The developers simply decided that the number of people who would want to play a female deer character were so low that it would cost more to implement than it was worth. These guys had the same setup in Shadowbane and it was fine. You can cross gender RP all you want on most of the characters. There are just a few that are gender locked. Obviously their tactic has worked thus far as they have double their goal raised for money. It's not for everyone, and if you are one of those guys that just HAVE to be able to play a male Fae or a female deer... unfortunately the game will not accommodate you at this time.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It really shouldn't matter TBH. I understand where the writer is coming from, but if the game is good, the game is good and a small inconvience of "I can't be a male x or a female y" shouldn't stop you from playing the game.
Originally posted by logicbomb82 Really..who cares if you have to play a man or women.. lets hope it's a good game with fun mechanics that is the more important thing to worry about.
That's a silly argument. Gender locked classes are silly, classes in a sandbox is silly in the first place then they go and gender lock them? Bad move! This is 2015 FFS not 1997
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Oh good, more exaggeration, insults, and calls for censorship from the oh so "liberal" members of the media.
Thought they learned their lesson after gamergate.
Considering this site, of ALL sites, is the most boot licking one I know, and always praises whatever game its covering, it's a wonder that THIS is what they're taking their stand on. Guess they know it'll get clicks.
Originally posted by logicbomb82 Really..who cares if you have to play a man or women.. lets hope it's a good game with fun mechanics that is the more important thing to worry about.
That's a silly argument. Gender locked classes are silly, classes in a sandbox is silly in the first place then they go and gender lock them? Bad move! This is 2015 FFS not 1997
No it's actually not. Saying that a good game with fun mechanics is the most important thing to worry about is actually a really, really good statement. Throwing out some random year comparison is actually a silly argument.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
can anybody that supports this design decision come with a valid argument why gender locked is superior to free character creation in an MMORPG?
I´m willing to change my opinion, if you can convince me that a gender locked hero with a few hairstyles/faces mabye is better than complete freedom over how you want to design your character.
shoot
Some archetypes have only ever been female or male. Such as, a valkyrie. So it stays with the iconic image.
Also, it saves money and allows for a game to be made to begin with. Otherwise, it would cost a lot more money and not get made, done.
Comparing it to which color one thinks (or could argue) is better is a bit of a false equivalency, in part because the genre itself is deeply rooted in social interaction and roleplay. As such, an avatar is directly linked to the emotional response tied to the player (what keeps them emotionally invested in the outcome of the game and character itself). There is some pretty concrete reasoning involved for why gender options matter for this genre and target audience, almost objectively so.
Gender locking itself has come to have a fairly negative connotations with this genre as well. Its some what of a taboo, even if its only for certain races... the presence of such a restriction will still cause a negative reaction. It probably would have been better for them to not include those classes/races altogether, especially if they felt few would actually play them.
Either way all these are just opinions and dialog, at the end of the day it just comes down to the simple fact that the players will vote with their wallet.
Originally posted by Nemesis7884 Dont most moba have genderlocked classes? Cause thats basically what cf is anyway...
Mobas don't have classes. They have characters that you can play. You can't change the gender of Zues in smite because Zeus is a male. In an MMO, I'm making my own character. They're claiming that Crowfall is an MMO, not a moba. HOnestly, gender locked classes is just fucking lazy. If a company isn't going to put enough effort in to allow me to choose the gender I play as, in an online rpg, I'm not going to give them my money.
I think this is just "Fishing" for something to poke at about this game. I think the writer also had a post about ESO's bugs which were fixed pretty much shortly after the thread posted.
1) Most Races...especially the typical classes have male and female.
2) If I was writing a story/novel I would (and am actually) creating characters that are specific genders for legitamate reasons. It does add to role playing and immersion in some respects. It can take away from immersion if certain choices don't really make much sense ...such as "humans".
3) What the writer is suggesting is this... Instaed of having 10 races where 7 are both male and female, 1 is male only, 1 is female only, and 1 is neither... we should just have 8 Races and make the 8th male and female... scrap the others. WHY would you even want that?
4) So far we know you can learn most of anything in here, so regardless of race you should be able to learn a lot of different skills that are esentially different classes. Customization is fine.
Originally posted by Slapshot1188 Originally posted by Xiaoki
Just because someone has a complaint or concern doesnt mean they should be chased away by a toxic community. It also doesn't mean that everyone with a complaint or concern should be catered to.
Besides, my point was that you criticized another poster for "speaking for the developers" and then went off and tried to do the exact same thing. Except your statement was in fact incongruent with the ACTUAL statements from the Developers. They weighed the impact and decided the cost was greater than the benefit. You certainly don't have to LIKE their decision. You can even think they are wrong. What you CAN'T do is "speak for them" and say something other than what they have told us.
So, where exactly did I speak for the developers? Because I did not do that and you are just lying.
Also, what about you speaking for other people?
"This is a tiny, non-issue for the vast majority of players"
Oh, so you know what every MMO player in the entire world thinks about gender locked classes? That seems hard to believe.
First, you lie about what I said and then you spread opinion as fact to bolster your point of view.
Looks like I was entirely correct about the toxic community.
I think the gripe here about gender locked classes is a bit misleading.
Most gripes about mmorpgs with gender locked classes, suffer from ALL classes being gender locked.
In crowfalls case, the genderlock is only on a couple unique and specific classes, and it has plenty of lore to back up why this is the case. This sort of gender locking is fine IMO. It helps build the game world lore and make the game much more unique.
I think its important to keep the 2 different types of games that use any form of gender locking seperate when it comes to having an issue with it.
I absolutely agree.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Gender locking is fine if it fits the lore. You couldn't make a male fury in SB because they were witches, just like there was no option for a female minotaur; it adds flavor to the game. Atrox is another gender lock I was fine with (AO).
I've always been in favor of class locking, gender locking, race locking if it made sense. I hear the argument sacrifice immersion, lore doesn't matter, who cares about the setting. This new era of gamer really freaking irritates me. It is pretty damn simple, don't like, don't buy it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Just because someone has a complaint or concern doesnt mean they should be chased away by a toxic community.
It also doesn't mean that everyone with a complaint or concern should be catered to.
Besides, my point was that you criticized another poster for "speaking for the developers" and then went off and tried to do the exact same thing. Except your statement was in fact incongruent with the ACTUAL statements from the Developers. They weighed the impact and decided the cost was greater than the benefit. You certainly don't have to LIKE their decision. You can even think they are wrong. What you CAN'T do is "speak for them" and say something other than what they have told us.
So, where exactly did I speak for the developers? Because I did not do that and you are just lying.
Also, what about you speaking for other people?
"This is a tiny, non-issue for the vast majority of players"
Oh, so you know what every MMO player in the entire world thinks about gender locked classes? That seems hard to believe.
First, you lie about what I said and then you spread opinion as fact to bolster your point of view.
Looks like I was entirely correct about the toxic community.
Playing the "toxic community" card doesn't work out in your favor...
"We the gender lock lovers love it ! ,you gender lovers should play wow , gender locks saves money ,1st person view makes gender locks perfect and go play wow ,genderlock haters gonna hate"
This thread is pure win keep em coming folks!
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I love the people who say I was going to play this game, but now that there is gender locking, no way am I playing, lol. Such BS statements. They never intended to play. If gender locking bothered people that much, there is no way they would even play an animal character because that is even farther from being human than merely playing another gender.
Personally I like gender, race class locking if it fits. Making a Valkyrie or Banshee male is ridiculous. I remember people whining about the witch elf in Warhammer. I think such locking adds spice, flavor and immersion into a game.
I would hate to see male banshees wandering around in a game when they don't exist lore wise in legend or myth.
Also, I think most of the people that don't care about the gender locking is not because they are fans of crowfall, following the hype train, but because they REALLY DON'T CARE!
I don't care about gender locking, and not much about this game, but still like to read topics of upcoming titles. Never know, I might change my mind about a title, although lately it has been from for to against mostly lol.
Just because someone has a complaint or concern doesnt mean they should be chased away by a toxic community.
It also doesn't mean that everyone with a complaint or concern should be catered to.
Besides, my point was that you criticized another poster for "speaking for the developers" and then went off and tried to do the exact same thing. Except your statement was in fact incongruent with the ACTUAL statements from the Developers. They weighed the impact and decided the cost was greater than the benefit. You certainly don't have to LIKE their decision. You can even think they are wrong. What you CAN'T do is "speak for them" and say something other than what they have told us.
So, where exactly did I speak for the developers? Because I did not do that and you are just lying.
How about um right here: The developers know that this game wont appeal to everyone but they would probably respond with a more diplomatic "why not try the game and see if you like it" and not "go back to WoW, we dont want you"
Welcome to the search function...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Sorry but if a Male Assassin is not available, I will not be playing. I always choose the rogue archetype in games and I always make them male. I know many do not understand but that is just my opinion.
Originally posted by Slapshot1188 Originally posted by XiaokiOriginally posted by Slapshot1188Originally posted by XiaokiJust because someone has a complaint or concern doesnt mean they should be chased away by a toxic community. It also doesn't mean that everyone with a complaint or concern should be catered to.Besides, my point was that you criticized another poster for "speaking for the developers" and then went off and tried to do the exact same thing. Except your statement was in fact incongruent with the ACTUAL statements from the Developers. They weighed the impact and decided the cost was greater than the benefit. You certainly don't have to LIKE their decision. You can even think they are wrong. What you CAN'T do is "speak for them" and say something other than what they have told us.
So, where exactly did I speak for the developers? Because I did not do that and you are just lying.How about um right here: The developers know that this game wont appeal to everyone but they would probably respond with a more diplomatic "why not try the game and see if you like it" and not "go back to WoW, we dont want you" Welcome to the search function... Wait, you think I was speaking for the developers when I said "this game wont appeal to everyone"?
LOL
The developers have been saying that since the beginning. They even say it in their "We're funded!" announcement.
Perhaps you should use the Google search function.
Originally posted by logicbomb82 Really..who cares if you have to play a man or women.. lets hope it's a good game with fun mechanics that is the more important thing to worry about.
Tons of gamers consider being forced to play a certain gender a gamebreaker. I personally, have never played a female nor ever want to. Fun mechanics in a good game wouldn't make me change my mind imho.
People really need to get the sand out of their butt cracks. This kind of stuff is getting ridiculous, if there is a good lore reason for a class to be gender specific than fine. Get over it. Especially if its 1 or 2 out of 10 or 12 classes.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
These days, given how jaded some people are with MMORPGs, there’s a lot of talk of both doing something different and bringing certain things back to the genre in a specific game project. With crowdfunding, it’s important that a game appeal to the potential audience, but also that the developers are able to deliver the most complete project in a reasonable fashion. Yet, with a game like Crowfall, riding a successful Kickstarter campaign as of this writing of over $1.3 million with days to go, one of my biggest pet peeves in the genre has popped up again, and is a huge disappointment: gender locked classes.
I feel your pain. Going from 44 classes in Dark Age of Camelot with 24 races, and only 2 of them being gender locked (Bainshee and Valkyrie due to lore)...is hard.
But, luckily, all mmorpgs produce a tiny amount of class race options these days (keep it simple stupid formulation I guess or simple for the stupid? meh)....and at worse go classless so everyone can be the same unique tank rogue healer class (lol).
Comments
Better? Is Green a better color than Yellow?
Why does one have to be better?
The developers simply decided that the number of people who would want to play a female deer character were so low that it would cost more to implement than it was worth. These guys had the same setup in Shadowbane and it was fine. You can cross gender RP all you want on most of the characters. There are just a few that are gender locked. Obviously their tactic has worked thus far as they have double their goal raised for money. It's not for everyone, and if you are one of those guys that just HAVE to be able to play a male Fae or a female deer... unfortunately the game will not accommodate you at this time.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
That's a silly argument. Gender locked classes are silly, classes in a sandbox is silly in the first place then they go and gender lock them? Bad move! This is 2015 FFS not 1997
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Oh good, more exaggeration, insults, and calls for censorship from the oh so "liberal" members of the media.
Thought they learned their lesson after gamergate.
Considering this site, of ALL sites, is the most boot licking one I know, and always praises whatever game its covering, it's a wonder that THIS is what they're taking their stand on. Guess they know it'll get clicks.
No it's actually not. Saying that a good game with fun mechanics is the most important thing to worry about is actually a really, really good statement. Throwing out some random year comparison is actually a silly argument.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Some archetypes have only ever been female or male. Such as, a valkyrie.
So it stays with the iconic image.
Also, it saves money and allows for a game to be made to begin with. Otherwise, it would cost a lot more money and not get made, done.
Comparing it to which color one thinks (or could argue) is better is a bit of a false equivalency, in part because the genre itself is deeply rooted in social interaction and roleplay. As such, an avatar is directly linked to the emotional response tied to the player (what keeps them emotionally invested in the outcome of the game and character itself). There is some pretty concrete reasoning involved for why gender options matter for this genre and target audience, almost objectively so.
Gender locking itself has come to have a fairly negative connotations with this genre as well. Its some what of a taboo, even if its only for certain races... the presence of such a restriction will still cause a negative reaction. It probably would have been better for them to not include those classes/races altogether, especially if they felt few would actually play them.
Either way all these are just opinions and dialog, at the end of the day it just comes down to the simple fact that the players will vote with their wallet.
Mobas don't have classes. They have characters that you can play. You can't change the gender of Zues in smite because Zeus is a male. In an MMO, I'm making my own character. They're claiming that Crowfall is an MMO, not a moba. HOnestly, gender locked classes is just fucking lazy. If a company isn't going to put enough effort in to allow me to choose the gender I play as, in an online rpg, I'm not going to give them my money.
They just finished an AMA on Reddit... unless I missed them they got a total of ZERO questions about gender-locking.
Non-issue for the vast majority of prospective players.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think this is just "Fishing" for something to poke at about this game. I think the writer also had a post about ESO's bugs which were fixed pretty much shortly after the thread posted.
1) Most Races...especially the typical classes have male and female.
2) If I was writing a story/novel I would (and am actually) creating characters that are specific genders for legitamate reasons. It does add to role playing and immersion in some respects. It can take away from immersion if certain choices don't really make much sense ...such as "humans".
3) What the writer is suggesting is this... Instaed of having 10 races where 7 are both male and female, 1 is male only, 1 is female only, and 1 is neither... we should just have 8 Races and make the 8th male and female... scrap the others. WHY would you even want that?
4) So far we know you can learn most of anything in here, so regardless of race you should be able to learn a lot of different skills that are esentially different classes. Customization is fine.
This. Can we let this thread die now?
It also doesn't mean that everyone with a complaint or concern should be catered to.
Besides, my point was that you criticized another poster for "speaking for the developers" and then went off and tried to do the exact same thing. Except your statement was in fact incongruent with the ACTUAL statements from the Developers. They weighed the impact and decided the cost was greater than the benefit. You certainly don't have to LIKE their decision. You can even think they are wrong. What you CAN'T do is "speak for them" and say something other than what they have told us.
So, where exactly did I speak for the developers? Because I did not do that and you are just lying.
Also, what about you speaking for other people?
"This is a tiny, non-issue for the vast majority of players"
Oh, so you know what every MMO player in the entire world thinks about gender locked classes? That seems hard to believe.
First, you lie about what I said and then you spread opinion as fact to bolster your point of view.
Looks like I was entirely correct about the toxic community.
I absolutely agree.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
+100
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Playing the "toxic community" card doesn't work out in your favor...
"We the gender lock lovers love it ! ,you gender lovers should play wow , gender locks saves money ,1st person view makes gender locks perfect and go play wow ,genderlock haters gonna hate"
This thread is pure win keep em coming folks!
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I love the people who say I was going to play this game, but now that there is gender locking, no way am I playing, lol. Such BS statements. They never intended to play. If gender locking bothered people that much, there is no way they would even play an animal character because that is even farther from being human than merely playing another gender.
Personally I like gender, race class locking if it fits. Making a Valkyrie or Banshee male is ridiculous. I remember people whining about the witch elf in Warhammer. I think such locking adds spice, flavor and immersion into a game.
I would hate to see male banshees wandering around in a game when they don't exist lore wise in legend or myth.
Also, I think most of the people that don't care about the gender locking is not because they are fans of crowfall, following the hype train, but because they REALLY DON'T CARE!
I don't care about gender locking, and not much about this game, but still like to read topics of upcoming titles. Never know, I might change my mind about a title, although lately it has been from for to against mostly lol.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
How about um right here: The developers know that this game wont appeal to everyone but they would probably respond with a more diplomatic "why not try the game and see if you like it" and not "go back to WoW, we dont want you"
Welcome to the search function...
Wait, you think I was speaking for the developers when I said "this game wont appeal to everyone"?
LOL
The developers have been saying that since the beginning. They even say it in their "We're funded!" announcement.
Perhaps you should use the Google search function.
Tons of gamers consider being forced to play a certain gender a gamebreaker. I personally, have never played a female nor ever want to. Fun mechanics in a good game wouldn't make me change my mind imho.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Who writes a whole page about this crap?
Is this a desperation attempt for attention?
Have you missed your quota?
Nothing to see here... move along!
I feel your pain. Going from 44 classes in Dark Age of Camelot with 24 races, and only 2 of them being gender locked (Bainshee and Valkyrie due to lore)...is hard.
But, luckily, all mmorpgs produce a tiny amount of class race options these days (keep it simple stupid formulation I guess or simple for the stupid? meh)....and at worse go classless so everyone can be the same unique tank rogue healer class (lol).