Games that release poorly seldom pick up players as they go along...they get given up as bad jobs.
Good thing DDO has been on pre-order best seller lists for a long time.
When I say content, I'm not talking about adding extra quests for higher levels (or alt-playing lower levels), I'm talking about the FACT that there is ONLY 1 thing to do in the whole game! That is the content that is lacking; it makes the game extremely one-dimensional and will get old rapidly!
Very true, the game provides a focused play-style. There are no mini games like crafting, vehicle combat, or PvP. It would have been nice to provide some alternate form of gametype, but then again I'd rather not have a half-baked crafting system put in to keep me playing.
Not only that, but the current "patch" is the one that is going to be RELEASED! The current version is not unplayable, but in comparison to nearly every other (pay to play) MMO I've tried it is drastically worse! For instance, pressing the TAB button (the one that targets closest enemy, or flicks through enemies) currently targets DEAD mobs!!! This is terrible, and is a problem that was introduced in the FINAL patch! You cannot release a game with a bug like this in it!
They already fixed that, your information is out of data. "You cannot release a game with a bug like this in it!" I think you play too many console games and Blizzard titles.
Turbine has NOT produced a game that is anywhere near the standard even of an MMO that was released a year ago. It doesn't have a customizable UI! In fact, the way it's been designed you can't even put dual-wielding weapons in the same "slot" so that they are equipped together, you have to go into the paper-doll interface and manually MOVE the second weapon in! UNACCEPTABLE! And IMHO, they won't be able to fix this without massive redesign either (as has been shown by the fact that they've ignored it with all their patches so far) as it appears they've made tiles for each inventory item, WHICH CANNOT BE stacked in the UI.
Not sure if you know but WoW is not the standard but the exception. If every company that makes games would go with the "when it's done" approach your argument would have some force... unfortunatly that is not the case and 80% of games are pushed out the door too early. This is especially true of MMOs.
At the moment you can't even get chat channels for your party or area or anything. Shoddy, Shoddy, Shoddy. You'd expect a game company with so much experience to have done a much better job on such a high-profile franchise. As it is, it's just a cobbled together, unprofessional looking, heap of garbage code.
The chat channels works perfect, there wore some problems with the chat server going down but they were seldom and lasted only a few minutes, spreading disinformation is not nice. Have your opinion, but spearing false information is something I regard as a crime against humanity.
(EDIT: Forgot to address your first point...Just because it's sold pre-orders, means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, a bad release means a lot of the early adopters will leave from dislike/disinterest and dropping server pops does nothing to welcome later adopters who just won't bother. I hope it does well, but releasing a poorly produced game does nothing to enhance success rates. A poll was recently done on the Euro Beta forums and only 25% of the Euro beta players think that DDO is READY for release!!)
Sorry Burrek, but I'm in the Euro Beta, and they just patched the servers with the latest patch...
There's more bugs now than there were before. Of course, EU servers get old versions of US patches, so I'm sure it's all fixed by now. (And there's a hotfix coming in on the Euro servers tonight, so a lot of them will be fixed for us too)
Still, all in all, the game is of a fairly poor standard and has a lack of things to do. Well, only one thing to do really. Plus, it's not only WoW that has UI customization features, EQ2 has them as well. And GW's interface is second to none (doesn't need any customization to make it good).
Basically DDO has about the same standard of content and gameplay as GW (except with worse interface, and not as pretty or on as stable servers), but unlike GW it doesn't have PvP to fall back on once you finish the missions. Plus DDO is going to limit your play to a much smaller group of players, so if you end up with a level 5 character on a server where you don't find good people to group with you're relegated to starting all over again on a new server.
(A couple of things I really like about DDO though: variation in types of armor (even amongst the same labelled/style), and D&D character creation rules. Though D&D rules overall have been rather badly corrupted...definitely didn't hold to "if it ain't broke don't fix it" like they said they would.)
Originally posted by burrek Originally posted by hadz Games that release poorly seldom pick up players as they go along...they get given up as bad jobs. Good thing DDO has been on pre-order best seller lists for a long time. When I say content, I'm not talking about adding extra quests for higher levels (or alt-playing lower levels), I'm talking about the FACT that there is ONLY 1 thing to do in the whole game! That is the content that is lacking; it makes the game extremely one-dimensional and will get old rapidly! Very true, the game provides a focused play-style. There are no mini games like crafting, vehicle combat, or PvP. It would have been nice to provide some alternate form of gametype, but then again I'd rather not have a half-baked crafting system put in to keep me playing. Not only that, but the current "patch" is the one that is going to be RELEASED! The current version is not unplayable, but in comparison to nearly every other (pay to play) MMO I've tried it is drastically worse! For instance, pressing the TAB button (the one that targets closest enemy, or flicks through enemies) currently targets DEAD mobs!!! This is terrible, and is a problem that was introduced in the FINAL patch! You cannot release a game with a bug like this in it! They already fixed that, your information is out of data. "You cannot release a game with a bug like this in it!" I think you play too many console games and Blizzard titles. Turbine has NOT produced a game that is anywhere near the standard even of an MMO that was released a year ago. It doesn't have a customizable UI! In fact, the way it's been designed you can't even put dual-wielding weapons in the same "slot" so that they are equipped together, you have to go into the paper-doll interface and manually MOVE the second weapon in! UNACCEPTABLE! And IMHO, they won't be able to fix this without massive redesign either (as has been shown by the fact that they've ignored it with all their patches so far) as it appears they've made tiles for each inventory item, WHICH CANNOT BE stacked in the UI. Not sure if you know but WoW is not the standard but the exception. If every company that makes games would go with the "when it's done" approach your argument would have some force... unfortunatly that is not the case and 80% of games are pushed out the door too early. This is especially true of MMOs. At the moment you can't even get chat channels for your party or area or anything. Shoddy, Shoddy, Shoddy. You'd expect a game company with so much experience to have done a much better job on such a high-profile franchise. As it is, it's just a cobbled together, unprofessional looking, heap of garbage code. The chat channels works perfect, there wore some problems with the chat server going down but they were seldom and lasted only a few minutes, spreading disinformation is not nice. Have your opinion, but spearing false information is something I regard as a crime against humanity.Ease up on the Mountain Dew.
All I see here are the rantings of a DDO fanboi. Excuses & speculation instead of facts. We all shouldn't get so excited about this, however, for many of us D&D is a classic namesake and example of all that you would expect and love from a roleplaying game be it Final Fantasy or Dungeon Seige. To see it disgraced and tarnished in such a way, definately strikes a nerve. I suppose if you were starving, you would eat trash and since there are no new mmorpgs coming out at this time to choose, I can sympathize with overlooking flaws to play a game; but trash is free for the taking and this is not. If I were in a resturaunt paying for a meal that looked/tasted/smelled like trash, I would complain, who would not?
If this game was without a monthly fee I'm very sure it would go over much better and many flaws would be overlooked. as it stands the product doesn't even warrant a purchase as a stand alone game, if they made a decent game with multiplayer capabilities but a more fleshed out solo experience with npc parties it would go over much better, but you see that game would not be DDO, it would be entirely something else.
So far anyone supporting this is claiming the emporer has clothes, when he clearly does not. Using any excuse they can to make themselves feel better about this game, why? People have claimed they are more intelligent, more noble, more mature to appreciate this game. Even if this was not named after D&D, it would still fail to deliver up to expectations.
There are arguments that, this is good for casuals, if your that casual to appreciate DDO? How many months will you pay $15 a pop for? Since it took 2 days about 2-3 hours each to get to level 3 with a set of the expensive full plate, how long do you think it will take to get to level 10. If you don't play that much to get there so fast? Do you think you are getting your moneys worth for the amount of entertainment time?
The list of negatives go on and on, they far outweigh anything positive about this game. Who cares about World of Warcraft, it has nothing to do with this game, in and of itself DDO is subpar period.
hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting
So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud.
(oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
Originally posted by burrek hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
I call you a fanboi, becase you will not concede that there are flaws in DDO in reference to your previous posts. You have yet to propose any rebuttal with hard facts as the game is now and not what it will be when fixed or patched or expanded upon in the future. From all your posts I get the impression DDO/Turbine can do no wrong. Respond to my points about the game in comparison to it's peers that it closely resembles and provide your argument on why DDO is superior.
If you want to say that I am a Troll and don't deserve that respect, well I will have to say that is a major cop out, and you by default prove that you are fanboi and don't have any valid proof that DDO is a superior product today(not 2 years from now)then anything similar on the market. Your posts are all based on your personal views that are biased.
If you think my trolling speaks volumes about me, I would have to say the same for your avatar.
Originally posted by burrek hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
I call you a fanboi, becase you will not concede that there are flaws in DDO in reference to your previous posts. You have yet to propose any rebuttal with hard facts as the game is now and not what it will be when fixed or patched or expanded upon in the future. From all your posts I get the impression DDO/Turbine can do no wrong. Respond to my points about the game in comparison to it's peers that it closely resembles and provide your argument on why DDO is superior.
If you want to say that I am a Troll and don't deserve that respect, well I will have to say that is a major cop out, and you by default prove that you are fanboi and don't have any valid proof that DDO is a superior product today(not 2 years from now)then anything similar on the market. Your posts are all based on your personal views that are biased.
If you think my trolling speaks volumes about me, I would have to say the same for your avatar.
You derailed my thread. Not that it matters now though. Anyways, you speak of providing valid proof, yet you yourself provide none. All I've seen from you are claims of fact without any evidence to prove it. I am playing the beta "right now" and I don't see anything wrong with it yet. This game is in beta and plays just as well as the other many other mmo's I have played along with WoW, which I just quit since I liked DDO better.
It is also worth saying that it is nearly impossible to provide "true" proof to anything any of us says. You would have to take screen shots of bugs to prove it, but then I could go and take screen shots to disprove it since most bugs are situational and happen only seldomly. (going off of bugs in general in most games)
The burden of proof relies on your shoulders. It is much easier to prove that something is wrong than it is to prove something is right with a product. Being that you are 32, and assuming you went to college, you would know this already.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by FullMetalAlcOriginally posted by burrekhmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interestingSo I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)I call you a fanboi, becase you will not concede that there are flaws in DDO in reference to your previous posts. You have yet to propose any rebuttal with hard facts as the game is now and not what it will be when fixed or patched or expanded upon in the future. From all your posts I get the impression DDO/Turbine can do no wrong. Respond to my points about the game in comparison to it's peers that it closely resembles and provide your argument on why DDO is superior. If you want to say that I am a Troll and don't deserve that respect, well I will have to say that is a major cop out, and you by default prove that you are fanboi and don't have any valid proof that DDO is a superior product today(not 2 years from now)then anything similar on the market. Your posts are all based on your personal views that are biased. If you think my trolling speaks volumes about me, I would have to say the same for your avatar. You derailed my thread. Not that it matters now though. Anyways, you speak of providing valid proof, yet you yourself provide none. All I've seen from you are claims of fact without any evidence to prove it. I am playing the beta "right now" and I don't see anything wrong with it yet. This game is in beta and plays just as well as the other many other mmo's I have played along with WoW, which I just quit since I liked DDO better. It is also worth saying that it is nearly impossible to provide "true" proof to anything any of us says. You would have to take screen shots of bugs to prove it, but then I could go and take screen shots to disprove it since most bugs are situational and happen only seldomly. (going off of bugs in general in most games) The burden of proof relies on your shoulders. It is much easier to prove that something is wrong than it is to prove something is right with a product. Being that you are 32, and assuming you went to college, you would know this already.
Do you always use your real information on msg boards?
Anyway, Hopefully everyone posting comments has played the beta of DDO at some point in the last month. Everyon has an experience and that experience no matter how diluted becomes the truth for the moment. I am not asking for screen captures of bugs and what not, we are discussing the merits of the game as a whole. Can you, or can you not provide an unadulterated view based on the truth of your experience and still concede the flaws brought up are not present in comparison to the closest peers of this game in it's marketplace? I don't want to hear that "they are not flaws but a different design that you just don't appreciate", that is weak and is what has been regurgitated over and over. This view is especially prevelant when you quote unquote fanbois are backed into a corner. Please compare this game to Guild Wars or Diablo, and explain to us all why you believe DDO is a better game comparing the similarities and inovations of each.
You derailed my thread. Not that it matters now though. Anyways, you speak of providing valid proof, yet you yourself provide none. All I've seen from you are claims of fact without any evidence to prove it. I am playing the beta "right now" and I don't see anything wrong with it yet. This game is in beta and plays just as well as the other many other mmo's I have played along with WoW, which I just quit since I liked DDO better. It is also worth saying that it is nearly impossible to provide "true" proof to anything any of us says. You would have to take screen shots of bugs to prove it, but then I could go and take screen shots to disprove it since most bugs are situational and happen only seldomly. (going off of bugs in general in most games) The burden of proof relies on your shoulders. It is much easier to prove that something is wrong than it is to prove something is right with a product. Being that you are 32, and assuming you went to college, you would know this already.
Not to take either side... But why is it on his shoulders to prove anything. If anything, it should be equally on both your shoulders. Without any proof on your side, why should I believe your position? After all it is only an opinion with out proof. And what does it matter which side is easier to prove? You were the one who started this thread, therefore the burden should be one you...
Originally posted by burrek hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
I call you a fanboi, becase you will not concede that there are flaws in DDO in reference to your previous posts. You have yet to propose any rebuttal with hard facts as the game is now and not what it will be when fixed or patched or expanded upon in the future. From all your posts I get the impression DDO/Turbine can do no wrong. Respond to my points about the game in comparison to it's peers that it closely resembles and provide your argument on why DDO is superior.
If you want to say that I am a Troll and don't deserve that respect, well I will have to say that is a major cop out, and you by default prove that you are fanboi and don't have any valid proof that DDO is a superior product today(not 2 years from now)then anything similar on the market. Your posts are all based on your personal views that are biased.
If you think my trolling speaks volumes about me, I would have to say the same for your avatar.
You did it anyway, almost made me chuckle out loud
(even though that was amusing I still think you need to be beaten with a stick, death to the tolls!)
edit... to add something to the thread:
Nobody has claimed that DDO does not have flaws, to claim such a thing would be as bad as to be troll.
Nobody is ignoring the various bugs and interface design issues, they are there. The question is: do the pros outweight the cons? A signle fault does not destroy a game... matter of fact I do not know of a game without flaws. As long as a game remains fun it can have a billion bugs, poor interface, stone age graphics, no sound and show you commercials every 5 minutes. If a game is not fun then it does not matter what features it has.
Now, if there is a specific feature that you think makes the game un-fun then maybe you should consider wether the game is fun at all. If a single item can outweigh the pros then apparently the pros are not strong enaugh.
To summerize: there are flaws, wether you look past them or not depends on the fun factor.
Originally posted by burrek hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
No.. he's right. You're more apologetic for this game than anyone I've seen. Opinion is one thing, but excuses are unfounded. "Most MMO's are released 80% done". NO excuse. WoW showed with 5 million subscribers HOW MUCH we demand a working game when we pay for it.
NC Soft knows better as well. That's why Bliz and NC are the #1 and #2 game companies out there. $OE isn't learning this and they're spiraling the bowl. Turbine's in the same bowl if they keep this crap up.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by burrek hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
No.. he's right. You're more apologetic for this game than anyone I've seen. Opinion is one thing, but excuses are unfounded. "Most MMO's are released 80% done". NO excuse. WoW showed with 5 million subscribers HOW MUCH we demand a working game when we pay for it.
NC Soft knows better as well. That's why Bliz and NC are the #1 and #2 game companies out there. $OE isn't learning this and they're spiraling the bowl. Turbine's in the same bowl if they keep this crap up.
I have to agree with you on that one. A finished product is always nice.
One would think that SOE and Turbine would change the business model and copy WoW or GW/Lineage2. Yet they don't... why? Too risky. What if you spend 5 years developing a game and then it sells like crap? Not many executive have the courage or the confidence to accept such terms. Blizzard has proven their ability to deliver polished content that is very user friendly. NC has the backbone since they are a much larger company.
Turbine, SOE, and Mythic are all companies that made their name by releasing MMOs, all of their initial releases were very successful, yet all of them were half baked products. I think that with competitors like WoW and NC soft the home-grown MMO will no longer be able to succeed like a few years ago ( Irth comes to mind, we'll see how The Chronicle fares). The experience is no longer new, nor refreshing. People have been playing these games for a long while and expect the next generation to be a step forward in terms of quality and content.
So far only WoW succeeded in providing both (it struck a good balance between a mindless time sink and a game, and spent an abnormal long period in beta). DDO lacks both quality and content. For me the game is fun enough to warrant the purchase ( definitly better deal for the money than a FPS or RTS), yet it is quite clear that is fails to meet the raised expectations. I'm an old fashioned gamer and I'm willing to put up with bugs, poor interface design, server issues, etc. as long as the "meat" of the gameplay is fun, challenging, and has a strong atmosphere.
DDO has won my appreciation based on gameplay alone.
Well... there it is, more "apologetic" rhetoric... nothing wrong with that, the game has flaws and I believe they can be overlooked. Better than perfidious trolling, spiteful negativism or inflamatory and derogatory activism.
I understand that you must be greatly disappointed since DDO was not "perfect" yet that does not mean the game is trash or can't be fun for anyone. You can choose to accept that this game can be enjoyable or you can promote the fact that it is complete crap. It's up to you to decide which is the wiser choice.
.................. All of this makes me reconsider the point of any such desscusion as this... My goal in comming to a game forum is to share my experience of the game. So is your goal I presume (FullMetalAlch's goal it to troll, but that's beside the point).
You claim that the flaws are game breaking and therefore the game is unplayable. I must disagree since I enjoy the game as a whole, yet to show that it is enjoyable I must prove that the features are not game breaking, i.e. take a defensive stance (apologetic if you will). Now if I do not argue against you my purpose will be spoiled since you impression of the game will becoem the prevalent one. Yet if you do not argue against my post it will be proved otherwise, which goes againts your purpose. A quote comes to mind "I reject your reality and substitute my own (or soemthing like that)." Thus we will continue this discussion until one of us loses interest in the game and will no longer wish to share the experience of it.
To continue my rambling on... why is it we want to share the experience of the game? It's obviously a common phenomenon since forums are full of people... yet why do we want to do it? Is it some sort of convoluted social acceptance need? Or is it that we enjoy sharing our experiences with other for the sake of sharing... or maybe we just want to affirm our opinions?
... ANyways, you'll probably read my post and nit-pick through it to find something you can use to belittle my opinions. Have fun with that.
Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon You derailed my thread. Not that it matters now though. Anyways, you speak of providing valid proof, yet you yourself provide none. All I've seen from you are claims of fact without any evidence to prove it. I am playing the beta "right now" and I don't see anything wrong with it yet. This game is in beta and plays just as well as the other many other mmo's I have played along with WoW, which I just quit since I liked DDO better. It is also worth saying that it is nearly impossible to provide "true" proof to anything any of us says. You would have to take screen shots of bugs to prove it, but then I could go and take screen shots to disprove it since most bugs are situational and happen only seldomly. (going off of bugs in general in most games) The burden of proof relies on your shoulders. It is much easier to prove that something is wrong than it is to prove something is right with a product. Being that you are 32, and assuming you went to college, you would know this already.
Not to take either side... But why is it on his shoulders to prove anything. If anything, it should be equally on both your shoulders. Without any proof on your side, why should I believe your position? After all it is only an opinion with out proof. And what does it matter which side is easier to prove? You were the one who started this thread, therefore the burden should be one you...
Read the original post and tell me what it has in common with what has been written recently. You obviously have never been to college or you wouldn't be asking that question. When someone starts an argument like Full metal did and makes accusations, but then requires the other party to prove him wrong, it is called a proof serogate.
When someone is deciding on if whether he is telling the truth or not, they are comparing what he said to their background experiences. If they never experienced what he is saying and they have never seen it in DDO then it becomes untrue in that situation. Full Metal admitted in the post above yours that all this is based on views that the player developed from playing the game. That is nothing more then opinion which everyone is entitled to. Regardless of popular belief every opinion is not equal. Having an opinion that DDO sucks or that it rocks is an equal opinion.
Originally posted by burrek hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
No.. he's right. You're more apologetic for this game than anyone I've seen. Opinion is one thing, but excuses are unfounded. "Most MMO's are released 80% done". NO excuse. WoW showed with 5 million subscribers HOW MUCH we demand a working game when we pay for it.
NC Soft knows better as well. That's why Bliz and NC are the #1 and #2 game companies out there. $OE isn't learning this and they're spiraling the bowl. Turbine's in the same bowl if they keep this crap up.
Shayde I have access to Beta until the 19th. So I have been playing the most recent version of the game. I don't see where you are getting an incomplete game from. I will admit that I haven't left the harbor. This is because I know there are only one set of quests to do and I don't want to get burnt out on them too soon. However, I have no problem with them having one set of quests as long as they are adding new ones often like they said they are. There is nothing wrong with that plan and it doesn't make their current game incomplete. I have see nothing incomplete about this game. This game appeals to roleplayers and casual gamers who do not care about PvP and competition. I find this game perfect to fulfill what I want which is a game I can log in a couple times a week do some quests and some roleplay and then schedule a meeting session for next week, just like pnp D&D. You people need to realize that Turbine developed this game with that playstyle in mind, with the intention of drawing more of the pnp crowd, not the MMO powergamer crowd.
The way I see it is that the opinion on this game will be split. The casual roleplaying gamer will find this to be a nice alternative to the pnp and will play it, while the powergamers and the competition whores will play it, insult it, and then leave for another game. If you go on the DDO boards you won't see the sort of drama that goes on in your SOE or WOW forums. People are happy and get along. I speak for the rest of the community when I say this, we don't care what you think about our game...go...leave...don't turn back...we won't miss you, good luck finding a game for you.
As for FullMetal. I have not been paying attention to this thread, because I have been knee deep in the DDO forums and my guilds forums learning more and developing my character, so I haven't been following your argument closely. If you want to debate this more, then restate what your claim is. Thank you.
My goal is akin to that cretin Bam Migera, to do whatever the f*ck I want.
Let's proceed to your post Burrek. I really am not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, at best you avoid the issues like a politician, and at worst ramble on like the comic book aficionado on the Simpsons. What misfire in your brain does not allow you to answer simple questions according to your experience in the game without having to explain encyclopedia britanica volumes of excuses and why those excuses are valid.
Just admit that this game is subpar to what is expected in this day and age; regardless of the size of the company for the product they present to the consumer, without giving your opinion that you like to play it and it doesn't matter how flawed it is.
You state yourself that some companies aren't willing or don't have the luxury to take the time to ensure, we the customer are happy with the product they provide us. These companies should be shunned, as an any pay for play game does have to show value and a reason for continued support. If we don't call them out and forgive their lame attempts then all we will see is more companies trying to charge online fees for what essentially is a single player console game. Maybe soon you will be required to sign up to an xbox live type service to pay for the privellage of playing any game, if this unwaivered support for the abuse of our sensabilities continues from more and more people.
Yawn... You are like a broken quest npc, you keep repeating yourself over and over no matter how many times the highlighted words are put in your face. I honestly don't have the strength to continue this battle of nitwits, a cup of coffee may change that though.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by ShaydeOriginally posted by burrekhmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interestingSo I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud. (oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)No.. he's right. You're more apologetic for this game than anyone I've seen. Opinion is one thing, but excuses are unfounded. "Most MMO's are released 80% done". NO excuse. WoW showed with 5 million subscribers HOW MUCH we demand a working game when we pay for it. NC Soft knows better as well. That's why Bliz and NC are the #1 and #2 game companies out there. $OE isn't learning this and they're spiraling the bowl. Turbine's in the same bowl if they keep this crap up. Shayde I have access to Beta until the 19th. So I have been playing the most recent version of the game. I don't see where you are getting an incomplete game from. I will admit that I haven't left the harbor. This is because I know there are only one set of quests to do and I don't want to get burnt out on them too soon. However, I have no problem with them having one set of quests as long as they are adding new ones often like they said they are. There is nothing wrong with that plan and it doesn't make their current game incomplete. I have see nothing incomplete about this game. This game appeals to roleplayers and casual gamers who do not care about PvP and competition. I find this game perfect to fulfill what I want which is a game I can log in a couple times a week do some quests and some roleplay and then schedule a meeting session for next week, just like pnp D&D. You people need to realize that Turbine developed this game with that playstyle in mind, with the intention of drawing more of the pnp crowd, not the MMO powergamer crowd. The way I see it is that the opinion on this game will be split. The casual roleplaying gamer will find this to be a nice alternative to the pnp and will play it, while the powergamers and the competition whores will play it, insult it, and then leave for another game. If you go on the DDO boards you won't see the sort of drama that goes on in your SOE or WOW forums. People are happy and get along. I speak for the rest of the community when I say this, we don't care what you think about our game...go...leave...don't turn back...we won't miss you, good luck finding a game for you.
As for FullMetal. I have not been paying attention to this thread, because I have been knee deep in the DDO forums and my guilds forums learning more and developing my character, so I haven't been following your argument closely. If you want to debate this more, then restate what your claim is. Thank you.
*Sigh* you just won't let me go get that cup of coffee will you.
First, how ostentatiously arrogant of you to speak for the whole of the DDO community.
Secondly, every merit you described sounds like a P&P D&D game which you can do with real people at any time without a reoccuring monthly fee and a highly more satisfying level of game enjoyment. The P&P websites usually have lists of game masters and players in your area and most hobby stores that cater to roleplaying games often have games you can join on Fri-Sun.
As this game is charging people $15 a month and claims to be an mmorpg, it will be judged as such, and it has been found wanting.
Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon You derailed my thread. Not that it matters now though. Anyways, you speak of providing valid proof, yet you yourself provide none. All I've seen from you are claims of fact without any evidence to prove it. I am playing the beta "right now" and I don't see anything wrong with it yet. This game is in beta and plays just as well as the other many other mmo's I have played along with WoW, which I just quit since I liked DDO better. It is also worth saying that it is nearly impossible to provide "true" proof to anything any of us says. You would have to take screen shots of bugs to prove it, but then I could go and take screen shots to disprove it since most bugs are situational and happen only seldomly. (going off of bugs in general in most games) The burden of proof relies on your shoulders. It is much easier to prove that something is wrong than it is to prove something is right with a product. Being that you are 32, and assuming you went to college, you would know this already.
Not to take either side... But why is it on his shoulders to prove anything. If anything, it should be equally on both your shoulders. Without any proof on your side, why should I believe your position? After all it is only an opinion with out proof. And what does it matter which side is easier to prove? You were the one who started this thread, therefore the burden should be one you...
Read the original post and tell me what it has in common with what has been written recently. You obviously have never been to college or you wouldn't be asking that question. When someone starts an argument like Full metal did and makes accusations, but then requires the other party to prove him wrong, it is called a proof serogate.
When someone is deciding on if whether he is telling the truth or not, they are comparing what he said to their background experiences. If they never experienced what he is saying and they have never seen it in DDO then it becomes untrue in that situation. Full Metal admitted in the post above yours that all this is based on views that the player developed from playing the game. That is nothing more then opinion which everyone is entitled to. Regardless of popular belief every opinion is not equal. Having an opinion that DDO sucks or that it rocks is an equal opinion.
OK, so I never went to college... So sue me. Because I never went to college does not mean I am stupid. In my line of work, I have heard the term "Educated Idiot" many times. Not that I am calling you that. But a college education is not always what it is cracked up to be.
It does not matter what you want to call it or what name you want to put on it...
IMO You still need to put forth something to back your opinion.
And since I am not callege educated, humor me. And tell me why every opinion is not equal.
Just to clarify, this is the slippery slope fallacy:
Originally posted by FullMetalAlc
True, but one has to wonder what would happen to DDO when it fails to meet the numbers that a game requiring $15 a month needs to keep it's operation running, given their modus operandi. If more and more game companie see people eager to pay $15 for garbage, then we will see more garbage put into the market place and maybe even higher premiums on quality software. Everyone is trying to cash in on the mmorpg craze.
This is called comparative....Something or other, can't seem to recall.
How quickly everyone forgets how Turbin handled Asheron's Call 2 and shut down the servers weeks after the last expansion went on sale.
Not really relevant to the topic, just thought I'd let you know
Originally posted by Jodokai Just to clarify, this is the slippery slope fallacy: Originally posted by FullMetalAlc True, but one has to wonder what would happen to DDO when it fails to meet the numbers that a game requiring $15 a month needs to keep it's operation running, given their modus operandi. If more and more game companie see people eager to pay $15 for garbage, then we will see more garbage put into the market place and maybe even higher premiums on quality software. Everyone is trying to cash in on the mmorpg craze.This is called comparative....Something or other, can't seem to recall. How quickly everyone forgets how Turbin handled Asheron's Call 2 and shut down the servers weeks after the last expansion went on sale.Not really relevant to the topic, just thought I'd let you know
How is it not relevant to the topic? Turbine is the company that created both Asheron's Call 2 and DDO. In fact, I believe they were in full control of Asheron's Call 2 when they did close it down, so you can not blame it on interference from a publisher or outsides sources. This was their buisness decision, they made a shoddy product much like DDO is a shoddy product, and then decided to shutdown the game. I believe it has everything to do with the topic as this is an online game and the developers practices are indicative of what they are capable as this is an ever changing online product. They could redesign it all tommorow and upset all the fanbois defending it today. The point of this all is that they never had and probably will have any respect for their paying customers or their own products in their efforts to obtain the almighty dollar.
Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon You derailed my thread. Not that it matters now though. Anyways, you speak of providing valid proof, yet you yourself provide none. All I've seen from you are claims of fact without any evidence to prove it. I am playing the beta "right now" and I don't see anything wrong with it yet. This game is in beta and plays just as well as the other many other mmo's I have played along with WoW, which I just quit since I liked DDO better. It is also worth saying that it is nearly impossible to provide "true" proof to anything any of us says. You would have to take screen shots of bugs to prove it, but then I could go and take screen shots to disprove it since most bugs are situational and happen only seldomly. (going off of bugs in general in most games) The burden of proof relies on your shoulders. It is much easier to prove that something is wrong than it is to prove something is right with a product. Being that you are 32, and assuming you went to college, you would know this already.
Not to take either side... But why is it on his shoulders to prove anything. If anything, it should be equally on both your shoulders. Without any proof on your side, why should I believe your position? After all it is only an opinion with out proof. And what does it matter which side is easier to prove? You were the one who started this thread, therefore the burden should be one you...
Read the original post and tell me what it has in common with what has been written recently. You obviously have never been to college or you wouldn't be asking that question. When someone starts an argument like Full metal did and makes accusations, but then requires the other party to prove him wrong, it is called a proof serogate.
When someone is deciding on if whether he is telling the truth or not, they are comparing what he said to their background experiences. If they never experienced what he is saying and they have never seen it in DDO then it becomes untrue in that situation. Full Metal admitted in the post above yours that all this is based on views that the player developed from playing the game. That is nothing more then opinion which everyone is entitled to. Regardless of popular belief every opinion is not equal. Having an opinion that DDO sucks or that it rocks is an equal opinion.
OK, so I never went to college... So sue me. Because I never went to college does not mean I am stupid. In my line of work, I have heard the term "Educated Idiot" many times. Not that I am calling you that. But a college education is not always what it is cracked up to be.
It does not matter what you want to call it or what name you want to put on it...
IMO You still need to put forth something to back your opinion.
And since I am not callege educated, humor me. And tell me why every opinion is not equal.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to insult you. College education is nice if you want to read and write better and communicate more effectively. It takes a lot of practice and I'm sure you've noticed that I need a lot of practice myself. College gives you a wealth of knowledge fairly quickly, but it doesn't give you wisdom which is what most people gain over the years in their life, college or no college.
The best way to explain to you why opinions are not equal is through an example. Bear with me here please. Most opinions like, "That's a good President" or "That's a bad President" are equal opinions and that is what most opinions are like. However, you have some opinions like, "Since most people that are involved in lawn mowing accidents are wearing shoes I will mow the lawn without shoes for now on." vrs. "No...You shouldn't do that because then you will expose your feet and are more ecceptable to getting injured." While the first guy was entitled to his opinion just as the second guy, the second guys opinion made more sense. "It's okay for me to kill your family and you have to like it." is not as equal as an opinion as "Your family is pretty nice, you should come over for dinner some time."
I showed you extremes, because they are easier to understand and get my point accross. All opinions won't be obviously unequal like these. I am not saying the guys on this thread are spewing unequal opinions either.
I just want people to judge DDO for DDO and not against every game in the MMO market. That is hard for even me to do since I have played most of your major titles already. I would assume that most of the MMO market have only played one MMO or none at all and are coming to DDO, because the Developers promised them an alternative to PnP play.
FullMetal has a point that D&D has jumped into the MMO industry and will be judged as an MMO, but if people will read the Dev journals, feedback, and comments they would know exactly what to expect in the game and they would know that the game was made with the pnp D&D players in mind. That only caters to a smallish community, but so does EVE and it is still a good game.
DDO is not an alternative to other MMO's, it is an alternative to PnP play.
Comments
(EDIT: Forgot to address your first point...Just because it's sold pre-orders, means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, a bad release means a lot of the early adopters will leave from dislike/disinterest and dropping server pops does nothing to welcome later adopters who just won't bother. I hope it does well, but releasing a poorly produced game does nothing to enhance success rates. A poll was recently done on the Euro Beta forums and only 25% of the Euro beta players think that DDO is READY for release!!)
Sorry Burrek, but I'm in the Euro Beta, and they just patched the servers with the latest patch...
There's more bugs now than there were before. Of course, EU servers get old versions of US patches, so I'm sure it's all fixed by now. (And there's a hotfix coming in on the Euro servers tonight, so a lot of them will be fixed for us too)
Still, all in all, the game is of a fairly poor standard and has a lack of things to do. Well, only one thing to do really. Plus, it's not only WoW that has UI customization features, EQ2 has them as well. And GW's interface is second to none (doesn't need any customization to make it good).
Basically DDO has about the same standard of content and gameplay as GW (except with worse interface, and not as pretty or on as stable servers), but unlike GW it doesn't have PvP to fall back on once you finish the missions. Plus DDO is going to limit your play to a much smaller group of players, so if you end up with a level 5 character on a server where you don't find good people to group with you're relegated to starting all over again on a new server.
(A couple of things I really like about DDO though: variation in types of armor (even amongst the same labelled/style), and D&D character creation rules. Though D&D rules overall have been rather badly corrupted...definitely didn't hold to "if it ain't broke don't fix it" like they said they would.)
All I see here are the rantings of a DDO fanboi. Excuses & speculation instead of facts. We all shouldn't get so excited about this, however, for many of us D&D is a classic namesake and example of all that you would expect and love from a roleplaying game be it Final Fantasy or Dungeon Seige. To see it disgraced and tarnished in such a way, definately strikes a nerve. I suppose if you were starving, you would eat trash and since there are no new mmorpgs coming out at this time to choose, I can sympathize with overlooking flaws to play a game; but trash is free for the taking and this is not. If I were in a resturaunt paying for a meal that looked/tasted/smelled like trash, I would complain, who would not?
If this game was without a monthly fee I'm very sure it would go over much better and many flaws would be overlooked. as it stands the product doesn't even warrant a purchase as a stand alone game, if they made a decent game with multiplayer capabilities but a more fleshed out solo experience with npc parties it would go over much better, but you see that game would not be DDO, it would be entirely something else.
So far anyone supporting this is claiming the emporer has clothes, when he clearly does not. Using any excuse they can to make themselves feel better about this game, why? People have claimed they are more intelligent, more noble, more mature to appreciate this game. Even if this was not named after D&D, it would still fail to deliver up to expectations.
There are arguments that, this is good for casuals, if your that casual to appreciate DDO? How many months will you pay $15 a pop for? Since it took 2 days about 2-3 hours each to get to level 3 with a set of the expensive full plate, how long do you think it will take to get to level 10. If you don't play that much to get there so fast? Do you think you are getting your moneys worth for the amount of entertainment time?
The list of negatives go on and on, they far outweigh anything positive about this game. Who cares about World of Warcraft, it has nothing to do with this game, in and of itself DDO is subpar period.
hmmmm... calling me a fanboi.... hmmmm..... calls the facts I stated speculations.... interesting
So I look up who wrote this and it's.... FullMetalAlchemist, our professional troll. Nice try bud.
(oh and don't say that I'm just calling you a troll because I'm a fanboi since you yourself said that you come here to troll, go play with arrisb and the other fellows that get so riled up over your comments)
I call you a fanboi, becase you will not concede that there are flaws in DDO in reference to your previous posts. You have yet to propose any rebuttal with hard facts as the game is now and not what it will be when fixed or patched or expanded upon in the future. From all your posts I get the impression DDO/Turbine can do no wrong. Respond to my points about the game in comparison to it's peers that it closely resembles and provide your argument on why DDO is superior.
If you want to say that I am a Troll and don't deserve that respect, well I will have to say that is a major cop out, and you by default prove that you are fanboi and don't have any valid proof that DDO is a superior product today(not 2 years from now)then anything similar on the market. Your posts are all based on your personal views that are biased.
If you think my trolling speaks volumes about me, I would have to say the same for your avatar.
I call you a fanboi, becase you will not concede that there are flaws in DDO in reference to your previous posts. You have yet to propose any rebuttal with hard facts as the game is now and not what it will be when fixed or patched or expanded upon in the future. From all your posts I get the impression DDO/Turbine can do no wrong. Respond to my points about the game in comparison to it's peers that it closely resembles and provide your argument on why DDO is superior.
If you want to say that I am a Troll and don't deserve that respect, well I will have to say that is a major cop out, and you by default prove that you are fanboi and don't have any valid proof that DDO is a superior product today(not 2 years from now)then anything similar on the market. Your posts are all based on your personal views that are biased.
If you think my trolling speaks volumes about me, I would have to say the same for your avatar.
You derailed my thread. Not that it matters now though. Anyways, you speak of providing valid proof, yet you yourself provide none. All I've seen from you are claims of fact without any evidence to prove it. I am playing the beta "right now" and I don't see anything wrong with it yet. This game is in beta and plays just as well as the other many other mmo's I have played along with WoW, which I just quit since I liked DDO better.
It is also worth saying that it is nearly impossible to provide "true" proof to anything any of us says. You would have to take screen shots of bugs to prove it, but then I could go and take screen shots to disprove it since most bugs are situational and happen only seldomly. (going off of bugs in general in most games)
The burden of proof relies on your shoulders. It is much easier to prove that something is wrong than it is to prove something is right with a product. Being that you are 32, and assuming you went to college, you would know this already.
Do you always use your real information on msg boards?
Anyway, Hopefully everyone posting comments has played the beta of DDO at some point in the last month. Everyon has an experience and that experience no matter how diluted becomes the truth for the moment. I am not asking for screen captures of bugs and what not, we are discussing the merits of the game as a whole. Can you, or can you not provide an unadulterated view based on the truth of your experience and still concede the flaws brought up are not present in comparison to the closest peers of this game in it's marketplace? I don't want to hear that "they are not flaws but a different design that you just don't appreciate", that is weak and is what has been regurgitated over and over. This view is especially prevelant when you quote unquote fanbois are backed into a corner. Please compare this game to Guild Wars or Diablo, and explain to us all why you believe DDO is a better game comparing the similarities and inovations of each.
I call you a fanboi, becase you will not concede that there are flaws in DDO in reference to your previous posts. You have yet to propose any rebuttal with hard facts as the game is now and not what it will be when fixed or patched or expanded upon in the future. From all your posts I get the impression DDO/Turbine can do no wrong. Respond to my points about the game in comparison to it's peers that it closely resembles and provide your argument on why DDO is superior.
If you want to say that I am a Troll and don't deserve that respect, well I will have to say that is a major cop out, and you by default prove that you are fanboi and don't have any valid proof that DDO is a superior product today(not 2 years from now)then anything similar on the market. Your posts are all based on your personal views that are biased.
If you think my trolling speaks volumes about me, I would have to say the same for your avatar.
You did it anyway, almost made me chuckle out loud
(even though that was amusing I still think you need to be beaten with a stick, death to the tolls!)
edit... to add something to the thread:
Nobody has claimed that DDO does not have flaws, to claim such a thing would be as bad as to be troll.
Nobody is ignoring the various bugs and interface design issues, they are there. The question is: do the pros outweight the cons? A signle fault does not destroy a game... matter of fact I do not know of a game without flaws. As long as a game remains fun it can have a billion bugs, poor interface, stone age graphics, no sound and show you commercials every 5 minutes. If a game is not fun then it does not matter what features it has.
Now, if there is a specific feature that you think makes the game un-fun then maybe you should consider wether the game is fun at all. If a single item can outweigh the pros then apparently the pros are not strong enaugh.
To summerize: there are flaws, wether you look past them or not depends on the fun factor.
No.. he's right. You're more apologetic for this game than anyone I've seen. Opinion is one thing, but excuses are unfounded. "Most MMO's are released 80% done". NO excuse. WoW showed with 5 million subscribers HOW MUCH we demand a working game when we pay for it.
NC Soft knows better as well. That's why Bliz and NC are the #1 and #2 game companies out there. $OE isn't learning this and they're spiraling the bowl. Turbine's in the same bowl if they keep this crap up.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
No.. he's right. You're more apologetic for this game than anyone I've seen. Opinion is one thing, but excuses are unfounded. "Most MMO's are released 80% done". NO excuse. WoW showed with 5 million subscribers HOW MUCH we demand a working game when we pay for it.
NC Soft knows better as well. That's why Bliz and NC are the #1 and #2 game companies out there. $OE isn't learning this and they're spiraling the bowl. Turbine's in the same bowl if they keep this crap up.
I have to agree with you on that one. A finished product is always nice.
One would think that SOE and Turbine would change the business model and copy WoW or GW/Lineage2. Yet they don't... why? Too risky. What if you spend 5 years developing a game and then it sells like crap? Not many executive have the courage or the confidence to accept such terms. Blizzard has proven their ability to deliver polished content that is very user friendly. NC has the backbone since they are a much larger company.
Turbine, SOE, and Mythic are all companies that made their name by releasing MMOs, all of their initial releases were very successful, yet all of them were half baked products. I think that with competitors like WoW and NC soft the home-grown MMO will no longer be able to succeed like a few years ago ( Irth comes to mind, we'll see how The Chronicle fares). The experience is no longer new, nor refreshing. People have been playing these games for a long while and expect the next generation to be a step forward in terms of quality and content.
So far only WoW succeeded in providing both (it struck a good balance between a mindless time sink and a game, and spent an abnormal long period in beta). DDO lacks both quality and content. For me the game is fun enough to warrant the purchase ( definitly better deal for the money than a FPS or RTS), yet it is quite clear that is fails to meet the raised expectations. I'm an old fashioned gamer and I'm willing to put up with bugs, poor interface design, server issues, etc. as long as the "meat" of the gameplay is fun, challenging, and has a strong atmosphere.
DDO has won my appreciation based on gameplay alone.
Well... there it is, more "apologetic" rhetoric... nothing wrong with that, the game has flaws and I believe they can be overlooked. Better than perfidious trolling, spiteful negativism or inflamatory and derogatory activism.
I understand that you must be greatly disappointed since DDO was not "perfect" yet that does not mean the game is trash or can't be fun for anyone. You can choose to accept that this game can be enjoyable or you can promote the fact that it is complete crap. It's up to you to decide which is the wiser choice.
....................................................
.................. All of this makes me reconsider the point of any such desscusion as this... My goal in comming to a game forum is to share my experience of the game. So is your goal I presume (FullMetalAlch's goal it to troll, but that's beside the point).
You claim that the flaws are game breaking and therefore the game is unplayable. I must disagree since I enjoy the game as a whole, yet to show that it is enjoyable I must prove that the features are not game breaking, i.e. take a defensive stance (apologetic if you will). Now if I do not argue against you my purpose will be spoiled since you impression of the game will becoem the prevalent one. Yet if you do not argue against my post it will be proved otherwise, which goes againts your purpose. A quote comes to mind "I reject your reality and substitute my own (or soemthing like that)." Thus we will continue this discussion until one of us loses interest in the game and will no longer wish to share the experience of it.
To continue my rambling on... why is it we want to share the experience of the game? It's obviously a common phenomenon since forums are full of people... yet why do we want to do it? Is it some sort of convoluted social acceptance need? Or is it that we enjoy sharing our experiences with other for the sake of sharing... or maybe we just want to affirm our opinions?
... ANyways, you'll probably read my post and nit-pick through it to find something you can use to belittle my opinions. Have fun with that.
Read the original post and tell me what it has in common with what has been written recently. You obviously have never been to college or you wouldn't be asking that question. When someone starts an argument like Full metal did and makes accusations, but then requires the other party to prove him wrong, it is called a proof serogate.
When someone is deciding on if whether he is telling the truth or not, they are comparing what he said to their background experiences. If they never experienced what he is saying and they have never seen it in DDO then it becomes untrue in that situation. Full Metal admitted in the post above yours that all this is based on views that the player developed from playing the game. That is nothing more then opinion which everyone is entitled to. Regardless of popular belief every opinion is not equal. Having an opinion that DDO sucks or that it rocks is an equal opinion.
No.. he's right. You're more apologetic for this game than anyone I've seen. Opinion is one thing, but excuses are unfounded. "Most MMO's are released 80% done". NO excuse. WoW showed with 5 million subscribers HOW MUCH we demand a working game when we pay for it.
NC Soft knows better as well. That's why Bliz and NC are the #1 and #2 game companies out there. $OE isn't learning this and they're spiraling the bowl. Turbine's in the same bowl if they keep this crap up.
Shayde I have access to Beta until the 19th. So I have been playing the most recent version of the game. I don't see where you are getting an incomplete game from. I will admit that I haven't left the harbor. This is because I know there are only one set of quests to do and I don't want to get burnt out on them too soon. However, I have no problem with them having one set of quests as long as they are adding new ones often like they said they are. There is nothing wrong with that plan and it doesn't make their current game incomplete. I have see nothing incomplete about this game. This game appeals to roleplayers and casual gamers who do not care about PvP and competition. I find this game perfect to fulfill what I want which is a game I can log in a couple times a week do some quests and some roleplay and then schedule a meeting session for next week, just like pnp D&D. You people need to realize that Turbine developed this game with that playstyle in mind, with the intention of drawing more of the pnp crowd, not the MMO powergamer crowd.
The way I see it is that the opinion on this game will be split. The casual roleplaying gamer will find this to be a nice alternative to the pnp and will play it, while the powergamers and the competition whores will play it, insult it, and then leave for another game. If you go on the DDO boards you won't see the sort of drama that goes on in your SOE or WOW forums. People are happy and get along. I speak for the rest of the community when I say this, we don't care what you think about our game...go...leave...don't turn back...we won't miss you, good luck finding a game for you.
As for FullMetal. I have not been paying attention to this thread, because I have been knee deep in the DDO forums and my guilds forums learning more and developing my character, so I haven't been following your argument closely. If you want to debate this more, then restate what your claim is. Thank you.
My goal is akin to that cretin Bam Migera, to do whatever the f*ck I want.
Let's proceed to your post Burrek. I really am not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, at best you avoid the issues like a politician, and at worst ramble on like the comic book aficionado on the Simpsons. What misfire in your brain does not allow you to answer simple questions according to your experience in the game without having to explain encyclopedia britanica volumes of excuses and why those excuses are valid.
Just admit that this game is subpar to what is expected in this day and age; regardless of the size of the company for the product they present to the consumer, without giving your opinion that you like to play it and it doesn't matter how flawed it is.
You state yourself that some companies aren't willing or don't have the luxury to take the time to ensure, we the customer are happy with the product they provide us. These companies should be shunned, as an any pay for play game does have to show value and a reason for continued support. If we don't call them out and forgive their lame attempts then all we will see is more companies trying to charge online fees for what essentially is a single player console game. Maybe soon you will be required to sign up to an xbox live type service to pay for the privellage of playing any game, if this unwaivered support for the abuse of our sensabilities continues from more and more people.
Yawn... You are like a broken quest npc, you keep repeating yourself over and over no matter how many times the highlighted words are put in your face. I honestly don't have the strength to continue this battle of nitwits, a cup of coffee may change that though.
Toodles.
*Sigh* you just won't let me go get that cup of coffee will you.
First, how ostentatiously arrogant of you to speak for the whole of the DDO community.
Secondly, every merit you described sounds like a P&P D&D game which you can do with real people at any time without a reoccuring monthly fee and a highly more satisfying level of game enjoyment. The P&P websites usually have lists of game masters and players in your area and most hobby stores that cater to roleplaying games often have games you can join on Fri-Sun.
As this game is charging people $15 a month and claims to be an mmorpg, it will be judged as such, and it has been found wanting.
Read the original post and tell me what it has in common with what has been written recently. You obviously have never been to college or you wouldn't be asking that question. When someone starts an argument like Full metal did and makes accusations, but then requires the other party to prove him wrong, it is called a proof serogate.
When someone is deciding on if whether he is telling the truth or not, they are comparing what he said to their background experiences. If they never experienced what he is saying and they have never seen it in DDO then it becomes untrue in that situation. Full Metal admitted in the post above yours that all this is based on views that the player developed from playing the game. That is nothing more then opinion which everyone is entitled to. Regardless of popular belief every opinion is not equal. Having an opinion that DDO sucks or that it rocks is an equal opinion.
OK, so I never went to college... So sue me. Because I never went to college does not mean I am stupid. In my line of work, I have heard the term "Educated Idiot" many times. Not that I am calling you that. But a college education is not always what it is cracked up to be.
It does not matter what you want to call it or what name you want to put on it...
IMO You still need to put forth something to back your opinion.
And since I am not callege educated, humor me. And tell me why every opinion is not equal.
How is it not relevant to the topic? Turbine is the company that created both Asheron's Call 2 and DDO. In fact, I believe they were in full control of Asheron's Call 2 when they did close it down, so you can not blame it on interference from a publisher or outsides sources. This was their buisness decision, they made a shoddy product much like DDO is a shoddy product, and then decided to shutdown the game. I believe it has everything to do with the topic as this is an online game and the developers practices are indicative of what they are capable as this is an ever changing online product. They could redesign it all tommorow and upset all the fanbois defending it today. The point of this all is that they never had and probably will have any respect for their paying customers or their own products in their efforts to obtain the almighty dollar.
Read the original post and tell me what it has in common with what has been written recently. You obviously have never been to college or you wouldn't be asking that question. When someone starts an argument like Full metal did and makes accusations, but then requires the other party to prove him wrong, it is called a proof serogate.
When someone is deciding on if whether he is telling the truth or not, they are comparing what he said to their background experiences. If they never experienced what he is saying and they have never seen it in DDO then it becomes untrue in that situation. Full Metal admitted in the post above yours that all this is based on views that the player developed from playing the game. That is nothing more then opinion which everyone is entitled to. Regardless of popular belief every opinion is not equal. Having an opinion that DDO sucks or that it rocks is an equal opinion.
OK, so I never went to college... So sue me. Because I never went to college does not mean I am stupid. In my line of work, I have heard the term "Educated Idiot" many times. Not that I am calling you that. But a college education is not always what it is cracked up to be.
It does not matter what you want to call it or what name you want to put on it...
IMO You still need to put forth something to back your opinion.
And since I am not callege educated, humor me. And tell me why every opinion is not equal.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to insult you. College education is nice if you want to read and write better and communicate more effectively. It takes a lot of practice and I'm sure you've noticed that I need a lot of practice myself. College gives you a wealth of knowledge fairly quickly, but it doesn't give you wisdom which is what most people gain over the years in their life, college or no college.
The best way to explain to you why opinions are not equal is through an example. Bear with me here please. Most opinions like, "That's a good President" or "That's a bad President" are equal opinions and that is what most opinions are like. However, you have some opinions like, "Since most people that are involved in lawn mowing accidents are wearing shoes I will mow the lawn without shoes for now on." vrs. "No...You shouldn't do that because then you will expose your feet and are more ecceptable to getting injured." While the first guy was entitled to his opinion just as the second guy, the second guys opinion made more sense. "It's okay for me to kill your family and you have to like it." is not as equal as an opinion as "Your family is pretty nice, you should come over for dinner some time."
I showed you extremes, because they are easier to understand and get my point accross. All opinions won't be obviously unequal like these. I am not saying the guys on this thread are spewing unequal opinions either.
I just want people to judge DDO for DDO and not against every game in the MMO market. That is hard for even me to do since I have played most of your major titles already. I would assume that most of the MMO market have only played one MMO or none at all and are coming to DDO, because the Developers promised them an alternative to PnP play.
FullMetal has a point that D&D has jumped into the MMO industry and will be judged as an MMO, but if people will read the Dev journals, feedback, and comments they would know exactly what to expect in the game and they would know that the game was made with the pnp D&D players in mind. That only caters to a smallish community, but so does EVE and it is still a good game.
DDO is not an alternative to other MMO's, it is an alternative to PnP play.
Sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading.