I don't back ideas unless there is a payoff. Playing an early alpha/beta of some game in development is not a payoff to me. I prefer to purchase finished products.
That is a valid and logical approach, given you are either not part of the target audience of this MMORPG, or know no better.
To those of us whom are considered old timers or nostalgic however, we see the way the industry has gone, while remembering the way we thought the genre would move, while watching that same genre be wiped off the map and replaced by another genre, while recognizing the way the genre is still moving.
To us, this is about a chance we are willing to take, because there are no alternatives we see to move the genre back on the map. This means backing indie companies (and Pantheon is not the only one), some of which are completely unknown prior to recently.
I think I can speak for many that are willing to take the chance to back these "old school" indie companies when I say, "I am not necessarily the gambling type, but to not take a chance with a few hundred bucks, is more of a chance I will never see the genre I enjoyed ever again."
Lets say you have a jazz trio. You don't look around at the market and say "hey heavy metal is much bigger, lets turn our jazz trio into a heavy metal band." If you love acoustic jazz and you know good acoustic jazz when you hear it, and you've been successful at it before, but all heavy metal sounds the same to you then I guarantee you your heavy metal band will be one of the worst heavy metal band ever. So what do you do? You look around at the market (or the record company does,) and make a conservative estimate of the market size and write a business plan that proves (or fails to prove) your jazz trio will be economically viable. If it is yu move forward/
Same thing with an MMORPG, if you've made a successful MMORPG before, based on certain principals, and you love those MMORPGs and you know a good one when you play it, but mass market MMORPGs like Wow just all seem the same to you, then if you try to make one it's going to be one of the worst MMORPGs ever. So what do you do? You look at what your strengths are, in terms of making what you think will be amazing, then you write a business plan that proves (or fails to prove) it can make money. If it can make money then you stick to your business plan. The last thing you do is abandon those principals and go make something that you're not wild about just because there are more bucks there, because I guarantee you other people won't like it either.
Businesses are always focused on money, or at least they should be. the fallacy is thinking there's only one way to make money and that's to target the mainstream. All small businesses know this. They have business plans that target a niche, with specific ways they can capitalize on their strengths. In entertainment it's an entirely different model because you and your backers have to first trust that you are good at doing what your plan says you're going to do. Good luck trying to convince someone to back your heavy metal band if your strength is acoustic jazz, and good luck convincing a backer you can steal market share from Blizzard by attacking their strengths if your strengths lie elsewhere.
I don't back ideas unless there is a payoff. Playing an early alpha/beta of some game in development is not a payoff to me. I prefer to purchase finished products.
Winner.
I will "back" Pantheon when it finally releases and there is an actual game to play that is both good, and fully functional on the technical side.
And not before.
Why should anyone give 2 cents to "support" this game, lacking an actual game or plan to make the same?
Make no mistake: any "support" going to this game right now is not going to make the actual game, but to produce a demo or prototype to try to get a real investor.
Lacking that, no game will ever see the light of day in any reasonable form.
I don't back ideas unless there is a payoff. Playing an early alpha/beta of some game in development is not a payoff to me. I prefer to purchase finished products.
Winner.
I will "back" Pantheon when it finally releases and there is an actual game to play that is both good, and fully functional on the technical side.
And not before.
Why should anyone give 2 cents to "support" this game, lacking an actual game or plan to make the same?
Make no mistake: any "support" going to this game right now is not going to make the actual game, but to produce a demo or prototype to try to get a real investor.
Lacking that, no game will ever see the light of day in any reasonable form.
The devs have said as much.
People seem to forget that.
Misinformation.
The "prototype" is actually part of the game, not an isolated project as you depict. The low level areas and classes they will make available for testing and demonstration purposes will not display everything they've created or designed.
There is also a very well defined plan, so claiming there isn't one is nothing short of dishonesty.
I don't back ideas unless there is a payoff. Playing an early alpha/beta of some game in development is not a payoff to me. I prefer to purchase finished products.
Winner.
I will "back" Pantheon when it finally releases and there is an actual game to play that is both good, and fully functional on the technical side.
And not before.
Why should anyone give 2 cents to "support" this game, lacking an actual game or plan to make the same?
Make no mistake: any "support" going to this game right now is not going to make the actual game, but to produce a demo or prototype to try to get a real investor.
Lacking that, no game will ever see the light of day in any reasonable form.
The devs have said as much.
People seem to forget that.
Misinformation.
The "prototype" is actually part of the game, not an isolated project as you depict. The low level areas and classes they will make available for testing and demonstration purposes will not display everything they've created or designed.
There is also a very well defined plan, so claiming there isn't one is nothing short of dishonesty.
This is everything that is wrong with Video Game Developers in 2015. They may have a "plan", but that plan is to get as much money as they can from people before even proving that they can release a complete game. What's the point of a prototype if not to get interest from investors? And what do all these "backers" get for giving money to create a prototype if the prototype isn't interesting or doesn't attract any investors?
All you have to do is look at projects like Goblin Works failed attempt at PFO or the complete dud that was Greed Monger, among hundreds of other projects, to realize that this isn't a sustainable business model.
I don't back ideas unless there is a payoff. Playing an early alpha/beta of some game in development is not a payoff to me. I prefer to purchase finished products.
Winner.
I will "back" Pantheon when it finally releases and there is an actual game to play that is both good, and fully functional on the technical side.
And not before.
Why should anyone give 2 cents to "support" this game, lacking an actual game or plan to make the same?
Make no mistake: any "support" going to this game right now is not going to make the actual game, but to produce a demo or prototype to try to get a real investor.
Lacking that, no game will ever see the light of day in any reasonable form.
The devs have said as much.
People seem to forget that.
Misinformation.
The "prototype" is actually part of the game, not an isolated project as you depict. The low level areas and classes they will make available for testing and demonstration purposes will not display everything they've created or designed.
There is also a very well defined plan, so claiming there isn't one is nothing short of dishonesty.
Perhaps I will need to use smaller words.
Pay now = "demo".
No investor interest in demo = no game released.
Pay for demo =/= pay for and get released game.
So why should anyone pay and not get a game, when the devs are not even using the money to get a game to release?
Like I said, this game will get my (and a lot of other peoples') money after the game releases, and not a minute sooner.
This is everything that is wrong with Video Game Developers in 2015. They may have a "plan", but that plan is to get as much money as they can from people before even proving that they can release a complete game.
You say it like it's a bad thing. When attracting investment it's almost always the plan to attract as much money as you can get (within reason.) Because it increases your chances of making a good game. When SOE invested in EQ or Microsoft in Vanguard do you think they didn't know the developers were trying to get as much money as they could? You do realize, you paid for that investment in higher product prices from SOE and Microsoft. And in that case you had zero control and zero real information on the state of the "prototype."
No video game would ever get made if they had to prove they could
release a complete game before they could get a single penny to pay the
people who develop that complete game.
This is everything that is wrong with Video Game Developers in 2015. They may have a "plan", but that plan is to get as much money as they can from people before even proving that they can release a complete game.
You say it like it's a bad thing. When attracting investment it's almost always the plan to attract as much money as you can get (within reason.) Because it increases your chances of making a good game. When SOE invested in EQ or Microsoft in Vanguard do you think they didn't know the developers were trying to get as much money as they could? You do realize, you paid for that investment in higher product prices from SOE and Microsoft. And in that case you had zero control and zero real information on the state of the "prototype."
No video game would ever get made if they had to prove they could
release a complete game before they could get a single penny to pay the
people who develop that complete game.
As a customer, that isn't my problem.
I don't care "how the sausage gets made", that is what the developers are in business for. And how some developer gets funding is not my problem.
I care that when I pay the money, I get the product I paid for.
Which is exactly what is not happening with "crowdfunding" in regards to MMOs, and with Pantheon in particular: anything people have paid up to this point has only gone to making a demo, in the hopes of getting an investor. No investor, no game.
This is everything that is wrong with Video Game Developers in 2015. They may have a "plan", but that plan is to get as much money as they can from people before even proving that they can release a complete game.
You say it like it's a bad thing. When attracting investment it's almost always the plan to attract as much money as you can get (within reason.) Because it increases your chances of making a good game. When SOE invested in EQ or Microsoft in Vanguard do you think they didn't know the developers were trying to get as much money as they could? You do realize, you paid for that investment in higher product prices from SOE and Microsoft. And in that case you had zero control and zero real information on the state of the "prototype."
No video game would ever get made if they had to prove they could
release a complete game before they could get a single penny to pay the
people who develop that complete game.
As a customer, that isn't my problem.
I don't care "how the sausage gets made", that is what the developers are in business for. And how some developer gets funding is not my problem.
I care that when I pay the money, I get the product I paid for.
Which is exactly what is not happening with "crowdfunding" in regards to MMOs, and with Pantheon in particular: anything people have paid up to this point has only gone to making a demo, in the hopes of getting an investor. No investor, no game.
And people should pay for that why?
EXACTLY!
YOU do not care how the game gets made, but YOU =/= EVERYONE. At least some of us would prefer to chip in something toward an MMORPG we know we will have more of a chance to enjoy then the CRAP that is currently available... to chip in something toward an MMORPG that then gains more of a chance to be made with our support than without. IT IS a risk, but one WE see as worth taking.
So why make such a stand against people taking that chance? Some other nonsense you are not stating?
Crowdfunding can work just fine for MMORPGs... take a look at Project Gorgon.
YOU should not pay to support Pantheon. However, those whom recognize the very few opportunities at the moment to potentially get an MMORPG worth playing, WE should.
This is everything that is wrong with Video Game Developers in 2015. They may have a "plan", but that plan is to get as much money as they can from people before even proving that they can release a complete game.
You say it like it's a bad thing. When attracting investment it's almost always the plan to attract as much money as you can get (within reason.) Because it increases your chances of making a good game. When SOE invested in EQ or Microsoft in Vanguard do you think they didn't know the developers were trying to get as much money as they could? You do realize, you paid for that investment in higher product prices from SOE and Microsoft. And in that case you had zero control and zero real information on the state of the "prototype."
No video game would ever get made if they had to prove they could
release a complete game before they could get a single penny to pay the
people who develop that complete game.
As a customer, that isn't my problem.
I don't care "how the sausage gets made", that is what the developers are in business for. And how some developer gets funding is not my problem.
I care that when I pay the money, I get the product I paid for.
Which is exactly what is not happening with "crowdfunding" in regards to MMOs, and with Pantheon in particular: anything people have paid up to this point has only gone to making a demo, in the hopes of getting an investor. No investor, no game.
And people should pay for that why?
EXACTLY!
YOU do not care how the game gets made, but YOU =/= EVERYONE. At least some of us would prefer to chip in something toward an MMORPG we know we will have more of a chance to enjoy then the CRAP that is currently available... to chip in something toward an MMORPG that then gains more of a chance to be made with our support than without. IT IS a risk, but one WE see as worth taking.
So why make such a stand against people taking that chance? Some other nonsense you are not stating?
Crowdfunding can work just fine for MMORPGs... take a look at Project Gorgon.
YOU should not pay to support Pantheon. However, those whom recognize the very few opportunities at the moment to potentially get an MMORPG worth playing, WE should.
If you want to support game development, then become an investor and give your money to as many projects as you want. But don't fool yourself into thinking that Crowdfunding is the same as investing, or that you have any say at all in what the money you give to these projects is used for.
Crowdfunding is a savvy way for people to blur the lines of risk vs reward. Developers are either smart enough to realize that they can get your money at almost no risk to them, or they are deluded enough to think that your money is needed because no serious investor would risk funding them.
And what do you get for taking that risk instead? A t-shirt? A promise of a specific feature? A "chance" that the developer might have a game someday that you can spend more of your money to buy from them?
Brad has used up all the trust currency with me. I have no ill will towards him, but this time he will have to produce a fun and complete game. At THAT point I will be happy to buy it!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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Brad has used up all the trust currency with me. I have no ill will towards him, but this time he will have to produce a fun and complete game. At THAT point I will be happy to buy it!
What he said, but in all capitals and in eye searing neon letters, that are also on fire.
I don't care "how the sausage gets made", that is what the developers are in business for. And how some developer gets funding is not my problem.
I care that when I pay the money, I get the product I paid for.
Which is exactly what is not happening with "crowdfunding" in regards to MMOs, and with Pantheon in particular: anything people have paid up to this point has only gone to making a demo, in the hopes of getting an investor. No investor, no game.
And people should pay for that why?
I totally get your perspective. However, I think it's a basic problem with crowdfunding. The basic idea, IMHO is to put the everyday person in the role of funding a project, which means you are an investor, not a customer. That's just my take. At the very least it blurs the line between customer and investor. And companies are not innocent either, they don't treat you like a partner or an investor, or a customer either.
I could not ever see myself participating in any crowdfunding effort as they currently exist. Now, crowdfunding is essentially charity, and the person giving the money has no expectation for the money. If the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission for those who might be overcome with commencement of the collegiate form of Americanized football and may be thinking of another SEC) were involved, then I might consider.
I'd rather support actual charities like Red Cross, Alley Cat Allies or Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I don't care "how the sausage gets made", that is what the developers are in business for. And how some developer gets funding is not my problem.
I care that when I pay the money, I get the product I paid for.
Which is exactly what is not happening with "crowdfunding" in regards to MMOs, and with Pantheon in particular: anything people have paid up to this point has only gone to making a demo, in the hopes of getting an investor. No investor, no game.
And people should pay for that why?
I totally get your perspective. However, I think it's a basic problem with crowdfunding. The basic idea, IMHO is to put the everyday person in the role of funding a project, which means you are an investor, not a customer. That's just my take. At the very least it blurs the line between customer and investor. And companies are not innocent either, they don't treat you like a partner or an investor, or a customer either.
And that is a big misconception people have: when you do some sort of crowdfunding, you are most certainly NOT an investor.
When you invest in something, you get something for your money: a share of stock, rights to a percentage of income, or some other financial instrument, and after that certain legal rights attach, to the invested money, and the company taking it. With crowdfunding, you get none of that: the company gets all of the money, and no responsibility to a "stockholder". Thus, when McQuaid pocketed the $45k from development funds last year, he was not breaking any law because it was "donated" and not invested.
If anything, consumer protection law is starting to consider people that back crowdfunded efforts "customers", with the rights that attach that way.
There have already been several lawsuits / cases brought by the government for people committing overt fraud, and "customer rights" were a centerpiece of the legal arguments.
It comes down to either being a "donor" or a "customer", and it depends what promises are made to actually deliver a product. "Investor" never enters into it.
I could not ever see myself participating in any crowdfunding effort as they currently exist. Now, crowdfunding is essentially charity, and the person giving the money has no expectation for the money. If the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission for those who might be overcome with commencement of the collegiate form of Americanized football and may be thinking of another SEC) were involved, then I might consider.
I'd rather support actual charities like Red Cross, Alley Cat Allies or Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind.
I would have so much more confidence in crowdfunding if it was like micro investing (wait that's already a different thing, maybe nano investing) where I actually owned a tiny part of the game/company rather than getting promised a T-shirt or some in game fluff for a game that won't be ready for years.
I am an investor though. I am investing in the chance of a game that I'd like to play.
Since the early MMOs, playing them has been my favorite past time. However, in recent years none have been worth playing in my opinion. They went in a completely different direction. To me, the mere chance of having another real MMO is worth the risk of a few bucks. From the progress we've seen this year, I believe after they reach the next milestone their chances of getting a big investor will be high.
There also seems to be an assumption that they haven't received other additional funding. From what they claim, they will continue making this game until its finished. Whether its sooner (with more development money), or later (without big investors).
I am an investor though. I am investing in the chance of a game that I'd like to play.
Since the early MMOs, playing them has been my favorite past time. However, in recent years none have been worth playing in my opinion. They went in a completely different direction. To me, the mere chance of having another real MMO is worth the risk of a few bucks. From the progress we've seen this year, I believe after they reach the next milestone their chances of getting a big investor will be high.
There also seems to be an assumption that they haven't received other additional funding. From what they claim, they will continue making this game until its finished. Whether its sooner (with more development money), or later (without big investors).
No, you're really not an investor. You're far more like someone making a charitable donation. Only in this case you donated your money to a for profit venture hoping that someday they'll make a product you want to buy.
Not that I don't understand where you're coming from. My point is more that making backers real investors would add a layer of accountability to the current Kickstarter scene.
I'll agree that it looks like they've found some funding. In fact they seem to be making suspiciously fast progress. I almost wonder if they actually found a big investor (or at least a medium investor) some time ago.
I am an investor though. I am investing in the chance of a game that I'd like to play.
Since the early MMOs, playing them has been my favorite past time. However, in recent years none have been worth playing in my opinion. They went in a completely different direction. To me, the mere chance of having another real MMO is worth the risk of a few bucks. From the progress we've seen this year, I believe after they reach the next milestone their chances of getting a big investor will be high.
There also seems to be an assumption that they haven't received other additional funding. From what they claim, they will continue making this game until its finished. Whether its sooner (with more development money), or later (without big investors).
No, you're really not an investor. You're far more like someone making a charitable donation. Only in this case you donated your money to a for profit venture hoping that someday they'll make a product you want to buy.
Not that I don't understand where you're coming from. My point is more that making backers real investors would add a layer of accountability to the current Kickstarter scene.
I'll agree that it looks like they've found some funding. In fact they seem to be making suspiciously fast progress. I almost wonder if they actually found a big investor (or at least a medium investor) some time ago.
Someone making a charitable donation stands to gain nothing from said donation. Only the recipients of the money.
I, on the other hand, stand to gain a game I'd play.
Needs some PvP for me tbh which i dont beleive pantheon is going for, I just find PvE incredably boring since its so darn predictable.
They will have a PvP server. The details haven't been discussed, but they want to have multiple server types much like EQ. Not just PvE and PvP either, but also roleplay and perhaps an immersion server where certain things are disabled like 3rd person view. Nothing is set in stone though yet, but they are all for having different options permitted it doesn't change the game itself.
I am an investor though. I am investing in the chance of a game that I'd like to play.
Since the early MMOs, playing them has been my favorite past time. However, in recent years none have been worth playing in my opinion. They went in a completely different direction. To me, the mere chance of having another real MMO is worth the risk of a few bucks. From the progress we've seen this year, I believe after they reach the next milestone their chances of getting a big investor will be high.
There also seems to be an assumption that they haven't received other additional funding. From what they claim, they will continue making this game until its finished. Whether its sooner (with more development money), or later (without big investors).
No, you're really not an investor. You're far more like someone making a charitable donation. Only in this case you donated your money to a for profit venture hoping that someday they'll make a product you want to buy.
Not that I don't understand where you're coming from. My point is more that making backers real investors would add a layer of accountability to the current Kickstarter scene.
I'll agree that it looks like they've found some funding. In fact they seem to be making suspiciously fast progress. I almost wonder if they actually found a big investor (or at least a medium investor) some time ago.
Someone making a charitable donation stands to gain nothing from said donation. Only the recipients of the money.
I, on the other hand, stand to gain a game I'd play.
That's an investment, by definition.
Yeah, no.
When you donate to PBS for instance, they still send you some swag, DvDs or concert CDs or some such as thank you gifts. Read "donor".
When you order a car and pay for it, that is not built yet, or even fully designed yet, like in the case of Tesla, you are a "customer".
Unless you gave money to Mcquaid et al, and got some stock or a corporate bond or a piece of revenue sharing, you are not an "investor" in the financial sense, which is what people are talking about when you fork over cash.
You might "feel" invested in the game and the process, and I am sure that is intended by the people you are giving free money to, but an actual investor, you are not.
And telling yourself that you are an "investor", to make yourself feel better about giving up some money for "nothing", over and over does not change that.
Stop letting your personal feelings about a developer cloud an otherwise simple concept. I am invested in that I gave money in hopes of something in return. Not monetary gain, but a video game that I can play.
Investment: the action or process of investing money for profit or material result
Comments
To those of us whom are considered old timers or nostalgic however, we see the way the industry has gone, while remembering the way we thought the genre would move, while watching that same genre be wiped off the map and replaced by another genre, while recognizing the way the genre is still moving.
To us, this is about a chance we are willing to take, because there are no alternatives we see to move the genre back on the map. This means backing indie companies (and Pantheon is not the only one), some of which are completely unknown prior to recently.
I think I can speak for many that are willing to take the chance to back these "old school" indie companies when I say, "I am not necessarily the gambling type, but to not take a chance with a few hundred bucks, is more of a chance I will never see the genre I enjoyed ever again."
Lets say you have a jazz trio. You don't look around at the market and say "hey heavy metal is much bigger, lets turn our jazz trio into a heavy metal band." If you love acoustic jazz and you know good acoustic jazz when you hear it, and you've been successful at it before, but all heavy metal sounds the same to you then I guarantee you your heavy metal band will be one of the worst heavy metal band ever. So what do you do? You look around at the market (or the record company does,) and make a conservative estimate of the market size and write a business plan that proves (or fails to prove) your jazz trio will be economically viable. If it is yu move forward/
Same thing with an MMORPG, if you've made a successful MMORPG before, based on certain principals, and you love those MMORPGs and you know a good one when you play it, but mass market MMORPGs like Wow just all seem the same to you, then if you try to make one it's going to be one of the worst MMORPGs ever. So what do you do? You look at what your strengths are, in terms of making what you think will be amazing, then you write a business plan that proves (or fails to prove) it can make money. If it can make money then you stick to your business plan. The last thing you do is abandon those principals and go make something that you're not wild about just because there are more bucks there, because I guarantee you other people won't like it either.
Businesses are always focused on money, or at least they should be. the fallacy is thinking there's only one way to make money and that's to target the mainstream. All small businesses know this. They have business plans that target a niche, with specific ways they can capitalize on their strengths. In entertainment it's an entirely different model because you and your backers have to first trust that you are good at doing what your plan says you're going to do. Good luck trying to convince someone to back your heavy metal band if your strength is acoustic jazz, and good luck convincing a backer you can steal market share from Blizzard by attacking their strengths if your strengths lie elsewhere.
I will "back" Pantheon when it finally releases and there is an actual game to play that is both good, and fully functional on the technical side.
And not before.
Why should anyone give 2 cents to "support" this game, lacking an actual game or plan to make the same?
Make no mistake: any "support" going to this game right now is not going to make the actual game, but to produce a demo or prototype to try to get a real investor.
Lacking that, no game will ever see the light of day in any reasonable form.
The devs have said as much.
People seem to forget that.
The "prototype" is actually part of the game, not an isolated project as you depict. The low level areas and classes they will make available for testing and demonstration purposes will not display everything they've created or designed.
There is also a very well defined plan, so claiming there isn't one is nothing short of dishonesty.
This is everything that is wrong with Video Game Developers in 2015. They may have a "plan", but that plan is to get as much money as they can from people before even proving that they can release a complete game. What's the point of a prototype if not to get interest from investors? And what do all these "backers" get for giving money to create a prototype if the prototype isn't interesting or doesn't attract any investors?
All you have to do is look at projects like Goblin Works failed attempt at PFO or the complete dud that was Greed Monger, among hundreds of other projects, to realize that this isn't a sustainable business model.
Pay now = "demo".
No investor interest in demo = no game released.
Pay for demo =/= pay for and get released game.
So why should anyone pay and not get a game, when the devs are not even using the money to get a game to release?
Like I said, this game will get my (and a lot of other peoples') money after the game releases, and not a minute sooner.
No video game would ever get made if they had to prove they could release a complete game before they could get a single penny to pay the people who develop that complete game.
I don't care "how the sausage gets made", that is what the developers are in business for. And how some developer gets funding is not my problem.
I care that when I pay the money, I get the product I paid for.
Which is exactly what is not happening with "crowdfunding" in regards to MMOs, and with Pantheon in particular: anything people have paid up to this point has only gone to making a demo, in the hopes of getting an investor. No investor, no game.
And people should pay for that why?
YOU do not care how the game gets made, but YOU =/= EVERYONE. At least some of us would prefer to chip in something toward an MMORPG we know we will have more of a chance to enjoy then the CRAP that is currently available... to chip in something toward an MMORPG that then gains more of a chance to be made with our support than without. IT IS a risk, but one WE see as worth taking.
So why make such a stand against people taking that chance? Some other nonsense you are not stating?
Crowdfunding can work just fine for MMORPGs... take a look at Project Gorgon.
YOU should not pay to support Pantheon. However, those whom recognize the very few opportunities at the moment to potentially get an MMORPG worth playing, WE should.
If you want to support game development, then become an investor and give your money to as many projects as you want. But don't fool yourself into thinking that Crowdfunding is the same as investing, or that you have any say at all in what the money you give to these projects is used for.
Crowdfunding is a savvy way for people to blur the lines of risk vs reward. Developers are either smart enough to realize that they can get your money at almost no risk to them, or they are deluded enough to think that your money is needed because no serious investor would risk funding them.
And what do you get for taking that risk instead? A t-shirt? A promise of a specific feature? A "chance" that the developer might have a game someday that you can spend more of your money to buy from them?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'd rather support actual charities like Red Cross, Alley Cat Allies or Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
When you invest in something, you get something for your money: a share of stock, rights to a percentage of income, or some other financial instrument, and after that certain legal rights attach, to the invested money, and the company taking it. With crowdfunding, you get none of that: the company gets all of the money, and no responsibility to a "stockholder". Thus, when McQuaid pocketed the $45k from development funds last year, he was not breaking any law because it was "donated" and not invested.
If anything, consumer protection law is starting to consider people that back crowdfunded efforts "customers", with the rights that attach that way.
There have already been several lawsuits / cases brought by the government for people committing overt fraud, and "customer rights" were a centerpiece of the legal arguments.
It comes down to either being a "donor" or a "customer", and it depends what promises are made to actually deliver a product. "Investor" never enters into it.
Since the early MMOs, playing them has been my favorite past time. However, in recent years none have been worth playing in my opinion. They went in a completely different direction. To me, the mere chance of having another real MMO is worth the risk of a few bucks. From the progress we've seen this year, I believe after they reach the next milestone their chances of getting a big investor will be high.
There also seems to be an assumption that they haven't received other additional funding. From what they claim, they will continue making this game until its finished. Whether its sooner (with more development money), or later (without big investors).
Not that I don't understand where you're coming from. My point is more that making backers real investors would add a layer of accountability to the current Kickstarter scene.
I'll agree that it looks like they've found some funding. In fact they seem to be making suspiciously fast progress. I almost wonder if they actually found a big investor (or at least a medium investor) some time ago.
I, on the other hand, stand to gain a game I'd play.
That's an investment, by definition.
When you donate to PBS for instance, they still send you some swag, DvDs or concert CDs or some such as thank you gifts. Read "donor".
When you order a car and pay for it, that is not built yet, or even fully designed yet, like in the case of Tesla, you are a "customer".
Unless you gave money to Mcquaid et al, and got some stock or a corporate bond or a piece of revenue sharing, you are not an "investor" in the financial sense, which is what people are talking about when you fork over cash.
You might "feel" invested in the game and the process, and I am sure that is intended by the people you are giving free money to, but an actual investor, you are not.
And telling yourself that you are an "investor", to make yourself feel better about giving up some money for "nothing", over and over does not change that.
Stop letting your personal feelings about a developer cloud an otherwise simple concept. I am invested in that I gave money in hopes of something in return. Not monetary gain, but a video game that I can play.
Investment: the action or process of investing money for profit or material result