger every month for free, you're going to see an issue because you had to pay for them when they weren't free?
Past sub value = you got to play the game when a sub was required... the 100 crowns are just a bonus.
That isn't the point I'm getting at.
These crowns buy you future DLC. The value of a new sub will afford them DLC while past subs will not.
If I don't spend another dime once its B2P then someone comes along and spends the same exact amount of money as I did in the past, they will also get several future DLC's included in that price. Zen kept subbers on by advertising this content for them.
I'm not worried about access, I'm worried that the money I've spent is being devalued.
I understand your perspective but that's not the way value and commerce work. When something changes price there is no entitlement to a refund or price adjustment for those who paid the old price.
The old cost of ESO was the box price + a monthly sub and if you wanted to play, that's what you paid. All the monthly sub got you was the ability to play for a month and not one single thing more than that.
The new price is just the box price. And in addition to that, if you want to sub they will give you some value for that sub, namely the 10% boosts, 1500 crowns and access to any DLC. That's what $15 a month gets you now that a sub is no longer required.
And sorry but no, subbers were not kept on to play future content. They were there presumably because the $15 was worth it for them to play the content that was already there. Anyone who was just there for future content should have just canceled and come back if and when the content they were interested in got added... many did just that,
As far as subbers staying on, I am going by what people have said on forums. They kept subbing because they believed it would help improve the game. It took a while before the game was even worthy of a sub. Zen should have been using that money to develop the content. Instead they are using it on cosmetic junk and holding that content behind a pay wall. Content that could have already been released. How long did they keep Tamriel Unlimited under wraps while they kept advertising spell crafting, the imperial city and other zones. Why would they do that unless they knew it was dirty.
Also I'm not talking about being legally fair. I'm talking about showing no loyalty to your past subscribers. Dirty business is what they are doing. A slap in the face to the people that supported the game.
Your stance sounds like Zen's. Stern and by the book, strictly business. It is too painfully obvious suits run this game not developers. Which is normally the case, but when its obvious that means they have disconnected from their customers. That is why I lost faith in the games future.
There are already comments by Zen strongly suggesting that PvP won't be part of the Justice system. I'd imagine that is because it will be free so the suits won't see a quick enough return. The game will wither to a shadow of their promises because it is strangled by strict business.
Future content (not cosmetic and convenience items) can be bought in the crown store.
Does anyone else see the issue here?
So... if McDonald's decides they're going to give you a cheeseburger every month for free, you're going to see an issue because you had to pay for them when they weren't free?
Past sub value = you got to play the game when a sub was required... the 100 crowns are just a bonus.
That isn't the point I'm getting at.
These crowns buy you future DLC. The value of a new sub will afford them DLC while past subs will not.
If I don't spend another dime once its B2P then someone comes along and spends the same exact amount of money as I did in the past, they will also get several future DLC's included in that price. Zen kept subbers on by advertising this content for them.
I'm not worried about access, I'm worried that the money I've spent is being devalued.
I understand your perspective but that's not the way value and commerce work. When something changes price there is no entitlement to a refund or price adjustment for those who paid the old price.
The old cost of ESO was the box price + a monthly sub and if you wanted to play, that's what you paid. All the monthly sub got you was the ability to play for a month and not one single thing more than that.
The new price is just the box price. And in addition to that, if you want to sub they will give you some value for that sub, namely the 10% boosts, 1500 crowns and access to any DLC. That's what $15 a month gets you now that a sub is no longer required.
And sorry but no, subbers were not kept on to play future content. They were there presumably because the $15 was worth it for them to play the content that was already there. Anyone who was just there for future content should have just canceled and come back if and when the content they were interested in got added... many did just that,
As Iselin says all your (Ides385's) sub bought you was the ability to play whilst you were subbed. You might feel Zenimax misrepresented what you would get but to that they would say that if you carry on paying them $15 a month nothing will change; whatever carrot you thought they were dangling before you they will continue to dangle.
I thought Blizzard made it very clear when they took a content holiday that however entitled you, as a subscriber, may feel nothing is guaranteed.
And the 100 crowns .... a marketing tactic. A tempter, think food sample. Oh I have some crowns better sign up for the cash shop and spend them right away. *(%$&£^£^ I haven't enough better buy some more crowns.
And the crowns you get as a subscriber? They may or may not be enough to purchase future DLC; as Z keep saying nothing is decided. Until they get around to detailing the DLC though it is all moot - just "carrots on a stick" if you like - maybe they will decide they need to finish CS first (which presumably would be a "free" systems patch).
IN all honesty for consoles, i would just be going free and buy the DLC's i liked on pc. I also dont mind paying for ESO and XBL seeing how my XBL is 50 a year and ESO is 14 a month. Sadly same with PSN, MS and PS did not want to wave the fee for ESO so sadly we have to pay THEM + ESO if we want membership. I am sure the company attempted everything they could before giving up.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Also I'm not talking about being legally fair. I'm talking about showing no loyalty to your past subscribers. Dirty business is what they are doing. A slap in the face to the people that supported the game.
Your stance sounds like Zen's. Stern and by the book, strictly business. It is too painfully obvious suits run this game not developers. Which is normally the case, but when its obvious that means they have disconnected from their customers. That is why I lost faith in the games future.
There are also people in the official forums lobbying for sub-only forums and all kinds of other sub-only perks. I don't share their attitude nor misguided sense of entitled superiority.
I'm just realistic. I know what I'm paying for and don't expect extra considerations for loyalty. And when they gift me something for my "loyalty" as a promotion, like all the pets and the upcoming mount I don't look at the gift and piss on them because I'm entitled to a better gift...it's a gift.
The 100 crowns per month subbed are just another gift. And the only two reasons they're doing that is to 1) get you used to having and spending crowns and 2) as a perk to entice players who let their sub lapse to come back.
They don't owe me anything and I don't owe them anything - that's the way I like it and that makes it a lot easier for me to enjoy the game.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
And you forgot to mention that all that "on the right" is gone with single month of sub for 15$ forever.
I can make sense of it, i wrote a guide for new players on Turbine forums when LOTRO went free how to least painfully unlock everything. In LOTRO FREE means FREE, not 60$ "free", because all you can do with ESO for FREE is read about it.
AND on top of that you can earn unlimited Turbine points by grinding and literally unlock EVERYTHING for free. Real free, no $$ involved.
Its funny how lot of people on this site dont get that if you oay for something its NOT free lol
Its actually a double fuc you because you aren't really free to play and pay how you want because if you don't pay, you don't get any of the new updates which will be branded as DLC. Its offering a choice without really offering a choice.
The Pizza crust is free, but the sauce, cheese and other toppings cost money.
Not saying it should be free, I hate F2P games, I hate the BS companies pull like this even more though. Call it what it is, a B2P game that is also a subscription paytrap. Possibly a model that is actually worse straight up Freemium F2P because you have to cough up money to fall into the trap!
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
The same goes for FFXIV console players. I'm not following your logic. Zenimax isn't screwing those console players, their respective console companies are. You can't expect Zenimax to not charge players a monthly subscription if they want the same services provided to subscription players on the PC.
Also, the console online service fees are insanely cheap at <~= $50 a year.
an exclusive and pre-translated? Just givin' er 110%
Right now I am on a break from MMo's so that Mar.17 will be all the more sweeeeeeter
For a brand new console player TESO is just another B2P game. That is the message Z want to push. I like the allusion to a subscription honeytrap above though!
And - we can assume - that they are going to market it as a B2P game. No way are they going to suggest that you need to pay a sub.
And on day 1 - no DLC - so new console players will have access to everything.
And that is why there is no "restrictions" in place. Can you imagine Z launching TESO with "restrictions"? Buy TESO it is B2P but unless you pay a sub you won't: be able to use char, you will have 50% less bags, etc. etc. Anyone think that this would go down well? I doubt it.
Or what about - buy TESO but unless you pay a sub the 10% bonus you won't have access to will make you a second class player? Same deal.
So it is going to come down to the DLC - as and when it releases. How "big" will the DLC be; what will Z charge? One dungeon $1000? Good joke! Two at $50? Don't think so. Then again given the suggestion that they might charge more than $10 for "special" mounts ....
Market forces will operate and other games can be used as a guide: BF4, Titanfall, Destiny and so forth. And Destiny drew complaints that suggest it was pushing the price / content boundary.
Time will tell what value subscribing might have but until there is some DLC, as I have said before, a sub = a $15 spend in the cash shop. And I don't want to see the cash shop as Z's focus. Delusional? Probably.
You can buy DLCs separately, one of the "perks" of sub is that you will have access to all DLCs without buying them, but if you just prefer buying them (and have them forever) without paying sub they say thats an option.
OK, thanks... I thought I was missing something.
You have to be fair and say that comaprison "you dont get all that stuff for FREE in LOTRO" while "you get all this stuff for FREE in ESO if you pay 60$" is...well...not really a comparison.
You will never be able (as far as things are right now) to get that cash shop horsey/DLC/expansion in ESO for free, you will HAVE to pay while in LOTRO you can, for instance.
Both are good and just a matter of preference, but when you campre stuff be sure you are actually doing it fairly. From a strictly financial standpoint LOTRO is better deal. Its completely another matter if you prefer doing this one way or the other, or if you prefer one game over another.
LOTRO free and premium accounts crippled... ESO no-sub accounts not crippled... what's unfair about that simple comparison?
Yes, we know LOTRO is F2P and ESO is B2P... hence the difference and Turbine's greater need to put pressure on free players to buy other stuff.. I've played both and like both... it wasn't me throwing hissy fits and bending the truth to try to make some weird point.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
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A: When you are a Plus member, you get access to all the DLC that is available when you are a member. So over time you’ll get access to more and more areas by being a member."
Is it me? Or did he just totally dodge the question? lol.
No, it's not you. He totally did.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Subs are only renting the content. Someone who would rather not pay $15 per month and would rather just pay for the new content is actually buying the content. Subbers are renting it.
See the difference? Personally, I'd rather buy the content. Trust me when I say this, they're not going to release $180 worth of playable content every year. $15x12=$180.
In a year, they've released 1 zone, 2 vet dungeons, a 4-man arena, and 3 12-man raids. That is no where near $180 worth of content.
That isn't the point I'm getting at.
These crowns buy you future DLC. The value of a new sub will afford them DLC while past subs will not.
If I don't spend another dime once its B2P then someone comes along and spends the same exact amount of money as I did in the past, they will also get several future DLC's included in that price. Zen kept subbers on by advertising this content for them.
I'm not worried about access, I'm worried that the money I've spent is being devalued.
I understand your perspective but that's not the way value and commerce work. When something changes price there is no entitlement to a refund or price adjustment for those who paid the old price.
The old cost of ESO was the box price + a monthly sub and if you wanted to play, that's what you paid. All the monthly sub got you was the ability to play for a month and not one single thing more than that.
The new price is just the box price. And in addition to that, if you want to sub they will give you some value for that sub, namely the 10% boosts, 1500 crowns and access to any DLC. That's what $15 a month gets you now that a sub is no longer required.
And sorry but no, subbers were not kept on to play future content. They were there presumably because the $15 was worth it for them to play the content that was already there. Anyone who was just there for future content should have just canceled and come back if and when the content they were interested in got added... many did just that,
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
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As far as subbers staying on, I am going by what people have said on forums. They kept subbing because they believed it would help improve the game. It took a while before the game was even worthy of a sub. Zen should have been using that money to develop the content. Instead they are using it on cosmetic junk and holding that content behind a pay wall. Content that could have already been released. How long did they keep Tamriel Unlimited under wraps while they kept advertising spell crafting, the imperial city and other zones. Why would they do that unless they knew it was dirty.
Also I'm not talking about being legally fair. I'm talking about showing no loyalty to your past subscribers. Dirty business is what they are doing. A slap in the face to the people that supported the game.
Your stance sounds like Zen's. Stern and by the book, strictly business. It is too painfully obvious suits run this game not developers. Which is normally the case, but when its obvious that means they have disconnected from their customers. That is why I lost faith in the games future.
There are already comments by Zen strongly suggesting that PvP won't be part of the Justice system. I'd imagine that is because it will be free so the suits won't see a quick enough return. The game will wither to a shadow of their promises because it is strangled by strict business.
As Iselin says all your (Ides385's) sub bought you was the ability to play whilst you were subbed. You might feel Zenimax misrepresented what you would get but to that they would say that if you carry on paying them $15 a month nothing will change; whatever carrot you thought they were dangling before you they will continue to dangle.
I thought Blizzard made it very clear when they took a content holiday that however entitled you, as a subscriber, may feel nothing is guaranteed.
And the 100 crowns .... a marketing tactic. A tempter, think food sample. Oh I have some crowns better sign up for the cash shop and spend them right away. *(%$&£^£^ I haven't enough better buy some more crowns.
And the crowns you get as a subscriber? They may or may not be enough to purchase future DLC; as Z keep saying nothing is decided. Until they get around to detailing the DLC though it is all moot - just "carrots on a stick" if you like - maybe they will decide they need to finish CS first (which presumably would be a "free" systems patch).
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There are also people in the official forums lobbying for sub-only forums and all kinds of other sub-only perks. I don't share their attitude nor misguided sense of entitled superiority.
I'm just realistic. I know what I'm paying for and don't expect extra considerations for loyalty. And when they gift me something for my "loyalty" as a promotion, like all the pets and the upcoming mount I don't look at the gift and piss on them because I'm entitled to a better gift...it's a gift.
The 100 crowns per month subbed are just another gift. And the only two reasons they're doing that is to 1) get you used to having and spending crowns and 2) as a perk to entice players who let their sub lapse to come back.
They don't owe me anything and I don't owe them anything - that's the way I like it and that makes it a lot easier for me to enjoy the game.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED