How come spears aren't more popular weapons in MMORPGs?

Vermillion_Raventhal · November 2015

Spears were supposedly one of the more common weapons but most MMORPG have no spears or spear fighters. Are swords just sexier?

Arglebargle · November 2015

Yep. Most folks have little knowledge or experience in anything resembling weapons combat. So it's an easy sell.

Though spears were more of a soldierly mass combat thing. Most MMORPGs don't even vaguely model that, not even in fantasy abstraction.

Daikuru · November 2015

There are a lot more weapons that are not so popular, seems devs are some kind of uninspired when it comes to classes and weapons

Artaios · November 2015

silkroad online has greate spear classes

anemo · November 2015

Because sword users were like jet fighters of the battlefield. No one wants to be the boring line member, they want to be the person sent into a dynamic/FUBAR situation and fix it.

Panther2103 · November 2015

It wouldn't necessarily make sense in an MMORPG world a lot of the time. I mean as a weapon yeah it would work, but the way spears were used you had to keep a distance to be able to effectively use them so melee combat close range like most MMO's are unless you are a caster or ranger wouldn't work well. I think games like WAR handled it pretty well, you had a White Lion which used a polearm and had a pet to handle agro and be able to keep a distance. I play a Dragoon in FFXIV and that's a polearm class as well. Some games have the option it just has to be handled right I guess.

Antiquated · November 2015

If combat involved more cavalry, spears would readily appear to be a superior choice.

Not many cavalry lines in mmorpg "warfare". Can't get gamers to maneuver with discipline, too many Leeroys in the field.

If I was trying to build a war machine out of a bunch of rabble who objected to authority figures instinctively, I'd be handing out battle axes and crossbows.

You know, the "any idiot can use one of these" minimal-training-required weapons.

Swords need not apply.

LynxJSA · November 2015

Be careful what you wish for. You'll probably end up with Great Sword/Axe animations.

alkarionlog · November 2015

well depend more on what the game is based, since most games are based on the old you are adventurer traveling the land doing your things for gold and glory, swords, staffs, bows, dagger, axes are the most common used weapons to find, spears and other polearms was always a military/militia issues(pitfork

), also would depend on waht your army would fight against, soldiers are normally trained in several weapons, also games nowadays like to lock weapon use by class so a fighter would get stuck to swords when a berzerkers to axes, priests to maces and so on.

you can blame the simplification of the MMo for the masses, less weapons choices and you having to just care about damage output is the norm, so for the devs don't matter what skin you use as long you pay the bucks

Scorchien · November 2015

DAoC has a couple good spear classes

Purutzil · November 2015

Swords were the go to weapon in warfare when it came to close range one on one fights. Spears efficiency comes primarily when it comes to large scale battles with lots of people running together in a line. Someone with a spear would be at a disadvantage against anyone with a sword when they can get into close enough combat. The advantage a spear has is lost as soon as distance is closed between the two, which then the high mobility a sword provides will easily outmatch it.

That said, I do wish spears were represented more as well in more games. Swords just have that 'sexy' factor combined with how great of a weapon they are on their own. Less so for 2-handed/large swords, which just come off probably off the 'hotness' of swords themselves rather then their practicality (amazing cleaving weapons but they lose that mobility that gives swords their normal edge)

R3d.Gallows · November 2015

Hunter weapon! Soon (ish).

d_20 · November 2015

Skyforge has the Knight class which uses a spear and shield.

Darkfall: Unholy Wars has polearms. They give more reach but slower attack speed, if I remember correctly. It was also better for players with high ping since our accuracy was compromised.

craftseeker · November 2015

Spears are not more popular because of the "BAMF" factor.

Spears and pole arms were a lot more useful in combat than people seem to think. Sure they were great when used in mass but they were also effectively used in hunting (boar spears anyone?) and individual combat. On the other hand 'great swords' those two handed monstrosities seem to appear in most games. These were almost useless in battle and seldom seen elsewhere except for ceremonial display.

But to the games market those two-handers look super cool and really BAMF and the developers give them stats to match, spears on the other hand are seen as 'ho hum' and are given 'ho hum' stats by the developers to reinforce that idea.

furbans · November 2015

Purutzil said:

Swords were the go to weapon in warfare when it came to close range one on one fights. Spears efficiency comes primarily when it comes to large scale battles with lots of people running together in a line. Someone with a spear would be at a disadvantage against anyone with a sword when they can get into close enough combat. The advantage a spear has is lost as soon as distance is closed between the two, which then the high mobility a sword provides will easily outmatch it.

That said, I do wish spears were represented more as well in more games. Swords just have that 'sexy' factor combined with how great of a weapon they are on their own. Less so for 2-handed/large swords, which just come off probably off the 'hotness' of swords themselves rather then their practicality (amazing cleaving weapons but they lose that mobility that gives swords their normal edge)

And what bout all the martial arts that use spear style weapons? The real advantage is the application, and swords weren't the go to weapon. Fighting armored infantry you used maces as armor wasn't really effective against blunt weapons, axes were just as used if not more than swords, short swords were used in formations where swords could not be used in like roman style formations. Swords were more for where you had space to move around like say mounted combat.

Personally I think it more about animations you would have to develop that causes spears to be less common. A sword or axe or mace more or less are the same animations in that you swing it. Spears on the other hand are made for thrusting. I always see it as laziness by developers of not coding for spear animations.

Tamanous · November 2015

Camelot Unchained: Custom spear animations along with using them with shield. All weapons carried are shown on character. Animated transitions between choosing weapons. Finally a game that treats martial weapons with realism.

craftseeker · November 2015

Tamanous said:

Camelot Unchained: Custom spear animations along with using them with shield. All weapons carried are shown on character. Animated transitions between choosing weapons. Finally a game that treats martial weapons with realism.

Let us wait and see the default stats and then comment about 'realism' but it is a big step in the right direction.

Elevenb4 · November 2015

I've wondered this a lot. I've always thought a good spearman with a shield would be a good tank. A spear for keeping the mob away from the group, and a shield to block shots that got through. It could be a different playstyle all together from your typical sword and shield tanks.

Tamanous · November 2015

craftseeker said:

Tamanous said:

Camelot Unchained: Custom spear animations along with using them with shield. All weapons carried are shown on character. Animated transitions between choosing weapons. Finally a game that treats martial weapons with realism.

Let us wait and see the default stats and then comment about 'realism' but it is a big step in the right direction.

Weapon stats themselves won't make the big difference in CU. Each weapon comes with unique components you put together to build your attacks. Melee also have stances you construct and the ability to build your own combos. The main difference between melee weapons are these components and likely spear components reflect it's logical properties such as longer reach and perhaps the ability to be thrown. Likely the unique skill components of your class can be mixed in as well making dramatically different spear users.

All skills (magic, melee, etc) are a craft skill. You literally construct your own marital art. It is likely extremely hard to determine if spear alone is balanced against other weapons because it is meant to be different based on it's component properties and balance isn't the main concern ... you use your spear when the situation demands it. The game is very horizontal in progression too so core stats on weapons themselves won't make a massive difference but how you implement it will.

CU isn't a game where you pound on a target dummy comparing dps. This is why weapons are meaningless in other games. Their tactical differences are marginal at best when dps is all that matters. A spear in a raid game that is weaker than other weapons only means nothing. It doesn't matter that it is a spear as it is just a bad dps choice against BIS. That is the failing of the game ... not the spear. CU is trying to bring tactics back through choice. Spear will be useful when a spear is useful and there should be no other reason to use it.

Hopefully more games give reason for martial weapon choices instead of "here's the spear class!" ... for visual effect and nothing more and a future of watering down all classes to be the same because a dps race is all that matters.

Sorry for making this sound like a CU advertisement but it is the best example I can give for how to truly make weapons a real choice in mmos.

MMOman101 · November 2015

Slashing weapons have better graphical affects. I think MMO devs like the broad sweeping actions. They probably display better on screen. Don't see a lot of thrusting actions in combat in games.

vveaver_online · November 2015

uo and skyforge have spears

Tamanous · November 2015

MMOman101 said:

Slashing weapons have better graphical affects. I think MMO devs like the broad sweeping actions. They probably display better on screen. Don't see a lot of thrusting actions in combat in games.

Spear animations aren't done because they are in fact incredibly complex and developers don't bother. It is also a weapon best used in formation and on mount which almost no mmo bothers to implement (or properly).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wii9cXNp5M4

Amathe · November 2015

The spears are all holding up signs protesting the scarcity of crossbows.

Tamanous · November 2015

Amathe said:

The spears are all holding up signs protesting the scarcity of crossbows.

I've seen a lot of crossbows in games. The main issue I've noticed is they typically are the poor man's choice against bow so are rarely used. Once again it isn't about what should be overall best but only about what is best for each situation. Tactics will bring back weapon choice in mmos.

Asian games are terrible for this. I cringe when I see a class based entirely around a lance ... on the ground! I can only imagine those into children's anime are into it but I think it's not only stupid but also detrimental to game development.

craftseeker · November 2015

Tamanous said:

MMOman101 said:

Slashing weapons have better graphical affects. I think MMO devs like the broad sweeping actions. They probably display better on screen. Don't see a lot of thrusting actions in combat in games.

Spear animations aren't done because they are in fact incredibly complex and developers don't bother. It is also a weapon best used in formation and on mount which almost no mmo bothers to implement (or properly).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wii9cXNp5M4

Spears (and pole arms) are terribly effective and were used for individual fighting, as your link shows. They were no more "best used in formation" than other weapons. For a more detailed presentation on spear versus sword look at: https://youtu.be/l2YgGY_OBx8 and https://youtu.be/O8RWLxlzTiM

LynxJSA · November 2015

Tamanous said:
Spear animations aren't done because they are in fact incredibly complex and developers don't bother.

This thread rocks.

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