Yet you still misunderstand the entire point. Noone ever said "I will take good graphics over good gameplay" My two examples were AC and EQ2. Both games have awesome gameplay and in their day they both had awesome graphics. Why should this day and age be any different? Console players get new systems with better graphics. We as PC players purchase new graphic cards, new CPUs and more RAM and for what? Every genre BUT MMOs? No. This day and age we should be able to have gameplay and graphics. No shame in that. Graphics help with immersion. Along side story and sound and many other things.
Yes once again you are right. I don't understand your point.
So basically you are saying that in your case, every NEW game should come with state of the art graphics. In this day and age. Because it is easy and cheap to do.
Sorry Indie devs, you are wasting your time. Without acceptable graphics your game is going to suck.
Whatever floats your boat my friend.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
It's not hard to find a good MMO. A good MMO is just about anything aside from flash-based play themself nonsense. People want great, and there aren't many games that stand above the rest. Personally, I'm playing FFXIV, and even with their history of content updates, I'm bored as all fuck at this point and just levelling alternate classes until the next update. BUt even when looking for a great game, a player needs an endless supply of content, or else boredom sets in. The entire genre is fucked if you care about keeping a player long term. At best, an MMO should attempt to keep players happy all the time, but a player shouldn't expect to continue playing non-stop like they did levelling. It's not going to happen, but it seems to be what people want. They want a continuous upgrade/reward system, but they don't want a lot of levelling which is exactly the same fucking thing they want in the end, but they are unwilling to labor through the grind that isn't as up to date as the other grind. Ugh.
I really like archeage , everyone says is paid I dont believe in that , i cant play any other mmo without thinking in how archeage is really different , the rage is really intense in this game, setember will start a new server you should give it a try
I disagree. Many of us have realistic expectations. It's just the partnership between the casuals and the game devs is too lucrative and gets in the way of making anything decent.
Funny as well because unrealistic expectations is a dumb thing to say, the games we want used to be made, they're not impossible or unrealistic. What happened though was WoW became popular and everyone tried to copy it and failed, they got what was popular about WoW wrong... now Blizzard are getting that wrong too. So everyone bailed out of the genre and no one is making MMOs any more, developers didn't even try to deliver what the genre was created for in the first place again. We should have big worlds to live in, when I think of a Star Wars MMO, I think of SWG, not SWTOR, I want to live in that world, I don't want a linear single player experience.
Middle Earth online was another example of just existing in that world, but then they changed it to LOTRO and it became this linear story telling ride and failed. What do most fans fantasize about? Living in Middle Earth, that is what they wanted, they didn't want a single player RPG.
Now the genre is dead and for some reason everyone is calling hub based games an MMO. Like no, they were were in the past, no one called Diablo, Phantasy Star Online or Guild Wars MMOs, they were another genre to their own. Some how though every MMO got casualized down into this hub game, where no one goes out in the world and they all just do instances while standing in city or in SWTORs case the cities are all dead and you stand in instanced Fleets. So now we're at the point where Destiny is the future of what people call and MMO and it's sad...
I'm sick of all the bullshit people throw around about how we're nostalgic or have unreal expectations. No, we crave an MMO because they aren't coming out any more...
there are plenty of good MMO's to play, if u cant find one then the problem is with you and not with the games. You are probably burnd out on playing mmo games then.
I really like archeage , everyone says is paid I dont believe in that , i cant play any other mmo without thinking in how archeage is really different , the rage is really intense in this game, setember will start a new server you should give it a try
I liked the premise of Archage. It was a step in the right direction. But for us that have played the earlier MMORPGs, I guess what you call the 2nd generation MMOs, it was a linear world. Granted it does have a lot of neat gimmicks. Also for us that played alpha, it is really hard to go back without seeing how it has all these restrictions turned on (that is supposed to make you pay more money).
there are plenty of good MMO's to play, if u cant find one then the problem is with you and not with the games. You are probably burnd out on playing mmo games then.
Ever since Vanilla WoW I've had such a hard time sticking to an MMO for more than a month or so and I don't know why. Prior to WoW I played SWG (played it while playing WoW too) and UO.
I've been searching for 10 years to find an MMO that I can play and keep coming back to, but it's seems impossible for me. Maybe it's my short attention span, or MMO's don't do it for me anymore, but I just think there hasn't been one interesting enough for me to stay for a long period of time since old WoW.
Almost every new MMO that comes out is missing or has something I don't like making it not enjoyable for me that I don't stick around(if it's not one thing it's another). It seems like all these newer MMO's have lost the community aspect of the game and everything is Solo, or instanced PvP, instanced dungeons, etc. It's just so hard to find a good mix of old school, thrown in with 'some' newer school mechanics.
I was hoping archeage would be that game, but look how that turned out. I'm waiting on EQN, but we might not ever see that.
Such is life.
I agree 100%! I feel the same way I play all these games for month at a time then it loses me.
Here's the question for you op:
If you could play(which you most decidedly can) vanilla wow today...would you enjoy it?
The same goes for all the "classical" games: Eq 1 / 2 , daoc, guild wars. So...would you enjoy the 100% vanilla taste?
I go back to EQ every now and then. If I had the source code and could fix the (hundreds of) quest and crafting bugs that always make me rage quit I could keep playing it.
(I'd also make lots of small changes like reduce the mob HP by about 10% and reduce exp needed to level by about 10% etc.)
The basic design of EQ suits me fine it's just the implementation of each idea had a lot of flaws.
#
"why is it so hard to find a good mmo?"
mmos can exist along a spectrum from pure FPS to pure RPG so the obvious compromise is 50/50 but it's not working because the player base has more of a bipolar distribution than a bell curve with one segment wanting c. 90%+ FPS and another segment wanting c. 70%+ RPG so developers would be better served aiming at either end of the spectrum rather than the middle.
My sig explains everything. You will never see games like UO style again. Players today just can't handle it.
If you are too lazy to read the two links in my sig, here is the video:
This isnt entirely true, there are some, but their quality is anything but stellar. Indie companies don't have the proper funding to polish and maintain updates to a game, and in this niche of the genre poor choices usually rife the game at some point. SWG, UO, DFO all went through these huge game destroying changes. More or less we get low quality games that all sound good on paper but always fail in execution.
Because "Good" is subjective. And 15 years ago, what a few hundred thousand thought was good, are now finding that it's much harder to get millions to agree on today.
Well, yes good is subjective so what I like is not what you like, but to find an MMO that's a living and breathing world like SWG, AC1, EQ, old WoW seems to be much harder. Maybe it's because I look back on it with rose titnted glasses?
I actually don't think its the rose tinted glasses. Because even the games we remember have been changed for the worse if they are still running. Everything that made those games great back then is lost on current MMO players and the devs that keep catering to them. Devs no longer strive to make a fun virtual world, a challenging place where you can proud of your achievements. Now its all about catering to as broad an audience as possible and doing whatever it takes to coax the most money out of them.
Probably because old-school MMOs actually forced you to build a community to actually get anything done. It was incredibly time consuming, but at the same time it was one of the reasons why they were truly memorable and fun. Stuff also took much more effort to do and hence you valued it more. When people have incentives, they'll come out of their shells and try to band together. At least, that's personally why I realized I was no longer having fun in WoW or any current MMO.
Im also one of those old mmo players who grew up with the classics. ultima, 6 years of EQ1 and then 7 years of wow. And have so many fond memories of those early games and communities. I also want that feeling back!
But I realize that the world had changed alot from that time. Still I had alot of hopes put to EQ:next. Atleast before i saw the horrible things they showed at SOE:Live last year. Dont get me wrong, some stuff looked/sounded great but the overall feeling was wrong. But then I understood that im not longer part of target audience anymore. And I understand that a big future title cant rely on the old school kids like myself. They need to apeal to the broader masses that will consume over the next 10 year. Still it makes me abit sad that the audciences of tomorrow wont get to expeience those feelings of real accomplishments of lots of invested time and great communities. Maybe they get it some other way i cant see. And maybe that will appeal to me too.
The eq1 theme music and logging into freeport still gives me shivers and just a great feeling. I still try to do that once every couple of years just for the reminder
Ever since Vanilla WoW I've had such a hard time sticking to an MMO for more than a month or so and I don't know why. Prior to WoW I played SWG (played it while playing WoW too) and UO.
I've been searching for 10 years to find an MMO that I can play and keep coming back to, but it's seems impossible for me. Maybe it's my short attention span, or MMO's don't do it for me anymore, but I just think there hasn't been one interesting enough for me to stay for a long period of time since old WoW.
Almost every new MMO that comes out is missing or has something I don't like making it not enjoyable for me that I don't stick around(if it's not one thing it's another). It seems like all these newer MMO's have lost the community aspect of the game and everything is Solo, or instanced PvP, instanced dungeons, etc. It's just so hard to find a good mix of old school, thrown in with 'some' newer school mechanics.
I was hoping archeage would be that game, but look how that turned out. I'm waiting on EQN, but we might not ever see that.
Such is life.
Hi there may I recommend a few titles for you, if you like me and many others loved city of heroes then you may want to look into marvel heroes since its free and you do not need to invest, it is perfect for any altitus type of gamer, as there are 52 heroes to choose from, now the other recommendation is something like guildwars 2 where its classless which is also perfect for people who love to not be stuck in one role.
Eso isnt bad either when it comes to building characters. I would recommend the secret world but its horror and weird and personally I think most people are looking for something not so dark after a long day of work to play. Having a hard time getting into it myself lately.
I am basically in the same boat as you however but soon I will be able to actually buy eso and maybe guild wars 2 so that might hold me over. You can always try other multiplayer games like torchlight 2 if you cannot find an mmorpg its better then no online experience at all.
I am in the same boat with you OP, I can't seem to find a game that made me say wow this is awesome.. then I played BnS every version and that game hooked me in.. I really am hopeing that game makes me have the wow factor as Tera did..
Black Desert is pretty good but they cant call it action base combat with aim assistants, b/c it is really is like tab target atm unless you turn it off but then you are at a disadvantage
People have too many choices now. Only reason certain games were considered 10+ years ago was because you didn't have that much choice (and they were actually good, but that's irrelevant). Too many people see this as easy money, so that's why you see so many f2p games every week, always promising to delivery something different, just to get hook silly people that dont mind exposing their wallets and saying "You guys are just mad cause you dont have the money to spend." Take away choices and you'll get good quality games again, guaranteed.
I havent found a better mmo than GW2. Do you agree with me? probably not, just as i dont agree with you that old mmos were more alive and breathing. Those were more generic and static.
I think the better question would be, Why is it so hard to find an mmo that you like?.
I had the same problem you had man! I tried games like Guild Wars 2, Rift, Wildstar, Swtor, Eso, Archeage, practically any big mmo that has ben released over the years, but none of them ever compared to Wow. Of all the ones I list the one that got my attention the most were guild wars 2 and Archeage (Archeage being the best one imo, however it was destroyed by trion bad management of the game) but even these two games I played for most than a month. I dont know why, but one of the few mmos that I didnt played was final fantasy xiv, I heard great things about the games however I also heard it was a wow clone. once the expansion came for the came Heavensward I finally decided to try out the game and created a trial account. Oh man! I never thought I would have fun questing again in an mmorpg, the quests are fun to do do but more importantly they are immersive due to the great stories that are written on this quests. I recommend you to try out the game it really is the only mmorpg that could ever replace WoW for me.
I wasn't impressed by FF XIV either when I tried well over a year ago. It was adorable, has great stuff in it but somehow it didn't just click with me. Being forced to play characters I didn't like simply to change jobs or whatever they are called, really annoyed me. I can see how some really love it. It came close though. Archeage I thought was going to be my new home until Trion royally screwed it up. I won't ever return to AA again. I won't ever go back to WoW either.
I enjoy ESO unlimited but it is missing the features other mmo's have. It is kind of boring after awhile to be honest. Not enough class variety. It is like a second game, not a main game. I am playing Skyforge but that too is more of a distraction until I find a good MMO. I'm loosing hope.
I havent found a better mmo than GW2. Do you agree with me? probably not, just as i dont agree with you that old mmos were more alive and breathing. Those were more generic and static.
I think the better question would be, Why is it so hard to find an mmo that you like?.
It is not that they where less static but much bigger worlds and with much more danger therefor thats why made them alive, fun can be subjective and its not always subjective.
Comments
So basically you are saying that in your case, every NEW game should come with state of the art graphics. In this day and age. Because it is easy and cheap to do.
Sorry Indie devs, you are wasting your time. Without acceptable graphics your game is going to suck.
Whatever floats your boat my friend.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Funny as well because unrealistic expectations is a dumb thing to say, the games we want used to be made, they're not impossible or unrealistic. What happened though was WoW became popular and everyone tried to copy it and failed, they got what was popular about WoW wrong... now Blizzard are getting that wrong too. So everyone bailed out of the genre and no one is making MMOs any more, developers didn't even try to deliver what the genre was created for in the first place again. We should have big worlds to live in, when I think of a Star Wars MMO, I think of SWG, not SWTOR, I want to live in that world, I don't want a linear single player experience.
Middle Earth online was another example of just existing in that world, but then they changed it to LOTRO and it became this linear story telling ride and failed. What do most fans fantasize about? Living in Middle Earth, that is what they wanted, they didn't want a single player RPG.
Now the genre is dead and for some reason everyone is calling hub based games an MMO. Like no, they were were in the past, no one called Diablo, Phantasy Star Online or Guild Wars MMOs, they were another genre to their own. Some how though every MMO got casualized down into this hub game, where no one goes out in the world and they all just do instances while standing in city or in SWTORs case the cities are all dead and you stand in instanced Fleets. So now we're at the point where Destiny is the future of what people call and MMO and it's sad...
I'm sick of all the bullshit people throw around about how we're nostalgic or have unreal expectations. No, we crave an MMO because they aren't coming out any more...
But for us that have played the earlier MMORPGs, I guess what you call the 2nd generation MMOs, it was a linear world.
Granted it does have a lot of neat gimmicks.
Also for us that played alpha, it is really hard to go back without seeing how it has all these restrictions turned on (that is supposed to make you pay more money).
I had fun once, it was terrible.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I go back to EQ every now and then. If I had the source code and could fix the (hundreds of) quest and crafting bugs that always make me rage quit I could keep playing it.
(I'd also make lots of small changes like reduce the mob HP by about 10% and reduce exp needed to level by about 10% etc.)
The basic design of EQ suits me fine it's just the implementation of each idea had a lot of flaws.
#
"why is it so hard to find a good mmo?"
mmos can exist along a spectrum from pure FPS to pure RPG so the obvious compromise is 50/50 but it's not working because the player base has more of a bipolar distribution than a bell curve with one segment wanting c. 90%+ FPS and another segment wanting c. 70%+ RPG so developers would be better served aiming at either end of the spectrum rather than the middle.
(imo)
MurderHerd
Im also one of those old mmo players who grew up with the classics. ultima, 6 years of EQ1 and then 7 years of wow.
And have so many fond memories of those early games and communities. I also want that feeling back!
But I realize that the world had changed alot from that time. Still I had alot of hopes put to EQ:next. Atleast before i saw the horrible things they showed at SOE:Live last year. Dont get me wrong, some stuff looked/sounded great but the overall feeling was wrong. But then I understood that im not longer part of target audience anymore. And I understand that a big future title cant rely on the old school kids like myself. They need to apeal to the broader masses that will consume over the next 10 year. Still it makes me abit sad that the audciences of tomorrow wont get to expeience those feelings of real accomplishments of lots of invested time and great communities. Maybe they get it some other way i cant see. And maybe that will appeal to me too.
The eq1 theme music and logging into freeport still gives me shivers and just a great feeling. I still try to do that once every couple of years just for the reminder
Black Desert is pretty good but they cant call it action base combat with aim assistants, b/c it is really is like tab target atm unless you turn it off but then you are at a disadvantage
You forget the fun part and only hope for the rush to the end or the fight to have the best gear.
Not what it's about.
Talking to a wall though..so whatever
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Good is subjective.
I havent found a better mmo than GW2. Do you agree with me? probably not, just as i dont agree with you that old mmos were more alive and breathing. Those were more generic and static.
I think the better question would be, Why is it so hard to find an mmo that you like?.
I enjoy ESO unlimited but it is missing the features other mmo's have. It is kind of boring after awhile to be honest. Not enough class variety. It is like a second game, not a main game. I am playing Skyforge but that too is more of a distraction until I find a good MMO. I'm loosing hope.