Originally posted by OhhPaigey Yeah, I've had to deal with some creepy stuff lmao.
By creepy, do you mean guys playing female characters sending you whispers of sweet nothings to your male characters?
Like people finding out my address, stalking me, getting my phone number, finding my characters on like every game, my Facebook, people sending me mail IRL, following me around different games, trying to send me money, trying to get me to quit my job to live with them, ect. And that's mainly just from WoW.
You wouldn't believe half the stories some of my guildys know/have been a part of rofl.
Heck, even some of the messages I've gotten on this forum would probably make you say 'wtf". XD
Sending you in-game mail, Sending you whispers, Sending E-mails
SHAME ON THEM....
Finding out your address, Getting your Phone number, Finding out every single game you play
SHAME ON YOU...
Me personally I don't understand why people stalk when traditionally speaking women have always fell for the guy that pays the least attention to them
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar In eq blacklists were only used by a very few guilds. The community at large knew of the lists but had never seen them abd for the most part didn't care. It was only afew guilds that even bothered with then. The idea that the blacklists actually worked for the server at large is a myth
Not true. Most of the jerks were well known. Claiming otherwise only makes me think you weren't there.
If in real life "six degrees of separation" theory states every person is six people away from knowing everyone through a friend of a friend. On a server with a few thousand people, its therefore highly unlikely that 1 of the 6 people in your group didn't know whether a guy was a known troll.
You are correct.
Everquest you had a reputation to uphold and not upholding it would give you and your guild a bad name. Today this doesn't matter much but back then a bad rep could prevent you from getting groups or invited to guilds or worst. As a Shadowknight I always kept my usefulness in mind (there were better choices for tank) so I always volunteered to pull or do corpse runs just to give my name a good shine so next time when i'm on the long waiting list for the Frenzied Ghoul in Lower Guk my kindness is remembered and i'm less likely to be maliciously shuffled down to the bottom of the list after 3 hours of waiting.
Precisely. In a game that revolved heavily around group progression, doing good deeds went a long way.
Originally posted by OhhPaigeyYeah, I've had to deal with some creepy stuff lmao.
By creepy, do you mean guys playing female characters sending you whispers of sweet nothings to your male characters?
Like people finding out my address, stalking me, getting my phone number, finding my characters on like every game, my Facebook, people sending me mail IRL, following me around different games, trying to send me money, trying to get me to quit my job to live with them, ect. And that's mainly just from WoW.
You wouldn't believe half the stories some of my guildys know/have been a part of rofl.
Heck, even some of the messages I've gotten on this forum would probably make you say 'wtf". XD
You should make sure all your friends know who he is. Maybe he is someone you met IRL and who is stalking you online.
I'm not sure whether I should be alarmed or amused that some idiots here are suggesting the solution is "for you to stop being hot."
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by OhhPaigeyYeah, I've had to deal with some creepy stuff lmao.
By creepy, do you mean guys playing female characters sending you whispers of sweet nothings to your male characters?
Like people finding out my address, stalking me, getting my phone number, finding my characters on like every game, my Facebook, people sending me mail IRL, following me around different games, trying to send me money, trying to get me to quit my job to live with them, ect. And that's mainly just from WoW.
You wouldn't believe half the stories some of my guildys know/have been a part of rofl.
Heck, even some of the messages I've gotten on this forum would probably make you say 'wtf". XD
You should make sure all your friends know who he is. Maybe he is someone you met IRL and who is stalking you online.
I'm not sure whether I should be alarmed or amused that some idiots here are suggesting the solution is "for you to stop being hot."
You're either alarmed or amused because you have no clue what they are suggesting.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You keep spouting that myth about reputation in eq. It is not true. Every day people in channels were yelling so and so is a scammer. And those jerks still managed to get good equipment. They were like car alarms today. Looked at one and ignored.
The majority did not ever see them or even care. Ifyou think they did you are wrong. It just tells me it matters to you abd your circle of friends. To the majority of the server by a very large margin. All that stuff was ignored.
I bet you less than 1 percent ever even saw a blacklist.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar You keep spouting that myth about reputation in eq. It is not true. Every day people in channels were yelling so and so is a scammer. And those jerks still managed to get good equipment. They were like car alarms today. Looked at one and ignored.
The majority did not ever see them or even care. Ifyou think they did you are wrong. It just tells me it matters to you abd your circle of friends. To the majority of the server by a very large margin. All that stuff was ignored.
I bet you less than 1 percent ever even saw a blacklist.
The fact that you think a blacklist has to be written down says everything. Stick to discussing the games you can at least appear to have played.
There are a lot of crazy people out there don't temp fate. It never hurts to have a low internet fingerprint and that goes for everyone.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
That is the price we have to pay for playing with strangers on the internet. And some companies will not cut the weeds if it means less people will be paying for the game.
The gaming industry today is Quantity > Quality.
Yup
time to wean myself away from mmo's anyways. So tired of all the crappy games and the genre is going down the toilet. Once mmo's went mainstream it was all over anyways. I used to know so many gamers that played mmo's. Now non of them do. They hate the games and the communities in them these days. I'm the last in my circle trying to find a good game but those good old days are really over. I have to come to terms with this soon.
Press that quit button then and solo in your instance ? if that does not sound like a punishment to you,it is really ok ,believe me,that is your dream come true MMO so enjoy.
MMOs are not dreams .. they are just entertainment .. but yeah .. I solo in instances all the time. In fact, i often ignore group request. And yes, not only it does not sound like a punishment .. it is great .. i do enjoy that often. In fact, I just had a solo instanced dungeon in D3 today .. loads of fun .. tweak a build and try new things (also because of a new gear drop).
And given by that group and solo poll on the other topic, I am not the only one .. may even be in the majority.
And back to harassment .. i would love to see how one can harass me or another in an instanced game like that. I have grouped before too .. but again, if there is anything i don't like for 5 seconds, i will quit and find another group (which takes just 5 seconds). In fact, other players are no different than intelligent NPCs that you can discard at will .. so how can they harass anyone?
You just nailed the whole thread just there. That's the problem. No players are NOT the same as NPCs. They are human beings with emotions. The idea that they do not exist beyond yourself is the problem with the internet, you don't see the damage you are doing. Most people have a conscience and some form of morality but when they think of human being as pieces of code that don't exist beyond their computer screen they can treat them with immunity to their conscience and morality.
Now I'm not saying ignoring someone asking to group you is harassment or hell even necessarily wrong in the slightest way but your still describing the attitude problem people have on the internet.
and you dont' get the point .. how can anyone treat another with impunity when such interactions are not even possible?
I did not claim that people are nice (in fact, there are pretty toxic people in games), but that harassment is not possible because it is programmed out, and not physically possible.
And we are talking about games ... if some strangers have an "attitude problem" when playing their games, and they do not affect me, why should i care?
People still play LoL (although not me) when the "community" is toxic, right? So clearly this "bad" attitude is not a problem preventing people to have fun.
No I got the point but then don't forget you then when on to say you've grouped and I assume you mean with human beings not some NPC lackey yet you claim there is no difference in the very next sentence. Now in almost any game that allows grouping, interaction between group members is present and even encouraged. So the interactions do exist and you specifically mentioned them the sentence before you claimed there was no difference between NPCs and humans. So I'll stand by everything I said.
Now why should you care? Because you are a member of the species, your society within that and I assume various different communities within that. If your neighbour went around verbally insulting people just to annoy people (ie the troll) in your street or you had someone selling illegal goods on your street corner and constantly yelling how good their deals were (ie the gold farmers/sellers/spammers) then I wouldn't need to explain why you should care. So the difference here is people can simply log off or ignore and granted it's a huge and an important difference. That said if I start verbally abusing someone or harassing them in a game before they get the chance to block me or if there are pressures for them not to block me (say they are part of a guild they enjoy and don't want to be driven off by a jerk like me or it is a team based game) then I can indeed do some damage (lets not forget that kids play these games either) and there is something terribly wrong when people don't put the blame on me and instead choose to put the blame on the kid I was harassing.
Now can people still have fun and do they? Sure. The Romans used to have fun watching people fight to the death for realz. That said it was a toxic social influence. LoL doesn't even register on the same scale but it's still toxic. The more someone is treated like shit the easier it becomes for them to assume that is either appropriate behaviour therefore treating everyone else like shit too and to lose faith in humanity which often leads to a similar outcome.
Originally posted by baphametfor example, if i was on a mob and someone came by to kill me, they would wait until that mob was dead and usually let me heal up and get mana back before proceeding to kick the crap out of me.
Nice fairy tale.
No seriously, it sounds so good that I really want to believe it.
Sadly, my own experience in EQ1, but also UO and AC1, is quite different, and your little story is maybe one in a million. Not saying it coudn't happen, but it was definitely not the generalization you are trying to make out of it.
And PvE wise, the elitism among raiders in EQ1 was terrible, and don't even get me started on the attitude of raiders vs non-raiders. It continued up to the beginning of WoW, until some genius at Blizzard added different difficulty levels and then LFR mode.
did you ever play on vallon zek? obviously not. no, it actually was the norm on that server. i could probably count on my hand how many times i was attacked while on a mob in the 4-5 years i played on VZ.
not talking about lowbie pvp/pve, people could then be anonymous and be dicks more often. but one thing is for sure, the grieving on that server was not common in my experience.
as far as elitism, like i said.....that's common in every single raid-centric MMO.....it is what it is, wow was no different and had a far far more toxic community that doesn't work together like the community in EQ did.
in wow you basically play the game with your guild and shit on everyone else, EQ was not like that, not even close.
are you really going to sit there and try to tell me that the community in EQ was worse than games like WOW? seriously?
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by baphametfor example, if i was on a mob and someone came by to kill me, they would wait until that mob was dead and usually let me heal up and get mana back before proceeding to kick the crap out of me.
If anyone ever wonders if people look at the older MMOs with a 'skewed' view, this is the cherry on the icing on the cake of nostalgia to link to.
On the off chance that you actually somehow believe that was the norm and you're not [specialposting]...
Just... WOW.
did you play on vallon zek? if so what was your character name and guild?
it was just so rare to be attacked while you were on a mob, that's just how that server worked. have you heard of LnS? p99 uses that same rule on their pvp server.
it means that if you kill a person you have to let them get their corpse and allow them to med up before leaving the zone for an hour.
you think a rule like that would ever work in any current MMO?
it was just one of the rules the community enforced and it was rarely broken. anyone that actually played on that server in its heyday knows what i am talking about.
No I got the point but then don't forget you then when on to say you've grouped and I assume you mean with human beings not some NPC lackey yet you claim there is no difference in the very next sentence. Now in almost any game that allows grouping, interaction between group members is present and even encouraged. So the interactions do exist and you specifically mentioned them the sentence before you claimed there was no difference between NPCs and humans. So I'll stand by everything I said.
Not interaction that can harass for more than 10 seconds. Tell me, in an instance group ... how can another person harass me for more than 10 seconds? They cannot kill me, cannot kill steal, cannot even pick up my loot (in some games). Restricted interactions ... get rid of harassment.
Plus, if they say anything I half like, i click "quit" and never see them again.
Now why should you care? Because you are a member of the species, your society within that and I assume various different communities within that. If your neighbour went around verbally insulting people just to annoy people (ie the troll) in your street or you had someone selling illegal goods on your street corner and constantly yelling how good their deals were (ie the gold farmers/sellers/spammers) then I wouldn't need to explain why you should care. So the difference here is people can simply log off or ignore and granted it's a huge and an important difference. That said if I start verbally abusing someone or harassing them in a game before they get the chance to block me or if there are pressures for them not to block me (say they are part of a guild they enjoy and don't want to be driven off by a jerk like me or it is a team based game) then I can indeed do some damage (lets not forget that kids play these games either) and there is something terribly wrong when people don't put the blame on me and instead choose to put the blame on the kid I was harassing.
So? An online game is not "my neighborhood". I cannot move out of my neighborhood without high cost. In an online game, one click and I won't see those whom I don't like forever.
In fact, online is *clearly* different from real world .. and all real world stuff does not apply. This whole thing about not be able to block is just balony. It literally take one click to do so. And if you succumb to pressure of not blocking bullies .. well that clearly is not my problem since you are the one who allows them to harass you.
And it is not blame .. it is just a matter of consequences. If you want to be a victim when you don't have to ... well .. I don't think that is a problem .. since that is your choice.
Now can people still have fun and do they? Sure. The Romans used to have fun watching people fight to the death for realz. That said it was a toxic social influence. LoL doesn't even register on the same scale but it's still toxic. The more someone is treated like shit the easier it becomes for them to assume that is either appropriate behaviour therefore treating everyone else like shit too and to lose faith in humanity which often leads to a similar outcome.
This .. i agree .. many online "community" is toxic. But so what .. just ignore them and play the game. And don't tell me online behavior is the same as RL because clearly it is not.
In fact, online is a good place for people to blow off steam so they can be nicer in the real world.
Losing faith in humanity because of some games? That is very silly in my books. There are much more important topics in humanity than just how people enjoy electronic entertainment.
No I got the point but then don't forget you then when on to say you've grouped and I assume you mean with human beings not some NPC lackey yet you claim there is no difference in the very next sentence. Now in almost any game that allows grouping, interaction between group members is present and even encouraged. So the interactions do exist and you specifically mentioned them the sentence before you claimed there was no difference between NPCs and humans. So I'll stand by everything I said.
Not interaction that can harass for more than 10 seconds. Tell me, in an instance group ... how can another person harass me for more than 10 seconds? They cannot kill me, cannot kill steal, cannot even pick up my loot (in some games). Restricted interactions ... get rid of harassment.
Plus, if they say anything I half like, i click "quit" and never see them again.
Now why should you care? Because you are a member of the species, your society within that and I assume various different communities within that. If your neighbour went around verbally insulting people just to annoy people (ie the troll) in your street or you had someone selling illegal goods on your street corner and constantly yelling how good their deals were (ie the gold farmers/sellers/spammers) then I wouldn't need to explain why you should care. So the difference here is people can simply log off or ignore and granted it's a huge and an important difference. That said if I start verbally abusing someone or harassing them in a game before they get the chance to block me or if there are pressures for them not to block me (say they are part of a guild they enjoy and don't want to be driven off by a jerk like me or it is a team based game) then I can indeed do some damage (lets not forget that kids play these games either) and there is something terribly wrong when people don't put the blame on me and instead choose to put the blame on the kid I was harassing.
So? An online game is not "my neighborhood". I cannot move out of my neighborhood without high cost. In an online game, one click and I won't see those whom I don't like forever.
In fact, online is *clearly* different from real world .. and all real world stuff does not apply. This whole thing about not be able to block is just balony. It literally take one click to do so. And if you succumb to pressure of not blocking bullies .. well that clearly is not my problem since you are the one who allows them to harass you.
And it is not blame .. it is just a matter of consequences. If you want to be a victim when you don't have to ... well .. I don't think that is a problem .. since that is your choice.
Now can people still have fun and do they? Sure. The Romans used to have fun watching people fight to the death for realz. That said it was a toxic social influence. LoL doesn't even register on the same scale but it's still toxic. The more someone is treated like shit the easier it becomes for them to assume that is either appropriate behaviour therefore treating everyone else like shit too and to lose faith in humanity which often leads to a similar outcome.
This .. i agree .. many online "community" is toxic. But so what .. just ignore them and play the game. And don't tell me online behavior is the same as RL because clearly it is not.
In fact, online is a good place for people to blow off steam so they can be nicer in the real world.
Losing faith in humanity because of some games? That is very silly in my books. There are much more important topics in humanity than just how people enjoy electronic entertainment.
I'm not sure I have the patience for this. You tell me first that there is no interaction now you succumb to the fact there is. So you tell me virtual life is not real life when I've already acknowledged the difference and also the problem with viewing it that way yet as I said you already ignored that part because you tried to claim there was no interaction at all.
Your whole arguement comes down to "it's not a problem because I can block someone and treat them as if they don't exist". Don't get me wrong I acknowledge there is a shread of truth, I can continually block people being trolls on games but the difference is I am aware they are humans and it does sour my opinion which is why I block them. You acknowledge it's toxic and you claim you don't assign blame. Rather then assign blame on those making it toxic you claim those not responsible are the ones who should face consequences.
Now I agree there are more important issues with humanity then "electronic behavior" but we are on MMORPG.com and therefore the discussion is appropriate but the way humans treat each other even online is indeed an issue for humanity especially as it encroaches further into our lives.
I'm not sure I have the patience for this. You tell me first that there is no interaction now you succumb to the fact there is. So you tell me virtual life is not real life when I've already acknowledged the difference and also the problem with viewing it that way yet as I said you already ignored that part because you tried to claim there was no interaction at all.
Your whole arguement comes down to "it's not a problem because I can block someone and treat them as if they don't exist". Don't get me wrong I acknowledge there is a shread of truth, I can continually block people being trolls on games but the difference is I am aware they are humans and it does sour my opinion which is why I block them. You acknowledge it's toxic and you claim you don't assign blame. Rather then assign blame on those making it toxic you claim those not responsible are the ones who should face consequences.
wait .. i never claim there is no interactions .. i claim interactions are now LIMITED. Let's be specific.
In EQ days, you can train. Now not possible.
In EQ days, you can kill-steal. Now not possible inside instances.
In EQ days, you can ninja-loot. Now not possible in some games (like WoW LFR).
So tell me, are interactions being more limited?
And yes, "it is not a problem because i can block someone" ... that is a very good argument, because if i block someone, he does not exist for me, right?
You should feel free to express yourself online without fear of being bullied or harassed. This includes avatar, username, whatever. Anyone that tries to tell you otherwise is dealing with his or her own insecurities.
On the other hand, better think three times before putting personal information out there, be it via website, private message, or forum post. I'll leave it to you to decide what constitutes personal information. I'm OK with displaying what town I live in, my age, and gender, but that's as far as I go. Just use common sense.
If you see a situation that could be taken advantage of, don't take advantage of it. That's especially true for us guys. I've had enough biology to understand that it's a pretty safe generalization that guys tend to have different motivations than women do. That applies to everything, internet included.
This concludes your daily ethics course, see you all around the next digital-existential crisis.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
There was always trolls, jerks in MMO's and there always will be.
As for Everquest. I remember being young in 99/00 playing Everquest and There will bad apples in there and a few times I saw some of the worst behavior I seen not only in a MMO, not only from a game but some of the worst behavior from any online community. However let me counter this by saying I met some Real Life friends though Everquest and have great memories from playing the game. I remember the community being great and people being friendly and just awesome, but I also remember some of the worst behavior I have seen on the internet.
Also RWT was so rampant on Everquest it had a higher GDP than China!
I do not play as much MMO's anymore and just like the "glory days" I have seen great people and seen horrible behavior
Also RWT was so rampant on Everquest it had a higher GDP than China!
Real world trade wasn't illegal in Everquest, it was only a few years after launch that SoE and Ebay changed their mind.
I'm just adding that, because I don't think everyone knows this, and your sentence makes it seem like players were doing something wrong, at the time, no one, neither Ebay or SoE, had a problem with it.
I'm not sure I have the patience for this. You tell me first that there is no interaction now you succumb to the fact there is. So you tell me virtual life is not real life when I've already acknowledged the difference and also the problem with viewing it that way yet as I said you already ignored that part because you tried to claim there was no interaction at all.
Your whole arguement comes down to "it's not a problem because I can block someone and treat them as if they don't exist". Don't get me wrong I acknowledge there is a shread of truth, I can continually block people being trolls on games but the difference is I am aware they are humans and it does sour my opinion which is why I block them. You acknowledge it's toxic and you claim you don't assign blame. Rather then assign blame on those making it toxic you claim those not responsible are the ones who should face consequences.
wait .. i never claim there is no interactions .. i claim interactions are now LIMITED. Let's be specific.
In EQ days, you can train. Now not possible.
In EQ days, you can kill-steal. Now not possible inside instances.
In EQ days, you can ninja-loot. Now not possible in some games (like WoW LFR).
So tell me, are interactions being more limited?
And yes, "it is not a problem because i can block someone" ... that is a very good argument, because if i block someone, he does not exist for me, right?
First of all I apologize for saying that I don't have the patients for this but I do believe I'll just be repeating myself at this stage and I'm not convinced that I shouldn't stand by anything I have said other than admitting my own lack of patients. You did originally claim that there was no interaction and dismissed the points I made as a result, points that became relevant again after the conversation had continued. I'll quote it below.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ozmono
Originally posted by nariusseldon
MMOs are not dreams .. they are just entertainment .. but yeah .. I solo in instances all the time. In fact, i often ignore group request. And yes, not only it does not sound like a punishment .. it is great .. i do enjoy that often. In fact, I just had a solo instanced dungeon in D3 today .. loads of fun .. tweak a build and try new things (also because of a new gear drop).
And given by that group and solo poll on the other topic, I am not the only one .. may even be in the majority.
And back to harassment .. i would love to see how one can harass me or another in an instanced game like that. I have grouped before too .. but again, if there is anything i don't like for 5 seconds, i will quit and find another group (which takes just 5 seconds). In fact, other players are no different than intelligent NPCs that you can discard at will .. so how can they harass anyone?
You just nailed the whole thread just there. That's the problem. No players are NOT the same as NPCs. They are human beings with emotions. The idea that they do not exist beyond yourself is the problem with the internet, you don't see the damage you are doing. Most people have a conscience and some form of morality but when they think of human being as pieces of code that don't exist beyond their computer screen they can treat them with immunity to their conscience and morality.
Now I'm not saying ignoring someone asking to group you is harassment or hell even necessarily wrong in the slightest way but your still describing the attitude problem people have on the internet.
and you dont' get the point .. how can anyone treat another with impunity when such interactions are not even possible?
I did not claim that people are nice (in fact, there are pretty toxic people in games), but that harassment is not possible because it is programmed out, and not physically possible.
And we are talking about games ... if some strangers have an "attitude problem" when playing their games, and they do not affect me, why should i care?
People still play LoL (although not me) when the "community" is toxic, right? So clearly this "bad" attitude is not a problem preventing people to have fun.
So here you say such interactions aren't possible, when they are possible and it does happen. Okay so now you say they are just limited and to be fair (especially if I put you in your original context) it is true but that doesn't mean it's not possible and therefore doesn't invalidate my points. I made a mistake quoting you due to the context you used, because my arguements were always going to be boxed in somewhat as a result.
Such interactions are indeed more limited in the playstyle and type of game you advocate for. The only real reason I engaged you specifically is because the following line I will quote, I believe, articulates an attitude problem (or atleast misguidance) some people have across the broad spectrum of the internet "In fact, other players are no different than intelligent NPCs that you can discard at will .. so how can they harass anyone?" I've already discussed why I think it's a problem and I'll concede it applies less to the context you would like it in, then to the broader conversation of this thread and greater still to the broader interactions of the entire internet.
So here you say such interactions aren't possible, when they are possible and it does happen. Okay so now you say they are just limited and to be fair (especially if I put you in your original context) it is true but that doesn't mean it's not possible and therefore doesn't invalidate my points. I made a mistake quoting you due to the context you used, because my arguements were always going to be boxed in somewhat as a result.
What? Training is not possible. Tell me how someone can train me in WoW, or in Marvel Heroes? That totally invalidate your points.
Also ninjaing .. tell me how ninjaing is possible in marvel heroes.
Bad interactions gone. Good ones remains. (In this case, bad = can be used to harass, good = cannot). That is pretty obvious. You can keep arguing, but i have not be harassed even once in Marvel Heroes .. and i frankly don't see how that is even possible.
In fact, i will make you a bet. Come and harass me in Marvel Heroes. I bet $100 you cannot annoy me for more than 15 seconds.
So here you say such interactions aren't possible, when they are possible and it does happen. Okay so now you say they are just limited and to be fair (especially if I put you in your original context) it is true but that doesn't mean it's not possible and therefore doesn't invalidate my points. I made a mistake quoting you due to the context you used, because my arguements were always going to be boxed in somewhat as a result.
What? Training is not possible. Tell me how someone can train me in WoW, or in Marvel Heroes? That totally invalidate your points.
Also ninjaing .. tell me how ninjaing is possible in marvel heroes.
Bad interactions gone. Good ones remains. (In this case, bad = can be used to harass, good = cannot). That is pretty obvious. You can keep arguing, but i have not be harassed even once in Marvel Heroes .. and i frankly don't see how that is even possible.
In fact, i will make you a bet. Come and harass me in Marvel Heroes. I bet $100 you cannot annoy me for more than 15 seconds.
Haven't played marvel heroes, is that what you were refering to when you said you've grouped and that the players were no different to NPCs? As we've already discussed it was in response to you saying you've grouped. I made the point that almost every game that allows grouping allows interaction and encourages it. I've played tons of games with grouping and I'm struggling to think of any that don't allow chat. If I can group and chat to someone there is the possibility I can verbally insult them to differing degrees.
So here you say such interactions aren't possible, when they are possible and it does happen. Okay so now you say they are just limited and to be fair (especially if I put you in your original context) it is true but that doesn't mean it's not possible and therefore doesn't invalidate my points. I made a mistake quoting you due to the context you used, because my arguements were always going to be boxed in somewhat as a result.
What? Training is not possible. Tell me how someone can train me in WoW, or in Marvel Heroes? That totally invalidate your points.
Also ninjaing .. tell me how ninjaing is possible in marvel heroes.
Bad interactions gone. Good ones remains. (In this case, bad = can be used to harass, good = cannot). That is pretty obvious. You can keep arguing, but i have not be harassed even once in Marvel Heroes .. and i frankly don't see how that is even possible.
In fact, i will make you a bet. Come and harass me in Marvel Heroes. I bet $100 you cannot annoy me for more than 15 seconds.
Haven't played marvel heroes, is that what you were refering to when you said you've grouped and that the players were no different to NPCs? As we've already discussed it was in response to you saying you've grouped. I made the point that almost every game that allows grouping allows interaction and encourages it. I've played tons of games with grouping and I'm struggling to think of any that don't allow chat. If I can group and chat to someone there is the possibility I can verbally insult them to differing degrees.
so? Can you do that to me for more than 15 second? You are one-click away from being non-existing to me.
And there is virtually no other possibility to harass me. And since you did not address, i assume you concede the fact that all the other types of griefing (training, kill steal, ninja loot ...) are no longer possible in these new games.
Thinking chat is interaction enough to harass .. is just silly in today's world. In fact, back in the horrible EQ days ... people are harassed by trains and other stuff, NOT chat.
Harassing through chat is quite impossible these days unless you make alts then it's still about another one sentence from ignore again. I used to love WoW or was it City of X where it said 'so and so is ignoring you'. I felt that gave a nice middle finger to whomever was trying to continue their harassment. Nothing like knowing you're being ignored to let you know you are that insignificant to the person you're trying to piss off.
So here you say such interactions aren't possible, when they are possible and it does happen. Okay so now you say they are just limited and to be fair (especially if I put you in your original context) it is true but that doesn't mean it's not possible and therefore doesn't invalidate my points. I made a mistake quoting you due to the context you used, because my arguements were always going to be boxed in somewhat as a result.
What? Training is not possible. Tell me how someone can train me in WoW, or in Marvel Heroes? That totally invalidate your points.
Also ninjaing .. tell me how ninjaing is possible in marvel heroes.
Bad interactions gone. Good ones remains. (In this case, bad = can be used to harass, good = cannot). That is pretty obvious. You can keep arguing, but i have not be harassed even once in Marvel Heroes .. and i frankly don't see how that is even possible.
In fact, i will make you a bet. Come and harass me in Marvel Heroes. I bet $100 you cannot annoy me for more than 15 seconds.
Haven't played marvel heroes, is that what you were refering to when you said you've grouped and that the players were no different to NPCs? As we've already discussed it was in response to you saying you've grouped. I made the point that almost every game that allows grouping allows interaction and encourages it. I've played tons of games with grouping and I'm struggling to think of any that don't allow chat. If I can group and chat to someone there is the possibility I can verbally insult them to differing degrees.
so? Can you do that to me for more than 15 second? You are one-click away from being non-existing to me.
And there is virtually no other possibility to harass me. And since you did not address, i assume you concede the fact that all the other types of griefing (training, kill steal, ninja loot ...) are no longer possible in these new games.
Thinking chat is interaction enough to harass .. is just silly in today's world. In fact, back in the horrible EQ days ... people are harassed by trains and other stuff, NOT chat.
You said A and use it as a basis to ignore what I said, you denied saying A, I quote you where you say A, you have later said B and try to make out as if that is what you said in the first place. It had nothing to do with trains and EQ when it was said. And as for your agenda, I've already given you what you want mate if you'd just read what was actually said. I've said that the games and playstyle you advocate for have less interaction then many of the alternative. But if that's not enough, kill stealing, ninja loot and so on are a thing of the past (for the most part) even though if you deny I can harass someone verbally through chat I find it odd that you would consider kill stealing harassment.
Comments
Sending you in-game mail, Sending you whispers, Sending E-mails
SHAME ON THEM....
Finding out your address, Getting your Phone number, Finding out every single game you play
SHAME ON YOU...
Me personally I don't understand why people stalk when traditionally speaking women have always fell for the guy that pays the least attention to them
Precisely. In a game that revolved heavily around group progression, doing good deeds went a long way.
You should make sure all your friends know who he is. Maybe he is someone you met IRL and who is stalking you online.
I'm not sure whether I should be alarmed or amused that some idiots here are suggesting the solution is "for you to stop being hot."
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
You're either alarmed or amused because you have no clue what they are suggesting.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The majority did not ever see them or even care. Ifyou think they did you are wrong. It just tells me it matters to you abd your circle of friends. To the majority of the server by a very large margin. All that stuff was ignored.
I bet you less than 1 percent ever even saw a blacklist.
You should be alarmed that this was your take away from what others have said.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The fact that you think a blacklist has to be written down says everything. Stick to discussing the games you can at least appear to have played.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yup
time to wean myself away from mmo's anyways. So tired of all the crappy games and the genre is going down the toilet. Once mmo's went mainstream it was all over anyways. I used to know so many gamers that played mmo's. Now non of them do. They hate the games and the communities in them these days. I'm the last in my circle trying to find a good game but those good old days are really over. I have to come to terms with this soon.
No I got the point but then don't forget you then when on to say you've grouped and I assume you mean with human beings not some NPC lackey yet you claim there is no difference in the very next sentence. Now in almost any game that allows grouping, interaction between group members is present and even encouraged. So the interactions do exist and you specifically mentioned them the sentence before you claimed there was no difference between NPCs and humans. So I'll stand by everything I said.
Now why should you care? Because you are a member of the species, your society within that and I assume various different communities within that. If your neighbour went around verbally insulting people just to annoy people (ie the troll) in your street or you had someone selling illegal goods on your street corner and constantly yelling how good their deals were (ie the gold farmers/sellers/spammers) then I wouldn't need to explain why you should care. So the difference here is people can simply log off or ignore and granted it's a huge and an important difference. That said if I start verbally abusing someone or harassing them in a game before they get the chance to block me or if there are pressures for them not to block me (say they are part of a guild they enjoy and don't want to be driven off by a jerk like me or it is a team based game) then I can indeed do some damage (lets not forget that kids play these games either) and there is something terribly wrong when people don't put the blame on me and instead choose to put the blame on the kid I was harassing.
Now can people still have fun and do they? Sure. The Romans used to have fun watching people fight to the death for realz. That said it was a toxic social influence. LoL doesn't even register on the same scale but it's still toxic. The more someone is treated like shit the easier it becomes for them to assume that is either appropriate behaviour therefore treating everyone else like shit too and to lose faith in humanity which often leads to a similar outcome.
did you ever play on vallon zek? obviously not. no, it actually was the norm on that server. i could probably count on my hand how many times i was attacked while on a mob in the 4-5 years i played on VZ.
not talking about lowbie pvp/pve, people could then be anonymous and be dicks more often. but one thing is for sure, the grieving on that server was not common in my experience.
as far as elitism, like i said.....that's common in every single raid-centric MMO.....it is what it is, wow was no different and had a far far more toxic community that doesn't work together like the community in EQ did.
in wow you basically play the game with your guild and shit on everyone else, EQ was not like that, not even close.
are you really going to sit there and try to tell me that the community in EQ was worse than games like WOW? seriously?
quit trollin bro.
If anyone ever wonders if people look at the older MMOs with a 'skewed' view, this is the cherry on the icing on the cake of nostalgia to link to.
On the off chance that you actually somehow believe that was the norm and you're not [specialposting]...
Just... WOW.
did you play on vallon zek? if so what was your character name and guild?
it was just so rare to be attacked while you were on a mob, that's just how that server worked. have you heard of LnS? p99 uses that same rule on their pvp server.
it means that if you kill a person you have to let them get their corpse and allow them to med up before leaving the zone for an hour.
you think a rule like that would ever work in any current MMO?
it was just one of the rules the community enforced and it was rarely broken. anyone that actually played on that server in its heyday knows what i am talking about.
I believe the advent of F2P has brought this on somewhat, more kids are now playing and they think it is fun to harass someone
I'm not sure I have the patience for this. You tell me first that there is no interaction now you succumb to the fact there is. So you tell me virtual life is not real life when I've already acknowledged the difference and also the problem with viewing it that way yet as I said you already ignored that part because you tried to claim there was no interaction at all.
Your whole arguement comes down to "it's not a problem because I can block someone and treat them as if they don't exist". Don't get me wrong I acknowledge there is a shread of truth, I can continually block people being trolls on games but the difference is I am aware they are humans and it does sour my opinion which is why I block them. You acknowledge it's toxic and you claim you don't assign blame. Rather then assign blame on those making it toxic you claim those not responsible are the ones who should face consequences.
Now I agree there are more important issues with humanity then "electronic behavior" but we are on MMORPG.com and therefore the discussion is appropriate but the way humans treat each other even online is indeed an issue for humanity especially as it encroaches further into our lives.
wait .. i never claim there is no interactions .. i claim interactions are now LIMITED. Let's be specific.
In EQ days, you can train. Now not possible.
In EQ days, you can kill-steal. Now not possible inside instances.
In EQ days, you can ninja-loot. Now not possible in some games (like WoW LFR).
So tell me, are interactions being more limited?
And yes, "it is not a problem because i can block someone" ... that is a very good argument, because if i block someone, he does not exist for me, right?
You should feel free to express yourself online without fear of being bullied or harassed. This includes avatar, username, whatever. Anyone that tries to tell you otherwise is dealing with his or her own insecurities.
On the other hand, better think three times before putting personal information out there, be it via website, private message, or forum post. I'll leave it to you to decide what constitutes personal information. I'm OK with displaying what town I live in, my age, and gender, but that's as far as I go. Just use common sense.
If you see a situation that could be taken advantage of, don't take advantage of it. That's especially true for us guys. I've had enough biology to understand that it's a pretty safe generalization that guys tend to have different motivations than women do. That applies to everything, internet included.
This concludes your daily ethics course, see you all around the next digital-existential crisis.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
There was always trolls, jerks in MMO's and there always will be.
As for Everquest. I remember being young in 99/00 playing Everquest and There will bad apples in there and a few times I saw some of the worst behavior I seen not only in a MMO, not only from a game but some of the worst behavior from any online community. However let me counter this by saying I met some Real Life friends though Everquest and have great memories from playing the game. I remember the community being great and people being friendly and just awesome, but I also remember some of the worst behavior I have seen on the internet.
Also RWT was so rampant on Everquest it had a higher GDP than China!
I do not play as much MMO's anymore and just like the "glory days" I have seen great people and seen horrible behavior
Real world trade wasn't illegal in Everquest, it was only a few years after launch that SoE and Ebay changed their mind.
I'm just adding that, because I don't think everyone knows this, and your sentence makes it seem like players were doing something wrong, at the time, no one, neither Ebay or SoE, had a problem with it.
First of all I apologize for saying that I don't have the patients for this but I do believe I'll just be repeating myself at this stage and I'm not convinced that I shouldn't stand by anything I have said other than admitting my own lack of patients. You did originally claim that there was no interaction and dismissed the points I made as a result, points that became relevant again after the conversation had continued. I'll quote it below.
So here you say such interactions aren't possible, when they are possible and it does happen. Okay so now you say they are just limited and to be fair (especially if I put you in your original context) it is true but that doesn't mean it's not possible and therefore doesn't invalidate my points. I made a mistake quoting you due to the context you used, because my arguements were always going to be boxed in somewhat as a result.
Such interactions are indeed more limited in the playstyle and type of game you advocate for. The only real reason I engaged you specifically is because the following line I will quote, I believe, articulates an attitude problem (or atleast misguidance) some people have across the broad spectrum of the internet "In fact, other players are no different than intelligent NPCs that you can discard at will .. so how can they harass anyone?" I've already discussed why I think it's a problem and I'll concede it applies less to the context you would like it in, then to the broader conversation of this thread and greater still to the broader interactions of the entire internet.
What? Training is not possible. Tell me how someone can train me in WoW, or in Marvel Heroes? That totally invalidate your points.
Also ninjaing .. tell me how ninjaing is possible in marvel heroes.
Bad interactions gone. Good ones remains. (In this case, bad = can be used to harass, good = cannot). That is pretty obvious. You can keep arguing, but i have not be harassed even once in Marvel Heroes .. and i frankly don't see how that is even possible.
In fact, i will make you a bet. Come and harass me in Marvel Heroes. I bet $100 you cannot annoy me for more than 15 seconds.
Haven't played marvel heroes, is that what you were refering to when you said you've grouped and that the players were no different to NPCs? As we've already discussed it was in response to you saying you've grouped. I made the point that almost every game that allows grouping allows interaction and encourages it. I've played tons of games with grouping and I'm struggling to think of any that don't allow chat. If I can group and chat to someone there is the possibility I can verbally insult them to differing degrees.
so? Can you do that to me for more than 15 second? You are one-click away from being non-existing to me.
And there is virtually no other possibility to harass me. And since you did not address, i assume you concede the fact that all the other types of griefing (training, kill steal, ninja loot ...) are no longer possible in these new games.
Thinking chat is interaction enough to harass .. is just silly in today's world. In fact, back in the horrible EQ days ... people are harassed by trains and other stuff, NOT chat.
You said A and use it as a basis to ignore what I said, you denied saying A, I quote you where you say A, you have later said B and try to make out as if that is what you said in the first place. It had nothing to do with trains and EQ when it was said. And as for your agenda, I've already given you what you want mate if you'd just read what was actually said. I've said that the games and playstyle you advocate for have less interaction then many of the alternative. But if that's not enough, kill stealing, ninja loot and so on are a thing of the past (for the most part) even though if you deny I can harass someone verbally through chat I find it odd that you would consider kill stealing harassment.