Originally posted by DMKano If you can provide solid market research data showing that there is enough interest from players to justify the investment, it would be made.The thing is - western theme anything is not very popular at this time - no western movies are being made, there are no popular western themed anything right now. Its an unpopular theme at this time.
Red Dead Redemption sold 12 million copies... There is a large enough interest in the wild west genre to make a profit.
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Originally posted by DMKano If you can provide solid market research data showing that there is enough interest from players to justify the investment, it would be made.
The thing is - western theme anything is not very popular at this time - no western movies are being made, there are no popular western themed anything right now. Its an unpopular theme at this time.
Red Dead Redemption sold 12 million copies... There is a large enough interest in the wild west genre to make a profit.
right ... wow has millions and millions of subs .... we should build more wow clones by your logic.
A historic western MMO would basically be a manual labor/agrarian survival sim. There wasn't much violence and it wasn't "cowboys vs indians" which is not only a gigantic pile of myth, but cowboys weren't gunslingers, they were ranchers who herded cattle and their jobs were long and boring. The biggest dangers people faced during that time was disease and famine.
Regardless, I don't think video games are in the habit of historical accuracies, so I'm not really worried about it. But the real take away from this thread is that some people don't grasp that the burden of proof is on the claim. You make a claim, it's your job to support it, not someone else's job to refute it.
And no, you can't use a single data point (aka Red Dead Redemption sales) as proof, that's a fallacy of incomplete evidence. All we know from this thread is that someone thinks saying "a lot" is a fact and we still have no idea of whether or not a Wild West MMO is in demand.
How is saying "a lot" not a fact. A lot can be anything from five people to an infinite amount of people. It simply means that there are, in fact, many people who are interested. No figures are given to make it not a fact. Like I said, there are "a lot" of people expressing interest on this thread alone, not to mention many more on the internet, to prove that "fact."
(red) No we don't. Nor will we ever know if we don't try.
Forgot I even posted in this thread.
"A lot" isn't a fact because it doesn't mean anything without being defined with some sort of quantitative measurement. 5 people isn't "a lot" unless you're talking about something like a tiny restroom that has 2 urinals. Then you could say, "dang there were a lot of people in there."
Then you try to support "a lot" having meaning by saying, "many" which is once again a useless term without being quantified. "Many," just like "a lot" needs context. If many are interested, what is your definition of many? There are not "a lot" of people expressing interest in this thread. This thread is only 9 pages long with each page containing maybe 10 posts. Even if we pretended that each post was made by a unique poster and there were all in 100% agreement that a Wild West MMO is desired, you'd still only have 90 people. That's no where near "a lot" or "many" in terms of an MMO population. And no, you can't point to the internet as a nebulous resource containing an unknown number of supporters for an idea.
We're talking about MMO's. While I don't think there is a consensus regarding how many people an MMO must have to be considered a minimum viable product, I'd personally put the number at 250k before claiming a game has sufficient support. And that's for a bare minimum product (like Pathfinder Online), not AAA quality (like Red Dead Redemption).
so all we need now is a respectable dev team with lots of foundings to take this into action. we are even begging them to
take our money lol.
No. What you need is a compelling business case that have numbers and proofs so people are willing to invest millions.
A couple of random people on a forum saying "we are even begging them to take our money" does not count as such.
Heck, I will say that if you make a Diablo-ish wild west game, i will give you $1000, do you believe me?
... and you'll be damned if you're even going to allow for those "couple" of random people to wish for it huh?
You go ... shut 'em down at all cost! How dare they even try and ask for it on your gaming forum!
/laughs!
Wait... how did you make the leap from "a compelling business case is needed before a studio spends millions on the project" to "shutting you down" for daring to ask for this?
You're way too defensive about this, and you've reached the point of irrational.
Nah .. those without an agenda know exactly how I reached it. The OP is just saying what he would like to see in an MMORPG. We all already know that a Wild West MMORPG is not common. A couple of random people wishing for special features in what we all already know to be an "out of the norm" "MMORPG" don't need to be constantly reminded about how "unusual" the idea is. Sometimes its just fun to bounce around ideas.
I have to agree, someone asked for something, people decided he needed poo spread all over his thread.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A historic western MMO would basically be a manual labor/agrarian survival sim. There wasn't much violence and it wasn't "cowboys vs indians" which is not only a gigantic pile of myth, but cowboys weren't gunslingers, they were ranchers who herded cattle and their jobs were long and boring. The biggest dangers people faced during that time was disease and famine.
Regardless, I don't think video games are in the habit of historical accuracies, so I'm not really worried about it. But the real take away from this thread is that some people don't grasp that the burden of proof is on the claim. You make a claim, it's your job to support it, not someone else's job to refute it.
And no, you can't use a single data point (aka Red Dead Redemption sales) as proof, that's a fallacy of incomplete evidence. All we know from this thread is that someone thinks saying "a lot" is a fact and we still have no idea of whether or not a Wild West MMO is in demand.
How is saying "a lot" not a fact. A lot can be anything from five people to an infinite amount of people. It simply means that there are, in fact, many people who are interested. No figures are given to make it not a fact. Like I said, there are "a lot" of people expressing interest on this thread alone, not to mention many more on the internet, to prove that "fact."
(red) No we don't. Nor will we ever know if we don't try.
Forgot I even posted in this thread.
"A lot" isn't a fact because it doesn't mean anything without being defined with some sort of quantitative measurement. 5 people isn't "a lot" unless you're talking about something like a tiny restroom that has 2 urinals. Then you could say, "dang there were a lot of people in there."
Then you try to support "a lot" having meaning by saying, "many" which is once again a useless term without being quantified. "Many," just like "a lot" needs context. If many are interested, what is your definition of many? There are not "a lot" of people expressing interest in this thread. This thread is only 9 pages long with each page containing maybe 10 posts. Even if we pretended that each post was made by a unique poster and there were all in 100% agreement that a Wild West MMO is desired, you'd still only have 90 people. That's no where near "a lot" or "many" in terms of an MMO population. And no, you can't point to the internet as a nebulous resource containing an unknown number of supporters for an idea.
We're talking about MMO's. While I don't think there is a consensus regarding how many people an MMO must have to be considered a minimum viable product, I'd personally put the number at 250k before claiming a game has sufficient support. And that's for a bare minimum product (like Pathfinder Online), not AAA quality (like Red Dead Redemption).
How do we respond to something like this? Is it really worth debating a point with someone claiming that "90" is not a lot? I mean, no amount of gibberish or double talk can justify that claim.
There are "a lot" of people in this thread alone that have expressed an interest in a Wild West MMORPG. So if I were to say there are "a lot" of people in this thread expressing an interest in an MMORPG, how is that not a fact? What exactly is it that is not factual about my saying that I know for a fact there are "a lot" of people in this thread, and on the internet, that have expressed interest in a Wild West MMORPG. "A lot" does not require a number to be factual. It is a general term meaning "many." The internet is available for all to access. Need proof? Google it yourself.
I know for a fact there is "a lot" of information on the internet. Including a website called "Dictionary.com" that one can go to and get word or term definitions. A one second search to that website brings up this definition of the term "a lot" ....
a lot
Very many, a large number; also very much. For example, a lot of people think the economy is declining, or sad movies always made her cry a lot. It is sometimes put as a whole lot for greater emphasis, as in I learned a whole lot in class. It may also emphasize a comparative indication of amount, as in we need a whole lot more pizza to feed everyone, or Mary had a lot less nerve than I expected.
In other words, it may have been a good idea to research the meaning of "a lot" on the internet before posting like one knows "a lot" about it. Doing so may even make one feel "a lot" better about their knowledge regarding "a lot" of things, including the meaning of the term "a lot." It may even prevent one from getting into "a lot" of trouble.
You know ... I read that post three times. Not only because I had a difficult time understand it, but because I also found it fascinating. Why do people set themselves up like this? Is it really all about being right, even if it is against all odds. Its amazing to me.
The idea definitely has several significant obstacles.
The aesthetic is not suited to MMO gameplay, because western stuff is always about smaller scale towns and bandit lairs. It's not about large numbers of people.
The gameplay is fairly unknown, and you wouldn't want to experiment on gameplay in a MMO, you'd want to establish a clear direction in a non-MMO. Experimentation is better suited to cheaper genres, not MMOs.
Neither magic nor nanites exist to magically hand-wave away the gameplay effects used by typical MMORPG. Obviously there are many games which aren't fantasy or sci-fi and manages to have fun gameplay, but this simply illustrates the need for experimentation.
Westerns have limited appeal outside the US.
None are impossible, but personally I'd definitely make a non-MMO western before a MMO one. An MMO simply wouldn't capture what makes westerns westerns.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The idea definitely has several significant obstacles.
The aesthetic is not suited to MMO gameplay, because western stuff is always about smaller scale towns and bandit lairs. It's not about large numbers of people.
The gameplay is fairly unknown, and you wouldn't want to experiment on gameplay in a MMO, you'd want to establish a clear direction in a non-MMO. Experimentation is better suited to cheaper genres, not MMOs.
Neither magic nor nanites exist to magically hand-wave away the gameplay effects used by typical MMORPG. Obviously there are many games which aren't fantasy or sci-fi and manages to have fun gameplay, but this simply illustrates the need for experimentation.
Westerns have limited appeal outside the US.
None are impossible, but personally I'd definitely make a non-MMO western before a MMO one. An MMO simply wouldn't capture what makes westerns westerns.
europe loves westerns. trust me
asia maybe not but they have their games with halfnaked women and 2 meter long swords so who cares.
it could be larger towns. if it was in a fantasy steampunk setting. then anything is possible.
aslong as they dont make it cartoony and "fun cool" like some new games.
rant over.
basicly. i think everyone has a place in their hearts for wild west.
Two thoughts and I am sure this has already been mentioned but I just don't have time to go though the entire thread.
First, the old west and the industrialization of Victorian England happened at the same time so an old west theme could easily be meshed with a Victorian style steam punk theme the broaden the appeal. Remember that the old west was simply the frontier culture of the time period.
Edit: Come to think of it, this time period was also the end of the Shogun era in Japan. That adds some interesting possiblities.
Second, does the setting necessarily have to be our historic old west? Or even our old west with some Jules Vern steam punk fantasy added? What if a fantasy high magic world with elves and goblins simply progressed to the point of industrial steampunk tech. What would that world look like? I think it could be pretty interesting.
A Wild West MMO could be very cool ... as long as it's free, open, and, harsh like the Old West really was. This means no single player linear game disguised as an MMO, but a truly open world, and probably PVP with consequences. I think maybe permadeath if you are captured/tried/hanged for going over the deep end in PVP, would just about keep things in balance.
This will never been made.
In fact, i would much prefer something like a Call of Juarez Gunslinger with a witty scripted story and some shooting action.
Unless you add in fantasy or steampunk sci-fi elements, i don't see how combat in a western game can go beyond just shooting and that is not very suitable for a RPG. Even Borderlands have to add in non-gun skills & sci-fi elements to make the combat interesting.
Two thoughts and I am sure this has already been mentioned but I just don't have time to go though the entire thread.
First, the old west and the industrialization of Victorian England happened at the same time so an old west theme could easily be meshed with a Victorian style steam punk theme the broaden the appeal. Remember that the old west was simply the frontier culture of the time period.
Edit: Come to think of it, this time period was also the end of the Shogun era in Japan. That adds some interesting possiblities.
Second, does the setting necessarily have to be our historic old west? Or even our old west with some Jules Vern steam punk fantasy added? What if a fantasy high magic world with elves and goblins simply progressed to the point of industrial steampunk tech. What would that world look like? I think it could be pretty interesting.
A lot of those make for some pretty cool environments to work with. The place where they diverge from "Old West" or "Wild West" is that there are no specific factions central to them. While there are races, clans, etc, they can all be placed in a neutral context, whereas the American West has a very distinct aspect that most MMOs avoid - Good and Evil. See, while I love America and all, there's that whole matter of what we did to settle the country. Do we leave Native Americans out of the game? If they are put in, do we go with revisionist history? A developer would have to deal with endless PR fires no matter what direction they go with it.
BANG! Howdy and Dino Storm work (somewhat) because they avoid any kind of context or gameplay that could even touch on the abominations of the time. So, I think you've got something there with the steampunk and eastern themes,but that's because of how different they are from the Cowboys and "Indians" thing.
That said, I do think that an Oregon Trail MMO with resets like PotBS or ATITD has a chance of actually working.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Two thoughts and I am sure this has already been mentioned but I just don't have time to go though the entire thread.
First, the old west and the industrialization of Victorian England happened at the same time so an old west theme could easily be meshed with a Victorian style steam punk theme the broaden the appeal. Remember that the old west was simply the frontier culture of the time period.
Edit: Come to think of it, this time period was also the end of the Shogun era in Japan. That adds some interesting possiblities.
Second, does the setting necessarily have to be our historic old west? Or even our old west with some Jules Vern steam punk fantasy added? What if a fantasy high magic world with elves and goblins simply progressed to the point of industrial steampunk tech. What would that world look like? I think it could be pretty interesting.
Excellent post. The type of "can do," "out-of-the-box," thinking needed for this type of project.
Excellent post. The type of "can do," "out-of-the-box," thinking needed for this type of project.
Well, actually this type of project does not need any thinking .. there is already an abundance of it .. if you give some gamer two hours to chat.
What is really need, if we are talking about something real, is investment (real money, not some amateur doing a KS), know-how and actual commitment to do something.
Excellent post. The type of "can do," "out-of-the-box," thinking needed for this type of project.
Well, actually this type of project does not need any thinking .. there is already an abundance of it .. if you give some gamer two hours to chat.
What is really need, if we are talking about something real, is investment (real money, not some amateur doing a KS), know-how and actual commitment to do something.
This type of project would require a lot of THINKING to make it work. You have to start there, not the other way around. Don't be such a buzzkill and douse the flames of creative thinking. People here are talking about the possibilites of a Wild West MMO. I hardly think anyone here is actually trying to build one. There is a very distinct difference there. Fantasizing & Conceptualizing does not equal creating, so why are you talking about investors and "real" money?
Get off your high horse before you fall down and sprain your ankle.
Back on topic: Combining the Wild West and the Victorian era together with some fantasy and occultism would in my mind make for a cool theme. I don't believe in a historic version of the wild west with cowboys vs indians as we've seen portrayed in so many motion pictures. The limitations on gameplay would be devastating.
Excellent post. The type of "can do," "out-of-the-box," thinking needed for this type of project.
Well, actually this type of project does not need any thinking .. there is already an abundance of it .. if you give some gamer two hours to chat.
What is really need, if we are talking about something real, is investment (real money, not some amateur doing a KS), know-how and actual commitment to do something.
This type of project would require a lot of THINKING to make it work. You have to start there, not the other way around. Don't be such a buzzkill and douse the flames of creative thinking. People here are talking about the possibilites of a Wild West MMO. I hardly think anyone here is actually trying to build one. There is a very distinct difference there. Fantasizing & Conceptualizing does not equal creating, so why are you talking about investors and "real" money?
Get off your high horse before you fall down and sprain your ankle.
Back on topic: Combining the Wild West and the Victorian era together with some fantasy and occultism would in my mind make for a cool theme. I don't believe in a historic version of the wild west with cowboys vs indians as we've seen portrayed in so many motion pictures. The limitations on gameplay would be devastating.
nah ... this place is full of thinking ... and thinking will end up with absolutely nothing if you don't have investors and people who actually can produce software.
And yes, people on this topic is only talking about the possibility of building one ... none has a clue to actually how to make a huge project happen (or if they do, they are not doing it). So we are just chit-chat here for the sake of chit-chat. If so, it is fair game to point out that nothing real is happening.
Neither magic nor nanites exist to magically hand-wave away the gameplay effects used by typical MMORPG. Obviously there are many games which aren't fantasy or sci-fi and manages to have fun gameplay, but this simply illustrates the need for experimentation.
Magic can be part of a Western themed world. See the French/Belgian comic series "Blueberry".
Westerns have limited appeal outside the US.
That's why so many westerns where filmed by Italians, notably Sergio Leone... and why "BlueBerry", but also "Lucky Luke" were made by Europeans... along with less known series like "Undertaker", "Tex", "Bouncer", "Durango", etc...
Trust me, good westerns are always welcome this side of the ocean.
Er, sure, and nanites could be part of a western themed world too, but in either case it isnt' really a western anymore is it? (Wildstar is literally western-sci-fi)
And yes, Italy and Japan factor in to the "limited appeal" I mentioned. It's still limited.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
A bunch of reasons I would never make this game. The most obvious is just the politics and SJW stuff that would happen. You would have a hard time making a serious game and marketing it because all of the coverage you would be getting would be the SJW. Every interview would be about ´do you hate indians, are you a racist´
That could all be avoided just by not having indians or mexicans as the bad guys..
Another problem would just be a splintered fanbase. In this thread we have already heard people say they want a steam-punk wildwest, a fantasy (wildstar) wildwest... maybe something like Firefly... As soon as you decide on one, you probably lost most of the people from the other groups.
Personally, I just would have a problem with character advancement, which is one of the real problems with MMORPGs.. character always have to learn new skills and abilities and basically become more powerful. You start out with a shotgun and a 6-shooter... and a year later? An expansion later?
The setting would be cool..... gold rush.. little house on the prairie...saloons.... but I think character advancement would be a pain for anything outside a single player game.
A bunch of reasons I would never make this game. The most obvious is just the politics and SJW stuff that would happen. You would have a hard time making a serious game and marketing it because all of the coverage you would be getting would be the SJW. Every interview would be about ´do you hate indians, are you a racist´
That could all be avoided just by not having indians or mexicans as the bad guys..
Another problem would just be a splintered fanbase. In this thread we have already heard people say they want a steam-punk wildwest, a fantasy (wildstar) wildwest... maybe something like Firefly... As soon as you decide on one, you probably lost most of the people from the other groups.
Personally, I just would have a problem with character advancement, which is one of the real problems with MMORPGs.. character always have to learn new skills and abilities and basically become more powerful. You start out with a shotgun and a 6-shooter... and a year later? An expansion later?
The setting would be cool..... gold rush.. little house on the prairie...saloons.... but I think character advancement would be a pain for anything outside a single player game.
I think a more 'firefly' ish game, involving 'cowboys in space' is a more doable thing, personal preference though and it neatly avoids all the controversial racism issues.
As for character advancement, well, years ago... there was this game called Traveller, probably most notorious as being the first game to actually have your character die in the creation phase, causing you to redo the whole thing, nasty, but it had some pretty good ideas, and something along those lines in terms of skills etc, might not be a bad idea.
Skills gained during the course of gameplay should be few and far between, and not obtained without commensurate effort, not to mention, having a level less game is something i particularly would like to see
A bunch of reasons I would never make this game. The most obvious is just the politics and SJW stuff that would happen. You would have a hard time making a serious game and marketing it because all of the coverage you would be getting would be the SJW. Every interview would be about ´do you hate indians, are you a racist´
That could all be avoided just by not having indians or mexicans as the bad guys..
Another problem would just be a splintered fanbase. In this thread we have already heard people say they want a steam-punk wildwest, a fantasy (wildstar) wildwest... maybe something like Firefly... As soon as you decide on one, you probably lost most of the people from the other groups.
Personally, I just would have a problem with character advancement, which is one of the real problems with MMORPGs.. character always have to learn new skills and abilities and basically become more powerful. You start out with a shotgun and a 6-shooter... and a year later? An expansion later?
The setting would be cool..... gold rush.. little house on the prairie...saloons.... but I think character advancement would be a pain for anything outside a single player game.
The issues that you outline as problems are no different than they would be for any new MMORPG that is not of the common elve/orc/human/fantasy variety, and certainly nothing that exercising a little thought would not take care of. Character advancement would be no different than character advancements in current MMORPGs. Cooler and more colorful costumes and weapons with stat improvements at higher levels. Plenty of weapon research has already been done in this area in current FPS games making this a no brainer. It seems people who are against this concept are simply making excuses about why it shouldn't as opposed to thinking outside of the box and offering ideas as to why it could. Its a classic looking at the glass as half empty as opposed to half full defeatist mentality.
Post Apocalypse, wild west. Mutated humanity becomes the bad guy, no need to even address that sore. It would allow for a tech option at the discretion of development. Starting with horses and old guns because all the advanced stuff is lost. I'm not sure how popular it would be or how much longevity it would have. Shooting each other in the face is going to get old quicker than we want to admit. It is a theme option, it's just a case of content to fill it.
To those saying westerns are not popular right now....true only because good westerns are not being made. The last really good western that I can remember is Forgiven w/ Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman. The last really good video western was Red Dead Redemation. Both are what nearly 10 years old now. There have also been some very good westerns that were made for TV....Lonesome Dove, Monty Walsh and others. The problem isn't lack of popularity but rather lack of willingness to make something that doesn't require a green screen and special effects.
Originally posted by free2play Post Apocalypse, wild west. Mutated humanity becomes the bad guy, no need to even address that sore. It would allow for a tech option at the discretion of development. Starting with horses and old guns because all the advanced stuff is lost. I'm not sure how popular it would be or how much longevity it would have. Shooting each other in the face is going to get old quicker than we want to admit. It is a theme option, it's just a case of content to fill it.
Again, all that is required is a little thought and imagination. I am not even putting a lot of thought into this project and I can effectively counter your perceived problem by adding magic in the form of native witch doctors. Or melee characters in the form of bruising cowboy brawlers. And then we have archers both native and cavalry types. Weapon specialists a la GW2 engineer types. Bomb technicians/Explosives experts, witch doctors/medical techs as healers. I can go on and on. The possibilities are endless. This is a classic thread highlighting the disparities between optimistic thinkers and pessimistic thinkers. Optimistic thinkers bounce around ideas that seek to find solutions, pessimistic thinkers bounce around ideas to pose barriers to potential solutions. Having a little imagination and being able to think outside the box goes a long way as well.
Comments
Red Dead Redemption sold 12 million copies...
There is a large enough interest in the wild west genre to make a profit.
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right ... wow has millions and millions of subs .... we should build more wow clones by your logic.
That could be awesome, especially with first-person shooter combat instead of auto-target combat!
I was really interested in Red Dead Redemption when it was released in 2010 but I guess they never converted it to PC.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
Forgot I even posted in this thread.
"A lot" isn't a fact because it doesn't mean anything without being defined with some sort of quantitative measurement. 5 people isn't "a lot" unless you're talking about something like a tiny restroom that has 2 urinals. Then you could say, "dang there were a lot of people in there."
Then you try to support "a lot" having meaning by saying, "many" which is once again a useless term without being quantified. "Many," just like "a lot" needs context. If many are interested, what is your definition of many? There are not "a lot" of people expressing interest in this thread. This thread is only 9 pages long with each page containing maybe 10 posts. Even if we pretended that each post was made by a unique poster and there were all in 100% agreement that a Wild West MMO is desired, you'd still only have 90 people. That's no where near "a lot" or "many" in terms of an MMO population. And no, you can't point to the internet as a nebulous resource containing an unknown number of supporters for an idea.
We're talking about MMO's. While I don't think there is a consensus regarding how many people an MMO must have to be considered a minimum viable product, I'd personally put the number at 250k before claiming a game has sufficient support. And that's for a bare minimum product (like Pathfinder Online), not AAA quality (like Red Dead Redemption).
I have to agree, someone asked for something, people decided he needed poo spread all over his thread.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hmmm...........
Oh yes a Wild Arms MMO would be wonderful. Its a little more Western/SteamPunk/Fantasy but still..... I like the idea on paper.
How do we respond to something like this? Is it really worth debating a point with someone claiming that "90" is not a lot? I mean, no amount of gibberish or double talk can justify that claim.
There are "a lot" of people in this thread alone that have expressed an interest in a Wild West MMORPG. So if I were to say there are "a lot" of people in this thread expressing an interest in an MMORPG, how is that not a fact? What exactly is it that is not factual about my saying that I know for a fact there are "a lot" of people in this thread, and on the internet, that have expressed interest in a Wild West MMORPG. "A lot" does not require a number to be factual. It is a general term meaning "many." The internet is available for all to access. Need proof? Google it yourself.
I know for a fact there is "a lot" of information on the internet. Including a website called "Dictionary.com" that one can go to and get word or term definitions. A one second search to that website brings up this definition of the term "a lot" ....
a lot
In other words, it may have been a good idea to research the meaning of "a lot" on the internet before posting like one knows "a lot" about it. Doing so may even make one feel "a lot" better about their knowledge regarding "a lot" of things, including the meaning of the term "a lot." It may even prevent one from getting into "a lot" of trouble.
You know ... I read that post three times. Not only because I had a difficult time understand it, but because I also found it fascinating. Why do people set themselves up like this? Is it really all about being right, even if it is against all odds. Its amazing to me.
The idea definitely has several significant obstacles.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If you were to make it sci-fi wild west(i.e. space cowboys) you'd probably get more interest
.
europe loves westerns. trust me
asia maybe not but they have their games with halfnaked women and 2 meter long swords so who cares.
it could be larger towns. if it was in a fantasy steampunk setting. then anything is possible.
aslong as they dont make it cartoony and "fun cool" like some new games.
rant over.
basicly. i think everyone has a place in their hearts for wild west.
Two thoughts and I am sure this has already been mentioned but I just don't have time to go though the entire thread.
First, the old west and the industrialization of Victorian England happened at the same time so an old west theme could easily be meshed with a Victorian style steam punk theme the broaden the appeal. Remember that the old west was simply the frontier culture of the time period.
Edit: Come to think of it, this time period was also the end of the Shogun era in Japan. That adds some interesting possiblities.
Second, does the setting necessarily have to be our historic old west? Or even our old west with some Jules Vern steam punk fantasy added? What if a fantasy high magic world with elves and goblins simply progressed to the point of industrial steampunk tech. What would that world look like? I think it could be pretty interesting.
All die, so die well.
This will never been made.
In fact, i would much prefer something like a Call of Juarez Gunslinger with a witty scripted story and some shooting action.
Unless you add in fantasy or steampunk sci-fi elements, i don't see how combat in a western game can go beyond just shooting and that is not very suitable for a RPG. Even Borderlands have to add in non-gun skills & sci-fi elements to make the combat interesting.
A lot of those make for some pretty cool environments to work with. The place where they diverge from "Old West" or "Wild West" is that there are no specific factions central to them. While there are races, clans, etc, they can all be placed in a neutral context, whereas the American West has a very distinct aspect that most MMOs avoid - Good and Evil. See, while I love America and all, there's that whole matter of what we did to settle the country. Do we leave Native Americans out of the game? If they are put in, do we go with revisionist history? A developer would have to deal with endless PR fires no matter what direction they go with it.
BANG! Howdy and Dino Storm work (somewhat) because they avoid any kind of context or gameplay that could even touch on the abominations of the time. So, I think you've got something there with the steampunk and eastern themes,but that's because of how different they are from the Cowboys and "Indians" thing.
That said, I do think that an Oregon Trail MMO with resets like PotBS or ATITD has a chance of actually working.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Excellent post. The type of "can do," "out-of-the-box," thinking needed for this type of project.
Well, actually this type of project does not need any thinking .. there is already an abundance of it .. if you give some gamer two hours to chat.
What is really need, if we are talking about something real, is investment (real money, not some amateur doing a KS), know-how and actual commitment to do something.
This type of project would require a lot of THINKING to make it work. You have to start there, not the other way around. Don't be such a buzzkill and douse the flames of creative thinking. People here are talking about the possibilites of a Wild West MMO. I hardly think anyone here is actually trying to build one. There is a very distinct difference there. Fantasizing & Conceptualizing does not equal creating, so why are you talking about investors and "real" money?
Get off your high horse before you fall down and sprain your ankle.
Back on topic: Combining the Wild West and the Victorian era together with some fantasy and occultism would in my mind make for a cool theme. I don't believe in a historic version of the wild west with cowboys vs indians as we've seen portrayed in so many motion pictures. The limitations on gameplay would be devastating.
nah ... this place is full of thinking ... and thinking will end up with absolutely nothing if you don't have investors and people who actually can produce software.
And yes, people on this topic is only talking about the possibility of building one ... none has a clue to actually how to make a huge project happen (or if they do, they are not doing it). So we are just chit-chat here for the sake of chit-chat. If so, it is fair game to point out that nothing real is happening.
Base it on the Deadlands (Western, Horror, with some steampunk) D20 table game and it would sell like hotcakes.
Er, sure, and nanites could be part of a western themed world too, but in either case it isnt' really a western anymore is it? (Wildstar is literally western-sci-fi)
And yes, Italy and Japan factor in to the "limited appeal" I mentioned. It's still limited.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
A bunch of reasons I would never make this game. The most obvious is just the politics and SJW stuff that would happen. You would have a hard time making a serious game and marketing it because all of the coverage you would be getting would be the SJW. Every interview would be about ´do you hate indians, are you a racist´
That could all be avoided just by not having indians or mexicans as the bad guys..
Another problem would just be a splintered fanbase. In this thread we have already heard people say they want a steam-punk wildwest, a fantasy (wildstar) wildwest... maybe something like Firefly... As soon as you decide on one, you probably lost most of the people from the other groups.
Personally, I just would have a problem with character advancement, which is one of the real problems with MMORPGs.. character always have to learn new skills and abilities and basically become more powerful. You start out with a shotgun and a 6-shooter... and a year later? An expansion later?
The setting would be cool..... gold rush.. little house on the prairie...saloons.... but I think character advancement would be a pain for anything outside a single player game.
I think a more 'firefly' ish game, involving 'cowboys in space' is a more doable thing, personal preference though and it neatly avoids all the controversial racism issues.
As for character advancement, well, years ago... there was this game called Traveller, probably most notorious as being the first game to actually have your character die in the creation phase, causing you to redo the whole thing, nasty, but it had some pretty good ideas, and something along those lines in terms of skills etc, might not be a bad idea.
Skills gained during the course of gameplay should be few and far between, and not obtained without commensurate effort, not to mention, having a level less game is something i particularly would like to see
The issues that you outline as problems are no different than they would be for any new MMORPG that is not of the common elve/orc/human/fantasy variety, and certainly nothing that exercising a little thought would not take care of. Character advancement would be no different than character advancements in current MMORPGs. Cooler and more colorful costumes and weapons with stat improvements at higher levels. Plenty of weapon research has already been done in this area in current FPS games making this a no brainer. It seems people who are against this concept are simply making excuses about why it shouldn't as opposed to thinking outside of the box and offering ideas as to why it could. Its a classic looking at the glass as half empty as opposed to half full defeatist mentality.
To those saying westerns are not popular right now....true only because good westerns are not being made. The last really good western that I can remember is Forgiven w/ Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman. The last really good video western was Red Dead Redemation. Both are what nearly 10 years old now. There have also been some very good westerns that were made for TV....Lonesome Dove, Monty Walsh and others. The problem isn't lack of popularity but rather lack of willingness to make something that doesn't require a green screen and special effects.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Again, all that is required is a little thought and imagination. I am not even putting a lot of thought into this project and I can effectively counter your perceived problem by adding magic in the form of native witch doctors. Or melee characters in the form of bruising cowboy brawlers. And then we have archers both native and cavalry types. Weapon specialists a la GW2 engineer types. Bomb technicians/Explosives experts, witch doctors/medical techs as healers. I can go on and on. The possibilities are endless. This is a classic thread highlighting the disparities between optimistic thinkers and pessimistic thinkers. Optimistic thinkers bounce around ideas that seek to find solutions, pessimistic thinkers bounce around ideas to pose barriers to potential solutions. Having a little imagination and being able to think outside the box goes a long way as well.