As altholic, I love to play all classes and as a male player have never ever played on female character, would feel to much weird. So I hope there will be no gender class lock.
Originally posted by Dorrian If you dont like the gender lock then....... DONT PLAY and stay in WoW we dont need you.
Not Wow, I play ESO and sure ... I will stay away, I dont need gender locked classes.
Only 5 of the 13 are one gender (or no gender, so far). They've recently added the female centaur. 8 genders with male and female as many as most MMO's start with.
People are reading the article and assuming they are all gender locked or that most are gender locked. This is not the case.
Let's look at the 5 that are single or no gender:
1. Stoneborn - a Dwarf like race that, as Cynthia pointed out, can be excused as male only.
2. Elken - a Elk-like race complete with horns. The female model of this might work and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the future.
3. Fae - the lore of this particular Archetype speaks heavily of the female perspective. Female-only is explained in the lore..
4. Minotaur - A bull. I don't see why a female option couldn't be a future stretch goal here.
5. Guinecian - I'm not even sure this race has a gender at all, to be honest. This one could go either way.
That's it. All of the rest have both male and female options.
If the lore says gender lock, then by all means...gender-lock the shit out of the game! FFS you are crying out for a different mmo, and now with this apporach you cant stop your tears..come on!
Originally posted by Dorrian If you dont like the gender lock then....... DONT PLAY and stay in WoW we dont need you.
Not Wow, I play ESO and sure ... I will stay away, I dont need gender locked classes.
Only 5 of the 13 are one gender (or no gender, so far). They've recently added the female centaur. 8 genders with male and female as many as omst MMO's start with.
Exactly.
This whole thread is just an example of "I HATE IT CAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT, BUT I WANT IT TO BE DIFFERENT FROM EVERYTHING ELSE!"
I really don't care at this point. Maybe they'll change it later if they want but for now I just want to see the game become a good game. Something like genders are the least of our issues.
Change your thoughts and you change your world. -
Norman Vincent Peale
Wow, Just wow, If gender locking don't keep you away from this game, It's toxic and overzealous community sure will. Don't know what all the fuzz is about, this game will crash and burn like every other mmo in recent history. I'm pretty sure that after the game is long gone, she will be still writing pieces ABOUT HER OPINION which she is totally entitled to.
This said I don't mind gender locking, What really pisses me off is that always in gl games the support/healer class HAS to be female and girly.
Originally posted by logicbomb82 Really..who cares if you have to play a man or women.. lets hope it's a good game with fun mechanics that is the more important thing to worry about.
This over and over and over again. Who gives a shit about the gender of a class as long as the game is fun. So many games these days are not gender locked, but they SUCK. I think it is more important to the community as a whole to have a good, playable and fun game than worry what is up their pants. Hell even MMO's without gender lock don't have anything up their pants so what's your argument there?
This all topic stems from the ridiculous assumption that male/female human sexuality is the only form of reproduction when talking about "race"... This is definitely wrong and even more so in a "fantasy" setting.
I find the OP rather unimaginative.
Orks in Warhammer don't even have female counterparts. I'd rather have an interesting, varied and surprising lore than an uninspired "human centric" lore.
Races and professions can or cannot be gender locked depending on the lore. Same as some races can be "stigmatised" depending on the lore.
Should we fight for all races to be equal in game now?
Think its funny that people say its alright if there is a lore reason as to why a class is gender locked.
Could spend 1 minute and write a lore reason why any of the classes are gender locked.
Also, its even funnier when people say "well, if you dont like it then go back to WoW, we dont need you"
Do you speak for the developers? Im pretty sure they would have a different attitude towards chasing away potential customers. Especially, a small team thats tight on money.
Think its funny that people say its alright if there is a lore reason as to why a class is gender locked.
Could spend 1 minute and write a lore reason why any of the classes are gender locked.
Also, its even funnier when people say "well, if you dont like it then go back to WoW, we dont need you"
Do you speak for the developers? Im pretty sure they would have a different attitude towards chasing away potential customers. Especially, a small team thats tight on money.
While that's true, the ArtCraft devs have said repeatedly that this game won't be for everyone. If someone isn't going to play because some races are gender locked, I won't be sad that that person isn't playing. If they don't "quit" over this, they will quit over some other minor thing that they think represents the end of the world as we know it.
Think its funny that people say its alright if there is a lore reason as to why a class is gender locked.
Could spend 1 minute and write a lore reason why any of the classes are gender locked.
Also, its even funnier when people say "well, if you dont like it then go back to WoW, we dont need you"
Do you speak for the developers? Im pretty sure they would have a different attitude towards chasing away potential customers. Especially, a small team thats tight on money.
Unless YOU speak for the developers... their thoughts are apparent in their product:
This is a tiny, non-issue for the vast majority of players and the developers consciously made a choice that it would cost more to add than they would lose from people who won't play because they cannot make a female minotaur...
They roughly doubled their goal with 1 day to go in funding... so I would have to say that their plan worked perfectly. You can differ of course, and withold your pledge as a protest but you are really only spiting yourself.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When I first was exposed to gender locked classes it was those awful Asian grinders. I saw the lack of an alternative gender as a cost cutting measure that further reinforced my negative opinion of the particular game.
As I have thought about it.....I have come to believe that when I see this limitation of choice and being forced(if you want to play a particular class) to play a character that doesn't represent your gender (in a western game) as a conscious attempt to change the general populous' thinking about sexuality.
IMO.....Same gender marriage.....forced playing of a gender that's not yours are all part of a larger social agenda to blur the lines of sexuality by some who want to influence the culture.
It's not just gender locked, isn't it race -> class locked as well?
I respect Artcraft's decision to design the game the way they see fit, but I'll most likely be skipping the game in part due to these decisions.
IMHO variety is the spice of life and in MMORPGs in particular, I never did understand the design choice to limit the roles one would be allowed to choose in designing their character -- especially in an 'RPG'. It's a bit of an oxymoron if you ask me and character creation is such an essential part of the game to so many individuals.
Different strokes for different folks means by having such limitations, you dramatically increase your chances of someone not falling in love with their avatar versus when they can really customize it to their liking -- which keeps them playing and spending time in your game-world.
Just seems like a no brainer when considering the potential ROI, based on the time it would take to design vs. the increased amount of customers it would satisfy...but what do I know.
Been reading this thread off and on since it was posted. As a whole, I agree with most of the comments. It is a sad day when we forget lore, story and context for the sake of "just because". Looking at the Archtypes, there is really only one or two that might be able to have a counterpart. Though even then it goes against what they already established as lore. Making retcons this early would be... less than stellar.
Game play > cosmetics when it comes to indie games with limited budget. Simply acknowledging limited budget and then saying (or implying) that it's worth cutting features to go against (or rewrite) lore and investing in cosmetics is something I cannot and will not condone.
Yes, more options is good, but only when it isn't a detriment to the game as a whole. In fact, there are female only races just as there are male; not to mention Archtypes that could simply be called "things".
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Also consider that because Coleman helped to make Shadowbane that gender locking is part of the strategic portion of the game. Maintain rock, paper, and scissor value to the game by not always allowing all races to be all classes.
Originally posted by Slapshot1188 Originally posted by XiaokiThink its funny that people say its alright if there is a lore reason as to why a class is gender locked.Could spend 1 minute and write a lore reason why any of the classes are gender locked.Also, its even funnier when people say "well, if you dont like it then go back to WoW, we dont need you"Do you speak for the developers? Im pretty sure they would have a different attitude towards chasing away potential customers. Especially, a small team thats tight on money.
Unless YOU speak for the developers... their thoughts are apparent in their product:
This is a tiny, non-issue for the vast majority of players and the developers consciously made a choice that it would cost more to add than they would lose from people who won't play because they cannot make a female minotaur...
They roughly doubled their goal with 1 day to go in funding... so I would have to say that their plan worked perfectly. You can differ of course, and withold your pledge as a protest but you are really only spiting yourself.
Yes, the Kickstarter was successful but that doesnt mean the game will be successful when it releases.
People are going to start forming their lasting opinion of the game soon responses from the developers and the fans can sway that opinion.
The developers know that this game wont appeal to everyone but they would probably respond with a more diplomatic "why not try the game and see if you like it" and not "go back to WoW, we dont want you"
Just because someone has a complaint or concern doesnt mean they should be chased away by a toxic community.
I am glad to see this game getting some of the attention and support. I have no doubt it will be a fun game ... for some. The more I research the game the more I can see this will just be a hybrid MOBA and not what I enjoy in a MMORPG. With the gender locked classes it is just one more thing that points me elsewhere.
Just because someone has a complaint or concern doesnt mean they should be chased away by a toxic community.
It also doesn't mean that everyone with a complaint or concern should be catered to.
Besides, my point was that you criticized another poster for "speaking for the developers" and then went off and tried to do the exact same thing. Except your statement was in fact incongruent with the ACTUAL statements from the Developers. They weighed the impact and decided the cost was greater than the benefit. You certainly don't have to LIKE their decision. You can even think they are wrong. What you CAN'T do is "speak for them" and say something other than what they have told us.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Personalization is key, it's no fun if everyone looks the same, and MOBA games are different games not an RPG where you create your own character and develop it.
Its quite simple, I also will refuse to play a mmorpg that gender locks to avoid the development cost associated with it. Some genres you just dont do that, especially when it comes to westernized content.
Some of you might not find this a big deal, some people will. Gender locking for this genre is not something I think anyone should support or give a free pass on, though some leniency can be given at least for the fact that its not across the board genderlocking.
can anybody that supports this design decision come with a valid argument why gender locked is superior to free character creation in an MMORPG?
I´m willing to change my opinion, if you can convince me that a gender locked hero with a few hairstyles/faces mabye is better than complete freedom over how you want to design your character.
Comments
Not Wow, I play ESO and sure ... I will stay away, I dont need gender locked classes.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Only 5 of the 13 are one gender (or no gender, so far). They've recently added the female centaur. 8 genders with male and female as many as most MMO's start with.
People are reading the article and assuming they are all gender locked or that most are gender locked. This is not the case.
Let's look at the 5 that are single or no gender:
1. Stoneborn - a Dwarf like race that, as Cynthia pointed out, can be excused as male only.
2. Elken - a Elk-like race complete with horns. The female model of this might work and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the future.
3. Fae - the lore of this particular Archetype speaks heavily of the female perspective. Female-only is explained in the lore..
4. Minotaur - A bull. I don't see why a female option couldn't be a future stretch goal here.
5. Guinecian - I'm not even sure this race has a gender at all, to be honest. This one could go either way.
That's it. All of the rest have both male and female options.
mmorpg junkie since 1999
Exactly.
This whole thread is just an example of "I HATE IT CAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT, BUT I WANT IT TO BE DIFFERENT FROM EVERYTHING ELSE!"
Yes, It doesn't bother me to be honest.
Wow, Just wow, If gender locking don't keep you away from this game, It's toxic and overzealous community sure will. Don't know what all the fuzz is about, this game will crash and burn like every other mmo in recent history. I'm pretty sure that after the game is long gone, she will be still writing pieces ABOUT HER OPINION which she is totally entitled to.
This said I don't mind gender locking, What really pisses me off is that always in gl games the support/healer class HAS to be female and girly.
This over and over and over again. Who gives a shit about the gender of a class as long as the game is fun. So many games these days are not gender locked, but they SUCK. I think it is more important to the community as a whole to have a good, playable and fun game than worry what is up their pants. Hell even MMO's without gender lock don't have anything up their pants so what's your argument there?
So no profession/race can be "gender locked" eh?
Just (generally) what about:
- Snail race (hermaphrodite)
- Amazons (all females) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazons
- Vestals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestal_Virgin)
This all topic stems from the ridiculous assumption that male/female human sexuality is the only form of reproduction when talking about "race"... This is definitely wrong and even more so in a "fantasy" setting.
I find the OP rather unimaginative.
Orks in Warhammer don't even have female counterparts. I'd rather have an interesting, varied and surprising lore than an uninspired "human centric" lore.
Races and professions can or cannot be gender locked depending on the lore. Same as some races can be "stigmatised" depending on the lore.
Should we fight for all races to be equal in game now?
Think its funny that people say its alright if there is a lore reason as to why a class is gender locked.
Could spend 1 minute and write a lore reason why any of the classes are gender locked.
Also, its even funnier when people say "well, if you dont like it then go back to WoW, we dont need you"
Do you speak for the developers? Im pretty sure they would have a different attitude towards chasing away potential customers. Especially, a small team thats tight on money.
While that's true, the ArtCraft devs have said repeatedly that this game won't be for everyone. If someone isn't going to play because some races are gender locked, I won't be sad that that person isn't playing. If they don't "quit" over this, they will quit over some other minor thing that they think represents the end of the world as we know it.
Unless YOU speak for the developers... their thoughts are apparent in their product:
This is a tiny, non-issue for the vast majority of players and the developers consciously made a choice that it would cost more to add than they would lose from people who won't play because they cannot make a female minotaur...
They roughly doubled their goal with 1 day to go in funding... so I would have to say that their plan worked perfectly. You can differ of course, and withold your pledge as a protest but you are really only spiting yourself.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When I first was exposed to gender locked classes it was those awful Asian grinders. I saw the lack of an alternative gender as a cost cutting measure that further reinforced my negative opinion of the particular game.
As I have thought about it.....I have come to believe that when I see this limitation of choice and being forced(if you want to play a particular class) to play a character that doesn't represent your gender (in a western game) as a conscious attempt to change the general populous' thinking about sexuality.
IMO.....Same gender marriage.....forced playing of a gender that's not yours are all part of a larger social agenda to blur the lines of sexuality by some who want to influence the culture.
TO ME this is clear......and I reject it.
It's not just gender locked, isn't it race -> class locked as well?
I respect Artcraft's decision to design the game the way they see fit, but I'll most likely be skipping the game in part due to these decisions.
IMHO variety is the spice of life and in MMORPGs in particular, I never did understand the design choice to limit the roles one would be allowed to choose in designing their character -- especially in an 'RPG'. It's a bit of an oxymoron if you ask me and character creation is such an essential part of the game to so many individuals.
Different strokes for different folks means by having such limitations, you dramatically increase your chances of someone not falling in love with their avatar versus when they can really customize it to their liking -- which keeps them playing and spending time in your game-world.
Just seems like a no brainer when considering the potential ROI, based on the time it would take to design vs. the increased amount of customers it would satisfy...but what do I know.
Been reading this thread off and on since it was posted. As a whole, I agree with most of the comments. It is a sad day when we forget lore, story and context for the sake of "just because". Looking at the Archtypes, there is really only one or two that might be able to have a counterpart. Though even then it goes against what they already established as lore. Making retcons this early would be... less than stellar.
Game play > cosmetics when it comes to indie games with limited budget. Simply acknowledging limited budget and then saying (or implying) that it's worth cutting features to go against (or rewrite) lore and investing in cosmetics is something I cannot and will not condone.
Yes, more options is good, but only when it isn't a detriment to the game as a whole. In fact, there are female only races just as there are male; not to mention Archtypes that could simply be called "things".
Also consider that because Coleman helped to make Shadowbane that gender locking is part of the strategic portion of the game. Maintain rock, paper, and scissor value to the game by not always allowing all races to be all classes.
This is a tiny, non-issue for the vast majority of players and the developers consciously made a choice that it would cost more to add than they would lose from people who won't play because they cannot make a female minotaur...
They roughly doubled their goal with 1 day to go in funding... so I would have to say that their plan worked perfectly. You can differ of course, and withold your pledge as a protest but you are really only spiting yourself.
Yes, the Kickstarter was successful but that doesnt mean the game will be successful when it releases.
People are going to start forming their lasting opinion of the game soon responses from the developers and the fans can sway that opinion.
The developers know that this game wont appeal to everyone but they would probably respond with a more diplomatic "why not try the game and see if you like it" and not "go back to WoW, we dont want you"
Just because someone has a complaint or concern doesnt mean they should be chased away by a toxic community.
It also doesn't mean that everyone with a complaint or concern should be catered to.
Besides, my point was that you criticized another poster for "speaking for the developers" and then went off and tried to do the exact same thing. Except your statement was in fact incongruent with the ACTUAL statements from the Developers. They weighed the impact and decided the cost was greater than the benefit. You certainly don't have to LIKE their decision. You can even think they are wrong. What you CAN'T do is "speak for them" and say something other than what they have told us.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Crowfall was on my radar, but not anymore.
Its quite simple, I also will refuse to play a mmorpg that gender locks to avoid the development cost associated with it. Some genres you just dont do that, especially when it comes to westernized content.
Some of you might not find this a big deal, some people will. Gender locking for this genre is not something I think anyone should support or give a free pass on, though some leniency can be given at least for the fact that its not across the board genderlocking.
can anybody that supports this design decision come with a valid argument why gender locked is superior to free character creation in an MMORPG?
I´m willing to change my opinion, if you can convince me that a gender locked hero with a few hairstyles/faces mabye is better than complete freedom over how you want to design your character.
shoot