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I think what most people hate about EVE is...
scaramoosh
Member Posts: 3,424
in EVE Online
It's a sandbox mmorpg.
Most people want to be told what to do as soon as they login and follow a linear path, story if youw ant to call it that. Like a FPS game your guided on a linear path to end content.
Time based skills also mean that players who like to rush to the end game can't. Well in EVE there isn't really an end game and people try to take on too much tooo fast.
Think the biggest tip you can have in this game is to specialise in something, otherwise you'll find yourself waiting for months to be able to do anything!
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Comments
It's not because it's a sandbox game, but it's because there's like 50 tools for piracy and 1 tool to enforce order. With no way to create general order the only way to enjoy a decent part of the game (player owned stations and such) is to join an alliance that controls some space, which is a difficult task in itself since they're paranoid about people making instas or otherwise intelligence gathering.
Not all PvPing is piracy. You mean to say that there's like 50 tools for people to use in PvP and 1 PWNZALL tool to enforce law where those that can't defend themselves fly.
And you don't have to join an alliance. I know several people that fly solo. They'll never amount to the towers of success that a 2000 player alliance can, but they still have fun.
PvPing in Eve includes:
-Pirating
-Bounty Hunting
-Anti-Pirating
-Mercanaries
-Corporate Battles/Wars
-etc.
It's not all about pirating... it's just what some people chose to do. Choose to fight them, maybe...?
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
I dont know why you think that joining alliance is hard task.
Of course you cannot be a total newbie. You must be able to survive in lawless space (0.0 security status). That means that you need to fly at least Assalut Frigate, BattleShip, BattleCruiser or at least be able to take part in some corporation's operations (good hauler, miner etc)
There are alot of corporations that will be happy with accepting you... but you must be able to do something. Dont expect that they will take you in your first month od gameplay.
And the "sandboxness" of EVE is what makes this game great. It's for the people that dont need to be guided trough all their life.
Why do people only class fighting as PvP?
There is only one server, so if you are a miner (what most would call 'carebear') you are competing with every other player that mines for the limited resources of the universe.
If you run complexes, then you are competing with all the other complex runners trying to do it. Same goes for trading (either NPC or player made items), Manufacture (with the exception of T2 which is mostly cartel like), Pos owners compete to get cheap Ice, Even agent runners compete to get their spoils sold for the best price.
EvE is PvP, because with only one server, its dog eat dog out there.
Why do people only class fighting as PvP?
There is only one server, so if you are a miner (what most would call 'carebear') you are competing with every other player that mines for the limited resources of the universe.
If you run complexes, then you are competing with all the other complex runners trying to do it. Same goes for trading (either NPC or player made items), Manufacture (with the exception of T2 which is mostly cartel like), Pos owners compete to get cheap Ice, Even agent runners compete to get their spoils sold for the best price.
EvE is PvP, because with only one server, its dog eat dog out there.
Simply sticking to the general acceptance of the term PvP... Yes, you are correct that Eve is a dog eat dog game, thus making everything "PvP"... the argument was leaning towards the fighting aspect of PvP.
I do agree with you though
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
You don't have to be in an Alliance to enjoy low security space. I have a one month old character, and I've joined a corporation thats been around for about 4 months. We already have 3 PoS's out in .3 security systems. We're mining moons, manufacturing ammo and ships, and getting into the diplomacy of Eve Online. We're not in 0.0 space yet, but we are slowly building up our members and resources so that we can work our way up toward our goals.
I've of course gotten myself podded a few times, and I've lost a couple ships in Low-security space but it comes with the game. And it makes progression all the sweeter.
See, one of the big turnoffs for me when I first heard about this game (and why I never downloaded the beta client when I was accepted for it) was the wide-open PvP. I'm the kind of player that, while not completely opposed to PvP in general (I consider it a rather distasteful fact of life in some games), am completely opposed to PvP in which some 15 year old hormonal pimply faced kid looking to take out aggressions can not only ruin my playing experience, but take everything I worked to acquire in the process. Or eve worse, 10 15 year olds who decided to band together with their warships and gank the freighter (as I would most assuredly be a miner/merchant in this game)
It's why I don't play the PvP servers in most MMO's, it's why I quit MajorMUD ages ago, and it's a big reason why I never purchased this game. The thought of being able to just mine, craft, resell and do things other than kill stuff appeals to me like nothing else--the risks that go along with it in this particular game are more of a turnoff though. The lack of ganking is a big reason why I played SWG from launch day--I could do just that (build mining stations, craft droids, build a city, etc.)...SOE had it right up until they nerfed all the craftables, had the ore deposits rotate, and generally made it more hassle than it was worth to play.
You play EVE and never fight another player. It is called emprie space, and is 99% safe. I've been playing for 3 years, and have never attacked or been attacked by another player. It all depends on what you want to do. I love mining, running missions, finding some good trade routes. When I want to blow stuff up, I fight NPCS (PVE) and reprocess the loot. I can do this for as long as the game is around - there is nothing that says I have to fight in a PVP manner. I usually don't PVP for the reasons you just described: However you've got the freedom to do whatever you like in EVE - which includes NOT fighting or being ganked by other players!
As a side note, it can happen in "safe" space. The times it does, it is usually someone transporting an obscene amount of ISK or goods in an unsafe ship. Why do they make armored cars? To protect whats on the inside. If you transport goods of a high value (in the billions), you do run a risk, however slight that someone would be willing to forfiet a 100 million ship to make billions off you!
There are three ways to do anything in EVE, thats half the charm. And why I don't mind mining, and making items, and trading and....
Just a little FYI there... EVE has one of the oldest player bases of any game. My Corp CEO is a 60yr Retired Royal Marine. Generally, because it takes a brain to figure out how to work PVP in EVE and just combat in general. I mean hell, I can take on 3 NPCs cruisers in 0.2 space w/ a ship, equipment, & weapons that would take a new player 3 days to aquire.
The reason I like PVP, is because it's different. Not that it's different from other games, I mean it as in you don't know what if the fuck someone is going to do... where as a MOB you pretty much know what he's going to do and how he's going to act. Not to mention the war aspect of it.
The PVP aspect of EVE allows players like you to not do their jobs mindlessly, they have to be vigilant and network to aquire defenses against PvPers and NPCs while they are mining. Using social strategy to gain the upper hand on PvP. (Edit: even if you're not participating in PVP directly)
If I wanted to play a dumb, mindless game, I would go play pokemon.
I play EVE because I enjoying thinking about what I need to do, how to go about doing it, and just the ability to keep my mind active instead of numbing it w/ carebear PVE games.
A Work in Progress.
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Yeah well see I'm not asking to be left to do things mindlessly. I have no problems with trekking into dangerous territory to get some rare item or component or artifact in which some big bad mob might wipe the floor with me. That's what mobs do. I can also essentially plan for that ("OK, I'm going here...what can I expect to see...how do I have to configure myself and my defenses to survive against these mobs". Whereas an MMO it's a situation where "Well, I'll be alright against mobs in here, but no telling if I'm going to run into 25 battleships full of hormonal idiots who are just out ganking everyone in sight) But little uber kiddies on the other hand...that's a whole different animal
There are a lot of mechanics in EvE that make death, and combat even, so much of a "you're screwed" type situation than something of strategy. Example: Ships sitting 100km away from the gate using sniping weapons. Tacklers that make any kind of retreat impossible. Or just running into a bigger crowd than yours.
K. So stay away from it? That's part of the stategy too, you know.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
If someone's sitting at sniper range, sic your covert ops buddy on 'em, then warp in right on top of the sniper with tacklers and battleships/HACs. Alternately just snipe right back.
For tacklers making retreat impossible, that's the point - without the ability to warp scramble your opponent, EVE would become like other games where combat is indecisive because your opponent can just run away.
As for running into a bigger crowd, it happens; hell, sometimes you're the bigger crowd. If you use scouts and/or carefully watch local, you're much less likely to get ganked when a larger gang shows up. When that happens, just move between various safespots continuously until they leave or its safe to log - a covert ops will find it almost impossible to nail down a moving target.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Just a little FYI there... EVE has one of the oldest player bases of any game. My Corp CEO is a 60yr Retired Royal Marine. Generally, because it takes a brain to figure out how to work PVP in EVE and just combat in general. I mean hell, I can take on 3 NPCs cruisers in 0.2 space w/ a ship, equipment, & weapons that would take a new player 3 days to aquire.
The reason I like PVP, is because it's different. Not that it's different from other games, I mean it as in you don't know what if the fuck someone is going to do... where as a MOB you pretty much know what he's going to do and how he's going to act. Not to mention the war aspect of it.
The PVP aspect of EVE allows players like you to not do their jobs mindlessly, they have to be vigilant and network to aquire defenses against PvPers and NPCs while they are mining. Using social strategy to gain the upper hand on PvP. (Edit: even if you're not participating in PVP directly)
If I wanted to play a dumb, mindless game, I would go play pokemon.
I play EVE because I enjoying thinking about what I need to do, how to go about doing it, and just the ability to keep my mind active instead of numbing it w/ carebear PVE games.
Damn you for stealling my good reply...
To the Lamethrower though, you'd be surprised what kind of mindstate is required for a game full of ex-military and people from all over the world all playing together. Yes, there ARE those pimply faced 15 year olds, but they usually wind up whining on the Eve forums, get no sympothy, and head right back to WoW IF their maturity isn't what is required from Eve. I know a 10 or 11 year old in game that I would trust more than most people my age (22, almost 23). He's my CEO's son. My CEO is 50 something. One of the best people I've ever met in Eve is a 60+, honorably-discharged, war veteran. I've seen -literally- tons of people show up to morn the real-life death of a corp mate, and half of these people were at war with each other, and everybody.. EVERYBODY.. maintained a level of humanity I've never EVER seen before in ANY game I've played. This never would've happened in WoW, or EQ2, or anywhere else that true children, regardless of age, play.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
I'm what you would call a Hardcore Eve player, I suppose. I have an 19million SP character, I am a member of a 0.0 alliance. I regularly gank, and get ganked. If I don't lose a few ships a week, I'm not working hard enough, basically
Then again, in Fleet I usually fly Inties.
BUT, that status only came by -chance-. I met someone as a trading partner in empire, worked with him for a long time. Later he went on to join an alliance in 0.0 and invited me in. Then I learned how to survive in 0.0, tactics, game limitations, etc. 0.0 is The Undiscovered Country in Eve. Most players don't have access to it, or understand how to live in it. Most players don't understand that there are large areas of 0.0 that are essentially uncontested, and considered 'crappy' areas that Alliances don't patrol.. areas that are far superior to low sec or empire in terms of resource wealth. Most players don't know that there are NPC stations in 0.0 that anyone can use to base out of, and that if you have a fast frigate and an MWD you can move around almost completely safely. Most players don't realize that getting hit is a fact of life in 0.0, and you pace your activities around that idea, such that you make FAR more money than you lose in ships just by NPCing and mining. Most players don't know that 0.0 is, for the most part, SAFER than low sec. Most players don't know that you can get your corporation good standing with a 0.0 alliance by doing them favors, or buying the privelege. Hell, most players don't know how to setup a Midwarp Safe Spot, or that Scan Probes can break their safe spot in under 3 minutes if there is a crack team at it, or that there are unbreakable safe spots out there, but they are off grid, etc.
I think that if CCP has made one crucial error in their calculations, it is that they expected 0.0 to be the heavily populated area of Eve, and that players would logically progress into 0.0 as they grew their characters. Empire would just become 'newbie' space, as it were. But they failed to remember that people will be people, and having a safety net for many, many people is more important than cutting edge, brutal gameplay.
Eve is a fantastic game, or I wouldn't be playing it. But it IS lightweight, it is severely limited in scope, there is no personal Avatar, and the economy is somewhat FUBAR. I guess that's more of a statement on MMOG in general.
Oh.. and the hook? "Hey.. Im tired of playing.. but my skills will progress while I am logged off. I'll just keep them running while I go and play this other game...." hence, subscription retention. And in Eve maxed is maxed. You can specialize heavily and have an absolute kick arse character in a few months. Assuming you like flying frigates. :-)
All this in a game whose client was coded in Python. Amazing. :-)
Peace.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
How do you transport ISK in the game? I thought it was all in your wallet. Is it possible to see how much ISK someone has and steal it after destroying their ship?
Sounding more and more like a gankfest to me. Bunch of hyenas out to ruin someone else's day. I think you'll find most people (myself included), while tolerant of others with too much pent up aggression, generally won't pay for (and continue to pay to play) a game in which entire areas of the game--possibly the best areas of all--are off limits or restricted to you simply because of those other individuals and the fact that said person doesn't particularly find PvP combat enticing or enjoyable. Bottom line is this: There's a reason why just about every MMO out there makes you turn in a book or put up a flag or something of that nature in order to be PvP-able. Most people want nothing to do with it.
Sounding more and more like a gankfest to me. Bunch of hyenas out to ruin someone else's day. I think you'll find most people (myself included), while tolerant of others with too much pent up aggression, generally won't pay for (and continue to pay to play) a game in which entire areas of the game--possibly the best areas of all--are off limits or restricted to you simply because of those other individuals and the fact that said person doesn't particularly find PvP combat enticing or enjoyable. Bottom line is this: There's a reason why just about every MMO out there makes you turn in a book or put up a flag or something of that nature in order to be PvP-able. Most people want nothing to do with it.
Maybe most will not, but some 70 - 80k ppl do, myself included. We take pleasure in the fact that great rewards come with grave danger. If you are brave enough to go to places where you know you might be killed, and there are 101 tools and methods to avoid that, but if you end up dying you deserved it. Thare are some area's that are protected by police and other areas are not. If you want to survive you got to work with other people. I don't think that anything should be done about this issue, it is more of a take it or leave it.
And I think you'll find most people will "leave it". I'm still yet to really understand this game or see for myself what it's like, but it's sounding a lot less appetizing than 24 hours ago when I found out it was a "player vendor" heavy system.
101 ways to escape and if they don't they deserve it? From what I've read in this and one other thread, it generally goes like this: You decide you want to go play in a better area of the game, a more fulfilling area, a DIFFERENT area, get some new scenery, etc. You warp to this new area, and as soon as you come out of the gate (hell, if your computer or connection isn't fast enough, even before you get out of the gate), you've got ships firing sniper shots at you, and when you decide that you'll just come back later when there's not an idiot on the other end of the zone getting his rocks off by bothering other players, you can't because some other idiot is ramming his ship into you so you can't leave, and then 4 or 5 other idiots show up and finish you off in the traditional "I didn't know how many of them it was gonna take to kick my ass...but I knew how many they were gonna use" schpiel.
So, the "alternative" you gankers provide to this if said player wants to play in peace is to join up with a corp that offers protection...problem is, since the game is so overrun with spies and alts (read: The gankers) that try to join corps in order to gain information through unreasonable methods (i.e. using the alts to benefit the advancement of their main character), the corporations are all real leery about letting anyone into their circles, so you face an uphill battle on even that front.
Which leaves the option of staying in limited areas in which "police" (either player or NPC, I've never been able to discern who these "police" are) cruise around...in other words, segregation of the game ("You can't go past this point, even though you're paying just as much as everyone else").
Like I said...I'll see for myself at some point, but my high hopes are quickly dwindling.
Basically what people hate about Eve is that its everything that WoW isn't.
No matter how stupid you are, in WOW you're the golden hero that saved Azeroth, when you enter Stormwind they play parade music, buxom womenfolk long to kneel at your armored feet in gratitude, for saving them from the evil kobolds which you dispatched with 2 strokes of your magical sword.
Its childish fantasy that coddles your ego in every sense.
Then you log in to Eve :
You're a nobody, sitting in the ass end of nowhere. Nobody tells you what to do. While you sit there ignorant, violent battles rage across the universe. Your ship is mass produced by a middle aged mortgage banker every night after his job. Nobody cares if you live or die except your insurance company, and possibly the people in your corporation.
If the CEO mouths off to someone, the rest of you might have to pay for it.
People can't handle that.
They're basically carebears who need to be the golden hero, they can't stand it that that you may need to ask permission to mine somewhere or that you may need to apologize for running your mouth, or that you may need others to simply survive.
The carebear Ego just can't handle Eve.
This is a clan-based PVP game, and most people can't play it.
I don't think that's it at all. I think the reason behind it is most people just want to be left alone. Video games are a release. People work hard all day, put up with bosses they hate, have job stress, etc. and when they get home and play a game, they just want to relax, do what they like to do and enjoy themselves for a while--NOT have to put up with some moron wanting to impose his style of play on the other person or to have the frustrating, anger, and hassle of being ganked by a gang of thugs who's idea of blowing off steam is to steam someone else. When one's life goal (or something one enjoys or considers something worth bragging about) is controlling a sector of nonexistent space in a video game somewhere and getting to exert power and authority in that meaningless medium--power they lack in reality, most likely--that's a pretty sad thing. The desire of some people to "control" is a real turn off for the masses.
I think most people hate EVE because it's too complicated for any of there simple minds to understand.
Been on EVE for a long while now and all I have to say is "Damn"
TBH, EVE may not be the game for you, then. The devs designed it to be a PvP gang, and most of them use their characters (not their dev characters, but the ones they actually play the game with) to PvP in some form or another. Some of them are even pirates. This means that the PvP system will not be changing any time soon.
I can empathize with playing the game to relax, to de-stress after a hard day. Personally, I find beating down other players relaxing, though I rarely attack without reason. This is why I play EVE - I enjoy the PvP.
For those who don't enjoy PvP, however, I would suggest either playing a different, PvE-based MMO or taking up a single-player game. If you truly wish to avoid all PvP in EVE, you limit yourself to high security space and, hence, a only a small portion of EVE's gameplay.
To reiterate: EVE is PvP, from the market to pirating to territory control. EVE is not a game where PvE is the primary focus. NPC belt rats and missions weren't even part of the game when it was launched; they were added later.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"