They built a team from only 8 people to 270 in short time, that alone is a massive accomplishment

Squadron24 · November 2015

I found this graphic slide that was shown last month on Citizencon very interesting, and something a clever person will take into account - making a team as big as that from almost nothing, does not happen from one day to the next . Also making a project with a rapidly growing team is different than an existing company with 300 people doing their third or fourth project with that team size from day 1.

Looking at these numbers it´s pretty obvious the real workforce numbers to go full steam ahead weren´t there before 2014.

This really is all you need to know to put things in perspective . This quick team build up alone is a MASSIVE accomplishment but inevitably comes with occasional growing pains as well.

Image: http://www2.pic-upload.de/img/28833280/SCstaff.png

and also there is that:

but hey some people won´t let facts get into their way :chuffed:

For me it´s pretty obvious, I don´t expect the commercial release to happen before Q2/2017 and I´m perfectly fine with that, it will be worth the wait.
At the end it will take about the same time as SWTOR´s development time, hopefully less than ESO´s development time though.

Mothanos · November 2015

I hope they succeed on every front C.R. promised.

Yet i see funds drying up and not much to show in terms of gameplay other then a few modes and a TON of stuff in development.

By now alot of people backed c.r. and are waiting for him to deliver, this is a very dangerous line as people stopped throwing money while nothing is close to completion at this point.

Lets wait and see what the next 6 to 12 months bring, but there is nothing wrong with being sceptical about all the promises he made and still havent completed a basic game.

Fingers crossed as i to am a backer and would love to see him showing the industry it can be done.

Gardavsshade · November 2015

"but hey some people won´t let facts get into their way

"

Fact is this project (and many others) use a funding mechanism I disagree with. You want to convince a person like me your project has merit? Issue Stock Certificates of Investment to the Backers. Then I'll consider Star Citizen. (and I haven't backed SC at all, and that's why)

Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned MMOs should not be operated and funded like some shady charity that pops up two weeks before Combined Federal Campaign starts and to me that's what crowdfunding MMOs smells like.

I don't delude myself... these people that use crowdfunding don't give a rat's behind about my opinion, but my statements above explain why I won't give Star Citizen any consideration as a MMO to purchase/play, or any other MMO that uses crowdfunding either. Even after it's launched if I know a MMO utilized crowdfunding I won't purchase/play it.

Leon1e · November 2015

270 man staff is nothing something to be proud of. You just need money to get 270 people to work for you. And that, thanks to people stupidity, SC has tons of.

Erillion · November 2015

Gardavsshade said:

You want to convince a person like me your project has merit? Issue Stock Certificates of Investment to the Backers. Then I'll consider Star Citizen. (and I haven't backed SC at all, and that's why)

Sounds like Elite:Dangerous - developed by Frontier, which is listed on the stock exchange and therefore sends out stockholder reports - may be more like your kind of game and/or company.

Have fun

shukolade · November 2015

Nothing special if you get hundreds of millions of dollars to fund your project. With all that money I could hire 300 people for doing whatever no problem.
The biggest accomplishment RSI achieved in my eyes is the refund on my pledge.

Squadron24 · November 2015

Gardavsshade said:

Fact is this project (and many others) use a funding mechanism I disagree with.

I won't give Star Citizen any consideration as a MMO to purchase/play, or any other MMO that uses crowdfunding either. Even after it's launched if I know a MMO utilized crowdfunding I won't purchase/play it.

Yes, this place is crowdfunding hate central, you and your likeminded friends must be very much in love with EA and Micro$oft.

Gotta love publisher suit products and filling the pockets of shareholders, because that is what people know and what they are used to, they love Microsoft and EA and their products funded with blood money from stock exchange gamblers, microtransaction addicts and fat moneybag investors.

I prefer a product that is made and funded by fan donations and made for fans, no suits no stocks no Wall Street gamblers no publishers. It´s CHOICE either put in 45$ for the game price or any other amount they like to contribute. Hate crowdfunding all you want, its none of your business what people do with their cash or who they support.

I know people who bought 120K $ worth of EA shares, strange how no one asks for sanity there?
I really hope publishers go belly up sooner than later, the vultures will disappear and go back to doing suit jobs in vulture banks where they belong, they have nothing to do with games.

The special interest groups can rant about the rise of crowdfunding all day long, people see through the agenda. There is no suit investor monopoly on financing products anymore. Tough luck.

Wizardry · November 2015

Well op your making it sound like THEY the business built something,when in fact it was the people's FREE money handout that got those 300 employees NOT Chris Robert's.If he didn't hire those employees with the people's money they wouldn't have a game for 20 years.

I also fail to see the relevance of TIME to make the game.You cannot compare OTHER games with this one because those games were not using FREE handouts.

However since the op wants to toss around numbers i got one for you..

FFXI 5 years to make and expected SEVEN years to break even with THEIR own money.Now that is commitment and passion and trust in your product to not expect to break even for 7 years and still go through with what i believe the most content full game on the market.

FVII took more money than this game's vision and that was what around 20 years ago?So seriously how much depth or quality of game did you expect from this SC knowing it was really only what a 20 million game tops?What have they added above that ...Squadron 42?Do you really think that 2 weeks of game play will vault the quality of this game over the top?

I'll tell you what i see no matter what numbers or chat banter goes on.I see players after all is said and done sitting in a cockpit with very minimal view "character's hands"and pew pewing at other ships.I am sure some will find something else to do and claim there is this depth as Eve fanbois like to think but i just told you what you will be doing and that is going to be 90% of your game time.

Erillion · November 2015

Wizardry said:

I'll tell you what i see no matter what numbers or chat banter goes on.I see players after all is said and done sitting in a cockpit with very minimal view "character's hands"and pew pewing at other ships.I am sure some will find something else to do and claim there is this depth as Eve fanbois like to think but i just told you what you will be doing and that is going to be 90% of your game time.

Well ... you basically mentioned it yourself: "..some will find something else to do..."

I - personally - would like to see the depth of EVE Online gameplay (of which i personally think there is more than in most other games, because its player generated ever varying depth of gameplay) combined with state of the art graphics with avatars and 3D models. That also means using VR headsets and voice command recognition for added immersion. Being able to walk around in my spaceship, being able to walk outside (in space and after landing) and being able to sit in a bar with my corp mates and come up with some crazy attack plans while sipping some drinks. Or sitting in a conference room with enemies/allies/somethingofboth and make deals. Even if those deals mean I shot first.

Have fun

Gdemami · November 2015

Squadron24 said:

but hey some people won´t let facts get into their way :chuffed:

Fact: Despite monumental achievement of hiring 260 people, all that was so far released is what 8 people could do alone in those 4 years...

Vrika · November 2015

Squadron24 said:

but hey some people won´t let facts get into their way :chuffed:

The person who made that infograph lists Wikipedia as his source, and Dec. 2012 as Star Citizen's development date, even though Wikipedia tells us that "The development of [Star Citizen] started in 2011 with building a demo on a modified version of the CryEngine 3 game engine"

So you're absolutely correct, some people won't let facts get in their way.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Not that I'd fault those people. Their job is to advertise, not tell us the whole truth.

Erillion · November 2015

Gdemami said:

...all that was so far released ...

Operative words being : "... all that was so far released..."

Have fun

Talonsin · November 2015

Vrika said:

Squadron24 said:

but hey some people won´t let facts get into their way :chuffed:

The person who made that infograph lists Wikipedia as his source, and Dec. 2012 as Star Citizen's development date, even though Wikipedia tells us that "The development of [Star Citizen] started in 2011 with building a demo on a modified version of the CryEngine 3 game engine"

So you're absolutely correct, some people won't let facts get in their way.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Not that I'd fault those people. Their job is to advertise, not tell us the whole truth.

CR also stated during the initial Kickstarter in 2012 that he and a small team had already been working on this game for over a year but like Vrika said, I guess some people wont let FACTS get in their way.

Erillion · November 2015

Vrika said:

even though Wikipedia tells us that "The development of [Star Citizen] started in 2011 with building a demo on a modified version of the CryEngine 3 game engine"

Which is based on a quote from a journalist, not a direct quote from Chris Roberts.

The original Chris Roberts quote from an Oct 10th 2012 interview is :
“This is my vision,” he says after the demonstration. “I've spent the past year [putting this together] ....

I leave it to anyone's interpretation what "the past year" means in that context. Personally I think he refers to 2012, especially considering that CIG was founded in April 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Imperium_Games

Have fun

alkarionlog · November 2015

Squadron24 said:

I found this graphic slide that was shown last month on Citizencon very interesting, and something a clever person will take into account - making a team as big as that from almost nothing, does not happen from one day to the next . Also making a project with a rapidly growing team is different than an existing company with 300 people doing their third or fourth project with that team size from day 1.

Looking at these numbers it´s pretty obvious the real workforce numbers to go full steam ahead weren´t there before 2014.

This really is all you need to know to put things in perspective . This quick team build up alone is a MASSIVE accomplishment but inevitably comes with occasional growing pains as well.

and also there is that:

but hey some people won´t let facts get into their way :chuffed:

For me it´s pretty obvious, I don´t expect the commercial release to happen before Q2/2017 and I´m perfectly fine with that, it will be worth the wait.
At the end it will take about the same time as SWTOR´s development time, hopefully less than ESO´s development time though.

problem number one, the time spend on development can't be compared to otehrs games, players didn't paid for skins to fund the game development, also games who started rough around the same time are already done with the same way and with less funding.

for number of people working it don't matter, they are paid to do a job and that is what they have to do don't matter if 1 or 100,000 will do it as long tehy get it done.

its ok you think the game will deliver but remember not everyone share the same view and still thinks this game or will be a vapor ware or will not deliver what you hope for

Squadron24 · November 2015

Talonsin said:

Vrika said:

Squadron24 said:

but hey some people won´t let facts get into their way :chuffed:

The person who made that infograph lists Wikipedia as his source, and Dec. 2012 as Star Citizen's development date, even though Wikipedia tells us that "The development of [Star Citizen] started in 2011 with building a demo on a modified version of the CryEngine 3 game engine"

So you're absolutely correct, some people won't let facts get in their way.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Not that I'd fault those people. Their job is to advertise, not tell us the whole truth.

CR also stated during the initial Kickstarter in 2012 that he and a small team had already been working on this game for over a year but like Vrika said, I guess some people wont let FACTS get in their way.

oh yeah, that 5 people preparing a Kickstarter campaign video, setting up a website - totally development! Maybe they should have already finished the game BEFORE they even launched the campaign, because - why not?

Why not add some more fantasy years, let´s say it started, dunno, 2005 ?

Here, have a picture of some straws, grab it while you can folks!

Image: https://media1.giphy.com/media/mmYy42RNrgA0w/200_s.gif

rpmcmurphy · November 2015

Posting in a fact misrepresentation thread

Talonsin · November 2015

Squadron24 said:

You can post all the funny pictures you want but it does not change the FACT that CR himself has stated in several interviews back in 2012 that he and a small team have been working on the game for a year.

"Currently I've spent a year building the tech," he said.
Source: http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/10/10/3483084/star-citizen-wing-commander-chris-roberts

Go ahead and post another cute picture since you have no facts or any real information to back your claim that the game was not started before Nov 2012.

scorpex-x · November 2015

rpmcmurphy said:

Posting in a fact misrepresentation thread

Numerous problems with this.

The developers had no source code to start and build on, no prior assets, nothing. They have had to start from scratch.
It was not a long running team, the entire team had to be built fresh so they had no experience working together. Plus they had to buy office space, pay for computers and all the stuff to make the game.
Star Cirizen is 2 or 3? games being built at the same time, the core game appears to be something that has never so far been done before, Skyrim was a single player game based off their old franchise.
Skyrim had no triple A actors doing voice over work.
Skyrim was a single player game, not an mmo.

You really can't make this kind of comparison at all, it's misleading and shows your bias.

I loved skyrim and I'm not a SC fanboy at all but let's try and keep it real here.

Talonsin · November 2015

Here is another interesting note from an interview in 2012

"This is just Chris Roberts with his new studio, the one you probably didn’t realize he formed last year, named Cloud Imperium Games, and it’s staged in a new universe entirely.

And it turns out Star Citizen is already 12 months in the oven, though we’re talking a long cook — we probably won’t be able to lay hands on it until 2014."

Source: http://techland.time.com/2012/10/11/chris-roberts-star-citizen-looks-like-a-space-sim-from-the-distant-future/

Look, I even pasted a pretty picture like you!

Or what about this one?

"Cloud Imperium Chief Creative Officer and Co-founder Chris Roberts said, “When I was first prototyping Star Citizen back in 2011"

Source: https://www.simplygon.com/news/cloud-imperium-games-chooses-simplygon

donger56 · November 2015

The fanboy posts just never end do they? I don't see hiring all of your family and friends to produce a whole lot of nothing as some massive accomplishment. This game has already spent more money and taken longer than any crowd funded game and most corporately funded games too. It isn't as if the game has a release date or even a projected maybe possibly time frame for one either. When you look at the SC site is says the persistent universe part of the game is still in the "design" phase. So 3 years into it the part of the game most people care about is still being "designed"? You would have to be a real sucker and intentionally ignorant not to see what this project has turned into. It is just a vehicle for Roberts and his crew to get paid for as long as they can without really producing anything of substance. All this game will be is a flashy tech demo of disjointed pieces parts of a game. If that is worth hundreds of dollars to you, then go ahead and keep buying pictures of ships.

Talonsin · November 2015

Erillion said:

Which is based on a quote from a journalist, not a direct quote from Chris Roberts.

The original Chris Roberts quote from an Oct 10th 2012 interview is :
“This is my vision,” he says after the demonstration. “I've spent the past year [putting this together] ....

I leave it to anyone's interpretation what "the past year" means in that context. Personally I think he refers to 2012, especially considering that CIG was founded in April 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Imperium_Games

Have fun

That's funny. Here is a different WiKi showing 2011 as the founding date.

"In 2011, Chris Roberts founded Cloud Imperium Games Corporation, together with his business partner and long-time international media attorney Ortwin Freyermuth, to work on a new game"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_%28game_developer%29#Cloud_Imperium_Games_Corporation

Or this one?

"Cloud Imperium Games Corporation is a game company founded in 2011 focused on high-end gaming"

Source: http://starcitizen.gamepedia.com/Cloud_Imperium_Games

Better yet, google "Cloud Imperium Games founded" and you will see a big 2011 across the top of the page as the year they were founded. But you keep holding on to that one wiki you continue to post as proof.

Herase · November 2015

donger56 said:

The fanboy posts just never end do they?

This could be said a about posts on the opposite end of the spectrum, but I will admit, this thread wasn't really necessary.

Erillion · November 2015

Talonsin said:

**stuff**

>>>>>"Cloud Imperium Chief Creative Officer and Co-founder Chris Roberts said, “When I was first prototyping Star Citizen back in 2011">>>>>

That Chris Roberts himself is personally working on this since 2004, let alone 2011 is not surprising. It is the continuation of his ideas for Freelancer. We are talking about a team working on it ... and CIG was founded in April 2012 according to the CIG Wikipedia page.

>>>> And it turns out Star Citizen is already 12 months in the oven >>>>

Again, that is a quote from a journalist, not a direct quote from Chris Roberts.

Oh come on, people ... the same quotes are being posted in the same kind of threads for the last three years... with the same results ....

Have fun

Erillion · November 2015

Talonsin said:

Erillion said:

Which is based on a quote from a journalist, not a direct quote from Chris Roberts.

The original Chris Roberts quote from an Oct 10th 2012 interview is :
“This is my vision,” he says after the demonstration. “I've spent the past year [putting this together] ....

I leave it to anyone's interpretation what "the past year" means in that context. Personally I think he refers to 2012, especially considering that CIG was founded in April 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Imperium_Games

Have fun

That's funny. Here is a different WiKi showing 2011 as the founding date.

"In 2011, Chris Roberts founded Cloud Imperium Games Corporation, together with his business partner and long-time international media attorney Ortwin Freyermuth, to work on a new game"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_%28game_developer%29#Cloud_Imperium_Games_Corporation

Or this one?

"Cloud Imperium Games Corporation is a game company founded in 2011 focused on high-end gaming"

Source: http://starcitizen.gamepedia.com/Cloud_Imperium_Games

Better yet, google "Cloud Imperium Games founded" and you will see a big 2011 across the top of the page as the year they were founded. But you keep holding on to that one wiki you continue to post as proof.

Well, why not use this:

https://www.cloudimperiumgames.com/about

"Cloud Imperium Games Corporation was founded in April 2012 by renowned game developer Chris Roberts (Wing Commander, Freelancer, Privateer) and his business partner and long-time international media attorney Ortwin Freyermuth. "

Thats the official homepage BTW.

Have fun

Talonsin · November 2015

Erillion said:

Well, why not use this:

https://www.cloudimperiumgames.com/about

"Cloud Imperium Games Corporation was founded in April 2012 by renowned game developer Chris Roberts (Wing Commander, Freelancer, Privateer) and his business partner and long-time international media attorney Ortwin Freyermuth. "

Thats the official homepage BTW.

Have fun

That is the official page controlled by CR himself. He can list anything there.

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They built a team from only 8 people to 270 in short time, that alone is a massive accomplishment

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They built a team from only 8 people to 270 in short time, that alone is a massive accomplishment

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