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Why I Dislike DDO
Farakon
Member Posts: 47
I have been trying out DDO for the past weeks or so and did not like it. At first I thought it was the instancing but I am an avid CoH/CoV player and their mission content is instanced.
So what is the difference?
Soloability and repetitiveness.
In CoH/V you can solo missions. I DDO, after a certain point, you simply can not. Moreover the longer I stayed in DDO I found that everyone had picked a few repeatable missions they determined were the best for one reason or another and I found my groups constantly wanting to do the same missions over and over again rather than doing new ones.
This transforms DDO into Diablo II. An endless grind of the same dungeons over and over again for loot.
Comments
I've got some beefs with this beautiful game that I really want to suceed:
A) Customized characters... aren't really. With totally standard armor and clothes and not even the ability to "colorize" them, it boils down to "the guy with red hair wearing the same armor I am is the fighter, not the palidan."
C) The rest system is entirely *too* restrictive for online experience. The "many armed monster of DDO" exists in every single instance of every single tavern. Immersion breaking, irritating and a club to force you to rest for even a single hit point to finish a module where you need to only defeat that last Kobold.
D) The combat was actually too twitchy, and I'm from City of Heroes/Villains! Kobolds that immediately swung (and would continue to swing) behind me? Sheesh.
E) Grouping was definitely not so easy nor enjoyable. I hated that everyone was saying "get a cleric, that will make this work fine."
Now some of the things I did like.
1) Very pretty. Generic, but pretty.
2) Voice for teams. Very cool! I liked this a lot.
3) It's definitely D&D, even if some of the feats are wonky.
4) Looks like it could be fun on a high end system, little too laggy on my computer though.
what archetype can you solo with in CoH? just curious.. I always read people bitching about CoH getting nerfs and when I played it I always grouped..
so...
"In CoH/V you can solo missions. I DDO, after a certain point, you simply can not. Moreover the longer I stayed in DDO I found that everyone had picked a few repeatable missions they determined were the best for one reason or another and I found my groups constantly wanting to do the same missions over and over again rather than doing new ones."
That alone will prevent me from subscribing to this game. It sounds like the WoW end-game.
I'll wait until the game offers free online play (which will probably be in about 3 months after release).
If they don't close the servers down like they did in Asheron's Call 2, that is.
so...
If they don't close the servers down like they did in Asheron's Call 2, that is.
...and if the Internet doesn't stop working shortly after DDO comes online.
Oh oh, I got one.. and if SOE doesn't buy out DDO and absorb it into EQ2.
I think I could go on with these ridiculous, and baseless, points, but I think you get my drift.
... And in other news, police say the thread was already dead when they arrived. They aren't saying that FullMetalAlc is a suspect yet.
so...
They all CAN. However, some are definitely easier than others and not every AT can take over bosses.
I would say that MasterMinds are the best soloers but they have downtime everytime they zone. Brutes are wonderful. Scrappers and Blasters are fine soloers. PB are extremely interesting and challenging for solo. Other ATs have far less solo appeal but they are possible.
However, after they bring in the nerfs, the fact you solo less well is certainly hard on the morale of many players (myself included). Why can't I do what I was able to do? See, folks can "argue" that AVs should not be soloable, but it was FUN and Challenging. Now the same AV can't be soloed (he regen more), take a group to take it down while offering no real challenge for a group, thereby it is a big cow waiting to be killed by a group, while it used to be challenging solo content (or duo/trio of less self-sufficients characters). Really, what is the point to make a monster impossible to solo yet, not challenging for a group? It is wasted ressources, it serve no purpose but been a boring cow with tons of hps waiting to be butchered.
Change the name, remove AV and put ultra boss or whatever, but removing solo content to give unchallenging group content is a mistake, regardless of the name under the MOB. Personnally, if players would solo stuff that was not meant to be soloed, I would not change that, I would change the label those monsters have. From AVs they would have become something else, prolly a nasty term like "abominations" to mean they are really, really mean compare to stuff, but are not really AVs. Removing from a group of players to give to another group is not wise, the first group plainly lose stuff. The second group rather have stuff for them rather than see what used to belong to other type of players.
The same more or less happen in EQ when they see AE groups, but for once, SoE was able to see the worth in it. They never remove it. They didn't put more AE stuff on purpose, but they never remove it (well they nerf some places, but that would be another subject worthy of a topic in itself). Destroying an accidental "game feature" is not a way to developp your game, some of your players have adopted it and the others will never really apprecited the tainted feeling of taking from them.
Cryptic and Stateman have hunted, hurted, harmed, the solo playability of CoH, on purpose. I may read a few trolls who are happy about it, but I never see someone who benefit from those changes in game. Instead of having a few players doing it, you now have a desert area with occasionnal groups trying to storm those aspect as fast as possible since they are not challenging nor fun. Instead of having soloers trying to outdo each other in those aspects and occasionnally helping a grouper who is groupless and want an area completed, you have nobody playing that part or just storming it. Telling a fellow scrapper: "Eh, I solo Battle Maiden!!!", you pretty much are sure the guy consider trying to solo it, see if he can. Do you ever read a group telling another group: "Eh we kill Battle Maiden, woot!", no, she is easy for a group, hardly worth a notice. Removing never add.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
maybe a little too indepth seing as its a DDO forum, but still I agree, seeing as I play Cov.. MMs FTW solo
/ontopic
I like instancing (now and again) but I also like the PvP opportunity too. There are some really nice features to this game, but what really annoys me is the swathe of dialogue (both audible and reading terms) that u have to wade through. OK so I'm not a true D&Der, but the pace is really slowwwww. This is not going to draw a lot ppl from other RPG styled games - its geared for the true hardcore D&Der - hack n slashers need not apply. I even found AO more active and faster than this, and AO takes a while to learn (lots of reading up). Ian Livingstone's City Of Thieves / Forest Of Doom was more action packed than this
OK, so this is my opinion, and I must admit it is coming from a non D&D fanatic, but there must be some sort of element to pull in outsiders
Another big problem with DDO is that, while the game is *supposedly* aimed at RPGers, the GAMEPLAY is PURE hack n slash. It's probably THE LEAST strategic/tactical gameplay out of any MMORPG I've ever played. Everyone just runs up and swings at the mobs...and that's it. You can't really block a mob, as a tank, the taunts and detaunts rarely work, so it just becomes "kill 'em as quick as possible". A couple of times you might have to stay back and ping 'em with ranged to not get bombarded, but it's rare. (I am judging this from the first 3 to 5 levels though, so it may get better later) Again, the big problem...translating PnP rules to MMO...DOES NOT WORK. (They've had to change the tempo of the game without changing the rules, and it's been a dicey at best translation)
If they don't close the servers down like they did in Asheron's Call 2, that is.
...and if the Internet doesn't stop working shortly after DDO comes online.
Oh oh, I got one.. and if SOE doesn't buy out DDO and absorb it into EQ2.
I think I could go on with these ridiculous, and baseless, points, but I think you get my drift.
... And in other news, police say the thread was already dead when they arrived. They aren't saying that FullMetalAlc is a suspect yet.
I'm glad I can push your buttons so easily, it makes every reaction post you type more enjoyable to read. You act as though I stole your milk, when what you quoted is 100% the truth of what Turbine did to paying customers who bought the new expansion to Asheron's Call 2, the servers were taken down shortly thereafter. You would think they would let people know the game was going down a few weeks before the latest expansion went on sale, maybe even let them play the expansion for free with their apologies that they can no longer support the product instead of milking unsuspecting customers. This is all old news and I'm sure the horse we are beating is not only dead but burried that nobody remembers how shitty a company Turbine really is.
I wonder what other uncontrable outbursts of fanboism I should expect from someone with a General Grevious avatar.. LOL.
Another big problem with DDO is that, while the game is *supposedly* aimed at RPGers, the GAMEPLAY is PURE hack n slash. It's probably THE LEAST strategic/tactical gameplay out of any MMORPG I've ever played. Everyone just runs up and swings at the mobs...and that's it. You can't really block a mob, as a tank, the taunts and detaunts rarely work, so it just becomes "kill 'em as quick as possible". A couple of times you might have to stay back and ping 'em with ranged to not get bombarded, but it's rare. (I am judging this from the first 3 to 5 levels though, so it may get better later) Again, the big problem...translating PnP rules to MMO...DOES NOT WORK. (They've had to change the tempo of the game without changing the rules, and it's been a dicey at best translation)
Yes, the combat system is nothing like other MMOs. The basic system is very much like the Fable combat, yet that is hardly classical RPG. The game is not likely to appeal to people who only like turn-based rpgs and despise action/platformer games. There have been quite a few succesful RPGs that did have both action and RP ( Morrowind, Deus Ex, Fable [3 games I enjoyed immensly!]) yet no MMO has tried that.
As you said, PnP rules are not good for real-time combat and so Turbine had to make it more interesting. I agree that at first the combat seems purley hack 'n' slash, I had the same impression. I really like games like BLade of Darkness and Rune, so the basic hack'n'slash is plenty enjoyable for me. But once you try more and more challenging missions and learn more of group dynamics the combat becomes a whole lot more tactical.
The tactics are much more akin to real combat (not that I know how that's like) than the non-dynamic encounters of other MMOs (by non-dynamic I mean that the combat is purley based on stats and there are few external factors that affect the encounters). A giant is throwing rocks at your party? Have a fighter with a tower shield stand in front of the squishy ones. THe next room is full of mosnters? Have someoen stand in the doorway and block the enemies while the mage AoEs them to death. Have no healer? whoever is getting attacked switch to block mode and have the rest of the party stab the mob from the back. A large group of undead is heading your way and you have no priest? Use control undead and have them fight each other. etc.
It is true that there are no pre-set tactics for combat, but I think the improvisational combat style represents DnD much better than a 1,2,2,2,5,4,2,2,2,2,9 combat of other MMos (the numbers are what I press when fighting a mob in WoW:P ). What it does is keep things fresh as opposed to learning routines. Unfortunatly many people do not have the combat savvy or patients to try a more advanced approach than run in and click-click-click... on the bright side most people like that get weeded out since they never find the fun in the game.
I dunno for Deus and Fable since I never try them. But Morrowind is not in that category. I enjoy Morrowind and I doesn't play "action/platformer" games. Morrowind gameplay is fast, but it is not a twitch action game as DDO is.
Morrowind can appeal to peoples who doesn't value coordination or reflex in their game for any reason. DDO can't appeal to those peoples. If you doesn't possess good reflexs and coordination, you can enjoy Morrowind and play it a lot. If you doesn't possess those good reflexs and coordination, you have to be extremely humble and not minding to much "relative" failing to even bear DDO.
Do not compare Morrowind to DDO. In Morrowind you can solo, you doesn't need reflexs and coordination skills, your actions impact the world outside, you can master every skill if you work on them. Morrowind is a nice game that I respect.
D&D is the product I enjoy the most, the franchise I focus the most on, the system I prefer. DDO is a game I would not play nor qualify, it is not D&D.
D&D is the father of turn based. Many offspring went in real time, to my displeasure, however, they never betray that origin without saying so (DragonShard is REAL TIME STRATEGY, clear and honest). Other systems have come out with progressive initiative systems, D&D always stick to the traditional game-based turn. DDO only have a skin of D&D, a flavor. Deep beneath, there is very little of D&D in DDO.
So tell me, why would a company brought a game that doesn't respect the franchise to reach the fanbase? Then they label it a MMO and they again doesn't do anything similar to other MMOs? Unless we are talking about a company who is not even able to bring up a nice follow up to it own franchises (AC2), so how exactly can we expect them to follow up on the strongest, the most defined, the most important, RPG franchise to exist? I hope WotC and Atari start to blush, because I would if I was them.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I think you played a different Morrowind. The one I played was an FPS action game with melee twitch combat, twitch ranged combat, platforming puzzles and required fast reflexes and precision ( I have the PC version, maybe the Xbox has auto-lock, auto-jump, auto-move, and auto-level).
Morrowind was a single player game so... saying that you can solo in that game is... eh.... silly (one could say that you are forced to solo
). Then you go ahead and mention that one of the high points of Morrowind is that you can master every skill, which I presume is a jab at the fact that DnD does not let you use disable traps/locks if your not a rogue and limits your feat options based on class, but then you say "D&D is the product I enjoy the most"? ....
Mhhhhhhhk.... only reason I brought Morrowind up is that it does have action in it, a lot of action, and it was a great game that did very well (I can't wait till Oblivion gets here).
Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) is a fun,action-packed, massively-multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) that allows thousands of players to participate in a story-driven D&D campaign. DDO features swashbuckling adventures, betrayal and intrigue, and lots and lots of deep, dark, dangerous, trap-riddled dungeons.
The Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 rules are the basis of nearly all of our game mechanics. That being said, the D&D ruleset is designed for PnP gaming, not online play, and we will be making changes to the rules where necessary. Our design goal is to stay faithful to the rules and spirit of PnP D&D, while ensuring that D&D Online is a fast-paced, exciting game thats fun to play.
LOL, it's funny that you did not underline "MMORPG". And as far as I know there is only 1 Morrowwind, as the series is Called "The Elder Scrolls". Also fyi the XBOX version is not a gimped version of the game that is any easier.
You always seem to defend this game with excuses in every possible way, I am not going to call you a fanboi, your written actions speak louder then words in that regard. However, I will say that you seem to be very very protective of DDO, I believe you are trying to convince people this poor excuses of 0s and 1s is worthy of purchase, even though you know the majority hates the game and it will most likely fail. At this point you are being rediculous with your unwaivering support of such a shoddy product that you believe you can save from it's ultimate fate of failure.
I'm glad you and others like yourself enjoy the game, just don't infer that anyone else is not up to your set of silly standards or capable of enjoying this, they just tell the truth and have better taste.
FullMetalAlc has a problem of repeating his self inflected ignorance. The troll genuinely believes that everyone who likes the game is a hypocrite and everyone who doesn't like the game is truthful.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
"sigh*
You always try hard to sabotage any thread....yet both opinions are truthful and you should learn to resist the temptation of trying to humiliate yourself with your impolite comments! A respectful person "unlike yourself" respects others people's opinions without lashing out at those who have a different one! But then again, youve shunned yourself from a social life so you dont know.
Oh well .
Quote: You do better when you know better
LOL.. your posts are more amusing then anything I could come up to troll with. Instead of providing a well thought out rebuttal to the statements presented, you choose to attack my character which has nothing to do with my statements being factual or not. Why should anyone listen to you anyway, you couldn't even decipher or comprehend what others post as shown in another thread when you attacked another poster who was the pro DDO side of the issue and was in a very clever way trying to flame me and others like myself, you of course imediately started to attack him just because you thought he had anti-DDO comments, that was the funniest thing I've seen in this forum so far and it still makes me laugh every time I think about it. In this particular thread I have not been impolite to anyone, you are quite delusional if you think so. Also don't put words in my mouth saying I accuse anyone who likes the game of being a hypocrite, anyone can like whatever they want, just don't don't call people trolls or act elitists when you hear something you personally don't like. You can call me what you wish but it doesn't change the fact my views on the issue are not singular and others who outnumber those in favor have posted their views which more or less fall in line with my own about the quality of this particular game.
Lastly, stop using blah blah blah.. in your quotes, its quite annoying and is far more disrespectful then anything you claim I have done in this thread.
If you stop posting inane drivel, I will equally have no recourse to counter your diatribe with my own, it's that simple. However, as you wish to provide me with afternoon entertainment I will enjoy it and write you a reply worthy of going to dictionary.com to comprehend.
If they don't close the servers down like they did in Asheron's Call 2, that is.
...and if the Internet doesn't stop working shortly after DDO comes online.
Oh oh, I got one.. and if SOE doesn't buy out DDO and absorb it into EQ2.
I think I could go on with these ridiculous, and baseless, points, but I think you get my drift.
... And in other news, police say the thread was already dead when they arrived. They aren't saying that FullMetalAlc is a suspect yet.
I'm glad I can push your buttons so easily, it makes every reaction post you type more enjoyable to read. You act as though I stole your milk, when what you quoted is 100% the truth of what Turbine did to paying customers who bought the new expansion to Asheron's Call 2, the servers were taken down shortly thereafter. You would think they would let people know the game was going down a few weeks before the latest expansion went on sale, maybe even let them play the expansion for free with their apologies that they can no longer support the product instead of milking unsuspecting customers. This is all old news and I'm sure the horse we are beating is not only dead but burried that nobody remembers how shitty a company Turbine really is.
I wonder what other uncontrable outbursts of fanboism I should expect from someone with a General Grevious avatar.. LOL.
lol, bait much? Anyway, I really could care less about turbine's previous successes or failures. I've played DDO in beta and the 10-day pre-order and I quite enjoy it. If the game feels like it's dieing and the guild that I've joined falls apart, I don't grow too attached to games so I can just find something else.
so...
Good for you!
LOL.. your posts are more amusing then anything I could come up to troll with. Instead of providing a well thought out rebuttal to the statements presented, you choose to attack my character which has nothing to do with my statements being factual or not. Why should anyone listen to you anyway, you couldn't even decipher or comprehend what others post as shown in another thread when you attacked another poster who was the pro DDO side of the issue and was in a very clever way trying to flame me and others like myself, you of course imediately started to attack him just because you thought he had anti-DDO comments, that was the funniest thing I've seen in this forum so far and it still makes me laugh every time I think about it. In this particular thread I have not been impolite to anyone, you are quite delusional if you think so. Also don't put words in my mouth saying I accuse anyone who likes the game of being a hypocrite, anyone can like whatever they want, just don't don't call people trolls or act elitists when you hear something you personally don't like. You can call me what you wish but it doesn't change the fact my views on the issue are not singular and others who outnumber those in favor have posted their views which more or less fall in line with my own about the quality of this particular game.
Lastly, stop using blah blah blah.. in your quotes, its quite annoying and is far more disrespectful then anything you claim I have done in this thread.
If you stop posting inane drivel, I will equally have no recourse to counter your diatribe with my own, it's that simple. However, as you wish to provide me with afternoon entertainment I will enjoy it and write you a reply worthy of going to dictionary.com to comprehend.
LOL.. your posts are more amusing then anything I could come up to troll with. Instead of providing a well thought out rebuttal to the statements presented, you choose to attack my character which has nothing to do with my statements being factual or not. Why should anyone listen to you anyway, you couldn't even decipher or comprehend what others post as shown in another thread when you attacked another poster who was the pro DDO side of the issue and was in a very clever way trying to flame me and others like myself, you of course imediately started to attack him just because you thought he had anti-DDO comments, that was the funniest thing I've seen in this forum so far and it still makes me laugh every time I think about it. In this particular thread I have not been impolite to anyone, you are quite delusional if you think so. Also don't put words in my mouth saying I accuse anyone who likes the game of being a hypocrite, anyone can like whatever they want, just don't don't call people trolls or act elitists when you hear something you personally don't like. You can call me what you wish but it doesn't change the fact my views on the issue are not singular and others who outnumber those in favor have posted their views which more or less fall in line with my own about the quality of this particular game.
Lastly, stop using blah blah blah.. in your quotes, its quite annoying and is far more disrespectful then anything you claim I have done in this thread.
If you stop posting inane drivel, I will equally have no recourse to counter your diatribe with my own, it's that simple. However, as you wish to provide me with afternoon entertainment I will enjoy it and write you a reply worthy of going to dictionary.com to comprehend.
LOL.. your posts are more amusing then anything I could come up to troll with. Instead of providing a well thought out rebuttal to the statements presented, you choose to attack my character which has nothing to do with my statements being factual or not. Why should anyone listen to you anyway, you couldn't even decipher or comprehend what others post as shown in another thread when you attacked another poster who was the pro DDO side of the issue and was in a very clever way trying to flame me and others like myself, you of course imediately started to attack him just because you thought he had anti-DDO comments, that was the funniest thing I've seen in this forum so far and it still makes me laugh every time I think about it. In this particular thread I have not been impolite to anyone, you are quite delusional if you think so. Also don't put words in my mouth saying I accuse anyone who likes the game of being a hypocrite, anyone can like whatever they want, just don't don't call people trolls or act elitists when you hear something you personally don't like. You can call me what you wish but it doesn't change the fact my views on the issue are not singular and others who outnumber those in favor have posted their views which more or less fall in line with my own about the quality of this particular game.
Lastly, stop using blah blah blah.. in your quotes, its quite annoying and is far more disrespectful then anything you claim I have done in this thread.
If you stop posting inane drivel, I will equally have no recourse to counter your diatribe with my own, it's that simple. However, as you wish to provide me with afternoon entertainment I will enjoy it and write you a reply worthy of going to dictionary.com to comprehend.
Just how many times do we have to read this self centerd toss pots post's before a mod decides to get off his arse and make a stand for Truth - Justice - and shoot the tit head in the face way of life ?????