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Newsletter, Issue 14: Game of the Week.
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
This week, we featured Star Wars: Galaxies as our game of the week. The question that we pose to you, the readres, is whether or not a gaming company has the right to severely change their game after the game's release. This isn't a question simply of SWG, or whether or not you like the changes, but rather of the MMORPG genre as a whole.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
As I see it, of course they have the right... It is their product, and just as a car manufacturer can decide to put a lawnmover engine in their car and see if it sells, a game designe can drastically change their game, and see if that sells.
Now... when no one buys that lawnmover Mercedes, since most costumers speak with their wallets... Then the real question appears: what will the manufacturer do? Admit a mistake and put a real engine in the car. Or say all the costumers are crazy and... he has very well kept grass back home now.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I voted no on this subject...just because it's a shady thing to do.
I said Maybe.The reason why I said maybe is that the developers should ask us (the players) if this would be a good idea or not. Even if they are still going to go through with there "new" idea then they should put it out in the open and ask for any CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions.
They shouldn't just go ahead and change it and give us a 2 weeks notice. Don't GO Behind EVERYONES back and change what we already enjoyed. I personally gave the NGE my best shot. I played as much as i could in the test server before NGE was released, and even when it was releaseed I still gave it a good 2 months. I didn't like it then and still don't like now.
I said Maybe.The reason why I said maybe is that the developers should ask us (the players) if this would be a good idea or not. Even if they are still going to go through with there "new" idea then they should put it out in the open and ask for any CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions.
They shouldn't just go ahead and change it and give us a 2 weeks notice. Don't GO Behind EVERYONES back and change what we already enjoyed. I personally gave the NGE my best shot. I played as much as i could in the test server before NGE was released, and even when it was releaseed I still gave it a good 2 months. I didn't like it then and still don't like now.
I also think that I can guarantee... 99% certainty.. that no other game company, in the future and beyond.. will ever do such a huge overhaul of their game again. Everyone has followed the chaos that is SWG and SOE and I am pretty sure the overall impression in the business is:
Bad idea
People are still learning how to run huge games like this. This incident was a good lesson for everyone. Loyal costumers are the last people you want to anger...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
of course it's their right. just like it's the customer's right to stop paying them once they screw it up.
==========================
I voted no!! How can they have the right to change a game that was bought "as described" one thing and turn it into something completely different? I certainly didnt buy the piece of junk that the game (swg in this instance) has become and would never do so.
If they wanted to make complete changes they should have released a new game not just pervert the old one.
This analogy is a bit off. While I havent played SWG myself from what I've heard it sounds like what SOE did to SWG is like paying for a Mercedes and after months of putting gas money and upkeep to maintain your Mercedes, Benz comes and reposesses your car and tears out the body, engine, interior and even changes it to take high performace F-1 Racing gas instead of unleaded gas. Then they send it back to you. Now you can choose to cancel your payements for the Mercedes but all that money you spent on it would be wasted. On the other hand many people wouldnt want to continue with the Mercedes because it was changed into something that they didnt like (perhaps the newer Mercedes would be slower or uglier, or perhaps have less features).
This is a very iffy issue, while developers technically do have the right to modify their game (since there are no laws stating that mmorpg makers cannot patch their games, or revamp) it is not only unethical but a bad business move as well. Some changes are good, but I believe before any changes are implemented (even slight ones) they should be run on a test server to see how the community reacts and only be implemented if a good majority of the people agree with the changes. Even then, changes that involve a character wipe and/or a complete rehaul of the engine and gameplay mechanics should come with compensation for any player who does not agree with the changes, whether it be a refund for all the months they played starting when then update was announced, free additional months, ingame items, or a complete refund of the game and monthly fees.
While expecting a full refund is unrealstic, the companies should at least offer some compensation to the people who put time into a game that eventually disappeared and in its place a completely different beast.
-Shojin
Just on the border of your waking mind
There lies another time
Where darkness and light are one,
And as you tread the halls of sanity,
You feel so glad to be unable to go beyond.
I have a message from another time...
Axis Eleven
Well, it might feel a bit off, but its not. Because there is another thing they have the right to do, at will, at any time, and the players can say nothing about it. You talk about compensation for time lost because a game took a change for the worst, in a players taste.... Well.
A game developer also have the right to cancel the game with a weeks notice and end all subscriptions immediatly, if the game does not go well. In other words, take back the car you payed for all those years. And, in that case as well, they do not owe you anything. To change the game, but keep it running.. is the nice way to do it.... You talk about compensation as "realistic". I am sorry, it is not.
The question here is not if it was a nice thing to change to game.. or an ethical thing to change the game. The question is not if the costumers should like that the game is changed, or if costumers should be reimbursed if a game changes.
The question is, do they have the RIGHT to change the game. And, unfortunatly, just as in releasing an expansion, raising the level cap and make all your items worthless, no matter how many years you worked on achieving them... They have all the right in the world
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I did agree that developers have the right to change their game, but I believe this is only due to the lack of laws over anything computer related in general; especially anything pertaining to internet related activites, since the internet is still a rather young technology and is constantly evolving. Also, most changes to games MMO and otherwise are usually upgrades which fix bugs and add content to existing core features. What SOE has done however is completely change the client, so much so that its not even compatible with the original game which was sold in stores.
Now I know expecting any kind of compensation from an MMO company in the way of monthly fees is highly unlikely, just like a phone service wouldnt refund months prior to a major service change (maybe requiring new phones or a restricted calling area etc.). The problem here is not the monthly fees, after all you paid to play that month and you so you did. The problem here is that people bought SWG (and perhaps expansions) expecting to play what was described in the box, and now with the updates the game is no longer what the players bought which is making them upset. To many people mmo are nothing more then a virtual hobby, character wipes and drastic changes have been somewhat of an acceptance to gamers cause of the fact that the game is intangible (has no physical essence, isnt real etc).
But if this happen anywhere else, it would be an outrage. Take the stock market for example, say some company like Kleenex drastically goes up in stock value and some investors get really rich... or that too many companies are worth too little with the current system and people are cashing in on their stocks and ultimately the stock market is losing revenue so the people who monitor the stock system and handle buys and sells decide to revamp the stock market and wipe the records of all the stocks that everyone had. Now sure stocks are tangible things (unless you actually get a print out of each stock you have) they are valuable to many people and can potentially earn you money. Also, proffessional stock advisers (forget the technical term for them) would also feel cheated as the new system voids their specialties, so all that money they spent on buisness classes in college is wasted.
Companies can avoid this buy giving a free client and then a monthly fee, they would be able to change the game without a huge uproar because people didnt pay for the game, they only paid to access the game. When you pay for a client you're paying for the game as well as paying for access through monthly fees, and when they go around and change the game that makes your initial purchase of the game void. And while SOE can simply just update your client with new changes after you install it from the cd's, that still doesnt change the fact that the gamer paid for a game and that game was eventually changed. Like buying a FF RPG and having it for a year then having the developer come in and change the game completely, so its no longer the game you bought.. wouldnt you feel cheated?
So in conclusion while its legal to change the game to the developers will, it is as I said before unethical and bad buisness practice..and I believe its only a matter of time till theres some law that prevents developers changing the game so drastically without a majority approval or perhaps a refund of the game. Although if developers were smart theyd offer free months after major updates for the players who dislike the major updates or offering some refund for players who have played for a long time, simply for being dedicated to the game. However this should probably only be reserved for players who have played for many many months, since this system could easily be abused by players who are spiteful and just want their money back after being screwed over in the original version of the game or just having bad experiences.
-Shojin
Just on the border of your waking mind
There lies another time
Where darkness and light are one,
And as you tread the halls of sanity,
You feel so glad to be unable to go beyond.
I have a message from another time...
Axis Eleven
I selected no in answer to this question for the simple fact that I don't feel developers should have the right to "severely" change a MMORPG. As consumers, we have the right to expect that our gaming experience shouldn't be changed in such a drastic way as was done to SWG. Now, I'm not saying that fixes, added content, and etc.. aren't welcome and within the developer's rights. As on-line game customers, we have grown accustomed to these types of changes. However, SoE promoted an expansion (Trials), with promised goodies and features for a certain profession'(s). Then shortly after Trials went live they announce the new NGE where they decide to eliminate all the professions and opting for 9 "iconic star warsy CLASSES", totally eliminating the profession used to promote the expansion. Criminal?, well that depends on who you ask lol. False advertising?, I think definitely...otherwise they would have never offered refunds to customers who bought the expansion. I am one of the many who feel betrayed by what SoE & L/A have done to this game. The world they created was very rich and diverse, even after the CU. Removing the diversity of the 30+ professions and replacing them with 9 classes was definitely a downgrade. Making Jedi a starting class was a big mistake. The combat is no better than it was before and makes me feel like I'm playing a single person console video game, and not a very good one at that. The NGE should have been released as a separate game like EQ On-Line Adventures was. I've cancelled my SoE All Access Pass. It's really the only way I can voice my opinion in any way SoE will notice. The only way I'd ever go back to SWG is if the game goes back to at least the CU, don't see that happening though
-Liavek
OF COURSE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT
ITS THERE GAME, FOR BETTER OR WORSE
Although they should listen to us, it is their right to change THEIR GAME.
Take the Hecatomb TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
Sadly miss:
Fury, Pre-Cu Galaxies
Of course they don't have the right. That's total BS.
I mean... ppl buy the game they pay $50.
Then they buy 5 expansions for $30 each.
Ok that's $130 they have invested in the game right there.
Then the player spends a year - 2 developing his char.
12 * $15 = $180
So, long term players have invested $310!!!! in a game then the developer changes what they paid for.
I just bought a 2006 Civic in November.
To me, that's the same thing as Honda coming to my house and converting my Civic into a Ford GeoMetro after my first month's payment then saying "Hey, like it or sell it bitch"
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
As many people have said, the Devs have every right to change their game as they see fit. The problem with SoE was that they changed the game TWICE against the player bases feelings, each time dumbing it down a little further.
The thing that Annoyed me and most of my veteran guildmates the most was that after the player base saw NGE on Test and threatened to leave if it went live, they went ahead and did it anyway. It has always been clear that SoE dont listen to the players of SWG and its a real shame.
How hard would it have been to set up an in game voting system?
Pre CU was truly a unique and challenging experience (Before i get flamed, i mean early Pre CU, before uber buffs and uber compo armor), only a few changes needed to be made to balance the game out but sony couldnt see that.
Well, I've been playing SWG for 2 years.
At the beginning you could pick your skills from each and every skill tree.
I've been a marksman, then I became master artist (dancer and musician), gave up marksman, became trader (fashion designer), gave up fasion disign for spacehip design, and finally I picked up basic combat skills for those funny hunting parties with friends.
One day, a popup window asked me what profession to choose, no way back.
'Could be : would you cut your left hand, or your right leg ?
Now I'm stuck in a combat profession, cities are empty, major places are empty, cantinas are empty.
I just can see hurried high-level hardcore gamers, that have no interest in partying with me, poor noob.
Anyway, waiting for hours someone to party with ? I don't see any more interest in that.
So many left SWG, player cities are now ghost towns, it's pityfull !This is the result of a major change in a MMORPG, we couldn't even vote to accept or refuse.
SOE said some would left (they did !), some will come. Where are they ??
I cancelled my account, I'm waiting it to finsh and cry my gone firends in empty spaceports
Next time I'll try EVE.
Joond.
Voted yes, WoW do major talent changes almost monthly, eve online is about to upgrade the grafix engine and other changes, other games are old and are overhauled.
however..
if a game is working like the players want it to, theres no need to ruin it
unless its not living up to the original developers vision, with that said original developers should be allowed to infuence further development. its like making a pie, do it half made and let others take over, pretty soon your pie will be something very wierd..
mm pie..
*Cookie powa*
A company does have the RIGHT to change their game in any way they choose. And then we as consumers have the RIGHT to leave their game and quit paying them subscription fees in response.
SOE decided to radically alter their game with no real thought (evidently) as to the consequences of their actions. Now their subscription numbers have plummeted and the game is a shell of its former self. They have hurt themseleves financially and are getting what they deserve, IMO. The amount of bad press, anger by former players, and the irreapairable damage to their reputation shows that there are consequences to a company's actions. But they do have the RIGHT. And I have the right to call them dirtbags.
I voted for maybe. They obviously DO have the right to do what they want, regardless of any potential resulting discontent. However, after almost two and a half years of people paying monthly suscriptions it seems like at some point the "product" in question no longer is the sole property of the developers. But I suppose the truth is that we are "leasing" and not purchasing the product.
I voted no, but after reading some reply's and thinking about it a bit more. I should've voted maybe. Yes they have the right to change certain aspects of the game, as long as the core game stays in tact. I started SWG shortly after launch. I didn't want the CU, but I learned to deal with it. The core game, such as professions and the ability to change your professions without having to start completely over was still there. I quit shortly after the NGE for those reasons. I had a TK/CH untill I unlocked my jedi. Yes I was a dirty little jedi.
But the problem I had was the NGE was more like a SWG2 then it was enhancements. If SOE/LA thought this was such an improvement then they should have just started it as SWG2 and none of the problems they are having would be there. They reason they did it as they did was they knew a lot of people would stay because of money and time they had invested in they characters, cities, and guilds.
Reguardless of what SOE tries to say 80% of the people didn't stay, maybe 80% of their subscriptions are veterens. Which is probably true but when you have about 10,000 people playing a game on 26 (rough guess) servers. That is roughly 400 on each, that is a far cry from what it used to be. Especially considering there were over 250 in the guild I was in (SHC) on the starsider server.
So yeah they can change the skills, or abilites. As ever MMORG that I've seen does to some point. Each profession in every game gets some kind of advantage for a certain amount of time. Then it or the professions get brought up to equal for a bit. It is a vicious circle lol. But to do what SOE did, and the way they did it just seems wrong and unethical. Companies should be able to advertise a product that promise's one thing (Trial expanison) then give you 2 weeks of play time only to change it.
aight, I've ran my mouth enough.
Laters
Balrok, Starsider. Long live SHC
The question is do they have the right to do this. Of course they do. It is their product. Is it ethical or a good idea is a totaly different question .
Absolutely NOT!!!!!!!
1.) Any game that was in development for 4 (like SWG) years before it was release will usually be the best version the game has to offer. To completely revamp a game, let alone twice is frickin stupid and will only drive customers away.
2.) If someone buys a product and it doesnt work you bring it back. When you buy a product you EXPECT it to work. and ... If you buy a product you do NOT expect it to be changed into something that was totally different from when you purchased it.
Add content YES!!!!!! Change the core of the game????? All I have to say .... Look at what happened to SWG. They lost 200,000 accounts on the last revamp alone. Of course there are going to be people that will play it because we are all individuals and everyone has different likes and dislikes. But there is next to no one still playing SWG now and people are still quitting every day. Don't believe me???? Go check out there forums.
The changes in SWG was because SOE and LA wanted to make more money and compete with WoW. There was NO need to revamp the game either time. They wanted to "appeal" to a broader audience". An audience that can't pay the $15 per month unless Mom or Dad pay for it.
SOE and LA can rot in hell ..... I will never buy another SOE or LA product again.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
I am a near 2 year vet of SWG,,,,, ummm correction WAS near a 2 year vet... in my opinion NO they dont have the right, at least not without properly addressing it's costomer base what they think. Now when i first started the depth of the game seemed endless and believe me alot of fun.. The game i origanally bought was called SWG an empire devided,,,, what u see on now is a completely different game.... Mr. Torres outta be thrown in jabbas rancor pit, for destroying what was probablly the best MMO ever created.. I think the reason most of the "THOUSANDS" of Vets was n0ot just because we were forced to pay to play a game different from the one we all built our charecters from.. and Torres sayin take it or leave it...
O yea and 10's of thousands of old school vets beged n signed a pitition for an old classic server on the forums...It was really sad for us over 80% of the player base was completely ignored.. I am suprissed he even still has a job after the $$$$$$ he is loseing for this cluster -_-_-....
O dont get me wrong the game is alot of fun now if your 10 years old.................
Hialot Weedmax
Jedi Knight of Naritus
leader of Real Imperial Power
rest in peace SWG i miss u greatly
I wimped out and voted maybe yes/no. I can agree that it is the companies right to change anything about the game they want, BUT they shouldn't expect anyone who has spent countless hours being a loyal player to just shrug their shoulders and say ok, even tho you basically destroyed everything I've worked toward, I'm ok with it. I basically went thru this with AC over the course of many monthly updates and changes that continued to nerf the system and finally said enough was enough and quit playing and sent them an email letting them know why I quit.
So yes they have the right, but that doesn't mean beans to the people who are putting in a lot of time playing "their" game.
I agree with you that they can do what ever they want to their car to sell it ,but what soe did was basicly go to your garage and take back the car that you brought of them and but a new engine it in and then say its tough if you dont like it its our car.