Really dissappointing

grimboj · February 2006

I don't know why but every video i'd seen inferred that the game was an mmofps - I think someone made a really bad decision here. It's actually more annoying to be in a car for an mmorpg than it is to walk - you roll past agro range then agro everything and when you do get in range - you jus sit still holding down the mouse button and watching the pretty numbers

Vhaln · February 2006

I've been in beta since july, and have been saying ever since, that the game should either be more FPS or more RPG. As a hybrid, I just can't get into it. I need either more depth and roleplaying, or more 'twitch' fun, rather than another levelquest.

With the game in its current state, I think adding more depth would be a monumental task, however it would be relatively easy to make it more action oriented.

Remove all con system level modifiers, so that stats and equipment would matter, and levels would indirectly matter, but they wouldn't matter nearly as much. Players would still level up to get better equipment, more skills, etc, but level wouldn't trump everything, especially not skilled driving.
Change the turret to a heavy artillery weapon mount, with the front weapons for light artillery - both always face forward, so you have to handle your vehicle well to hit your target.
Bind weapon fire to single keystrokes, so that you hit the fire key(s) when you get the target in your sights, rather than just holding them down all the time. Make heavy artillery slower, but more devastating and strategic in its usage. (and replace DD skills with weaponfire enhancing skills. e.g. targetted shot, explosive shot, etc)
Fix the driving physics, so that vehicles do more realisitic drifting, skidding, and sliding around. Vehicles shouldn't flip when they hit a pebble in the road, but might roll when they go careening through an oil slick, off into a ditch. Different chassis should handle very differently, but they should all feel more massive.

So, players would still be levelling up, but it wouldn't be so restrictive. It wouldn't feel like the whole point of the game, and the gameplay itself would be more fun instead. Especially upon getting to ground zero and competing with other players.

I post these "suggestions" only for the sake of discussion, curious what others think, but I know it's just not the direction the devs want to take the game.

BobbyShaftoe · February 2006

I've been looking for something to play since I left my last game so I have been doing betas. I have to say this is the one I played the least. It is just plain old unentertaining, vastly different then what I expected. It's almost as disappointing as DDO, and that's saying something.

Nully · February 2006

im also dissapointed in AA i just couldnt get into it oh well

Mordekane · February 2006

Pretty original idea, but I just couldn't get into it either.

Anofalye · February 2006

I agree that they either need to change some basic gameplay elements (this late = too late IMO), or refocus STRONGLY their marketing.

I can't stand a FPS game unless in a LAN with real friends and only for a few moments (not many hours). And I am considering AA. The gameplay is sweet and nice, but it is not a FPS. Reflexs and coordinations are not really needed, but it is FAST, yes it is fast (not as fast as CoH however). Heck, I was trying AA "just for the fun of it", not really thinking I might enjoy it...and with the DDO deception, they get a nice spot in my hype. FPS lovers should consider DDO before AA.

It is FAST, but reflex and coordinations are not that important in this game (which is a big reason why I enjoy it), you need a rough basic of it but that is it. The game is NICE, but not what they advertise.

PS: Thinking of it, the gameplay feel related, like a distant cousin, to CoH. Prolly got some input from their friendly neighbor under the NCsoft tag.

Vhaln · February 2006

Originally posted by Anofalye
I agree that they either need to change some basic gameplay elements (this late = too late IMO), or refocus STRONGLY their marketing.

More realistically, exactly. Even watching the trailers for the game, you'd think it were more like Planetside, when it's really more like CoH and E&B. I agree, they're advertising appeals to the wrong sort of gamers. It should be squarely aimed at the casual RPGamers - not the serious RPGamers who want the sandbox with all sorts of complexity or immersion, and not the twitch gamers who want an MMOFPS - but those who just want a simple MMORPG, where they can level up, collect loot, maybe dabble in PvP - or not, etc. Those who actually liked CoH or E&B.

Echostar · February 2006

Also in agreement here. I just could not get into this game at all, the midground just made for boring gameplay. They need to figure out something to do with this game because releasing as is this game will go away faster then Horizons did.

Torchwood · March 2006

I would not want to see this turned into another FPS. Plenty of those out there already. Its fast paced, fun. I don't want to test my clicking skills. I want to burn some time up and have some fun.

Blue3000 · March 2006

Hey! Whats all this? This is not good to hear. I'm hoping this game turns out to be pretty decent but all I'm reading are bad reviews.

I'm also loking for a good game. I've been thru' about a dozen of the top games out here and don't really like any of them so far.

Hope all thses bad reviews are just in he beta and will be different once game begins.

Mysk · March 2006

Yeah, they're definitely misadvertising this game. I received an email from them a couple of days ago saying that play is free for a very short time now.

It advertised some "points" about the game in the email. One of the lines mentioned the Havok physics engine that they're using and then went on to say something like, ".... level entire towns, ram pedestrian enemies and watch them go flying!"

This is absolute nonsense.

For one, if you ram an enemy that's running around on foot then you simply pass right through them. They may move ever so slightly to the side but this seemed to be more due to the fact that they walk out of your way than anything else.

Secondly, ramming a walking enemey doesn't always do damage. The game is so level based that you often "miss", even if you hit them head on! Regardless, they never, EVER "go flying".

As far as "leveling entire towns" is concerned, that's equally nonsense. You have circles of buildings with make shift walls around them. The buildings are almost always mere shacks or wooden towers and they're typically not much larger than your vehicle.

There are some houses out and about, but a single house is hardly an entire town! There are also occasionally buildings that are larger than your vehicle but they weren't all that common.

I played a mutant character around the level of 15, just FYI.

Over exagerated advertising? Yeah, you bet. The only thing that seemed to use the physics engine were the bugs, and that was only after they were killed so that they would rag doll roll.

~Mysk, /tired

JtHM · March 2006

Originally posted by Mysk

Yeah, they're definitely misadvertising this game. I received an email from them a couple of days ago saying that play is free for a very short time now.
It advertised some "points" about the game in the email. One of the lines mentioned the Havok physics engine that they're using and then went on to say something like, ".... level entire towns, ram pedestrian enemies and watch them go flying!"
This is absolute nonsense.
For one, if you ram an enemy that's running around on foot then you simply pass right through them. They may move ever so slightly to the side but this seemed to be more due to the fact that they walk out of your way than anything else.
Secondly, ramming a walking enemey doesn't always do damage. The game is so level based that you often "miss", even if you hit them head on! Regardless, they never, EVER "go flying".
As far as "leveling entire towns" is concerned, that's equally nonsense. You have circles of buildings with make shift walls around them. The buildings are almost always mere shacks or wooden towers and they're typically not much larger than your vehicle.
There are some houses out and about, but a single house is hardly an entire town! There are also occasionally buildings that are larger than your vehicle but they weren't all that common.
I played a mutant character around the level of 15, just FYI.
Over exagerated advertising? Yeah, you bet. The only thing that seemed to use the physics engine were the bugs, and that was only after they were killed so that they would rag doll roll.
~Mysk, /tired

I have to call BS here, its getting a little deep... I don't know exactly what you're doing wrong if you've never seen the physics engine in action, but you're definitely doing something wrong. I see bodies flying all the time, and debris, other vehicles, everything. Are there occasional problems with it? Sure, what game out there in beta (or even released for that matter) doesn't have its problems, but I think you're BY FAR exaggerating your claims simply for trolling purposes.

As for the other point... If you made it to level 15 and all you ever saw were small shacks you must have done a lot of grinding in the newbie areas on blue and green con crap. There are definitely a lot of really large and impressive structures out there to destroy...

Vhaln · March 2006

As far as running over infantry goes, I'd have to almost agree - it is pretty rare to send them flying, and far more often, assuming you hit, they just go splat, and collapse. I think this is actually due to the devs depending too heavily on the Havok engine to calculate such things adequately, when it really needs various tweaks, such as ramming damage resulting in a little extra upward motion, just because that's more fun to see. Why not even give corpses a chance of sticking to the windshield for a second

Also, ramming itself seems to be triggered by the Havok engine detecting a collision, when I think it'd be more effective if implemented a bit more artificially. The raw physics do wierd things like cause a ramming semi to fly over the ramp-like hood of a little car or bike, doing zero damage, and sending the semi airborn. A more artificial system might detect mere speed+proximity to trigger the ram, and add momentum*trajectory knockback to the little car, so that it doesn't act as a ramp.

Another issue is that peds don't fall over unless killed. I think if you could send them flying, even when they're still alive, it'd be more plausible than the way they just dance in front of your bumper.

So anyhow, I can understand the complaints. Havok is an impressive engine, but I think the AA devs rely too heavily on it, when they could get more out of it, sometimes indirectly.

JtHM · March 2006

I think the biggest thing with the infantry is how much damage your melee weapon is doing to them when you ram them and what type it is, etc. They seem to fly a lot more often with no melee weapon mounted, ie when they don't die from being hit, etc... Like I said, there are definitely problems with the system, but I stand by that its definitely an exaggeration to say they "never ever" fly or such...

Vhaln · March 2006

Oh yeah, and another problem with hitting pedestrians is net latency. The client doesn't predict a hit, so they tend to die a split second after you've passed them, which is why their ragdoll just crumples. I think it'd be much better if the client would do the ragdoll effect immediately upon client-side impact, regardless of the server's to-hit roll. It'd have no effect on balance, because the infantry could keep attacking if it turns out you missed, but it'd look better, especially when you don't miss.

I can't help but wonder why NetDevil hasn't addressed details like this. It is a pretty big first-impression type thing, when the new player spots thier first pike miner, and goes barrelling into them - only to see the little guy dancing around imperviously in front of thier vehicle. When you expected a nice satifsfying roadkill Carmageddon-style, it's a pretty understandable first reaction to think, how [censored] stupid!!!

JtHM · March 2006

Yeah, I fully agree there are issues there. I definitely feel that it is directly related to the amount of damage they take when hit. One of the funnest times I've had in beta was when I first rolled up my first toon, was level 1, and was out smacking around pedestrians. They were flying all over the place back then. Only difference I can think of was that I was so low level and had no melee weapon mounted, therefore was doing next to no damage to them.

I still see it occasionally (don't get me wrong, my argument against the OP wasn't that it ALWAYS happens, just that his claim of NEVER EVER was a bit exaggerated) but nowhere near as often as back then.

Or maybe its different now because of some tweaking they did behind the scenes to the physics system. I know I read on the official forums one of the Devs talking about some changes they bad a bit ago affecting vehicle weight and its effect on melee (ramming) damage etc...

deveck · March 2006

what I don't get is why all these beta-testers go to the forums to bitch about how much a game IN BETA sucks instead of going to the beta forums and REPORTING IT...that's the point of beta testing...they go through those things and read it all...report it...don't bitch about it...

That's why its still in BETA...that's why it dosn't have an actual release date...because they want people...like you...to tell them why it sucks...go there...now...Do it...

Mysk · March 2006

Nope, not an exageration. Glad to see that someone actually saw them go flying, because it didn't happen for me once. Not with a melee weapon and not with out. They either stepped to the side or they splatted.

I did miss mentioning that bits of debries goes tumbling or flying about as required. Mentioning that would be like saying the cars roll on wheels; it didn't seem important to point out. Yes, you'll see bits of buildings, fences and what have you break apart, go tumbling, and so forth as it should.

Someone did point out something that I should have mentioned however, and that's hitting other vehicles and sending them ramping. Sometimes there would be damage, sometimes not, but you could pop trucks into the air. NPC (far more often than mob, aka the fanatics) vehicles would occasionally knock my vehicle airborn as well.

The car physics seemed jacked though. Occasionally my vehicle would hit the ground and tumble over then slide, but more often than not it'd hit and stop. There'd be a tiny little bounce where the wheels hardly left the ground, but otherwise nada. That seemed pretty silly to me, the vehicle should have bounced or rolled or somehow continued to move forward... and no, I'm not talking about nose dives. These sudden stops would occurre after ramping off of huge mesas and landing wheels first.

I rolled through areas with pink con critters and, like I said, I saw the occasional large structure. It was not common, and "leveling entire towns" is BS. Doesn't happen unless you seriously stretch the definition of "town" to mean those rings of Pike shacks (or something similar).

/shrug

Was not at all impressed. Your milage may vary , but the advertisement is too exagerated for this game IMO.

Stormraven1 · March 2006

Ya i am downloading the client so i can get into the beta right now...but reading all these forums is giving me second thoughts...did i make the wrong choice?

JtHM · March 2006

How is trying something for free and deciding for yourself ever the wrong choice? Or do you generally let other people make up your mind for you? AA is definitely one of those games you'll either love or hate, personally I love it, obviously some people here hate it. You'll either have to give it a fair shot (ie don't go in with a predetermined and biased opinion based on what you read here) and decide for yourself, or well, just assume you'll hate it and delete the download and never know for sure...

Vhaln · March 2006

Yeah, its definately worth trying. We're not talking some half-baked underfunded game that won't even be worth looking at untill a year or two after release (e.g. half the games to the left) AA is a solid game, just not to everyone's tastes. Too easy and too shallow to be as much fun as it could be, in my opinion, but lots of other people find it to be a lot of fun. So yeah, definately worth finding out for yourself.

Scaris · March 2006

Well I finally got it installed and am trying it out this weekend. My intitial response to it is...

It's corny!

I hated it at first but then it got abit better and I am gonna continue to try it til I know I hate it or I like it.

Mysk · March 2006

Oh feel free to give it a shot. You may have a blast with it. Just be aware that the game isn't everything that it's advertised/hyped up to be; that's all I'm saying.

I was obviously bored with it (for various reasons), but I couldn't care less if someone has the time of their life with the game. ::::39::

Scaris · March 2006

Originally posted by Mysk
Oh feel free to give it a shot. You may have a blast with it. Just be aware that the game isn't everything that it's advertised/hyped up to be; that's all I'm saying.I was obviously bored with it (for various reasons), but I couldn't care less if someone has the time of their life with the game.

I have never read the official website on it. I have never read the forums on it, all I know it's a game where your in a post apocalypse setting and you drive cars with guns...

So it really can't let me down from a hype perspective. I prefer not to read the hype about a game til after I try it if I can at all do that.

Garrik · March 2006

Iv been playing it abit recently, i must say it is pretty good but definatly not anything amazing. The only things that anoyed me with it where that is want a true MMORFPS/Twitch based combat system, which i had really been hoping for and also the some of the physics, not only the vehicle physics but also when you shoot a building down, it kind of stands back up for a second then crumbles again and that was just weird.

Overall it has potential and with a few tweaks it will be a nice stable game that will attract certain types of gamers.

Garrik

deveck · March 2006

Personaly I love the game. I found the havoc engine is steadily improving and it has such great potential...plus its an open ended release date so it could come out in june for all we know...LoL...just keep posting your issues at the beta forums as well as here...

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Really dissappointing