Man! I am a classic MMO player and I like tab-targeting. Playing as a Warrior, was a pain in the ass, especially in PVP. Spinning my sword left and right like a blind man, when 80% from the enemies were rangers, I felt like I was a tank meat. It was very frustrating at some point.
And that's why we have Charge (WoW Warrior style), Range Pull (WoW DK style), and Tether (in place turret CC) so they go nowhere once in range.
Like the Black Dessert Russian preview in site, pointing that PvP at early levels kind of suck, it suck in most MMO due to lack of skills, or real damage dealing ones. And most MMO suffer from the same stuff. That's at the end why I said this game was misunderstood.
Don't talk to me about my personal likes when it comes to combat in MMO's. I leveled up my Warrior up to 50 and did lots of BG's , but somehow , I could not get pass the combat think, even with the skills you said. Sure, it lasted few weeks since the game was new and all , even with that type of combat, but at the end, combat was the main reason of why I quit WS.
Because of the combat, I tried every class in the hope that I will find one which will play acceptable for me. Sadly, I found out that WS is also kind of lacking when it comes to classes.
And I hate Carbine for this. I say again, if I remember correctly, at first , they showed us a more friendly and classic combat / tab-targeting version of Wildstar. That was, until they ..saw the success of GW2 and they decided to go the same route. BAD decision because everything else I liked about WS. The settings, the humor , raids, missions, etc.
Again, I can't stand action-oriented combat in MMO's. That's why I don't play Tera, BnS ( tried it ) , GW2 , etc.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
For me....it was the quest grind along with the ridiculously difficult group content early in the game. The leveling grind was fun at first, but after awhile it was just quest hub after quest hub after quest hub. It was just the groundhog day effect over and over with your typical fetch/kill quests. The paths made it a little more interesting, but not much.
Wildstar's claim to fame was being "hardcore" yet they went with very cartoony graphics and gameplay. Personally I don't mind the graphics, but if your going to the hardcore crowd I would have picked a darker theme.
Plus, the "hardcore" crowd is much smaller than game forums would lead you to believe. Most gamers are casual. Wildstar was attempting to cater to a very select group of gamers, all the while using resources for extremely casual things like player housing. I seriously doubt hardcore raiders care about playing house in an MMO.
TLDR: Wildstar did not understand the crowd they were attempting to cater to. This is why they failed.
I played late beta then two 7 day free passes, so I don't have too much experience with the game. But there are a few reasons I didn't want to keep going back. I admit they aren't the strongest points to be made, but they are my first impressions given that I didn't get past level 16 on either of the two characters I played.
1. I hate to say it so it sounds like "too much content" but it felt like a game made for those with ADHD. You fill up on the overabundance of quests only to stumble on "Challenge Begins!" when you're trying to accomplish something else. Sure, you can go back and do it later, but I'm a bit of a completionist so it started to feel like quests/missions were being dumped on me before I could get much off my list. I suppose the correct answer is that there's more than enough content to come back a second time and not have to repeat everything. Unfortunately, it felt like I was too busy to actually see the world Carbine created. (I know most of you won't like this point, but be kind.)
What I did like was when challenges fit more with the missions you were doing (and not just kill x in 2 minutes). For example, I completed a mission to find an antidote (or something like that) and was met with a challenge to bring it back to a location in time. I was going to that location anyway, so it made the trip back more interesting.
2. The respawn timer felt like it was set for launch day and never changed. I hated plowing through a bunch of mobs only to see them in my way again (what felt like) seconds later. This was worse in caves where you were forced through the same mobs multiple times (especially if you missed something). I think other games have adjusted spawn times by local population... WildStar really needs this. (And when will MMOs get rid of mobs just 'popping'? if you're going to respawn quickly, at least have them come from somewhere sensible -- that's one of the things I liked about Defiance -- mobs came from trucks, underground, doors. It's time for these worlds to make more sense and be less static.)
The same is true for the path (explorer, settler, etc) interactions with other players. At launch it probably made sense for the path bonuses affecting other players to time out quickly (someone else was always there to restart it), but with the low population some of those timers could be lengthened. The settler path in general is a good example. Also, finding things on the map where one path builds it and the other path activates it -- a good idea if the map is active, but useless if you're the only one around. At least have the object last longer so that others can come along and benefit from them.
3. It did feel like I've done a lot of it before. I never really felt excited about seeing what was next. Most quest hubs and towns that I saw at low level didn't have a lot of character and were not memorable. The only thing that stood out was some giant mechanical tree thing that was dying. Everything else just seemed the same. I found the big Dominion city that I got to at 15 boring and annoying to navigate. Maybe things get more memorable at higher levels.
I think the game has potential. WildStar is a quality game in terms of what effort went into it. It feels like a game that should have been more memorable than it turned out to be for me. For example, the creativity put into the movies made from game footage didn't seem to translate into the world you played in. I'm not saying I need a long cutscene before and after every mission, but it felt like Carbine reserved more creativity for their movies than the actual game.
For me.... I played it and then wondered why I was playing a pay to play game with an unbalanced PvP system when I could be playing a free to play game with a balanced PvP say like Smite.
Smite was in every way better.
I hope they have learned their lesson and no longer have a gear gap. I have my doubts though. Some people never learn.
because mmo gamers are pansies now and if they can't faceroll content they quit.
Annnnd then proceed to whine about being able to faceroll
The problem with Wildstar was that the only challenging content was the raids. The hours of content to get there was faceroll stuff. IMO Wildstar should just given the people looking for a challenge a max level toon so they could get to the raiding. The rest of the game was for "pansies".
Don't tout your game to be hardcore/challenging when a small percentage of it actually is.
Loved cartoony looks, great combat, humour, had high hopes, .... what bothered me since day 1 when I discovered active spells are limited to only 1 (crippled) toolbar. For the rest, terrible lag in crowded areas, few bugs, .... Returned few weeks ago, left after few days. In addition to above problems no players anywhere, from time to time you see player there ... here ... and this adds to another problem: many group quests have become completely unplayable. I'm afraid I'm gone for good now and no FTP (I genuinely hate!) model will make me return.
I think that Wildstar's design concept of "arcade-platformer meets MMORPG" simply didn't appeal to the average player. The mashup just didn't work.
The slapstick humour and cartoony art was always a risky proposition. It worked very well in the 60-second promo video's they released before launch, but when you have to watch an hour's worth of that kind of entertainment it starts to grate a bit.
Their target market already plays a game much like it. If I have friends in a game, history with a game and a decent server community (RIP server communities), i'm not going to ditch a game for another one that's very similar even if the new one offers improvements.
They made a game for the 1% hardcore raiders, who already have a game and are unwilling to move.
It's difficult enough trying to maintain a 20-man group in a game that has millions of players. Trying to maintain a 40-man in a game without those players is impossible.
I was a hardcore Wildstar fan. I had 4 toons at max level and was gearing up for raids on my esper healer.
The problem with Wildstar was not the combat, but the bugs, performance issues, and content gating. It was designed for hardcore players in mind, and it hoped everyone would "rise to the occasion" in order to participate in it. There were some absolutely obnoxious gating mechanisms to enter raids that took a real masochist to "rise to the occasion" to complete it. Collecting items, killing stuff, doing silly kill quests. And honestly that may have been fine if it wouldn't have taken a HUGE amount of grind to get the collection stuff done, or if half the wold bosses weren't bugged so we could complete that step.
One thing WoW does right is scaling content for different difficulty levels. Also, 40 man raids just ain't a thing anymore. Period. Don't try to resurrect that horrible experience.
If Wildstar had better performance, fewer GAME HALTING bugs, more casual content/scaling content, and less clutter in every area of the game, I'd still be playing it. I like the art direction and the combat very much.
They spent millions of dollars and many years developing a game they decided to market to the smallest minority of gamers in MMO's. It failed hard. On top of that the combat wasn't fun and felt clunky and unresponsive most of the time. The one thing that was good about the game as the housing. A pretty fun housing system.
a) It had at first no free trial. Combine that with point b on this list, and those were basically reason enough to not play the game.
b) it was a combination of buy2play and pay2win. You not only had to buy the game, the game also allowed anyone to spend real life money to basically purchase everything in the game. That combination turned me really off.
c) Quite linear.
d) Always the same weapon types for your character.
I nearly bought Wildstar at several momenst anyway, but then remembered all the good single player games I had, and played those instead.
While the game had no free trial as such, I bought the boxed game at such a low price that it effectively made it a free trial, considering the 30 free days of play. I was so bored with it that I doubt I played it for more than six days and then wiped it off my hard drive. The game had no excitement, no atmosphere and no sense of the game being "alive" but it DID, sadly, have the usual copypasta "collect 10 of this" quests and cookie-cutter class archetypes.
Originally posted by MMOExposed What went wrong with Wildstar in your opinion?
In my opinion the devs made few mistakes but costly mistakes
1- They started by alienating 95% of the players when they launched the game on the premises of "this is a game for hardcore players"
2- The combat with those stupid numbers popping in the screen, hit 560, 789, 800, etc etc very, very annoying.
3- The initial quest lines were poorly designed
4- The crafting was horrible
5- The need for 40 men raid (did they learn by WoW that it does not work)
Well they are other stuff but those were my main issues.
Yeah thats they did start to alienating 95% of the players, even people that had a lot following was supporting this game on hardcore side, us that don't have big following we seen this bad move as we been alienating.
The combat was not so so bad, more like GW2 but with less custom how your weapon are, if ones warrior can only use a 2 hand only not much change then the skin, there are people get like to change it up to keep playing.
Was designed was not so bad some of it pretty good at lower level, but start seeing less of better designed at higher level, I think there big misteak making level grind so long.... when most there time was on them 40 man and 20 man.
But my other issues as well, having faction in the first place, makes one side pack up side, even wow still dealing with this problem having to many of 1 faction at one side.
But hope it don't turn out like warhammer online, when there no point feel like the sub is worth it or the progression is to high to just get in too, so people just stand around town and drop off go to there next game after only playing small part of the game that was worth it to play.
Originally posted by Panzerbase The arrival of generation entitled is what went wrong.
lol...irony? show me a mmo gamer, that isnt ENTITLED..i doubt such a creature exists
WS devs didnt understand the market, apparantly ncsoft had a brain bleeding too, or they would have stopped it
long time ago
People love to throw this "entitled" word around these days, typically not know what it means. Just because you make something hard does not make it fun. Having to watch out for a gazillion red things to jump and dodge over is not my idea of fun. If I really wanted to do it I could, it just is not fun. If being hardcore and not being "entitled" means doing hard things that are not fun just for the sake of being hard.....well then call me entitled.
People should stop regurgitating the harcore excuse.
Fact is, most quited that game way before reaching anything that could be called hardcore mechanics.
It was just plain boring & obnoxious. That is all.
Why people use the hardcore excuse, is that people got bored with the content with to many walls and grind meant for people that have more time then people who get to play less then 10 hours a week. If any mmo can have a hardcore part of it, should not be the main things going with the game, should have more option, but don't mean we can't have hardcore and it will fail or anytype but don't hope for it being popular or very big player base, meaning the game going cut down there team and update as slow as D3.
Just not to popular to make a game that's 90% of it spend more time grinding to get to the fun part.
Blame NCSoft and Carbine for thinking hardcore attunements and hardcore raiding was actually enjoyable. Brick walls are not a winning strategy, and FFXIV's Heavensward made the same mistake.
The reason why I never played it was because it looked like WOW. The characters looked like WOW, the world looked like WOW, the quests seemed like WOW, they even blatantly said they were trying to bring back vanilla WOW (IE - 40 man raids and hardcore content).
Now, flash back several years before Wildstar's release. The MMORPG community was sick of WOW clones. Trion took all of the WOW re-rollers with Rift, which just thinned out how much people could stomach more wow clones when Rift was launched in 2011. Then combine that with not so blatant WOW rip-offs being released through out the decade and people were over it. It didn't matter if Wildstar how 0 bugs, perfect execution, whatever. They shot themselves in the foot when they decided to release another WOW clone (Quite arguably the biggest WOW clone ever, topping out Rift), into the MMORPG marketplace.
Eventually, the same thing will happen to MOBA's. You can only slap so many skins on the same thing before people start to realize they are playing the same game, just with a different skin. Unfortunately, for most of you, you are having a hard time figuring this out.
Comments
Don't talk to me about my personal likes when it comes to combat in MMO's. I leveled up my Warrior up to 50 and did lots of BG's , but somehow , I could not get pass the combat think, even with the skills you said. Sure, it lasted few weeks since the game was new and all , even with that type of combat, but at the end, combat was the main reason of why I quit WS.
Because of the combat, I tried every class in the hope that I will find one which will play acceptable for me. Sadly, I found out that WS is also kind of lacking when it comes to classes.
And I hate Carbine for this. I say again, if I remember correctly, at first , they showed us a more friendly and classic combat / tab-targeting version of Wildstar. That was, until they ..saw the success of GW2 and they decided to go the same route. BAD decision because everything else I liked about WS. The settings, the humor , raids, missions, etc.
Again, I can't stand action-oriented combat in MMO's. That's why I don't play Tera, BnS ( tried it ) , GW2 , etc.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Its been said already,
Wildstar's claim to fame was being "hardcore" yet they went with very cartoony graphics and gameplay. Personally I don't mind the graphics, but if your going to the hardcore crowd I would have picked a darker theme.
Plus, the "hardcore" crowd is much smaller than game forums would lead you to believe. Most gamers are casual. Wildstar was attempting to cater to a very select group of gamers, all the while using resources for extremely casual things like player housing. I seriously doubt hardcore raiders care about playing house in an MMO.
TLDR: Wildstar did not understand the crowd they were attempting to cater to. This is why they failed.
I played late beta then two 7 day free passes, so I don't have too much experience with the game. But there are a few reasons I didn't want to keep going back. I admit they aren't the strongest points to be made, but they are my first impressions given that I didn't get past level 16 on either of the two characters I played.
1. I hate to say it so it sounds like "too much content" but it felt like a game made for those with ADHD. You fill up on the overabundance of quests only to stumble on "Challenge Begins!" when you're trying to accomplish something else. Sure, you can go back and do it later, but I'm a bit of a completionist so it started to feel like quests/missions were being dumped on me before I could get much off my list. I suppose the correct answer is that there's more than enough content to come back a second time and not have to repeat everything. Unfortunately, it felt like I was too busy to actually see the world Carbine created. (I know most of you won't like this point, but be kind.)
What I did like was when challenges fit more with the missions you were doing (and not just kill x in 2 minutes). For example, I completed a mission to find an antidote (or something like that) and was met with a challenge to bring it back to a location in time. I was going to that location anyway, so it made the trip back more interesting.
2. The respawn timer felt like it was set for launch day and never changed. I hated plowing through a bunch of mobs only to see them in my way again (what felt like) seconds later. This was worse in caves where you were forced through the same mobs multiple times (especially if you missed something). I think other games have adjusted spawn times by local population... WildStar really needs this. (And when will MMOs get rid of mobs just 'popping'? if you're going to respawn quickly, at least have them come from somewhere sensible -- that's one of the things I liked about Defiance -- mobs came from trucks, underground, doors. It's time for these worlds to make more sense and be less static.)
The same is true for the path (explorer, settler, etc) interactions with other players. At launch it probably made sense for the path bonuses affecting other players to time out quickly (someone else was always there to restart it), but with the low population some of those timers could be lengthened. The settler path in general is a good example. Also, finding things on the map where one path builds it and the other path activates it -- a good idea if the map is active, but useless if you're the only one around. At least have the object last longer so that others can come along and benefit from them.
3. It did feel like I've done a lot of it before. I never really felt excited about seeing what was next. Most quest hubs and towns that I saw at low level didn't have a lot of character and were not memorable. The only thing that stood out was some giant mechanical tree thing that was dying. Everything else just seemed the same. I found the big Dominion city that I got to at 15 boring and annoying to navigate. Maybe things get more memorable at higher levels.
I think the game has potential. WildStar is a quality game in terms of what effort went into it. It feels like a game that should have been more memorable than it turned out to be for me. For example, the creativity put into the movies made from game footage didn't seem to translate into the world you played in. I'm not saying I need a long cutscene before and after every mission, but it felt like Carbine reserved more creativity for their movies than the actual game.
It came about too late, mmorpgs are done in general. We are in a mmorpg recession.
If this game would have came out in 2012/2013 it would have been ok.
Smite was in every way better.
I hope they have learned their lesson and no longer have a gear gap. I have my doubts though. Some people never learn.
no, there are more mmos on the market, than ever before, and more new ones on the way
the market is saturated, though..new mmos will struggle to survive
WS targeted the smallest segment of players, they got, what they wanted
lol...irony? show me a mmo gamer, that isnt ENTITLED..i doubt such a creature exists
WS devs didnt understand the market, apparantly ncsoft had a brain bleeding too, or they would have stopped it
long time ago
The problem with Wildstar was that the only challenging content was the raids. The hours of content to get there was faceroll stuff. IMO Wildstar should just given the people looking for a challenge a max level toon so they could get to the raiding. The rest of the game was for "pansies".
Don't tout your game to be hardcore/challenging when a small percentage of it actually is.
I think that Wildstar's design concept of "arcade-platformer meets MMORPG" simply didn't appeal to the average player. The mashup just didn't work.
The slapstick humour and cartoony art was always a risky proposition. It worked very well in the 60-second promo video's they released before launch, but when you have to watch an hour's worth of that kind of entertainment it starts to grate a bit.
lol this. I'm so tired of mmo noobs throwing this term around at every game.
They made a game for the 1% hardcore raiders, who already have a game and are unwilling to move.
It's difficult enough trying to maintain a 20-man group in a game that has millions of players. Trying to maintain a 40-man in a game without those players is impossible.
I was a hardcore Wildstar fan. I had 4 toons at max level and was gearing up for raids on my esper healer.
The problem with Wildstar was not the combat, but the bugs, performance issues, and content gating. It was designed for hardcore players in mind, and it hoped everyone would "rise to the occasion" in order to participate in it. There were some absolutely obnoxious gating mechanisms to enter raids that took a real masochist to "rise to the occasion" to complete it. Collecting items, killing stuff, doing silly kill quests. And honestly that may have been fine if it wouldn't have taken a HUGE amount of grind to get the collection stuff done, or if half the wold bosses weren't bugged so we could complete that step.
One thing WoW does right is scaling content for different difficulty levels. Also, 40 man raids just ain't a thing anymore. Period. Don't try to resurrect that horrible experience.
If Wildstar had better performance, fewer GAME HALTING bugs, more casual content/scaling content, and less clutter in every area of the game, I'd still be playing it. I like the art direction and the combat very much.
In my opinion the devs made few mistakes but costly mistakes
1- They started by alienating 95% of the players when they launched the game on the premises of "this is a game for hardcore players"
2- The combat with those stupid numbers popping in the screen, hit 560, 789, 800, etc etc very, very annoying.
3- The initial quest lines were poorly designed
4- The crafting was horrible
5- The need for 40 men raid (did they learn by WoW that it does not work)
Well they are other stuff but those were my main issues.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
a) It had at first no free trial. Combine that with point b on this list, and those were basically reason enough to not play the game.
b) it was a combination of buy2play and pay2win. You not only had to buy the game, the game also allowed anyone to spend real life money to basically purchase everything in the game. That combination turned me really off.
c) Quite linear.
d) Always the same weapon types for your character.
I nearly bought Wildstar at several momenst anyway, but then remembered all the good single player games I had, and played those instead.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Yeah thats they did start to alienating 95% of the players, even people that had a lot following was supporting this game on hardcore side, us that don't have big following we seen this bad move as we been alienating.
The combat was not so so bad, more like GW2 but with less custom how your weapon are, if ones warrior can only use a 2 hand only not much change then the skin, there are people get like to change it up to keep playing.
Was designed was not so bad some of it pretty good at lower level, but start seeing less of better designed at higher level, I think there big misteak making level grind so long.... when most there time was on them 40 man and 20 man.
But my other issues as well, having faction in the first place, makes one side pack up side, even wow still dealing with this problem having to many of 1 faction at one side.
But hope it don't turn out like warhammer online, when there no point feel like the sub is worth it or the progression is to high to just get in too, so people just stand around town and drop off go to there next game after only playing small part of the game that was worth it to play.
People love to throw this "entitled" word around these days, typically not know what it means. Just because you make something hard does not make it fun. Having to watch out for a gazillion red things to jump and dodge over is not my idea of fun. If I really wanted to do it I could, it just is not fun. If being hardcore and not being "entitled" means doing hard things that are not fun just for the sake of being hard.....well then call me entitled.
the setting...Sci-fi with swords
the opening story...single player story in a multiplayer environment
action combat...I prefer tab targeting in my MMORPGs
I found it boring overall, It couldn't hold my attention past a few hours
Why people use the hardcore excuse, is that people got bored with the content with to many walls and grind meant for people that have more time then people who get to play less then 10 hours a week. If any mmo can have a hardcore part of it, should not be the main things going with the game, should have more option, but don't mean we can't have hardcore and it will fail or anytype but don't hope for it being popular or very big player base, meaning the game going cut down there team and update as slow as D3.
Just not to popular to make a game that's 90% of it spend more time grinding to get to the fun part.
The reason why I never played it was because it looked like WOW. The characters looked like WOW, the world looked like WOW, the quests seemed like WOW, they even blatantly said they were trying to bring back vanilla WOW (IE - 40 man raids and hardcore content).
Now, flash back several years before Wildstar's release. The MMORPG community was sick of WOW clones. Trion took all of the WOW re-rollers with Rift, which just thinned out how much people could stomach more wow clones when Rift was launched in 2011. Then combine that with not so blatant WOW rip-offs being released through out the decade and people were over it. It didn't matter if Wildstar how 0 bugs, perfect execution, whatever. They shot themselves in the foot when they decided to release another WOW clone (Quite arguably the biggest WOW clone ever, topping out Rift), into the MMORPG marketplace.
Eventually, the same thing will happen to MOBA's. You can only slap so many skins on the same thing before people start to realize they are playing the same game, just with a different skin. Unfortunately, for most of you, you are having a hard time figuring this out.