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If Vanguard is any Sort of Gauge for Pantheon...
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That highlighted part... It is called a logical fallacy.
Let us assume that this is true. Ever hear of Edgar Allen Poe? ...Jim Morrison? ...Kurt Cobain? ...Amy Whinehouse? ...Whitney Houston? ...Sigmund Freud? ...Thomas Edison? ...Andy Warhol? ...Vincent van Gogh? ...Aleister Crowley? ...Charles Dickens? ...Ernest Hemingway? ...Marilyn Monroe? ...Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky? ...Stephen King? ...Ulysses S. Grant? ...Winston Churchill?
Main point is, "what does that have to do with anything?"
That alone should tell you something, about what all of those people working for free, recognize in Pantheon. But instead, you twist it to be something those professionals do not seem to be concerned with.
And where do you stand? It appears you stand in the distant past, where a decade has not moved at all... You need to let it go, or it will devour you from within.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
Vanguard was about the level of mess that would kill a normal game. Good ideas but less then solid delivery.
P:RotF... Well who knows. It would be nice to see them push through if nothing else to be able to see what it becomes. Especially as i do not have dime invested/donated. Hit or miss will be as interesting to me.
But seeings as i belived it would have been dead long ago and it (like that weird plant in your dorm room) still limps on i at lest have to give people props for their iron clad determination.
This have been a good conversation
I have been in layoffs, been one of the people layed off, and been in management when layoffs occur and I can tell you from experience that when a division is shut down and people loose their jobs, they are upset and justifiably looking for someone to blame. In their frustration, I've seen victims of a layoff come up with reasons that can range from simply misinformed to downright crazy. You can't blame them, loosing your job is traumatic, and they often don't think through the stuff they are saying, they just say it to each other and it sounds plausible. Thing is, it is typically unproductive for management to defend itself in that situation, or otherwise set the record straight. There's no way management looks good because everyone knows where the buck stops, and what would you gain from contradicting employees at that point? It only makes for bad press and helps perpetuate a story you'd rather not associate with your company. So I would take with a large grain of salt much of the stuff that was going around the time of the Vanguard layoffs. Could it be true, sure. But it is also likely it was just upset people with incomplete information trying to figure out why they lost a job they were so invested in.
That's one way to look at it. The other is that SOE had enough faith in it to back it. A good question is: why did Vanguard get sold at all. Why didn't Microsoft just release it as-is. I know there was restructuring and trimming going on at the time at Microsoft, it was in the news, and the logical explanation is that Vanguard fell victim to that. Maybe Microsoft had internal information that made them skeptical that the game would succeed, maybe people weren't playing the beta, not that I'd blame them given it was choppy due to being unoptimized. Or maybe the new team in charge just didn't like inheriting a mess they did not create. In any event SOE had enough faith to buy it, so the second question is why? They must have thought it would make them money because no company in its right mind buys product thinking it will loose money. I think it would be fairer to say SOE had enough faith in their ability to make money off of Vanguard to buy it. And, they probably did make money, which would mean it was at least a partial success.
You make it sounds like people working on it for free is a bad thing. The fact that there are developers, people in the industry and in the know, that are working on the project for free should also make you wonder why they have such faith in Pantheon. What to they know that you don't. To me that is incredibly encouraging, and makes me very hopeful. It means there are developers out there who believe like I do that a game like this should be made. What's more it is an incredible show of faith in what they are doing and a team with that kind of commitment can accomplish darn near anything.
If Vanguard is a gauge to some extension that would be a good thing;
Epic dungeons that hasn't been attempted since, and quests like the griffon quest / VT armor quests
A slew of classes, the best healing classes ive ever played
Defensive target / duel targeting, what game has that
Tedious yet involving crafting, ships, guild forts.......so on
Challenging gameplay
Very immersive starting racial cities, loved those too.
Difficult travel made the world even more huge and epic, before they added fast travel.
Just some of the things i could think of off the top of my head many more i'm sure theres more.
So eliminate the bugs add a mixture of ways to level your toon, xp camps few quests, dungeon crawls and this will be a huge game I will be playing for 10 years or more. They have a huge task but i actually believe they will nail it.
Calm yourself, have no fear.
There's absolutely no chance that it will succeed...
I always smile at people that try to judge people by looking at totally unrelated stuff ;-)
You guys lost your best president, just because he cheated on his wife. Isn't that enough sign that you should stop doing this?
I could not care less what Brad does or does not... or did, or did not. All i care is if he delivers this game. And he is not alone you know? If he delivers, i don't care why. If he does not deliver, i also don't care why. All that matters to me is his vision (every EQ fan has to love his vision, so do i) and that he delivers.
If he goes on a drug, alcohol and smoking spree while delivering? Well, so be it. If he lives like a monk while delivering... so be it.
No idea why his personal stuff even remotly matters to you guys. At best you can calm down your hype if you expect him to fail, but attacking him over and over, trying to convince others of the same, that is just not the right thing to do. After all we all want a solid game. That is why we are in this subforum.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Though I completely agree with you, if you are talking about Clinton he ran two full terms therefore him cheating on his wife had nothing to do with him leaving office.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
He can't be talking about President Clinton because he said "best president"
Also.. I'm so hyped for this game! EQ and Vanguard are my most played games by far.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
What ever happened to wait until the game is released before making judgments and believe what the developers say?
Investigating a developers past to gauge their future potential and likely results of what they are working on? Judging the possibility of the game not releasing based on the current situation the developer is in? Not backing the game based on what you currently see of it?
Other than the flaws in your argument that others have already pointed out, you do bring up interesting aspects about evaluating a developer and their project.
I couldn't agree more.
Vanguard was one of the most direct threats to EQ/EQ2 subscriber base. If any developer had bought it with the intention to seriously developing it, it could have drawn huge numbers away from SOE games.
Purchasing vanguard probably cost very little, eliminated competitive threat and probably broke even over its life span. Not to mention all the developers SOE acquired from Sigil and moved to their other games.
It was a very smart purchase for SOE... and they got to look like heroes for " trying" to save the game.
Smed putting Brad company out of business was probably icing on the cake.
You have me mistaken. I completely agree with judging Brads ability to run a company based on his past and have my doubts about what he can deliver. I think he has talent as a game designer, but I don't think he can do that while doing everything else at a company and not end up repeating past mistakes. Whatever someone might think those mistakes were.
The oddity you may have detected is my pointing out Nanfoodle engaging in the same negative judgments against Pantheon that he condemns others for doing to games he is a fan of.
At a time when there isn't 1 popular traditional styled MMORPG on the market, its really more about supporting an idea than it is about supporting a person. If you can't see that and you are really happy with the current state of the genre, I feel sorry for you. The rest of us are looking to buy his game and not his virginity.
You have a point, but it just expands the meaning of "making money" to include the combination of EQ/EQ2 and Vanguard. Again, companies don't set out to loose money. So if the acquisition costs of Vanguard were more than they expected to make on Vanguard combined with the money they wouldn't loose on EQ/EQ2 they wouldn't have done it.
Then feel sorry for me because I am indeed happy.
And by the "rest of us" you surely mean this minority that keeps handing over money to support Brad's expensive hobby.
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