Honestly EQ was my first MMO ever. I have such strong nostalgic memories about it that nothing else measures up. I loved that game, and still think it was the most encompassing and immersive MMO that there ever was. That being said, I have to agree that the type of game EQ is and was has passed. Spending months at a time to gain one or two levels is not practical or fun any more. I do wish that MMOs these days would be more hardcore, but I think there has to be a fine middle ground. EQ staring at a book for long periods of time to regain mana wasn't fun for anyone. But having no consequences for dying also ruins a game. Hopefully something can recreate the culture and immersion of EQ while incorporating the new way we play MMOs.
Old school games had depth, mechanics to keep you playing and finding new things. Games these days are simply catering to the medicated generation (I am assuming that is you based on your articulation), dumbed down so you dont feel any failure and get all huffy and quit.
Face it kids, old school games were made for men, while most new school games are made for little boys that have no attention span or determination to succeed.
Though I can't agree with your demeaning tone, and I certainly started playing MMOs back when I was just a boy (1999) -
I heard recently that the average attention span for a person in America is now less than that of a gold fish.
Something like 7 seconds.
A seven second attention span. Ridiculous!
No wonder MMO design has gone the way it has - the average player needs something to stimulate them every 5 seconds!
It's no surprise when they pump their kids full of Amphetamines and other drugs because they can't handle them being kids. "My kid won't sit still in school and talks all the time", yeah, because he is a kid, an no, he does not have ADHD.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Viper482 No one ever claimed old school MMORPG's were perfect; the complaint is the features and focus of what made those games great has been completely abandoned by the modern MMO's.
May be those games just weren't that great .. and that is why their core designs were abandoned and changed.
You don't get to determine what is great and what is not. I know what was great to me, I know what features from old school MMO's I would love to see more of in modern ones. The arrogance of your crowd is astounding, seriously. Who do you people think you are? How about you tell me what movies you think are great so I can tell you why they are not great? That food you you think is great...nope....all in your head. Seriously, do you listen to yourself?
Great is subjective .... but the market decides what is "great" for many ... and clearly those old core designs are not "great" for this market. Otherwise, the invisible hand will make it happen.
Originally posted by Viper482 No one ever claimed old school MMORPG's were perfect; the complaint is the features and focus of what made those games great has been completely abandoned by the modern MMO's.
May be those games just weren't that great .. and that is why their core designs were abandoned and changed.
You don't get to determine what is great and what is not. I know what was great to me, I know what features from old school MMO's I would love to see more of in modern ones. The arrogance of your crowd is astounding, seriously. Who do you people think you are? How about you tell me what movies you think are great so I can tell you why they are not great? That food you you think is great...nope....all in your head. Seriously, do you listen to yourself?
Great is subjective .... but the market decides what is "great" for many ... and clearly those old core designs are not "great" for this market. Otherwise, the invisible hand will make it happen.
The market creates as much as it responds to demand. It jumps on band wagons and since the suits took over it has nearly always gone for the cheap reliable buck.
The best modern MMO's we have out now did not do this. ESO, TSW and GW2 show you that quality in MMOs means bucking the cheap and cheerful design that is the norm.
Originally posted by Viper482 No one ever claimed old school MMORPG's were perfect; the complaint is the features and focus of what made those games great has been completely abandoned by the modern MMO's.
May be those games just weren't that great .. and that is why their core designs were abandoned and changed.
You don't get to determine what is great and what is not. I know what was great to me, I know what features from old school MMO's I would love to see more of in modern ones. The arrogance of your crowd is astounding, seriously. Who do you people think you are? How about you tell me what movies you think are great so I can tell you why they are not great? That food you you think is great...nope....all in your head. Seriously, do you listen to yourself?
Great is subjective .... but the market decides what is "great" for many ... and clearly those old core designs are not "great" for this market. Otherwise, the invisible hand will make it happen.
The market creates as much as it responds to demand. It jumps on band wagons and since the suits took over it has nearly always gone for the cheap reliable buck.
The best modern MMO's we have out now did not do this. ESO, TSW and GW2 show you that quality in MMOs means bucking the cheap and cheerful design that is the norm.
Exactly the last couple of years has been no different from any other year in the last 30 years, loads of average games come out, and only a few gems rise to the surface. Its funny how everything is 'soooo' much more worse now, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before.... i'm surprised the gaming industry has not imploded - oh wait, investment just keeps growing along with the player base The issue is that people who have grown out of games but cant accept that and blame everything else now have a forum to voice their accusations.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Viper482 No one ever claimed old school MMORPG's were perfect; the complaint is the features and focus of what made those games great has been completely abandoned by the modern MMO's.
May be those games just weren't that great .. and that is why their core designs were abandoned and changed.
You don't get to determine what is great and what is not. I know what was great to me, I know what features from old school MMO's I would love to see more of in modern ones. The arrogance of your crowd is astounding, seriously. Who do you people think you are? How about you tell me what movies you think are great so I can tell you why they are not great? That food you you think is great...nope....all in your head. Seriously, do you listen to yourself?
Great is subjective .... but the market decides what is "great" for many ... and clearly those old core designs are not "great" for this market. Otherwise, the invisible hand will make it happen.
The market creates as much as it responds to demand. It jumps on band wagons and since the suits took over it has nearly always gone for the cheap reliable buck.
The best modern MMO's we have out now did not do this. ESO, TSW and GW2 show you that quality in MMOs means bucking the cheap and cheerful design that is the norm.
If it is cheap and reliable, it has to be fun to many .. otherwise it cannot bring in business reliably. So if someone can make fun games for many on the cheap (i.e. efficient), what is the problem?
and if you think ESO, TSW and GW2 is not cheap .. then why are you saying devs are going for the cheap. They are not the exceptions. TOR, Tera, Rift .. all costs a pretty bundle to make.
Now you may say Heroes of the Storm is cheaper to make, but it has Blizz polish all over it.
I want more downtime brought back and I would like monsters and dungeons that are not auto beatable with a standard strategy. The difficulty bar is way too low in MMOs and the only "hard" task to complete is simply the grind. A grind is not "hard" at all, just time consuming.
I also really miss socialization mechanics designed into the game such as ACs Alliance/Vassal system or the dancer/musician of SWG.
I agree that lots of people don't enjoy hard gameplay mechanics or having to rely on other people. However, those make for a game worth playing for a long time. Current games just get shelved for long periods of time unless they string out content in which case the content locust swarm comes and goes. This is why we do not have worlds anymore....we have lobbies where no one else cares about your presence or not.
I want more downtime brought back and I would like monsters and dungeons that are not auto beatable with a standard strategy. The difficulty bar is way too low in MMOs and the only "hard" task to complete is simply the grind. A grind is not "hard" at all, just time consuming.
Downtime - you already have the option of downtime. Just stop playing and stare at the screen for 15 min, or just chat. You don't want to force downtime on others who find it tedious, right?
Difficulty bar - just play D3 ... with its difficulty slider and infinite dungeon progression, it is fast, convenient, and as challenging as you want it to be. Or may be MMOs can learn from that (some do have difficulty sliders). Or you can play e-sports. That has to be challenging, unless you are the top world champion.
A mmorpg like old school EQ will not be what people think it will be. Embrace twitch gaming, gaming where time management is viable etc. Its just the way of the future.
I think this statement is the most flawed.
People want ON DEMAND content, not 'quicker shorter bursts' of content.
That's why Netflix releases entire seasons now so you can watch the whole show at once and binge watch it, or you can watch it at your own pace.
To assume that your way of life is better or superior is in it's very nature flawed. That is why EVERY service is going this way, to content that is customized to the user.
So no, I refuse OP to adjust to how you think I should play. We all get to play how we like to.
Originally posted by nomatics856 After playing Ragefire EQ 1 progression server it made me realize this kind of gaming, is dead and dated now.For one, no one has the mind set of the past im sure a few gamers do but every one is rushing to server first, playing easy solo classes, hardly any one wants to group, when you do group no one is social, no one wants to talk, no one wants to build communities, no one wants to take it slow...
This what exactly happen to me with Asheron's call 2 also old school very depend on grouping. This game even have parties of 9/9.
And i tried realy tried but it's almost not posible anymore as you describe here what happen to me in AC2. AC2 is very old school it have no gyuidance no !-? above npc heads it have no instance it's all open to everyone. It have huge grind and very deep long crafting grind. I have manage to become lvl96 which is rather high lvl in only 1 year every god damn day trying to get fellowships(party called in AC2) but people barely manage doing even 1 hour a day i quit was not worth my time anymore i blame the so called AC2 fans most only want solo or anti social duoboxing up to 5 followers. AC2 was nice back around 2002-2005 but it all changed around END OF 2004:( I GAVE UP ON MMORPG'S because of this sadly:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
i blame the so called AC2 fans most only want solo or anti social duoboxing up to 5 followers.
AC2 was nice back around 2002-2005 but it all changed around END OF 2004:( I GAVE UP ON MMORPG'S because of this sadly:(
wait .. you *blame* other people who enjoy their games the way they like?
Why is anyone obligated to make your game fun? Is there a reason why players should not use entertainment as they see fit?
You falsely assume other players need to care about your fun, as opposed to just theirs.
Gaming is not survival of the fittest Nari, it is not all about me and two fingers up to the rest of you. Even chimpanzees are social animals, and as we are human we can do better than that. Being occasionally sociable is not beyond anyone, even you.
i blame the so called AC2 fans most only want solo or anti social duoboxing up to 5 followers.
AC2 was nice back around 2002-2005 but it all changed around END OF 2004:( I GAVE UP ON MMORPG'S because of this sadly:(
wait .. you *blame* other people who enjoy their games the way they like?
Why is anyone obligated to make your game fun? Is there a reason why players should not use entertainment as they see fit?
You falsely assume other players need to care about your fun, as opposed to just theirs.
Gaming is not survival of the fittest Nari, it is not all about me and two fingers up to the rest of you. Even chimpanzees are social animals, and as we are human we can do better than that. Being occasionally sociable is not beyond anyone, even you.
Sure .. but am I obligated to be social, in using an entertainment product? Being occasionally social, on my terms, is quite different than being expected to do so .... in an activity that has no purpose but to entertain.
And clearly people can be as anti-social as they deem fit on the internet. Otherwise, MOBA "communities" would not be so toxic.
Any expectation, or entitlement thinking of how other *should* behave is just silly.
i blame the so called AC2 fans most only want solo or anti social duoboxing up to 5 followers.
AC2 was nice back around 2002-2005 but it all changed around END OF 2004:( I GAVE UP ON MMORPG'S because of this sadly:(
wait .. you *blame* other people who enjoy their games the way they like?
Why is anyone obligated to make your game fun? Is there a reason why players should not use entertainment as they see fit?
You falsely assume other players need to care about your fun, as opposed to just theirs.
Gaming is not survival of the fittest Nari, it is not all about me and two fingers up to the rest of you. Even chimpanzees are social animals, and as we are human we can do better than that. Being occasionally sociable is not beyond anyone, even you.
Sure .. but am I obligated to be social, in using an entertainment product? Being occasionally social, on my terms, is quite different than being expected to do so .... in an activity that has no purpose but to entertain.
And clearly people can be as anti-social as they deem fit on the internet. Otherwise, MOBA "communities" would not be so toxic.
Any expectation, or entitlement thinking of how other *should* behave is just silly.
You are quite social on here, most people who do so in a game swap a couple of texts, you don't have to become the best buddy of everyone you meet.
One thing I will say about Marvel Heroes even though I thought it was a grind fest. The community was very helpful and were quite happy to chat about comics while we waited for mates to come online. Never played a MOBA apart from that, I would suggest the nature of those games can push the community in a bad direction.
Re bring 'obliged' to be social, Being obliged has got nothing to do with the matter, when a game is designed with people who want to form communities (and note community does not nessassarily mean must find friends) then you should be 'considerate' to the people you play alongside otherwise you are being anti social and selfish. being incapable of empathising with fellow members of the community and not realising the cumulative impact your attitude has to the community does not make it right.
When you join a party or a team game in real life you don't walk around and ignore people, otherwise why would you attend the party, why not just have a solo party at home?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by nomatics856 I dont post here cause i dont have the need to...until i finished playing old school EQ something needed to be said
Well, to be honest I agree that maybe EQ original is kind of meh now. Since when does EQ1 represent all of "Old School" gaming. Even back then during the time EQ was released i thought it was kind of a piece of crap game personally and still preferred UO,AO,Asherons, way over EQ. So I mean thats great that you found out that you didn't like EQ1 but i think thats hardly enough information to say all "old school" gaming sucks. Now if you think old school UO and everything else sucks too then that's your prerogative but then again i think TESO,GW2,Tera,Aion,AA,BD all suck too.
Comments
This guy gets it.It's no surprise when they pump their kids full of Amphetamines and other drugs because they can't handle them being kids. "My kid won't sit still in school and talks all the time", yeah, because he is a kid, an no, he does not have ADHD.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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As pointless as you posting this. No one forced you to read this thread, or did they?
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Great is subjective .... but the market decides what is "great" for many ... and clearly those old core designs are not "great" for this market. Otherwise, the invisible hand will make it happen.
The market creates as much as it responds to demand. It jumps on band wagons and since the suits took over it has nearly always gone for the cheap reliable buck.
The best modern MMO's we have out now did not do this. ESO, TSW and GW2 show you that quality in MMOs means bucking the cheap and cheerful design that is the norm.
Exactly the last couple of years has been no different from any other year in the last 30 years, loads of average games come out, and only a few gems rise to the surface. Its funny how everything is 'soooo' much more worse now, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before.... i'm surprised the gaming industry has not imploded - oh wait, investment just keeps growing along with the player base
The issue is that people who have grown out of games but cant accept that and blame everything else now have a forum to voice their accusations.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
If it is cheap and reliable, it has to be fun to many .. otherwise it cannot bring in business reliably. So if someone can make fun games for many on the cheap (i.e. efficient), what is the problem?
and if you think ESO, TSW and GW2 is not cheap .. then why are you saying devs are going for the cheap. They are not the exceptions. TOR, Tera, Rift .. all costs a pretty bundle to make.
Now you may say Heroes of the Storm is cheaper to make, but it has Blizz polish all over it.
I want more downtime brought back and I would like monsters and dungeons that are not auto beatable with a standard strategy. The difficulty bar is way too low in MMOs and the only "hard" task to complete is simply the grind. A grind is not "hard" at all, just time consuming.
I also really miss socialization mechanics designed into the game such as ACs Alliance/Vassal system or the dancer/musician of SWG.
I agree that lots of people don't enjoy hard gameplay mechanics or having to rely on other people. However, those make for a game worth playing for a long time. Current games just get shelved for long periods of time unless they string out content in which case the content locust swarm comes and goes. This is why we do not have worlds anymore....we have lobbies where no one else cares about your presence or not.
Downtime - you already have the option of downtime. Just stop playing and stare at the screen for 15 min, or just chat. You don't want to force downtime on others who find it tedious, right?
Difficulty bar - just play D3 ... with its difficulty slider and infinite dungeon progression, it is fast, convenient, and as challenging as you want it to be. Or may be MMOs can learn from that (some do have difficulty sliders). Or you can play e-sports. That has to be challenging, unless you are the top world champion.
I think this statement is the most flawed.
People want ON DEMAND content, not 'quicker shorter bursts' of content.
That's why Netflix releases entire seasons now so you can watch the whole show at once and binge watch it, or you can watch it at your own pace.
To assume that your way of life is better or superior is in it's very nature flawed. That is why EVERY service is going this way, to content that is customized to the user.
So no, I refuse OP to adjust to how you think I should play. We all get to play how we like to.
This what exactly happen to me with Asheron's call 2 also old school very depend on grouping. This game even have parties of 9/9.
And i tried realy tried but it's almost not posible anymore as you describe here what happen to me in AC2.
AC2 is very old school it have no gyuidance no !-? above npc heads it have no instance it's all open to everyone. It have huge grind and very deep long crafting grind.
I have manage to become lvl96 which is rather high lvl in only 1 year every god damn day trying to get fellowships(party called in AC2) but people barely manage doing even 1 hour a day i quit was not worth my time anymore i blame the so called AC2 fans most only want solo or anti social duoboxing up to 5 followers.
AC2 was nice back around 2002-2005 but it all changed around END OF 2004:(
I GAVE UP ON MMORPG'S because of this sadly:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
wait .. you *blame* other people who enjoy their games the way they like?
Why is anyone obligated to make your game fun? Is there a reason why players should not use entertainment as they see fit?
You falsely assume other players need to care about your fun, as opposed to just theirs.
Gaming is not survival of the fittest Nari, it is not all about me and two fingers up to the rest of you. Even chimpanzees are social animals, and as we are human we can do better than that. Being occasionally sociable is not beyond anyone, even you.
Sure .. but am I obligated to be social, in using an entertainment product? Being occasionally social, on my terms, is quite different than being expected to do so .... in an activity that has no purpose but to entertain.
And clearly people can be as anti-social as they deem fit on the internet. Otherwise, MOBA "communities" would not be so toxic.
Any expectation, or entitlement thinking of how other *should* behave is just silly.
You are quite social on here, most people who do so in a game swap a couple of texts, you don't have to become the best buddy of everyone you meet.
One thing I will say about Marvel Heroes even though I thought it was a grind fest. The community was very helpful and were quite happy to chat about comics while we waited for mates to come online. Never played a MOBA apart from that, I would suggest the nature of those games can push the community in a bad direction.
When you join a party or a team game in real life you don't walk around and ignore people, otherwise why would you attend the party, why not just have a solo party at home?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Well, to be honest I agree that maybe EQ original is kind of meh now. Since when does EQ1 represent all of "Old School" gaming. Even back then during the time EQ was released i thought it was kind of a piece of crap game personally and still preferred UO,AO,Asherons, way over EQ. So I mean thats great that you found out that you didn't like EQ1 but i think thats hardly enough information to say all "old school" gaming sucks. Now if you think old school UO and everything else sucks too then that's your prerogative but then again i think TESO,GW2,Tera,Aion,AA,BD all suck too.