Put it this way, the moron will often say ' not trying to insult you, but [insult here]. The clever person will reflect why they need to insult that person and temper their comments. That's being civilised and what trolls lack, an ability to see beyond their own world.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Vutar Hey guys, I'm not a troll. I'm just going to make an inflammatory post bashing a group of people who like a particular play style and finish it off by questioning their economic status. I don't post here much though, so its okay...
Well, he definitely isn't a troll.
People use the word troll for everything these days. *bleh*
I miss the troll. They were clever. Usually smarter than most people. A good troll would come this forum, find a juicy thread and then post a response telling everyone how stupid their ideas are (trap), making sure to include a few spelling errors in their post (bait).
Then just sit back and watch the dumb animals flock to the trap, because forum posters just can't let a spelling error go without commentary.
After playing Ragefire EQ 1 progression server it made me realize this kind of gaming, is dead and dated now.For one, no one has the mind set of the past im sure a few gamers do but every one is rushing to server first, playing easy solo classes, hardly any one wants to group, when you do group no one is social, no one wants to talk, no one wants to build communities, no one wants to take it slow...
A majority on this server want to box and take down bosses and level asap. Though its not their fault, its just how gaming has now become, even I who rooted for old school gaming, am now seeing how this type of mmorpg is not really fun any more. In the past I had no job, really no life, I was in high school just hung out with friends and played video games, didnt need a scheduel or family to worry about, etc. I could stay in my room for hours on end going on adventures, meeting other people and have great convos.
Well those people who were basement dwellers, staying in their room, living off their moms, now find themselves well some of them...find themselves with jobs, time management, families, lives etc..so not needing to depend on forming a group, waiting for others to level etc is a good thing for a lot of us, thats why almost 99% of the players on ragefire are mages or casters because its easy to level, no needing to depend on a group, and its fast.
A mmorpg like old school EQ will not be what people think it will be. Embrace twitch gaming, gaming where time management is viable etc. Its just the way of the future.
It's just his opinion, there's no need to get all angry about the fact that he is posting about how he thinks old school gaming was. In reality it's all just rose tinted glasses to me, but some people truly think that they would be so much happier if games stayed like old EQ, there's plenty of options to play those out there, just not many people actually doing it, which is why when the progression servers open, it's a bust of about 20000 people trying to play it, then about 3/4ths of those players realize that they don't enjoy that type of game anymore and stop playing. Which is exactly what happened with the last 2 progression servers they released. I'm not saying I don't enjoy old games sometimes, I've been dabbling in EQ and 1999, but I can't make those my mainstay games, they just don't do it for me for long periods of time, it gets boring in my opinion.
It never stuck because it was never done right,it does not make the idea bad or wrong.FFXI is imo the ONLY game that did some justice to grouping and is why i never got into or stuck around in any of the other old school games.
I see far more wrong with the EQ2/Wow design than any of those grouping games.
How players play is NOT an indication of a bad design either,that would be an indication of shallow rpg players that want nothing but to race to the best boss drops.That is NOT RP gaming by any stretch and i said it back before Wow even came out,the majority of mmorpg players should not be in a rpg.
The whole premise of advancing the genre to a MMO was to remove the same path,linear game play that single player games offered,otherwise why bother with internet and other players?The idea was that a true RP'ing game would allow YOU to play YOUR own path and decide where ina game world you would do it.The problem is developers see the Wow design as just being cheap and easy to do so they stick with it.The Wow design is a linear path that does NOT allow you to RP,to play out YOUR own game,it is a paint by numbers or connect the dots or train on rails ,whatever analogy you want to toss at it.
Here is the real funny part.....
The OP made a statement/s about nobody wanting to chat or go slow or group,well how does a single player design help ANY of that?It doesn't it actually encourages exactly what the OP was complaining about.Simply put modern mmorpg's are the ANTI MMO and the anti RP and they cater to a gamer that doesn't know old school because a VERY high % of them never grew up grouping.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think that a big part of the oldschool MMO magic was the MMO part. To be online in a 3d world with lots of other ppl. This was still special back then (for me anyway). There was no 'been here, done this' attitude, so rushing through content was for the minority of people.
Nowadays, an online world is taken for granted. Everything now is massively online. So take that away and what is left ? Quite a grindy shallow rpg with extra repetition put in, to make it seem as if the game has a lot of content.
You can't get that back, it is nostalgia speaking for most of us.
So a new MMO now has to make up for this with an actual good game. It is just too bad that those new games don't come with a convincing virtual world.
I thought this this thread had closed? You can't really hate old school, because it lives on in the new school. There are elements that you may assume are 'new', but many are old but a bit more refined.
So a new MMO now has to make up for this with an actual good game. It is just too bad that those new games don't come with a convincing virtual world.
Why "too bad" if they are "actual good games"? May be virtual worlds are not good for good games.
Have to agree so many actual good games regardless if I might dislike them, seeing so many people enjoying those games.
Virtual Worlds is indeed a niche and simply not populair with the masses.
And while I do consider myself a old school gamer I never really could go back to games from then who are still online. I do want certain old school feature's but more in the sence of SWG then those from EQ but definitly in made with the most current tech. But as I made clear in many topics/reply's I also enjoy some of the current MMO's but different then I want to experiance a MMORPG.
I don't want all MMO or MMORPG to be geared to a specific type of gamer because I feel there is plenty of room in this genre to have all kinds of MMORPG's
So a new MMO now has to make up for this with an actual good game. It is just too bad that those new games don't come with a convincing virtual world.
Why "too bad" if they are "actual good games"? May be virtual worlds are not good for good games.
I don't see why a good MMO game can't come with a convincing virtual world. I think it just takes a lot of dev time to do in addition to creating a good game.
As for why ' too bad', well there are a lot of single player games that easily blow any MMO's gameplay out of the water. It is the virtual world that used to be one of the major attractions for me in a MMO. That and the massively multiplay part, was why I accepted the average game mechanics part.
So a new MMO now has to make up for this with an actual good game. It is just too bad that those new games don't come with a convincing virtual world.
Why "too bad" if they are "actual good games"? May be virtual worlds are not good for good games.
Have to agree so many actual good games regardless if I might dislike them, seeing so many people enjoying those games.
Virtual Worlds is indeed a niche and simply not populair with the masses.
And while I do consider myself a old school gamer I never really could go back to games from then who are still online. I do want certain old school feature's but more in the sence of SWG then those from EQ but definitly in made with the most current tech. But as I made clear in many topics/reply's I also enjoy some of the current MMO's but different then I want to experiance a MMORPG.
I don't want all MMO or MMORPG to be geared to a specific type of gamer because I feel there is plenty of room in this genre to have all kinds of MMORPG's
That i agree .. except there is not plenty of money to fund all of them because MMORPGs are expensive. They are not like iOS games where you can do a good one with minimal investments.
I don't see why a good MMO game can't come with a convincing virtual world. I think it just takes a lot of dev time to do in addition to creating a good game.
You just answered your own question. A lot of dev time costs a lot of money. If they can get away with not, why bother? In fact, many companies are now getting away of not making MMORPGs at all.
Ragefire isn't like old school EQ at all, it has no death penalty, it has very prevalent multiboxing and classes are completely unbalanced.
Multiboxing has nothing to do with old school gaming. It only became prevalent in Everquest years after launch and SoE basically started to condone automation programs.
No one ever claimed old school MMORPG's were perfect; the complaint is the features and focus of what made those games great has been completely abandoned by the modern MMO's.
Originally posted by Viper482 No one ever claimed old school MMORPG's were perfect; the complaint is the features and focus of what made those games great has been completely abandoned by the modern MMO's.
May be those games just weren't that great .. and that is why their core designs were abandoned and changed.
After playing Ragefire EQ 1 progression server it made me realize this kind of gaming, is dead and dated now.For one, no one has the mind set of the past im sure a few gamers do but every one is rushing to server first, playing easy solo classes, hardly any one wants to group, when you do group no one is social, no one wants to talk, no one wants to build communities, no one wants to take it slow...
A majority on this server want to box and take down bosses and level asap. Though its not their fault, its just how gaming has now become, even I who rooted for old school gaming, am now seeing how this type of mmorpg is not really fun any more. In the past I had no job, really no life, I was in high school just hung out with friends and played video games, didnt need a scheduel or family to worry about, etc. I could stay in my room for hours on end going on adventures, meeting other people and have great convos.
Well those people who were basement dwellers, staying in their room, living off their moms, now find themselves well some of them...find themselves with jobs, time management, families, lives etc..so not needing to depend on forming a group, waiting for others to level etc is a good thing for a lot of us, thats why almost 99% of the players on ragefire are mages or casters because its easy to level, no needing to depend on a group, and its fast.
A mmorpg like old school EQ will not be what people think it will be. Embrace twitch gaming, gaming where time management is viable etc. Its just the way of the future.
I am an old school UO/EQ player - and I lasted about 2 days on Ragefire.
It's not that old school gaming sucks, as your title suggests. It's exactly what you say in your post however. Ragefire is what happens when old school gaming is confronted by the modern mindset - and some modern technologies and innovations.
Sure, boxing was always a thing - but I'd never once seen a six boxer back in 1999-2001. I'd seen a couple of people keeping an AFK character parked behind them for heals/buffs/carries. That's not quite as brutal as the 6 mage ganking armies.
Because Everquest was a game that didn't have many boxers back in the day AND the grind was literally 2x-4x heftier (depending on your class/race combo), it was pointless to rush. And for all but the best players of certain classes, grouping was the fastest EXP anyway. Some classes had no choice but to group.
It did foster an incredible gaming community, the likes of which - you're right - we'll probably never see again.
Old School gaming was amazing... but it was the people who made it so. Unfortunately nowaday, the genre and player base have evolved into this solo-happy rush-orientated thing and the old school mindset which is what got so many of us into MMOs is just gone.
Originally posted by Viper482 No one ever claimed old school MMORPG's were perfect; the complaint is the features and focus of what made those games great has been completely abandoned by the modern MMO's.
May be those games just weren't that great .. and that is why their core designs were abandoned and changed.
You don't get to determine what is great and what is not. I know what was great to me, I know what features from old school MMO's I would love to see more of in modern ones. The arrogance of your crowd is astounding, seriously. Who do you people think you are? How about you tell me what movies you think are great so I can tell you why they are not great? That food you you think is great...nope....all in your head. Seriously, do you listen to yourself?
Honestly EQ was my first MMO ever. I have such strong nostalgic memories about it that nothing else measures up. I loved that game, and still think it was the most encompassing and immersive MMO that there ever was. That being said, I have to agree that the type of game EQ is and was has passed. Spending months at a time to gain one or two levels is not practical or fun any more. I do wish that MMOs these days would be more hardcore, but I think there has to be a fine middle ground. EQ staring at a book for long periods of time to regain mana wasn't fun for anyone. But having no consequences for dying also ruins a game. Hopefully something can recreate the culture and immersion of EQ while incorporating the new way we play MMOs.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
If you play on Ragefire where there are tons of trolls, multiboxers, jerks, griefers and elitists, and where Daybreak has broken everyrthing they can possibly break, you're going to have a bad experience. That is something unrelated to EQ.
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Hay this fits me.
Linkrealm rises like a phoenix
FTW
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
Its sounds more like a modern approach to a oldschool (yet also modernized) game.
It never stuck because it was never done right,it does not make the idea bad or wrong.FFXI is imo the ONLY game that did some justice to grouping and is why i never got into or stuck around in any of the other old school games.
I see far more wrong with the EQ2/Wow design than any of those grouping games.
How players play is NOT an indication of a bad design either,that would be an indication of shallow rpg players that want nothing but to race to the best boss drops.That is NOT RP gaming by any stretch and i said it back before Wow even came out,the majority of mmorpg players should not be in a rpg.
The whole premise of advancing the genre to a MMO was to remove the same path,linear game play that single player games offered,otherwise why bother with internet and other players?The idea was that a true RP'ing game would allow YOU to play YOUR own path and decide where ina game world you would do it.The problem is developers see the Wow design as just being cheap and easy to do so they stick with it.The Wow design is a linear path that does NOT allow you to RP,to play out YOUR own game,it is a paint by numbers or connect the dots or train on rails ,whatever analogy you want to toss at it.
Here is the real funny part.....
The OP made a statement/s about nobody wanting to chat or go slow or group,well how does a single player design help ANY of that?It doesn't it actually encourages exactly what the OP was complaining about.Simply put modern mmorpg's are the ANTI MMO and the anti RP and they cater to a gamer that doesn't know old school because a VERY high % of them never grew up grouping.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
I think that a big part of the oldschool MMO magic was the MMO part. To be online in a 3d world with lots of other ppl. This was still special back then (for me anyway). There was no 'been here, done this' attitude, so rushing through content was for the minority of people.
Nowadays, an online world is taken for granted. Everything now is massively online. So take that away and what is left ? Quite a grindy shallow rpg with extra repetition put in, to make it seem as if the game has a lot of content.
You can't get that back, it is nostalgia speaking for most of us.
So a new MMO now has to make up for this with an actual good game. It is just too bad that those new games don't come with a convincing virtual world.
Why "too bad" if they are "actual good games"? May be virtual worlds are not good for good games.
I self identify as a monkey.
Have to agree so many actual good games regardless if I might dislike them, seeing so many people enjoying those games.
Virtual Worlds is indeed a niche and simply not populair with the masses.
And while I do consider myself a old school gamer I never really could go back to games from then who are still online. I do want certain old school feature's but more in the sence of SWG then those from EQ but definitly in made with the most current tech. But as I made clear in many topics/reply's I also enjoy some of the current MMO's but different then I want to experiance a MMORPG.
I don't want all MMO or MMORPG to be geared to a specific type of gamer because I feel there is plenty of room in this genre to have all kinds of MMORPG's
If you are talking about playing a recent version...it is not the same EQ that started in 98'.
I don't see why a good MMO game can't come with a convincing virtual world. I think it just takes a lot of dev time to do in addition to creating a good game.
As for why ' too bad', well there are a lot of single player games that easily blow any MMO's gameplay out of the water. It is the virtual world that used to be one of the major attractions for me in a MMO. That and the massively multiplay part, was why I accepted the average game mechanics part.
That i agree .. except there is not plenty of money to fund all of them because MMORPGs are expensive. They are not like iOS games where you can do a good one with minimal investments.
You just answered your own question. A lot of dev time costs a lot of money. If they can get away with not, why bother? In fact, many companies are now getting away of not making MMORPGs at all.
Ragefire isn't like old school EQ at all, it has no death penalty, it has very prevalent multiboxing and classes are completely unbalanced.
Multiboxing has nothing to do with old school gaming. It only became prevalent in Everquest years after launch and SoE basically started to condone automation programs.
May be those games just weren't that great .. and that is why their core designs were abandoned and changed.
I am an old school UO/EQ player - and I lasted about 2 days on Ragefire.
It's not that old school gaming sucks, as your title suggests. It's exactly what you say in your post however. Ragefire is what happens when old school gaming is confronted by the modern mindset - and some modern technologies and innovations.
Sure, boxing was always a thing - but I'd never once seen a six boxer back in 1999-2001. I'd seen a couple of people keeping an AFK character parked behind them for heals/buffs/carries. That's not quite as brutal as the 6 mage ganking armies.
Because Everquest was a game that didn't have many boxers back in the day AND the grind was literally 2x-4x heftier (depending on your class/race combo), it was pointless to rush. And for all but the best players of certain classes, grouping was the fastest EXP anyway. Some classes had no choice but to group.
It did foster an incredible gaming community, the likes of which - you're right - we'll probably never see again.
Old School gaming was amazing... but it was the people who made it so. Unfortunately nowaday, the genre and player base have evolved into this solo-happy rush-orientated thing and the old school mindset which is what got so many of us into MMOs is just gone.
You don't get to determine what is great and what is not. I know what was great to me, I know what features from old school MMO's I would love to see more of in modern ones. The arrogance of your crowd is astounding, seriously. Who do you people think you are? How about you tell me what movies you think are great so I can tell you why they are not great? That food you you think is great...nope....all in your head. Seriously, do you listen to yourself?
I agree with this 1000%
Tried going back a few times.
Then some old private servers.
Closest ive seen yet is Wurm online. Even though the PVE was really lacking.
Vanguard Saga of Heroes had potential even though it wasn't a true skill based system but levels instead.
I often imagine what an Ultima Online reboot would look like if done right.
Would it be 3d like ESO or over the head cam like old school but with graphics ala Path of Exile engine.
I would kickstart the crap out of the ladder cause im an old school vet that prefers over the head cam
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
If you play on Ragefire where there are tons of trolls, multiboxers, jerks, griefers and elitists, and where Daybreak has broken everyrthing they can possibly break, you're going to have a bad experience. That is something unrelated to EQ.