I think the way activists pose this question is wrong from the outset.
The question shouldn't be "Do Violent Video Games Make You Violent?" I would say that, if they do--but they also teach you that the violence has consequences--the violence is far better than games which cause no violence and, consequently, can have no lesson about violence.
The question ought to be "Do Violent Video Games Make You Remorseful for the violence you do in them?" And I would have to say...sometimes.
Do you know what game did violence very well? Fallout 3. It wasn't because you were prohibited from killing anyone you wanted. It was because when you killed someone, the game wouldn't clean the floor for you.
That was, for me, a real eye opener. I'd go back to a school I raided a week earlier and see the bodies of the raiders I killed, lying there right where I shot them. I'd go back to the town and saw the same civilians I shot two weeks earlier. THAT was disturbing; it allowed me to do my wicked deeds, for sure, but the bodies stood there as constant reminders of my wickedness.
Compare that with how death is handled in, say, God of War, or Metal Gear. In those games, you can kill an entire legion of bad guys and walk down the same hallway a few minutes later to find it totally cleared of bodies...as if you never even did the foul deed at all. That, to me, is far worse than the violence, in my opinion.
TL,DR:
Violence in games isn't the problem. Unrealistically consequence free violence is the problem.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Well they do cause immature behavior amongst adults for sure. And one thing I have always wondered about the amount of people on mental medicine compared to other countries. For example our society watches brutal violence on a daily basis and there are places where people actually see brutal violence first hand. Yet our society is all drugged up and theirs is not.
It has far far more to do with the social support network that a person has around them than video games. I've been playing violent video games for 20 years now, but I've been playing them with a great group of friends. We have fun, we laugh, we drink, we pick on each other a little and if anyone ever expressed real world violent tendencies, against others or themselves, then we'd talk them down.
Going to the fourm of a mmo that don't put down the hammer make one more violent then the game it self. But most of the time people come in to video game with there own mind set in how they see the world and people don't follow them or there idea in what they see the world as then they become violent.
It's a stupid idea that video games lead to violence. We grow up on it from a very young age. Cartoons are often violent, video games are violent, as are TV shows, Movies, there's a whole host of different entertainment media that revolves around violence.
You're far more likely to provoke a violent response with religion or politics.
More likely that violent people like violent video games.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Well they do cause immature behavior amongst adults for sure. And one thing I have always wondered about the amount of people on mental medicine compared to other countries. For example our society watches brutal violence on a daily basis and there are places where people actually see brutal violence first hand. Yet our society is all drugged up and theirs is not.
I think that's pigeon-holing a little bit. Video games cause immature behavior the same way that they cause violence. What I'm saying is they don't cause that at all. Does driving cause immature behavior? What about Black Friday? Parking your car? Watching your kids play sports?
Sorry, immature behavior is simply one more thing that's learned.
Then, again, you're associating violence with drugs or needing to be drugged. Without bringing out all the NRA fanatics, did you ever think that it could possibly just be the fact that people have easier access to weapons? Sandy Hook was a great example of a reason NOT to put guns into the hands of mentally unstable people. Also, there's really no good reason I can think of for semi-automatic or automatic rifles of any kind. Why can the public even get these?
LOL, no. Unless you are mentally unstable there will not be any issues. I started at a very young age and am prolly one of the most docile people I know. I feel bad for hurting a fly lol.
Please come check out my stream. All the love is appreciated!
Well they do cause immature behavior amongst adults for sure. And one thing I have always wondered about the amount of people on mental medicine compared to other countries. For example our society watches brutal violence on a daily basis and there are places where people actually see brutal violence first hand. Yet our society is all drugged up and theirs is not.
I think that's pigeon-holing a little bit. Video games cause immature behavior the same way that they cause violence. What I'm saying is they don't cause that at all. Does driving cause immature behavior? What about Black Friday? Parking your car? Watching your kids play sports?
Sorry, immature behavior is simply one more thing that's learned.
Then, again, you're associating violence with drugs or needing to be drugged. Without bringing out all the NRA fanatics, did you ever think that it could possibly just be the fact that people have easier access to weapons? Sandy Hook was a great example of a reason NOT to put guns into the hands of mentally unstable people. Also, there's really no good reason I can think of for semi-automatic or automatic rifles of any kind. Why can the public even get these?
I meant legal drugs given by psychiatrists. Our society has more mental problems because they enjoy the violence that some societies live. It takes longer for our children to become responsible then ever before. In early 1900's it was normal for a 14-15 year old to get married and start a family and career. Now you have to ad 10 years to that figure and still many are not responsible enough to hold a decent job. I'm not saying it causes people to murder each other but its a part of society that causes a huge irresponsible lifestyle. You just don't see people like the president or senator playing warcraft.
Well they do cause immature behavior amongst adults for sure. And one thing I have always wondered about the amount of people on mental medicine compared to other countries. For example our society watches brutal violence on a daily basis and there are places where people actually see brutal violence first hand. Yet our society is all drugged up and theirs is not.
I think that's pigeon-holing a little bit. Video games cause immature behavior the same way that they cause violence. What I'm saying is they don't cause that at all. Does driving cause immature behavior? What about Black Friday? Parking your car? Watching your kids play sports?
Sorry, immature behavior is simply one more thing that's learned.
Then, again, you're associating violence with drugs or needing to be drugged. Without bringing out all the NRA fanatics, did you ever think that it could possibly just be the fact that people have easier access to weapons? Sandy Hook was a great example of a reason NOT to put guns into the hands of mentally unstable people. Also, there's really no good reason I can think of for semi-automatic or automatic rifles of any kind. Why can the public even get these?
I meant legal drugs given by psychiatrists. Our society has more mental problems because they enjoy the violence that some societies live. It takes longer for our children to become responsible then ever before. In early 1900's it was normal for a 14-15 year old to get married and start a family and career. Now you have to ad 10 years to that figure and still many are not responsible enough to hold a decent job. I'm not saying it causes people to murder each other but its a part of society that causes a huge irresponsible lifestyle. You just don't see people like the president or senator playing warcraft.
Are you suggesting that the President or a Senator couldn't or don't? Actually there's a good reason for that, too. It's probably the same reason, there was a senator back in 2012 who WAS outed for playing WoW and then dragged through the mud like the things she said in-game or the actions she took in-game were somehow linked to how she behaved in real life. So I don't think that it's a video game thing, or a WoW thing, or anything else. I think that in North America, we've campaigned LONG and HARD for things like animal rights and we're just now catching up to that with human rights.
I know you were talking about prescription drugs. What I'm saying is that on any given day, I can walk down the street and see people, "normal" people, who aren't medicated, doing completely crude, ruthless, and violent things. It's the way these things are propagated. It's mob mentality.
As far as the maturity level of our youth, we can thank parents for that (and yes I am a parent). We can thank people for helping their kids to believe that they're "perfect" just the way they are, or "they can be president when they grow up!" or "Do whatever they want with their lives!" It's the parents whose kids can do no wrong, don't remain accountable for their actions, and aren't forced/allowed to stick up for themselves, but their parents step in instead to shield them. It's parents who got fucking peanut butter taken out of schools, who contemplate whether or not they should put their kids on a gluten-free diet "just in case", or breastfeed until their kids are 8 years old!!!!!! Let's blame it on drugs, though..... (prescription or otherwise) because it absolutely CANNOT be parents who are fucking up the world of tomorrow, today!
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
The argument that video games create violence has always been one of correlation rather than causation. Mistaking correlation for causation is such a basic error that it is only ever as a result of intense stupidity or intellectual dishonesty from someone with an agenda. Video games are so ubiquitous these days that you may as well argue that drinking coffee or walking down the sidewalk creates violence, because some violent people do both.
The argument that video games create violence has always been one of correlation rather than causation. Mistaking correlation for causation is such a basic error that it is only ever as a result of intense stupidity or intellectual dishonesty from someone with an agenda. Video games are so ubiquitous these days that you may as well argue that drinking coffee or walking down the sidewalk creates violence, because some violent people do both.
Fact, you take a room filled with kids and play Ninja Turtles, after the show is over they are punch and kicking each other. Kids who are in their formative years are influenced heavier by what they see then an adult. Raise a kid on violet games, shows, movies and the outcome can be very bad. Now take that same content to a kid raised in a stable home with boundaries on the type of media they consume. Introduce mature content as the kid starts to show proper reason from parenting and the out come is different. Not saying all kids raised with or without violent media will yield the same result. But you increase the chance of a stable mind by what you feed it.
Not to say a kid cant have some level of violence in their life. Like Miro Brothers taking out mushrooms and turtles. But stick a 8 year old kid in front of M rated games and R rated movies, will change how that kid thinks. My wife works in the school system and parent that let their kids be baby sat by mature content are hell to deal with. Where as the well behaved kids, talking to their parents in clear how they got that way.
The effect on an adult mind is small, on a kid in their formative years is a large impact. I was in a 18A movie this summer and I watched a father bring his 3-4 year old kid into the movie and he spent 1/2 the time crying at what he saw. This type of parenting makes me sick.
The argument that video games create violence has always been one of correlation rather than causation. Mistaking correlation for causation is such a basic error that it is only ever as a result of intense stupidity or intellectual dishonesty from someone with an agenda. Video games are so ubiquitous these days that you may as well argue that drinking coffee or walking down the sidewalk creates violence, because some violent people do both.
Fact, you take a room filled with kids and play Ninja Turtles, after the show is over they are punch and kicking each other. Kids who are in their formative years are influenced heavier by what they see then an adult. Raise a kid on violet games, shows, movies and the outcome can be very bad. Now take that same content to a kid raised in a stable home with boundaries on the type of media they consume. Introduce mature content as the kid starts to show proper reason from parenting and the out come is different. Not saying all kids raised with or without violent media will yield the same result. But you increase the chance of a stable mind by what you feed it.
Not to say a kid cant have some level of violence in their life. Like Miro Brothers taking out mushrooms and turtles. But stick a 8 year old kid in front of M rated games and R rated movies, will change how that kid thinks. My wife works in the school system and parent that let their kids be baby sat by mature content are hell to deal with. Where as the well behaved kids, talking to their parents in clear how they got that way.
The effect on an adult mind is small, on a kid in their formative years is a large impact. I was in a 18A movie this summer and I watched a father bring his 3-4 year old kid into the movie and he spent 1/2 the time crying at what he saw. This type of parenting makes me sick.
You have gone off on a wild tangent here. You are not answering the question "do video games make you violent?", you are answering the question "can bad parenting make children violent?" (and bad parenting includes allowing children to view/ play content meant and rated for adults). There have been studies into the latter question that indicate it can.
The argument that video games create violence has always been one of correlation rather than causation. Mistaking correlation for causation is such a basic error that it is only ever as a result of intense stupidity or intellectual dishonesty from someone with an agenda. Video games are so ubiquitous these days that you may as well argue that drinking coffee or walking down the sidewalk creates violence, because some violent people do both.
Fact, you take a room filled with kids and play Ninja Turtles, after the show is over they are punch and kicking each other. Kids who are in their formative years are influenced heavier by what they see then an adult. Raise a kid on violet games, shows, movies and the outcome can be very bad. Now take that same content to a kid raised in a stable home with boundaries on the type of media they consume. Introduce mature content as the kid starts to show proper reason from parenting and the out come is different. Not saying all kids raised with or without violent media will yield the same result. But you increase the chance of a stable mind by what you feed it.
Not to say a kid cant have some level of violence in their life. Like Miro Brothers taking out mushrooms and turtles. But stick a 8 year old kid in front of M rated games and R rated movies, will change how that kid thinks. My wife works in the school system and parent that let their kids be baby sat by mature content are hell to deal with. Where as the well behaved kids, talking to their parents in clear how they got that way.
The effect on an adult mind is small, on a kid in their formative years is a large impact. I was in a 18A movie this summer and I watched a father bring his 3-4 year old kid into the movie and he spent 1/2 the time crying at what he saw. This type of parenting makes me sick.
You have gone off on a wild tangent here. You are not answering the question "do video games make you violent?", you are answering the question "can bad parenting make children violent?" (and bad parenting includes allowing children to view/ play content meant and rated for adults). There have been studies into the latter question that indicate it can.
Not really, the question really is so open ended you cant really answer the question. You could say yes or no and both are right. I was giving context to my answer of yes and no. Why I think its both.
The argument that video games create violence has always been one of correlation rather than causation. Mistaking correlation for causation is such a basic error that it is only ever as a result of intense stupidity or intellectual dishonesty from someone with an agenda. Video games are so ubiquitous these days that you may as well argue that drinking coffee or walking down the sidewalk creates violence, because some violent people do both.
Fact, you take a room filled with kids and play Ninja Turtles, after the show is over they are punch and kicking each other. Kids who are in their formative years are influenced heavier by what they see then an adult. Raise a kid on violet games, shows, movies and the outcome can be very bad. Now take that same content to a kid raised in a stable home with boundaries on the type of media they consume. Introduce mature content as the kid starts to show proper reason from parenting and the out come is different. Not saying all kids raised with or without violent media will yield the same result. But you increase the chance of a stable mind by what you feed it.
Not to say a kid cant have some level of violence in their life. Like Miro Brothers taking out mushrooms and turtles. But stick a 8 year old kid in front of M rated games and R rated movies, will change how that kid thinks. My wife works in the school system and parent that let their kids be baby sat by mature content are hell to deal with. Where as the well behaved kids, talking to their parents in clear how they got that way.
The effect on an adult mind is small, on a kid in their formative years is a large impact. I was in a 18A movie this summer and I watched a father bring his 3-4 year old kid into the movie and he spent 1/2 the time crying at what he saw. This type of parenting makes me sick.
You have gone off on a wild tangent here. You are not answering the question "do video games make you violent?", you are answering the question "can bad parenting make children violent?" (and bad parenting includes allowing children to view/ play content meant and rated for adults). There have been studies into the latter question that indicate it can.
Not really, the question really is so open ended you cant really answer the question. You could say yes or no and both are right. I was giving context to my answer of yes and no. Why I think its both.
But I have never seen the study that shows that raising a child on specifically (and note we are changing the terms of the question here) violent video games makes them violent. There is no empirical data I am aware of that backs this up. My gut tells me it would, as I am sure your gut told you, but gut feelings are a bad basis upon which to debate, and often lead to bad conclusions. Even if, and that is a BIG if, a link were established as a result of scientific studies; how can you rule out the possibility that children of a more violent predisposition seek out violent video games; and how do you isolate other factors like different media or real world experiences?
Now, there are actually laws in place that *should* prevent children accessing age inappropriate content. If parents choose to flout these laws then that is only ever the fault of the parent.
Comments
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"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I think the way activists pose this question is wrong from the outset.
The question shouldn't be "Do Violent Video Games Make You Violent?" I would say that, if they do--but they also teach you that the violence has consequences--the violence is far better than games which cause no violence and, consequently, can have no lesson about violence.
The question ought to be "Do Violent Video Games Make You Remorseful for the violence you do in them?" And I would have to say...sometimes.
Do you know what game did violence very well? Fallout 3. It wasn't because you were prohibited from killing anyone you wanted. It was because when you killed someone, the game wouldn't clean the floor for you.
That was, for me, a real eye opener. I'd go back to a school I raided a week earlier and see the bodies of the raiders I killed, lying there right where I shot them. I'd go back to the town and saw the same civilians I shot two weeks earlier. THAT was disturbing; it allowed me to do my wicked deeds, for sure, but the bodies stood there as constant reminders of my wickedness.
Compare that with how death is handled in, say, God of War, or Metal Gear. In those games, you can kill an entire legion of bad guys and walk down the same hallway a few minutes later to find it totally cleared of bodies...as if you never even did the foul deed at all. That, to me, is far worse than the violence, in my opinion.
TL,DR:
Violence in games isn't the problem. Unrealistically consequence free violence is the problem.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Aloha Mr Hand !
Games do not make psychopathic killers – the society does! (+genes+environment+chance+whoknowswhat)
You're far more likely to provoke a violent response with religion or politics.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I think that's pigeon-holing a little bit. Video games cause immature behavior the same way that they cause violence. What I'm saying is they don't cause that at all. Does driving cause immature behavior? What about Black Friday? Parking your car? Watching your kids play sports?
Sorry, immature behavior is simply one more thing that's learned.
Then, again, you're associating violence with drugs or needing to be drugged. Without bringing out all the NRA fanatics, did you ever think that it could possibly just be the fact that people have easier access to weapons? Sandy Hook was a great example of a reason NOT to put guns into the hands of mentally unstable people. Also, there's really no good reason I can think of for semi-automatic or automatic rifles of any kind. Why can the public even get these?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
LOL, no. Unless you are mentally unstable there will not be any issues. I started at a very young age and am prolly one of the most docile people I know. I feel bad for hurting a fly lol.
I meant legal drugs given by psychiatrists. Our society has more mental problems because they enjoy the violence that some societies live. It takes longer for our children to become responsible then ever before. In early 1900's it was normal for a 14-15 year old to get married and start a family and career. Now you have to ad 10 years to that figure and still many are not responsible enough to hold a decent job. I'm not saying it causes people to murder each other but its a part of society that causes a huge irresponsible lifestyle. You just don't see people like the president or senator playing warcraft.
Are you suggesting that the President or a Senator couldn't or don't? Actually there's a good reason for that, too. It's probably the same reason, there was a senator back in 2012 who WAS outed for playing WoW and then dragged through the mud like the things she said in-game or the actions she took in-game were somehow linked to how she behaved in real life. So I don't think that it's a video game thing, or a WoW thing, or anything else. I think that in North America, we've campaigned LONG and HARD for things like animal rights and we're just now catching up to that with human rights.
I know you were talking about prescription drugs. What I'm saying is that on any given day, I can walk down the street and see people, "normal" people, who aren't medicated, doing completely crude, ruthless, and violent things. It's the way these things are propagated. It's mob mentality.
As far as the maturity level of our youth, we can thank parents for that (and yes I am a parent). We can thank people for helping their kids to believe that they're "perfect" just the way they are, or "they can be president when they grow up!" or "Do whatever they want with their lives!" It's the parents whose kids can do no wrong, don't remain accountable for their actions, and aren't forced/allowed to stick up for themselves, but their parents step in instead to shield them. It's parents who got fucking peanut butter taken out of schools, who contemplate whether or not they should put their kids on a gluten-free diet "just in case", or breastfeed until their kids are 8 years old!!!!!! Let's blame it on drugs, though..... (prescription or otherwise) because it absolutely CANNOT be parents who are fucking up the world of tomorrow, today!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Driving: Yea a little
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Fact, you take a room filled with kids and play Ninja Turtles, after the show is over they are punch and kicking each other. Kids who are in their formative years are influenced heavier by what they see then an adult. Raise a kid on violet games, shows, movies and the outcome can be very bad. Now take that same content to a kid raised in a stable home with boundaries on the type of media they consume. Introduce mature content as the kid starts to show proper reason from parenting and the out come is different. Not saying all kids raised with or without violent media will yield the same result. But you increase the chance of a stable mind by what you feed it.
Not to say a kid cant have some level of violence in their life. Like Miro Brothers taking out mushrooms and turtles. But stick a 8 year old kid in front of M rated games and R rated movies, will change how that kid thinks. My wife works in the school system and parent that let their kids be baby sat by mature content are hell to deal with. Where as the well behaved kids, talking to their parents in clear how they got that way.
The effect on an adult mind is small, on a kid in their formative years is a large impact. I was in a 18A movie this summer and I watched a father bring his 3-4 year old kid into the movie and he spent 1/2 the time crying at what he saw. This type of parenting makes me sick.
Now, there are actually laws in place that *should* prevent children accessing age inappropriate content. If parents choose to flout these laws then that is only ever the fault of the parent.