EVE has every point in the OP, and is actually extremely community oriented as well.
But I don't think the OPS points are what drives community, it is the conflict, strife and resource contention that encourages players to band together for the common good.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by MasterZedX With a full loot pvp server or pvp zone, that's all we ask for.
Who is we? No one I play with (240 member guild) has ever wanted to play any full loot pvp game. You just might be the minority.... PvP yes, full loot? no
Originally posted by MasterZedX With a full loot pvp server or pvp zone, that's all we ask for.
Who is we? No one I play with (240 member guild) has ever wanted to play any full loot pvp game. You just might be the minority.... PvP yes, full loot? no
It's been pointed out from a few heavy posters here that I respect that I can be a bit nasty. It struck me as true and I'm trying to change my ways. Good for you but I have not noticed you being an azs; your posts seem fine to me.
But all I would like is One just ONE community based mmo : "Community based" as in people talk to each other and actually get along with no differences? That's a societal/social issue worthy of a discussion among psychology professors rather than a plea to a random mess of gaming geeks sprinkled lightly in troll spice.
- Open world without zoning for the most part. I don't see anything wrong with a little, but mostly non zoning. Zones were made to reduce lag, hold large server populace, assigned sections for dev production, and ease of adding in updates and expansions without shutting the entire game off for maintenance. Despite this I would also like a zoneless fantasy role play game.
- A good equal mix of solo and group content. Some impossible stuff that requires a group of friends not dynamic crap but real get togethers where you actually have to ask players, guilds or friends. Yet enough solo content where you can be a total lone wolf or simply a play by yourself night when you not in the mood to play with others. That would be Guild Wars 2.
- Very large open space where you can explore without a monster every 5 feet away, or feel compelled to harvest plants every 6 feet away like picking up popcorn. Lol, I was just thinking today playing GW2 that I would like to do something different than fight mobs for nodes. FFXIV placed their nodes out a little better so not all of them were mob guarded.
But we have three issues here in your one sentence: (1) Mob guarded nodes. (2) Entertaining exploration without stress or boredom. (3) Picking nodes; why should we have to at all?
I am tired of the time wasted in games picking nodes. Nor do I want to buy ANYTHING off an npc. Mabinogi had one alternative to this that I loved to death - it was a pet that helped you collect nodes speedingup the process and making it less tedious. Along with cute animations and interactions that gave immersion.
- Dungeons that take well over an hour, where your group has to crawl....Remember how that was fun ? Turbine's DDO was the only game with fun dungeons. No one else has ever come close.
- A very good SOCIAL PANEL........ This is key. In fact, make a very rewarding quest using it so players get used to using it. Dungeons and Dragons Online in the early days had a great social panel that everyone actually used ! I honestly answered the comment above BEFORE I read this, lol.
- Slow leveling but lots of fun where you don't care. MMOs today have you level every half hour because they don't have the content to fill or they have a paid expansion waiting for you to buy. I wish FFXI would go f2p.
- It cant have a cash shop. This breaks up community who-has-what, cant-play-with-him because he is a free player and is lacking. Bad cash shop practices are fatal to an mmo.
Just one, would you welcome an mmo like this ? Do I get to play as an elf/drow?
Is the character creation so big it's half the game itself? Can I design my own armor? Housing? Castle wars? No lag? Works on my shytti computer? Maintenanced regularly but without shutting the entire game down? 3dfancy? Multiple camera views? Pets? Mounts? Dragons? End game? Dynamic landscape? Breeding? RP friendly? Land ownership? No monthly sub? Prompt ticket response? No RMT's? Jail holding cell for repeated abuse report offenders? So much shyt to do I could never hope to get bored?
Originally posted by Clywd The instable, buggy mess that vanguard was at release, sold 250k copies initially. To me it looks like there indeed is a market.
There is plenty of data, from AAA titles to crowdsourcing, that supports that people will buy into an idea and hop on the hype train once it gets rolling. It is no indication of actual audience size or whether interest extends anything beyond first month novelty.
Day 31, 61 and 91 numbers are far more important.
Now, there is a persistent argument on these forums against that approach, primarily because when you look at the number that way, they paint a grim picture. The argument has consistently been that the problem is that no developer has been able to get it right. Despite the real data before them and their own admission that history, data, and probability all point to the next developer 'not getting it right' either, some still are having trouble putting 2 and 2 together on that one.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
SOCIAL PANEL? No you do not need SOCIAL PANEL. You need to force people to compete and cooperate. Why I shall play with you, if I can play alone? Why I shall play with you if I can play with my friends? You cannot have solo social game, that is simply impossible.
Originally posted by delete5230
Yet enough solo content where you can be a total lone wolf or simply a play by yourself night when you not in the mood to play with others.
If you want that - first, you have too much time for games to be healthy, and second you do not want MMO at all.
You havn't played Star Wars Galaxies have you?
Yes there was allot of socializing yet also lots of solo play due to me being a crafter and enjoying going hunting for materials that many simply didn't feel was fun as they did other things to entertain themselfs ingame. Trust me I wasn't crafting allot with company again often solo but I needed to be social and in a virtual world/sandbox games there can be many playstyle fit into one game.
So don't go saying you can not solo and be social. I do understand if you know little of the "old games" But even in today's games you can be pretty much a solo player yet socialize on different front. Though think many think socializing might be grouping/raids or guilds. But to me it's much more......
On topic, yes OP I would like such game, do give it a seperate RP, RP/PVP, RP/PVE server and all will be fine as long it aint forced open world PVP for everyone.
Originally posted by Clywd The instable, buggy mess that vanguard was at release, sold 250k copies initially. To me it looks like there indeed is a market.
There is plenty of data, from AAA titles to crowdsourcing, that supports that people will buy into an idea and hop on the hype train once it gets rolling. It is no indication of actual audience size or whether interest extends anything beyond first month novelty.
Day 31, 61 and 91 numbers are far more important.
Now, there is a persistent argument on these forums against that approach, primarily because when you look at the number that way, they paint a grim picture. The argument has consistently been that the problem is that no developer has been able to get it right. Despite the real data before them and their own admission that history, data, and probability all point to the next developer 'not getting it right' either, some still are having trouble putting 2 and 2 together on that one.
Any way you slice it, 250k is a really good number for a game that would be called "niche" today. Even I didn't buy in on day 1, and neither did most of the people I play with and we represent the most diehard fans of EQ. We simply didn't want to play a buggy unfinished game forced to launch early.
The OP reminds me of a quote from a movie called The Jerk staring Mr. Steve Martin:
Well I’m gonna to go then. And I don’t need any of this. I don’t need this stuff, and I don’t need you. I don’t need anything except this. And that’s it and that’s the only thing I need, is this. I don’t need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that’s all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that’s all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that’s all I need. And that’s all I need too. I don’t need one other thing, not one – I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that’s all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The problem is a lot of players want the type of game you do but not the exact way you do. Everyone would like to make some changes to what you outlined which means it wouldn't be the same game any more, that's a community.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by Clywd The instable, buggy mess that vanguard was at release, sold 250k copies initially. To me it looks like there indeed is a market.
There is plenty of data, from AAA titles to crowdsourcing, that supports that people will buy into an idea and hop on the hype train once it gets rolling. It is no indication of actual audience size or whether interest extends anything beyond first month novelty.
Day 31, 61 and 91 numbers are far more important.
Now, there is a persistent argument on these forums against that approach, primarily because when you look at the number that way, they paint a grim picture. The argument has consistently been that the problem is that no developer has been able to get it right. Despite the real data before them and their own admission that history, data, and probability all point to the next developer 'not getting it right' either, some still are having trouble putting 2 and 2 together on that one.
We must remember, Everquest once had 500,000 subscribers ... in the Age of Dial-up Modems. I think there definitely is a demand out there for a community game. Devs not serving up a quality MMO of that type does not equal low player demand.
First AAA game to come out like that, could very well pwn.
By that logic, all the people that liked/played turn-based RPGs 15-20 years ago either died or moved to Japan.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
But I don't think the OPS points are what drives community, it is the conflict, strife and resource contention that encourages players to band together for the common good.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But but but don't you get it?
Single player MMO's make more money.
Who is we? No one I play with (240 member guild) has ever wanted to play any full loot pvp game. You just might be the minority.... PvP yes, full loot? no
What he said... ^
It's been pointed out from a few heavy posters here that I respect that I can be a bit nasty. It struck me as true and I'm trying to change my ways. Good for you but I have not noticed you being an azs; your posts seem fine to me.
But all I would like is One just ONE community based mmo : "Community based" as in people talk to each other and actually get along with no differences? That's a societal/social issue worthy of a discussion among psychology professors rather than a plea to a random mess of gaming geeks sprinkled lightly in troll spice.
- Open world without zoning for the most part. I don't see anything wrong with a little, but mostly non zoning. Zones were made to reduce lag, hold large server populace, assigned sections for dev production, and ease of adding in updates and expansions without shutting the entire game off for maintenance. Despite this I would also like a zoneless fantasy role play game.
- A good equal mix of solo and group content. Some impossible stuff that requires a group of friends not dynamic crap but real get togethers where you actually have to ask players, guilds or friends. Yet enough solo content where you can be a total lone wolf or simply a play by yourself night when you not in the mood to play with others. That would be Guild Wars 2.
- Very large open space where you can explore without a monster every 5 feet away, or feel compelled to harvest plants every 6 feet away like picking up popcorn. Lol, I was just thinking today playing GW2 that I would like to do something different than fight mobs for nodes. FFXIV placed their nodes out a little better so not all of them were mob guarded.
But we have three issues here in your one sentence: (1) Mob guarded nodes. (2) Entertaining exploration without stress or boredom. (3) Picking nodes; why should we have to at all?
I am tired of the time wasted in games picking nodes. Nor do I want to buy ANYTHING off an npc. Mabinogi had one alternative to this that I loved to death - it was a pet that helped you collect nodes speeding up the process and making it less tedious. Along with cute animations and interactions that gave immersion.
- Dungeons that take well over an hour, where your group has to crawl....Remember how that was fun ? Turbine's DDO was the only game with fun dungeons. No one else has ever come close.
- A very good SOCIAL PANEL........ This is key. In fact, make a very rewarding quest using it so players get used to using it. Dungeons and Dragons Online in the early days had a great social panel that everyone actually used ! I honestly answered the comment above BEFORE I read this, lol.
- Slow leveling but lots of fun where you don't care. MMOs today have you level every half hour because they don't have the content to fill or they have a paid expansion waiting for you to buy. I wish FFXI would go f2p.
- It cant have a cash shop. This breaks up community who-has-what, cant-play-with-him because he is a free player and is lacking. Bad cash shop practices are fatal to an mmo.
Just one, would you welcome an mmo like this ? Do I get to play as an elf/drow?
Is the character creation so big it's half the game itself? Can I design my own armor? Housing? Castle wars? No lag? Works on my shytti computer? Maintenanced regularly but without shutting the entire game down? 3dfancy? Multiple camera views? Pets? Mounts? Dragons? End game? Dynamic landscape? Breeding? RP friendly? Land ownership? No monthly sub? Prompt ticket response? No RMT's? Jail holding cell for repeated abuse report offenders? So much shyt to do I could never hope to get bored?
There is plenty of data, from AAA titles to crowdsourcing, that supports that people will buy into an idea and hop on the hype train once it gets rolling. It is no indication of actual audience size or whether interest extends anything beyond first month novelty.
Day 31, 61 and 91 numbers are far more important.
Now, there is a persistent argument on these forums against that approach, primarily because when you look at the number that way, they paint a grim picture. The argument has consistently been that the problem is that no developer has been able to get it right. Despite the real data before them and their own admission that history, data, and probability all point to the next developer 'not getting it right' either, some still are having trouble putting 2 and 2 together on that one.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You havn't played Star Wars Galaxies have you?
Yes there was allot of socializing yet also lots of solo play due to me being a crafter and enjoying going hunting for materials that many simply didn't feel was fun as they did other things to entertain themselfs ingame. Trust me I wasn't crafting allot with company again often solo but I needed to be social and in a virtual world/sandbox games there can be many playstyle fit into one game.
So don't go saying you can not solo and be social. I do understand if you know little of the "old games" But even in today's games you can be pretty much a solo player yet socialize on different front. Though think many think socializing might be grouping/raids or guilds. But to me it's much more......
On topic, yes OP I would like such game, do give it a seperate RP, RP/PVP, RP/PVE server and all will be fine as long it aint forced open world PVP for everyone.
Any way you slice it, 250k is a really good number for a game that would be called "niche" today. Even I didn't buy in on day 1, and neither did most of the people I play with and we represent the most diehard fans of EQ. We simply didn't want to play a buggy unfinished game forced to launch early.
250k sold is like 100k in a couple of month.
That is like for any MMO games.
The OP reminds me of a quote from a movie called The Jerk staring Mr. Steve Martin:
Well I’m gonna to go then. And I don’t need any of this. I don’t need this stuff, and I don’t need you. I don’t need anything except this. And that’s it and that’s the only thing I need, is this. I don’t need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that’s all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that’s all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that’s all I need. And that’s all I need too. I don’t need one other thing, not one – I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that’s all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
To maintain 250k though they have to sell 1 million +.
The questions then are:
What do they need to add to have that many sales?
How much will it cost to add those things?
Will the added cost of those things mean they now need more than 1 million sales and more than 250k maintenance?
Will adding those things cause them to go less than that 250k maintenance?
I don't know the answers but those are definitely some of the questions.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
By that logic, all the people that liked/played turn-based RPGs 15-20 years ago either died or moved to Japan.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre