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[Column] General: The MOBA Conundrum
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
When the original Defense of the Ancients rose to popularity as a mod for Warcraft III, I had already moved on from Blizzard’s RTS to the next hotness (probably Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time). Hence, it wasn’t until many years later that I became aware of DotA in its modern iteration, particularly as a reference point for new MOBAs like League of Legends, Heroes of Newerth, Demigod, Smite, and of course, DotA 2.
Read more of Som Pourfarzaneh's The MOBA Conundrum.
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So you don't really want to put the time in to be good, but want good results....
Some times you can find "for fun" casual sign up groups on a game's forums. And those people will do what they can to organize themselves to play together.
You'll likely end up battling against people who are playing competitively, but you won't have to deal with them on your team.
I dunno if this helps.
He isn't asking to be good without putting in the time, he is asking if there is a place for casuals in MOBA's.
And as a casual player, I have to say its hard to justify. The communities are extremely toxic, which doesn't make a new player feel welcome or like they want to bother to get better.
And worse they pride themselves on their toxicity
Explorer 73% Achiever 53% Socializer 53% Killer 20%
This isn't exactly what was said in the article. It talks about a real problem in the MOBA genre, the overly steep learning curve.
Any other videogame I have played throughout my life has taught you along the way how to play the game. Then comes the moment when the game really unleashes, and you are better prepared to face the challenge. MOBAs have a ton of moving parts, and unless you're playing in a premade group (which is really the only way to play a MOBA), you're going to wind up having a mostly horrible time.
The individual learning curves aren't bad. Lane management, group composition, learning a build (including what items to buy and when) and of course just learning to play in general. However, most MOBAs throw you into the frying pan out the gate as they all expect you to have played MOBAs since the original DoTA. Couple this with the notoriously toxic communities that MOBAs tend to have, and you have the article that is written.
MOBA is a genre where it tends to eat its own young (aka noobs) and then wonders why the genre has a poor reputation.
Heroes of the Storm does alleviate many of the problems with learning curve in a moba. Since you can focus on a character and don't have to worry about someone else choosing it. The curve doesn't seem to be as steep either, since teams level up as a group so that a noob doesn't get left behind. However, there is still a huge difference between someone who knows how to play and someone who doesn't, which is good. At the same time, the community really varies. I've played matches with some awesome people and then some other matches I wonder if I am playing DoTA2 or LoL.
The neat thing about MOBAs is that they are one of the most perfect genres for MLG type of gaming, since there is a tremendous focus on individual skill. The problem with MOBAs is that many seem to act like they are anywhere near the level of a "pro" during an everyday match.
Mostly it's not about getting good but rather stopping being awful. Even if one doesn't have the mechanical skill or knowledge of all heroes, learning what you should be doing at each point in the game and how to anticipate and react to various events will make it so you have fun and get yelled at less.
There's a New Zealander with a LoL school video series who explains it well. You have three levels of play, your A game where you're awesome and make pro plays, your B game which is your average play and your C game which is you fucking up. You can't just decide to play more often at your A level, so the only way to improve on average is to spend less time playing your C game.
TLDR; Don't worry about getting good, just stop being bad.
This.
As with any multiplayer game, the best way to 'enjoy it casually' is to team up with friends, or join a group of like-minded people.
You talk about the learning curve like it's a roadblock 'to the fun part'. I've heard this from numerous people, but there's something that you need to keep in mind. These games are first and foremost games of strategy. It's like chess with fantasy heroes.
So, like chess, you can play it in a way in which you ignore most of the strategy involved. And that's fine. You can still have fun with it. But these games have a good amount of depth to the gameplay. Things like last hitting, itemization, leveling priorities, objectives, etc. etc. etc. are all part of the strategy involved. Skipping them to get to the fun part may work best for you, but you are actively ignoring large chunks of the gameplay because it requires too much effort on your part.
Keep in mind that you are going to experience players with a wide variety of skill / game comprehension. As with any online game you will sometimes run into jerks who give you a hard time, but that's true of all games. Best to just ignore them and move on. However this doesn't automatically mean that everyone who criticizes you ingame is a jerk, or wrong. Sometimes people have valid complaints you need to be aware of. Such as buying an item that doesn't make sense for your character or build, not paying attention to your surroundings, etc.
However, if you're determined to be content with not familiarizing yourself with these games strategies or not paying attention, then you also need to be content with knowing that you winning is going to be primarily out of your hands. This also affects the other players on your team, so you need to find people who are also okay with that reality. For some that is fine, for those more well versed in MOBAs it's boring and defeats the purpose of playing such games.
There absolutely are places for casuals in MOBAs. Hell, all of the well known MOBAs have casual game modes that are more popular than the competitive ones. Things like ARAM / Assault are 100% casual game modes.
That said, there is a massive difference between 'being a casual player' and refusing to learn, or use your brain while playing the game. These are team based strategy games. Your decisions affect those around you, and it's extremely selfish to expect your random teammates to be okay with every choice you make.
It is the internet, there are asshats, but even in League (largely considered one of the more toxic communities) you will find people willing to help you if you ask for it, and mention you are new. The problem is, most people don't do this. They adopt a mentality of 'i'm a casual player, i don't care enough, deal with it'. And that's not okay.
You don't need to be a pro player, or in diamond / platinum leagues. You don't need to have a perfect build, or be carrying every game. You just need to be conscious of the fact that you're playing a game of strategy, and one which your decisions affect those around you. You don't queue up to play a game of chess because you like kicking pieces around. You don't play MOBAs if you aren't willing to learn at least the basics of how the game works.
....you're welcome.
Sorry I have to disagree with your perspective. In any team game you always have to deal with various levels of skill. There is absolutely no excuse for anyone to ever get upset with someone just because their skill level is not up to yours. It is a GAME and you are supposed to have fun at it and so is everyone else on your team. The trouble with MOBA's is they are populated with a large number of poor losers who cannot grasp the fact that doing your best is the point, winning is something that cannot always be achieved.
The difference is that most other genres have been watered down through decades of handholding. They're simple enough that any child can play it.
By comparison look at games like chess, there are fairly easily understood base rules, but the learning curve comes from learning how to apply those rules to different levels of strategy; and then using that knowledge to predict your opponent.
MOBAs are very similar in that way. Take smite for example, you can learn everything you need to know about the base mechanics in about 10minutes. What buffs the game has, laning mechanics, how much gold you get per minion. Where most new players struggle is the mass amount of items and god skills.
HotS does attempt to solve this problem, but it does so by stripping away most of the complexity & strategy these games offer. As i've compared in another thread, it's essentially taking chess, and making it checkers. Sure it's fun enough, but the intricacy is gone. You still get that feel of knocking around pieces, but it's very shallow.
- I honestly don't think the answer is to water these games down. There may be some presentation changes that can be made. And some of the recommendation (honor) systems have had a positive effect on player toxicity. However, at a certain point, people need to take the initiative to learn to play the game. There is a plethora of resources available, and people willing to help if you ask for it. I wasn't very active in MOBAs until maybe a year ago when I started getting into SMITE. I was awful when I first started, but I took it upon myself to learn the game I was playing. I wouldn't dare to play an MMO and expect to beat every raid without understanding any of the mechanics. MOBAs are no different, there's just more emotions flying around because most people care about winning.
to some the "fun" part of the game is winning. its like any competitive game, you go to your local basketball court and trust me people will get mad at you if you keep screwing up.
MOBAs are competitive and very team based all it takes is one person to screw up over and over before the whole game gets out of hand.
There is a difference between getting mad at someone for being unskilled, and being annoyed at someone for constantly doing stupid things.
For example, when I play a MOBA I don't care if you are bad. If you miss a lot that sucks, but we all have bad games. If you are building a really bad item build, I may suggest some changes that would improve your effectiveness (which sometimes people listen to, and other times people get defensive about). What I do care about is if I have someone who is say level 5, trying to solo 3 lvl 10s by himself, and constantly getting himself killed as a result.
That is stupidity, and that kind of thing happens a lot in these games. Will I start raging at the guy? Usually no, but I will ask them to stop doing it. Or suggest that they farm some more so they can get on a more even power lvl to the opponents they are fighting.
Doing you're best is definitely a noble goal, and the best focus to avoid stressing yourself out. However that isn't the objective of the game. The objective is to win, just as the objective of an RPG is to beat the story. You may have your own personal goals, but those are indeed separate. And, well, personal to you.
Let me re-emphasize that these are first and foremost games of strategy. Teamwork and tactics are very important to these games. Not just personal skill. Working with your team to achieve a common goal (winning) is a big part of the game, even if you end up failing. Playing for yourself is counter-productive to these games, because again they are team games. You win as a team, you lose as a team.
I've never said raging at people is okay, but there is a certain level of understanding people should have if they are playing at the same level. If I que up for a top-ranked league match, I do not want to be dealing with someone who doesn't know what the jungle buffs do, or how the lanes work. If I queue up for a low lvl game with some friends, I fully expect most people to be learning the game still.
Well said, I think this pic kind of sums up the point clear enough, if not in a bit absurd way, lol.
I guess HotS is the MOBA for casuals and Blizz hit a niche with it. Only thing to add to your post might be that as a new player in addition to not getting left behind you don't get overwhelmed by 1000 items but learn the different talents during your first ~5 games because they unlock as the char levels.
The game might not be a choice for competetive play but imho the best MOBA you can play as a casual grp. And with the chat being limited to the team you don't even have to deal with toxic enemies.I played LoL and was never really any good but I just played in the low level matches. Always found the last hit part kinda difficult to get down pat. Heroes of the Storm might just be the game for me.
I think Blizzard is going to do it again get the casuals with this game in MOBA.
OP, how much SMITE did you play? If you're looking for casual, steer clear of Conquest. Arena and Assault are for us casuals. You'd have to go full retard in order to get yelled at in Arena or Assault. You get the occasional 'pro' there, but for the most part, it's a good crowd.
"I didn’t like the steep learning curve that sets apart casual from hardcore players, and feeling as though to really become competitive at the game, I’d have to spend hundreds of hours making micro-adjustments to strategies and understanding different builds."
Is there a sport that this can't be said of?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
HoTS is definitely the closest you'll get. But I imagine that if you try to play in ranked games your going to see as much abuse as in other MOBAs.
I have no interest in playing a MOBA to the point of being elite, I just play co-op in HOTS for now just long enough for dailies. I prefer ARPGs so HOTS is just a minor diversion.
You're on, Mike!
Not a tremendous amount, and that was during beta. I'm not even sure if all of those modes existed at that point. I might dip in and try it again!
And yeah, if you're looking at it like a sport, that works.
This. The same could be said for MMO dungeons or PvP, but at least in those cases, I can fall back on other content if I don't have a good pug experience.
I love mobas! They have really cleaned up MMOs since their inception. A very much needed genre
Hmm, just this short thread confirms my decision to never, ever play a MOBA.
Can't take abuse from people that in real life I would stomp into the ground for speaking to me that way
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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