Originally posted by Allein Usually being given severance goes along with being laid off. As we really don't know the reasoning behind each individual being let go (performance, salary too high, no longer needed) not sure how you know either way.
Daybreak is not calling these people back... they are Fired. (A Lay Off is when you are let go because of no work available & if/when that work picks back up, you are called back)
That is not what the terms mean. Fired is when you are terminated due to performance or other issues related to you. Laid off is when you are terminated due to issues related to the job. Neither term indicates an opportunity (or lack thereof) to return.
It seems over the years, the meaning has changed:
Laidoff workers or displaced workers refers to workers who have lost or left their jobs because their employer has closed or moved, there was insufficient work for them to do, or their position or shift was abolished.[3][4]
Originally the term layoff referred exclusively to a temporary interruption in work, as when factory work cyclically falls off. The term however nowadays usually means the permanent elimination of a position, requiring the addition of "temporary" to specify the original meaning.
Originally posted by Allein Usually being given severance goes along with being laid off. As we really don't know the reasoning behind each individual being let go (performance, salary too high, no longer needed) not sure how you know either way.
Daybreak is not calling these people back... they are Fired. (A Lay Off is when you are let go because of no work available & if/when that work picks back up, you are called back)
That is not what the terms mean. Fired is when you are terminated due to performance or other issues related to you. Laid off is when you are terminated due to issues related to the job. Neither term indicates an opportunity (or lack thereof) to return.
It seems over the years, the meaning has changed:
Laidoff workers or displaced workers refers to workers who have lost or left their jobs because their employer has closed or moved, there was insufficient work for them to do, or their position or shift was abolished.[3][4]
Originally the term layoff referred exclusively to a temporary interruption in work, as when factory work cyclically falls off. The term however nowadays usually means the permanent elimination of a position, requiring the addition of "temporary" to specify the original meaning.
What you linked to also indicates there is no guarantee or even assumption of return.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
But the difference used to be the possibility. It's more an industrial age usage of the word, and I don't think it's ever meant the same thing when it comes to software development.
Originally posted by adam_nox But the difference used to be the possibility. It's more an industrial age usage of the word, and I don't think it's ever meant the same thing when it comes to software development.
Hmmm... interesting. Did not know that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by adam_nox But the difference used to be the possibility. It's more an industrial age usage of the word, and I don't think it's ever meant the same thing when it comes to software development.
Hmmm... interesting. Did not know that.
A blast from an earlier, more industrial age to deal with cyclical downtime factories need to go through. When I was growing up, our town had a lot of heavy industry supporting the car building business in Detroit and this was common place.
Many of the factories in town took planned down times or "lay-offs", either for the holiday season or in mid summer in order to do plant maintenance. Also in the construction industry once winter really set in, most laid their people off for many months.
This was mostly important because people who were laid off could collect unemployment until the day came they were hired back, especially important for the 3 -4 month winter lay offs. People who were "fired" generally could not collect unemployment. (now days people can collect unemployment usually even if fired, especially if it is without cause like a layoff is)
The more modern day usage is more as a more polite form of dismissed, fired, let go, terminated, meaning rarely are people brought back, especially in something like the IT or finance industries. Guess it still might help in terms of collecting unemployment in some states.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Good info to know. Maybe it's time to take some of these companies to task on their terminology.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Unfortunately, this could mean that Columbus Nova doesn't have the funds to keep EQN in the direction that the team wanted.
I am more to believe these cuts where neccecary to avoid complete shutdown of SOE/Daybreak as a gaming company.
I am even sure these plans where already presented to Sony, I mean did nobody feel it was wierd to see a A-tittle company going the same route like indie/kickstarter games with their founder packs. sure some blamed it on greed. I just thought oh oh not a good sign...
Then there's all the legal papers, especialy with certian possitions within a company it could take months sometimes even years to legally fire someone. Unless there is a signed agreement from both parties that could speed up the procces.
"Why is Smedly not gone?" ....Somehow I feel he might have been the one that has saved "Daybreak"
An Investment company? Well hello Cash Shop and Tiered loot.
What other features can they add, hmm, battlegrounds and lets go ahead and have warlocks, Paladins, I also think the game needs Pandas. Oooh more grinding.
Unfortunately, this could mean that Columbus Nova doesn't have the funds to keep EQN in the direction that the team wanted.
I am more to believe these cuts where neccecary to avoid complete shutdown of SOE/Daybreak as a gaming company.
I am even sure these plans where already presented to Sony, I mean did nobody feel it was wierd to see a A-tittle company going the same route like indie/kickstarter games with their founder packs. sure some blamed it on greed. I just thought oh oh not a good sign...
Then there's all the legal papers, especialy with certian possitions within a company it could take months sometimes even years to legally fire someone. Unless there is a signed agreement from both parties that could speed up the procces.
"Why is Smedly not gone?" ....Somehow I feel he might have been the one that has saved "Daybreak"
Even the founders of Story Bricks stated that had they managed to acquire SoE, they would have axed deep as well. The company is clearly in need of cuts.
Originally posted by Kajidourden inb4 nanfoodle has some reason why everything is going to be okay.
It's just a flesh wound!
Odd as this is my first post in this thread and its just to say thanks for the chuckle =-) Like many here I think the cuts were needed. Its common in this industry to lay off between projects and SoE just kept everyone. I dont know any other game company that the norm to be working there 10-15-20 years. ((shrugs)) Only way it will be all ok is if DGC pulls it together and work as a team. This situation they are in is not easy to recover from. I hope they pull it off as an EQ fan but even I know its not in their favor but they have some good people working there I have been fans of for a long time and I am rooting for them.
Originally posted by Kajidourden inb4 nanfoodle has some reason why everything is going to be okay.
It's just a flesh wound!
Odd as this is my first post in this thread and its just to say thanks for the chuckle =-) Like many here I think the cuts were needed. Its common in this industry to lay off between projects and SoE just kept everyone. I dont know any other game company that the norm to be working there 10-15-20 years. ((shrugs)) Only way it will be all ok is if DGC pulls it together and work as a team. This situation they are in is not easy to recover from. I hope they pull it off as an EQ fan but even I know its not in their favor but they have some good people working there I have been fans of for a long time and I am rooting for them.
SOE has done quite a lot of layoffs. In 2011 they shut down 3 studios and laid off 1/3 of their work force. In 2013 they did another round of layoffs. And now these layoffs. The earlier layoffs was because they shut down quite a lot of games and needed fewer people, this one was only about cutting costs.
I know that they still got good people but I don't consider them miracle workers and that's what's needed to make their everquest next vision come true.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Originally posted by Kajidourden inb4 nanfoodle has some reason why everything is going to be okay.
It's just a flesh wound!
Odd as this is my first post in this thread and its just to say thanks for the chuckle =-) Like many here I think the cuts were needed. Its common in this industry to lay off between projects and SoE just kept everyone. I dont know any other game company that the norm to be working there 10-15-20 years. ((shrugs)) Only way it will be all ok is if DGC pulls it together and work as a team. This situation they are in is not easy to recover from. I hope they pull it off as an EQ fan but even I know its not in their favor but they have some good people working there I have been fans of for a long time and I am rooting for them.
SOE has done quite a lot of layoffs. In 2011 they shut down 3 studios and laid off 1/3 of their work force. In 2013 they did another round of layoffs. And now these layoffs. The earlier layoffs was because they shut down quite a lot of games and needed fewer people, this one was only about cutting costs.
I know that they still got good people but I don't consider them miracle workers and that's what's needed to make their everquest next vision come true.
For half a decade Sony has been writing off the SOE losses as business as usual. Forcing them to balance the budget and only devote resources to profitable investments is a good thing. Games like EQ, EQ2 that have been profitable for 10 + years were not getting the resources because of this crap they were spending money elsewhere instead of putting it back into what made the company to begin with.
Originally posted by Kajidourden inb4 nanfoodle has some reason why everything is going to be okay.
It's just a flesh wound!
Odd as this is my first post in this thread and its just to say thanks for the chuckle =-) Like many here I think the cuts were needed. Its common in this industry to lay off between projects and SoE just kept everyone. I dont know any other game company that the norm to be working there 10-15-20 years. ((shrugs)) Only way it will be all ok is if DGC pulls it together and work as a team. This situation they are in is not easy to recover from. I hope they pull it off as an EQ fan but even I know its not in their favor but they have some good people working there I have been fans of for a long time and I am rooting for them.
SOE has done quite a lot of layoffs. In 2011 they shut down 3 studios and laid off 1/3 of their work force. In 2013 they did another round of layoffs. And now these layoffs. The earlier layoffs was because they shut down quite a lot of games and needed fewer people, this one was only about cutting costs.
I know that they still got good people but I don't consider them miracle workers and that's what's needed to make their everquest next vision come true.
For half a decade Sony has been writing off the SOE losses as business as usual. Forcing them to balance the budget and only devote resources to profitable investments is a good thing. Games like EQ, EQ2 that have been profitable for 10 + years were not getting the resources because of this crap they were spending money elsewhere instead of putting it back into what made the company to begin with.
The layoffs in 2011 and 2013 already did the things you described. These cuts involved all their remaining products because they still can't balance the books.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Looks like Daybreak just completed round 2 of the mass layoffs.. It's been reported that 140? have been given their walking papers, effective in April from what I'm reading..
This is really becoming interesting to see what happens to the line up of games this year.. I can't see how you can give each game "LOVE" with so many cuts in personnel.. I'm starting to think it's only a matter of time before we see the next big layoff announcement.. Smed being shown the door? If SOE became this fat and mismanaged under "HIS" rule, then you have to get rid of him, and quickly..
Looks like Daybreak just completed round 2 of the mass layoffs.. It's been reported that 140? have been given their walking papers, effective in April from what I'm reading..
This is really becoming interesting to see what happens to the line up of games this year.. I can't see how you can give each game "LOVE" with so many cuts in personnel.. I'm starting to think it's only a matter of time before we see the next big layoff announcement.. Smed being shown the door? If SOE became this fat and mismanaged under "HIS" rule, then you have to get rid of him, and quickly..
This is interesting, but still doesn't give us any clue as to why CN purchased SOE in the first place. Were they simply raiding a development company for some of its tech (SOEmotes), as has been suggested, or did they really want to get into this market space? Personnel cuts are a byproduct of any buyout / merger scenario. If they are interested in competing in the MMORPG arena, we may have seen the last of the mass layoffs for awhile. If they're just raiding, or bought debt for tax purposes or some other reason we haven't speculated about, then there will be more cuts once CN figures out whatever they wanted.
Smedley, I figure he's safe through the end of the year. My guess is that he's there to facilitate the first year merger plans, whatever they are. After that, I think his history might catch up with him.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Looks like Daybreak just completed round 2 of the mass layoffs.. It's been reported that 140? have been given their walking papers, effective in April from what I'm reading..
This is really becoming interesting to see what happens to the line up of games this year.. I can't see how you can give each game "LOVE" with so many cuts in personnel.. I'm starting to think it's only a matter of time before we see the next big layoff announcement.. Smed being shown the door? If SOE became this fat and mismanaged under "HIS" rule, then you have to get rid of him, and quickly..
If you read the article you would realize its the tally from the first round of layoffs and its only for the san diego office. There is nothing official on how many were laid off in Austin.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Comments
It seems over the years, the meaning has changed:
Laidoff workers or displaced workers refers to workers who have lost or left their jobs because their employer has closed or moved, there was insufficient work for them to do, or their position or shift was abolished.[3][4]
Originally the term layoff referred exclusively to a temporary interruption in work, as when factory work cyclically falls off. The term however nowadays usually means the permanent elimination of a position, requiring the addition of "temporary" to specify the original meaning.
What you linked to also indicates there is no guarantee or even assumption of return.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Hmmm... interesting. Did not know that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
A blast from an earlier, more industrial age to deal with cyclical downtime factories need to go through. When I was growing up, our town had a lot of heavy industry supporting the car building business in Detroit and this was common place.
Many of the factories in town took planned down times or "lay-offs", either for the holiday season or in mid summer in order to do plant maintenance. Also in the construction industry once winter really set in, most laid their people off for many months.
This was mostly important because people who were laid off could collect unemployment until the day came they were hired back, especially important for the 3 -4 month winter lay offs. People who were "fired" generally could not collect unemployment. (now days people can collect unemployment usually even if fired, especially if it is without cause like a layoff is)
The more modern day usage is more as a more polite form of dismissed, fired, let go, terminated, meaning rarely are people brought back, especially in something like the IT or finance industries. Guess it still might help in terms of collecting unemployment in some states.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The term "Lay-Off" is really used inappropriately. It's traditionally been considered cyclical or temporary.
The real term here is called RIF
Reduction In Force
http://labor-employment-law.lawyers.com/rif-or-layoff-what-difference-does-it-make.html
Good info to know. Maybe it's time to take some of these companies to task on their terminology.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
140 workers were let go in San diego. Unknown how many lost their job in Austin.
Source
It's just a flesh wound!
From the article:
According to the company, the job cuts will not impact its current games....
Yeah, because you can cut 140 people out of a couple hundred and nothing will be affected.
Must be the "new math".
That Common core bullshit, lol.
I am more to believe these cuts where neccecary to avoid complete shutdown of SOE/Daybreak as a gaming company.
I am even sure these plans where already presented to Sony, I mean did nobody feel it was wierd to see a A-tittle company going the same route like indie/kickstarter games with their founder packs. sure some blamed it on greed. I just thought oh oh not a good sign...
Then there's all the legal papers, especialy with certian possitions within a company it could take months sometimes even years to legally fire someone. Unless there is a signed agreement from both parties that could speed up the procces.
"Why is Smedly not gone?" ....Somehow I feel he might have been the one that has saved "Daybreak"
An Investment company? Well hello Cash Shop and Tiered loot.
What other features can they add, hmm, battlegrounds and lets go ahead and have warlocks, Paladins, I also think the game needs Pandas. Oooh more grinding.
Even the founders of Story Bricks stated that had they managed to acquire SoE, they would have axed deep as well. The company is clearly in need of cuts.
Odd as this is my first post in this thread and its just to say thanks for the chuckle =-) Like many here I think the cuts were needed. Its common in this industry to lay off between projects and SoE just kept everyone. I dont know any other game company that the norm to be working there 10-15-20 years. ((shrugs)) Only way it will be all ok is if DGC pulls it together and work as a team. This situation they are in is not easy to recover from. I hope they pull it off as an EQ fan but even I know its not in their favor but they have some good people working there I have been fans of for a long time and I am rooting for them.
SOE has done quite a lot of layoffs. In 2011 they shut down 3 studios and laid off 1/3 of their work force. In 2013 they did another round of layoffs. And now these layoffs. The earlier layoffs was because they shut down quite a lot of games and needed fewer people, this one was only about cutting costs.
I know that they still got good people but I don't consider them miracle workers and that's what's needed to make their everquest next vision come true.
For half a decade Sony has been writing off the SOE losses as business as usual. Forcing them to balance the budget and only devote resources to profitable investments is a good thing. Games like EQ, EQ2 that have been profitable for 10 + years were not getting the resources because of this crap they were spending money elsewhere instead of putting it back into what made the company to begin with.
The layoffs in 2011 and 2013 already did the things you described. These cuts involved all their remaining products because they still can't balance the books.
QFT
Looks like Daybreak just completed round 2 of the mass layoffs.. It's been reported that 140? have been given their walking papers, effective in April from what I'm reading..
http://massivelyop.net/2015/03/06/daybreak-layoffs-totaled-140-in-san-diego/ ..
This is really becoming interesting to see what happens to the line up of games this year.. I can't see how you can give each game "LOVE" with so many cuts in personnel.. I'm starting to think it's only a matter of time before we see the next big layoff announcement.. Smed being shown the door? If SOE became this fat and mismanaged under "HIS" rule, then you have to get rid of him, and quickly..
This is interesting, but still doesn't give us any clue as to why CN purchased SOE in the first place. Were they simply raiding a development company for some of its tech (SOEmotes), as has been suggested, or did they really want to get into this market space? Personnel cuts are a byproduct of any buyout / merger scenario. If they are interested in competing in the MMORPG arena, we may have seen the last of the mass layoffs for awhile. If they're just raiding, or bought debt for tax purposes or some other reason we haven't speculated about, then there will be more cuts once CN figures out whatever they wanted.
Smedley, I figure he's safe through the end of the year. My guess is that he's there to facilitate the first year merger plans, whatever they are. After that, I think his history might catch up with him.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If you read the article you would realize its the tally from the first round of layoffs and its only for the san diego office. There is nothing official on how many were laid off in Austin.