Originally posted by Harafnir Baff, tell that to the players of Earth and Beyond. One day they woke up, and the game was gonna be cancelled a few weeks later. Any and every MMO has the same end in its future, no matter what you think. They will all end, one day. And when they do, some players will stand there, wondering where their game went. You think the company have some obligation to give those players all their money back? Sorry, but no. They are renting time in an amusement park, monthly rate. When the park closes, they still had all those hours of fun. You pay for the time you play... in advance. When that time is up, you have no right to get your money back.
I'm not trying to explain a moral viewpoint to you, I am explaining to you international law.
If a company sells you an online game, it must work online as advertised. The moment it does not, you are elegible for a full refund anytime within the first 6 years of purchase. Should you be exceptionally small and bloody minded you may even ring the police and demand the retailers arrest.
cf.
The sales of Goods Act 1979
The Trade Descriptions Act 1968
As covered in the above laws which are enforced on a national level EU wide. In the U.S. consumer laws are comparable but contravening them is only a civil offence, offenders cannot be imprisoned and the police are under no obligation to arrest.
At the end of the day, if the company acts reasonably no one will prosecute them.
I understand that eventually servers will be shut down. Presumably at this time the company will either offer private server software for individuals to host, or they will be confident in the overall satisafction of their customers. Should the customers feel aggreived they are entitled to refunds. Please tell this to the customers of Earth and Beyond yourself, I don't know any.
Laws are not enforced when people are behaving reasonably, they are there to protect us when people are behaving unreasonably. The purpose of these laws are to place the final power into the hands of the consumer, not the producer.
We call this Consumer Rights.
NB The Unfair Contract Act 1977 and 1999 regulations is another intresting one for all those people who were thinking the EULA agreement is a legally binding contract. It also covers the legality of changing a lisence agreement without the prior personal consent of the lisencee.
I think there is no question that a developer is legally within their rights to to do a major overhaul to a game after launch, but that doesn't make it right. The real question then is how should it be handled if it becomes necessary. In the case of SWG the overhaul was obviously in the works for quite some time, but the players were not only not consulted about the changes, but weren't even told they were coming until it was too late. In fact, SOE didn't even officially announce the changes until mere days before their new expansion went live and most of the loyal customers had already pre-ordered and paid for said expansion. And I believe it was only released then because some enterprising individual had leaked it to the players.
I honestly think that if SOE had layed their cards on the table instead of simply wiping out months of hard work with no notice that they might have had a much different response. There still would have been people that were upset or left the game, of course, but most of the people I know are more angry over the way it was handled than the mere fact that it happened. Maybe a compromise could have even been reached whereby the old code was put on a few limited "classic" servers with the understanding there would be no updates to it except routine maintenance and exploit control while the new changes were where the developers focused the attention or perhaps they could have announced they were beginning work on SWG2 and letting the current game sit more or less idle in the meantime. The whole thing just smacked of corporate greed and trying to wring every last dollar from gullible Star Wars fans the way they did it.
No. If they want to make any major changes to the game they should introduce those changes on a test sever. This allows them to work out the bugs and the players the opputunity to weigh in on whether the changes are good ones or bad ones.
Originally posted by baff If that same car manufacturer came round my house and attempted to swap my Mercedes engine for a lawnmower engine I would shoot them in my drive. It's not their game. It's my game. I have bought it. They have sold it. I also pay them extra to maintain a service. Tech support, lag free servers and additional content. They accept this money in advance and they are contractually bound to fulfill their end of the bargain. Just like in any other service industry, if they welch on their end of the deal, not only am I unlikely to further use their service but I am entitled and capable of recovering my money which they have recieved under false pretence.
I agree 150%.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
They have a right to change their game as they see fit. However, they also should have a responsibility to WARN the player base of said change. To not push it immediately after selling an expansion. The lied, they cheated and they stole! Had they done it properly, with proper testing, and proper warning, and explained their ideas to the community, then absolutely they have the right. But they do not have the Right to do it the way SOE did it. That was bad business and complete dis respect for all their customers.
Hey! I have been playing SWG since it came out and i loved the hard work I loved the fact the other players weren't as good as me because i played more than them. I hated the change because it screwed up the game. I quit the game 1 weeks before the update since i knew it would be a waste of my time waiting for them to fix all the bugs in the NGE and CU. So i went and I played WoW for about 4 months and yea WoW is ok but the graphics are child like and it was to easy and not worth my time or money. Then I got a email from the SWG newsletter and saw they had a trial for SWG and i was curious about the CU and NGE so i played it. The next day i re-subscribed and was glad i did. SWG might have screwed up the game but it still still far better than WoW. AND I DON'T THINK SOE HAS THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE FREAKEN GAME! I bought the game and payed good money for it monthly and then they made it so some of the items i obtained i can't use anymore what kind of bull is that?!?! Guild Wars sucks too! It is only good for about a week then it gets boring since there is only 20 lvls in the game. I played the game for a week and 1 day and got lvl 20 and basicly beat the game. WoW get really repetative just like most other MMORPGS do once you play for a while.
I played Earth and Beyond since the begging and then they shut down the game unexpetedly and i was pissed because Motor City Online shut down thier game too when i was playing it. Whats next! I get screwed on 2 games within the same year. And i definately don't need SWG screwing up thier game , then having everyone quit so they have to shut down thier game!
The only time I think a game should be massively overhauled is in a case where there is a very large consensus that the game is flawed beyond repair and as a result people are leaving the game due to these problems. If even half of your membership are satisfied with the design of the game then it should be left intact and changes should only be made to improve its current format where possible.
First off, the philosophy that a company feels the right to do this makes me feel unseasy in the security of the work I've put forth in the game. Everyone realizes the massive amount of work it takes to develop a character. To think that entire character classes may be eliminated from a game entirely just to improve upon a developers vision of what they think the game should be makes me not want to play anything that developer touches. That is like boarding a sinking ship expecting to one day make it across the Pacific ocean. A game needs to show its stable in its design and commited for the long haul to earn my time and money - bottom line.
I agree 150% with you anubis93 , you are right on the money! If you think has SOE has screwed up or fixed SWG please answer my poll I want your insight.
Wondering, all the people that said yes, what do you think you would do if you spent good, hard earned money paying off a brand-spanking new Corvette and 2 years after you had driven it, cared for it, cleaned it and polished it up... Chevrolet came and showed up on your porch and said "Hey we didn't like the Engine we designed in your car, so we put in the latest 4-cylinder. It won't go as fast, but it will get you real good gas milage, but one problem, it didn't quite fit right. We had to remove your headlights, so you won't be able to drive it until we get the problems worked out. Also we had to retrofit the transmission, but it too didn't quite fit with the models frame, so we had to remove the passenger seats, so you won't be able to let anyone ride. OH, and while we were doing this, seems your radio stopped working, not sure why, but it's ok, you can still let it sit in your driveway, you won't be driving it much, so you don't need a radio.
How many people would just stand there saying "OK, I'm cool with that." ??? I wouldn't and I won't.
SOE and LucasArts sold me a game, a game with problems yes. But they took it away and made it so I couldn't play it, ignored my health concerns. See I have a problem w/ light sensitivity and the CU made it so 5 minutes of looking at the screen and I had had a flaming migrane. I also know an epileptic that post CU had to cancel due to health concerns. If you checked the forums you would have never seen the numberous people that objected just the same concerns as me. Well you would have read them within 2 minutes of posting because SOE censores anything they deem negetive and removes any posts not sharing their opinions.
They have given excuses after excuse, but the truth is, they put out the game, it didn't have the numbers that made the Executives jump for joy, so they tried to add things to get others to buy in, hence Jedi and JTL. It didn't work. In fact, many people left. So, they tried "balancing" things. Wrong, they still failed to wow the masses and produce the numbers.... Enter CU. Maybe eye candy will get them..... Wrong again.... Result = Mass Exodist and flaming attitudes, lose of Consumer Trust and the downward spiral continued.
All of this is marked by major staff changes in key positions, and at CU, LucasArts finally gets involved. Now I have lost my trust in 2 companies and it will be a cold day before I spend a nickel on their products or anyone that endorses them. Not until they pull off a major miracle and find away for me to ever trust them again.
Someone asked to name a game that if better than SWG. I can name 3 that do more to protect Customer Loyalty than SOE could ever think about doing.
wether i am right or wrong, the thieves/liars/false advertisers were called out by my credit card company, i was refunded for toow, and gameplay from april-nov 2005. i did not buy the game that was online after april, it was replaced.
again, to alter, "enhance", upgrade, change a game is one thing. to totally replace it s core engine is something different.
wether i am right or wrong, doesnt even matter to me, what does matter is thru my credit card company, i was refunded for the toow expansion, and all game play from april-nov 2005.
so basically the julios and smedleys, and any of the late4st liars/fuzzy mathers, false advertisers, and my favorite, the no commenters can suck my butt,, while i spend my refunded money elsewhere.
a major overhaul to the basic systems of a game is only justafiable shortly after launch if the game is flat out broken, which more honestly shows a failure to properly beta test by the developers
the response some had that if you don't like it go somewhere else is invalid since SOE has the ONLY mmorpg in the star wars univers
You have RENTED a game. You are RENTING game time on their servers. You buy a tool so you can rent game time, but that is up to you, what you really do when you start an MMO is RENT time to play on a monthly basis.
And believe me, if you rent a car... on a monthly basis, payed in advance... they have the right to take it back when the month is up.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
Originally posted by Harafnir Mutant... I say it again... You have not BOUGHT anything. You have RENTED a game. You are RENTING game time on their servers. You buy a tool so you can rent game time, but that is up to you, what you really do when you start an MMO is RENT time to play on a monthly basis. And believe me, if you rent a car... on a monthly basis, payed in advance... they have the right to take it back when the month is up.
so you rent a game for a month.
Yeah, but if you RENTed a large 7-seat SUV and 2-weeks later the rental company changes their mind and swaps it for a Geo Metro? Is that right?
Its hard to compare MMORPGs to real life because the characters and the game has time invested in it, and time invested does have a monetary value which is also separate value from the subscription fee.
The whole "rent"ing a game is totally up to the courts on whether you buy the game or rent it, because tat the moment technically you "buy" the game in the store. But you have to pay a monthly fee to play it. And the precedent if there is any probably resides in the bnetd case.
If a developer planned to make severe changes to a released title that:
Changed core concepts of the game
Removed the original core concepts of the game
Causes major system instability
Removed Content (quests, skills, items, or professions)
and there was given an advanced notice of the changes equal to a player's subscription period, then they should have every right to make the changes.
If the developer planned to make the same changes listed above with only a week's notice...he shouldn't have the right to make the change.
If more companies are considering to follow the path SOE has created, a pre-paid subscription plan should not be offered unless the company is willing to grant disclosure to the public.
Originally posted by Harafnir As I see it, of course they have the right... It is their product, and just as a car manufacturer can decide to put a lawnmover engine in their car and see if it sells, a game designe can drastically change their game, and see if that sells. Now... when no one buys that lawnmover Mercedes, since most costumers speak with their wallets... Then the real question appears: what will the manufacturer do? Admit a mistake and put a real engine in the car. Or say all the costumers are crazy and... he has very well kept grass back home now.
Good point, its like taking your 6cylindre 3litre petrol Beemer to the garage, asking for an oil maintenance and spark plug change (because it didn't run so well).
And getting it back with a 3cylindre 1litre diesel engine, because that was the easiest way to fix it. And if u happen to start questions about it having them say: Its better for the new customers (and they didn't even pay 100$ for the game (and expansions) and pay 300$ for months like us. But only 30$ for the game and all the expansions (and get a "veteran" vehicle ontop of that).
They have a serious lack of respect for elder customers, and they have serious issues fixing a system. (they'd rather just develop a new one, wich brings new problems aswell). After trying this fix 2 times already, they finally admit they'll just have to work things out with the current version (rather than going back to basics, the button bashing that happens now... SWG1 u can call tactical compared to this).
The worst of it all is: We never got a "SORRY". All they ever aimed at was new customers buying the game. I can imagine they've put more money into bribing reviewers rather than fixing the game!!
/end of rant, I hope I spoke for some of the elder players
Originally posted by Sago Originally posted by baff If that same car manufacturer came round my house and attempted to swap my Mercedes engine for a lawnmower engine I would shoot them in my drive. It's not their game. It's my game. I have bought it. They have sold it. I also pay them extra to maintain a service. Tech support, lag free servers and additional content. They accept this money in advance and they are contractually bound to fulfill their end of the bargain. Just like in any other service industry, if they welch on their end of the deal, not only am I unlikely to further use their service but I am entitled and capable of recovering my money which they have recieved under false pretence.I agree 150%.
Technically you still have the game you purchased. I do. I have the TE and the SE versions of SWG. THAT is what you purchased. I'm totally down with you that this sucks and that what used to be my favorite form of entertainment is gone forever, but we didn't purchase the "RIGHTS" to the code just the retail packaging.
does my heart good to see the battle still being fought, i applaude mmorph for their continual investigation into this fiasco that soe has brought about.
To answer the question tho , yea they have the right as long as we in the usa have no laws preventing them from entirely wiping out , umm what you call that..intelectual property or something like that..sorry , i am not a lawyer, but glad to see we have/had players that are. so like someone said earlier we have the right not to pay em..or play the game..it sux big time. i was on since release and lost everything with nge. so now i play WOW, it dosent match the fun or potential that SWG had but is safer, no big suprises,(NGE, CU, Patch !0, etc) and now even patch 27 changed things again.
how can anyone expect to keep customers to pay to play , when the dam game , UI, combat , changes every 4 months............. not just change but is totally different. i was a noob in game at start..then again at patch 10, at cu, nge and now i checked..again at patch 27, sorry but lil tired of being uber noob. really funny when a char 10 lvl's below me can whoop my but when i use to be able to take on three of same lvl .
so answer is YES, they have the right. they also have the right to never get a penny from me again..peace out
I also have played the game when it came out and found it rewarding and new. I thought that ok there were some things that needed work and well I cna handle them updating the system. Though when you mastered a class and can have a few freinds take on tons of enimies its like the movies. Now see what they did with all the patches that made the game odder and more cumbersum and the total Jedi tank/healing/uber soldat its just not worth it any more. I bought JTL from my local used book store. 3 Months later(only played for 2 days) I sold it and my core game back to them.
There is no reason to have a item shipped and over haul it that much. Granted the game needs pathces but not universal changes. Learn from real Developers SOE like Blizzard, Relic, Sid Meir.
One day they will leave the sand box and cross the street to the Univeristy untill then. "Wants Some Candy?"
I voted yes. I chose that because it is there game they hold the trademarks, copyrights etc etc BUT with the SWG case I totally believe that at least something should of been said, communication needs to be priority with drastic changes like this a lot of people were upset because this was in the works for at least 1 year so everyone who played during that time feel that it was for nothing. Yes they do have the right but as a courtesy at least let the people know!!
The game belongs to the provider... that being said, they can make whatever changes they choose to make. However, anyone that has paid in advance for the game (a yearly subscription or whatever) should have the right to a refund if they don't like it.
I don't think a player is due a refund of dues for time already played... yes, we spend out time to develop a character and all, but it is always under the understanding that the character belongs to the game... not the other way around...
Would I be aggravated if this had happened to me... absolutely! But that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do it... of course... I'd also have the right to not ever subscribe to another of their games either!
Comments
I'm not trying to explain a moral viewpoint to you, I am explaining to you international law.
If a company sells you an online game, it must work online as advertised. The moment it does not, you are elegible for a full refund anytime within the first 6 years of purchase. Should you be exceptionally small and bloody minded you may even ring the police and demand the retailers arrest.
cf.
The sales of Goods Act 1979
The Trade Descriptions Act 1968
As covered in the above laws which are enforced on a national level EU wide. In the U.S. consumer laws are comparable but contravening them is only a civil offence, offenders cannot be imprisoned and the police are under no obligation to arrest.
At the end of the day, if the company acts reasonably no one will prosecute them.
I understand that eventually servers will be shut down. Presumably at this time the company will either offer private server software for individuals to host, or they will be confident in the overall satisafction of their customers. Should the customers feel aggreived they are entitled to refunds. Please tell this to the customers of Earth and Beyond yourself, I don't know any.
Laws are not enforced when people are behaving reasonably, they are there to protect us when people are behaving unreasonably. The purpose of these laws are to place the final power into the hands of the consumer, not the producer.
We call this Consumer Rights.
NB The Unfair Contract Act 1977 and 1999 regulations is another intresting one for all those people who were thinking the EULA agreement is a legally binding contract. It also covers the legality of changing a lisence agreement without the prior personal consent of the lisencee.
I think there is no question that a developer is legally within their rights to to do a major overhaul to a game after launch, but that doesn't make it right. The real question then is how should it be handled if it becomes necessary. In the case of SWG the overhaul was obviously in the works for quite some time, but the players were not only not consulted about the changes, but weren't even told they were coming until it was too late. In fact, SOE didn't even officially announce the changes until mere days before their new expansion went live and most of the loyal customers had already pre-ordered and paid for said expansion. And I believe it was only released then because some enterprising individual had leaked it to the players.
I honestly think that if SOE had layed their cards on the table instead of simply wiping out months of hard work with no notice that they might have had a much different response. There still would have been people that were upset or left the game, of course, but most of the people I know are more angry over the way it was handled than the mere fact that it happened. Maybe a compromise could have even been reached whereby the old code was put on a few limited "classic" servers with the understanding there would be no updates to it except routine maintenance and exploit control while the new changes were where the developers focused the attention or perhaps they could have announced they were beginning work on SWG2 and letting the current game sit more or less idle in the meantime. The whole thing just smacked of corporate greed and trying to wring every last dollar from gullible Star Wars fans the way they did it.
No. If they want to make any major changes to the game they should introduce those changes on a test sever. This allows them to work out the bugs and the players the opputunity to weigh in on whether the changes are good ones or bad ones.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
They have a right to change their game as they see fit. However, they also should have a responsibility to WARN the player base of said change. To not push it immediately after selling an expansion. The lied, they cheated and they stole! Had they done it properly, with proper testing, and proper warning, and explained their ideas to the community, then absolutely they have the right. But they do not have the Right to do it the way SOE did it. That was bad business and complete dis respect for all their customers.
Hey! I have been playing SWG since it came out and i loved the hard work I loved the fact the other players weren't as good as me because i played more than them. I hated the change because it screwed up the game. I quit the game 1 weeks before the update since i knew it would be a waste of my time waiting for them to fix all the bugs in the NGE and CU. So i went and I played WoW for about 4 months and yea WoW is ok but the graphics are child like and it was to easy and not worth my time or money. Then I got a email from the SWG newsletter and saw they had a trial for SWG and i was curious about the CU and NGE so i played it. The next day i re-subscribed and was glad i did. SWG might have screwed up the game but it still still far better than WoW. AND I DON'T THINK SOE HAS THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE FREAKEN GAME! I bought the game and payed good money for it monthly and then they made it so some of the items i obtained i can't use anymore what kind of bull is that?!?! Guild Wars sucks too! It is only good for about a week then it gets boring since there is only 20 lvls in the game. I played the game for a week and 1 day and got lvl 20 and basicly beat the game. WoW get really repetative just like most other MMORPGS do once you play for a while.
The only time I think a game should be massively overhauled is in a case where there is a very large consensus that the game is flawed beyond repair and as a result people are leaving the game due to these problems. If even half of your membership are satisfied with the design of the game then it should be left intact and changes should only be made to improve its current format where possible.
First off, the philosophy that a company feels the right to do this makes me feel unseasy in the security of the work I've put forth in the game. Everyone realizes the massive amount of work it takes to develop a character. To think that entire character classes may be eliminated from a game entirely just to improve upon a developers vision of what they think the game should be makes me not want to play anything that developer touches. That is like boarding a sinking ship expecting to one day make it across the Pacific ocean. A game needs to show its stable in its design and commited for the long haul to earn my time and money - bottom line.
Wondering, all the people that said yes, what do you think you would do if you spent good, hard earned money paying off a brand-spanking new Corvette and 2 years after you had driven it, cared for it, cleaned it and polished it up... Chevrolet came and showed up on your porch and said "Hey we didn't like the Engine we designed in your car, so we put in the latest 4-cylinder. It won't go as fast, but it will get you real good gas milage, but one problem, it didn't quite fit right. We had to remove your headlights, so you won't be able to drive it until we get the problems worked out. Also we had to retrofit the transmission, but it too didn't quite fit with the models frame, so we had to remove the passenger seats, so you won't be able to let anyone ride. OH, and while we were doing this, seems your radio stopped working, not sure why, but it's ok, you can still let it sit in your driveway, you won't be driving it much, so you don't need a radio.
How many people would just stand there saying "OK, I'm cool with that." ??? I wouldn't and I won't.
SOE and LucasArts sold me a game, a game with problems yes. But they took it away and made it so I couldn't play it, ignored my health concerns. See I have a problem w/ light sensitivity and the CU made it so 5 minutes of looking at the screen and I had had a flaming migrane. I also know an epileptic that post CU had to cancel due to health concerns. If you checked the forums you would have never seen the numberous people that objected just the same concerns as me. Well you would have read them within 2 minutes of posting because SOE censores anything they deem negetive and removes any posts not sharing their opinions.
They have given excuses after excuse, but the truth is, they put out the game, it didn't have the numbers that made the Executives jump for joy, so they tried to add things to get others to buy in, hence Jedi and JTL. It didn't work. In fact, many people left. So, they tried "balancing" things. Wrong, they still failed to wow the masses and produce the numbers.... Enter CU. Maybe eye candy will get them..... Wrong again.... Result = Mass Exodist and flaming attitudes, lose of Consumer Trust and the downward spiral continued.
All of this is marked by major staff changes in key positions, and at CU, LucasArts finally gets involved. Now I have lost my trust in 2 companies and it will be a cold day before I spend a nickel on their products or anyone that endorses them. Not until they pull off a major miracle and find away for me to ever trust them again.
Someone asked to name a game that if better than SWG. I can name 3 that do more to protect Customer Loyalty than SOE could ever think about doing.
wether i am right or wrong, the thieves/liars/false advertisers were called out by my credit card company, i was refunded for toow, and gameplay from april-nov 2005. i did not buy the game that was online after april, it was replaced.
feels good to spend my refunded money elsewhere
again, to alter, "enhance", upgrade, change a game is one thing. to totally replace it s core engine is something different.
wether i am right or wrong, doesnt even matter to me, what does matter is thru my credit card company, i was refunded for the toow expansion, and all game play from april-nov 2005.
so basically the julios and smedleys, and any of the late4st liars/fuzzy mathers, false advertisers, and my favorite, the no commenters can suck my butt,
, while i spend my refunded money elsewhere.
a major overhaul to the basic systems of a game is only justafiable shortly after launch if the game is flat out broken, which more honestly shows a failure to properly beta test by the developers
the response some had that if you don't like it go somewhere else is invalid since SOE has the ONLY mmorpg in the star wars univers
Mutant... I say it again...
You have not BOUGHT anything.
You have RENTED a game. You are RENTING game time on their servers. You buy a tool so you can rent game time, but that is up to you, what you really do when you start an MMO is RENT time to play on a monthly basis.
And believe me, if you rent a car... on a monthly basis, payed in advance... they have the right to take it back when the month is up.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
so you rent a game for a month.
Yeah, but if you RENTed a large 7-seat SUV and 2-weeks later the rental company changes their mind and swaps it for a Geo Metro? Is that right?
Its hard to compare MMORPGs to real life because the characters and the game has time invested in it, and time invested does have a monetary value which is also separate value from the subscription fee.
The whole "rent"ing a game is totally up to the courts on whether you buy the game or rent it, because tat the moment technically you "buy" the game in the store. But you have to pay a monthly fee to play it. And the precedent if there is any probably resides in the bnetd case.
I voted a conditional yes,
If a developer planned to make severe changes to a released title that:
and there was given an advanced notice of the changes equal to a player's subscription period, then they should have every right to make the changes.
If the developer planned to make the same changes listed above with only a week's notice...he shouldn't have the right to make the change.
If more companies are considering to follow the path SOE has created, a pre-paid subscription plan should not be offered unless the company is willing to grant disclosure to the public.
Good point, its like taking your 6cylindre 3litre petrol Beemer to the garage, asking for an oil maintenance and spark plug change (because it didn't run so well).
And getting it back with a 3cylindre 1litre diesel engine, because that was the easiest way to fix it. And if u happen to start questions about it having them say: Its better for the new customers (and they didn't even pay 100$ for the game (and expansions) and pay 300$ for months like us. But only 30$ for the game and all the expansions (and get a "veteran" vehicle ontop of that).
They have a serious lack of respect for elder customers, and they have serious issues fixing a system. (they'd rather just develop a new one, wich brings new problems aswell). After trying this fix 2 times already, they finally admit they'll just have to work things out with the current version (rather than going back to basics, the button bashing that happens now... SWG1 u can call tactical compared to this).
The worst of it all is: We never got a "SORRY". All they ever aimed at was new customers buying the game. I can imagine they've put more money into bribing reviewers rather than fixing the game!!
/end of rant, I hope I spoke for some of the elder players
Technically you still have the game you purchased. I do. I have the TE and the SE versions of SWG. THAT is what you purchased. I'm totally down with you that this sucks and that what used to be my favorite form of entertainment is gone forever, but we didn't purchase the "RIGHTS" to the code just the retail packaging.
And technically that version of that game that you purchased no longer works online as advertised.
Licenses often say that the buyer does not buy the software but instead pays for the right to use the software. In the US, the first-sale doctrine, Softman v. Adobe and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc. ruled that software sales are purchases, not licenses.
We purchased a game. We don't own the "right to use the code". We own the code. It belongs to us.
NB We do not own the copywright to the code. We may not distribute copies of it.
does my heart good to see the battle still being fought, i applaude mmorph for their continual investigation into this fiasco that soe has brought about.
To answer the question tho , yea they have the right as long as we in the usa have no laws preventing them from entirely wiping out , umm what you call that..intelectual property or something like that..sorry , i am not a lawyer, but glad to see we have/had players that are. so like someone said earlier we have the right not to pay em..or play the game..it sux big time. i was on since release and lost everything with nge. so now i play WOW, it dosent match the fun or potential that SWG had but is safer, no big suprises,(NGE, CU, Patch !0, etc) and now even patch 27 changed things again.
how can anyone expect to keep customers to pay to play , when the dam game , UI, combat , changes every 4 months............. not just change but is totally different. i was a noob in game at start..then again at patch 10, at cu, nge and now i checked..again at patch 27, sorry but lil tired of being uber noob. really funny when a char 10 lvl's below me can whoop my but when i use to be able to take on three of same lvl .
so answer is YES, they have the right. they also have the right to never get a penny from me again..peace out
A lot of people bought the game.
It is on sale in shops all around the world.
Here it is on sale.
http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=search&searchtype=PC&searchstring=star+wars+galaxies&page=search
This company doesn't rent games.
I also have played the game when it came out and found it rewarding and new. I thought that ok there were some things that needed work and well I cna handle them updating the system. Though when you mastered a class and can have a few freinds take on tons of enimies its like the movies. Now see what they did with all the patches that made the game odder and more cumbersum and the total Jedi tank/healing/uber soldat its just not worth it any more.
I bought JTL from my local used book store. 3 Months later(only played for 2 days) I sold it and my core game back to them.
There is no reason to have a item shipped and over haul it that much. Granted the game needs pathces but not universal changes. Learn from real Developers SOE like Blizzard, Relic, Sid Meir.
One day they will leave the sand box and cross the street to the Univeristy untill then. "Wants Some Candy?"
I voted yes. I chose that because it is there game they hold the trademarks, copyrights etc etc BUT with the SWG case I totally believe that at least something should of been said, communication needs to be priority with drastic changes like this a lot of people were upset because this was in the works for at least 1 year so everyone who played during that time feel that it was for nothing. Yes they do have the right but as a courtesy at least let the people know!!
The game belongs to the provider... that being said, they can make whatever changes they choose to make. However, anyone that has paid in advance for the game (a yearly subscription or whatever) should have the right to a refund if they don't like it.
I don't think a player is due a refund of dues for time already played... yes, we spend out time to develop a character and all, but it is always under the understanding that the character belongs to the game... not the other way around...
Would I be aggravated if this had happened to me... absolutely! But that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do it... of course... I'd also have the right to not ever subscribe to another of their games either!
Yumadome
If it changes the gameplay, then it changes the game. And changing the game after release is bad. like smelly nappie bad.