Gender locking for lore reasons WITH appropriate male and female counter parts of every class and playstyle is fine.
Gender locking because men are warriors and women are healers, is not.
Gender locking 99% of the time is just the dev team trying to save money.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I hate the gender lock as it restricts me from certain classes.
Happily married male, straight relationship, I did start out playing male characters over 10 years ago in swg and wow but within months I had re-rolled and have played since female characters as that felt more natural having a connection to a woman than a man, all take their names from wife's in some shape or form and it just feels right especially when you spend so much time with them.
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
I disagree with direction of this article; it gives the feeling (to me) that Bill is playing devil's advocate in favor of the corporation's laziness in game design. It is just an attempt to coerce others into thinking that since Bill doesn't think it matters neither should anyone else.
I've come around with the reasons to race lock classes like with Crowfall but even they allow choosing gender now for most of the humanoid races. MMO's with an "RPG" emphasis need to at least allow the choice of gender. Removing a core choice such as gender further nullifies the very meaning of R-P-G.
I may yet play Black Desert only because they have mirror classes but I will not play Blade and Soul beyond a prior beta weekend nor will I ever give Tera the light of day because of this lame game design. If people fund these games it will further perpetuate this devolution in RPG game design.
Would Fallout4 been as much a hit if it forced you to only play as a female? No, it would not because it is an RPG and RPG means *choice*.
So let me get this straight. Do you know what a valkyrie is? How about a warlock? If you claim to think gender locked classes haven't been a part of fantasy and RPG's since it was first conceived, you've been living in denial.
Just so we all understand, all witches were simply called a witch. However, it was later decided to separate the male and female version. So that is why we have witch and warlock / wizard. They have also been separated by names such as Sorcerer and Sorceress.
Valkyries on the other hand have always been just females.
Nymphs are another female only creature.
Sirens are also a female only creature.
Harpy is female only too.
If you want to understand how fantasy and RPG work, you might want to study up on mythology which is what a lot of fantasy MMO's are based on.
aaaand any of this makes Warriors male locked and Rangers female locked better... how?
I checked back a couple times and didn't see Nymphs, Sirens and Harpy's as playable races, so that point is moot. Certain mythological creatures were gender locked, sure, ok... non sequitur and completely irrelevant to the current discussion.
Many classes widely accepted throughout gaming as gender neutral classes have been gender locked in this particular game. The argument isn't about Witches being female, its more about Warriors being male and rangers being female, which are just dumb locks.
I prefer to play female characters, I don't see the point in playing male characters even if they are hawt to look at. It just feels wierd to me when I've had no choice but to play a male character in game. I prefer to stick to my gender. So I hope they do not gender lock the classes. I enjoy a game more when I can feel free to play with the freedom of choice on classes, race, and gender.
RPG means Role Playing Game. You don't always get to freely choose the role, and in the case of computer games, not that freely how you play the role either, because your choices are limited.
Sure more choice is usually better, but I can still say I immensely enjoyed playing Geralt in three games.
Thus, in BDO, according to their game legend, they decided Warriors are men and Rangers are female. It's their game, their history, THEIR choice, not YOUR choice.
Is that true? I haven't looked into BDO's lore myself, but several prior posts in this thread say there's no signifcant (significant!) lore at all that justifies it, which would imply it's really just a cost cutting measure (which may or may not be a valid reason for various people).
For decades I played only male avatars and wouldn't play a class that had to be female. I felt that for me to enjoy an MMO I had to play the character as if it was "virtual me". I frowned on guys playing female avatars.
Then I played a game where I disliked every male avatar and created a female. I put a lot of effort into creating an avatar that I liked. To my surprise I really enjoyed playing that character. Instead of a "virtual me", I played that character as its own entity -- specifically NOT me. That meant I cared what happened to it and role played it as itself -- NOT me. Ever since I've played only female characters and have converted a few long-time characters to female.
for me gender lock is a "lazy devs/cheap game" thing, sorry if this sound bad, but from the point of view of a player you play as you want (you think archers should be females, then play in that way), but if devs can give it at least the option to deceide... what you can expect from that kind of game.
im the only one that find archers females and warriors males more generic that the "kill 10 random mobs quest"?
Robin Williams didn't role play himself in Mrs. Doubtfire...
Whose to say what Robin Williams did in the privacy of his own home....
I will say this much, Tom Cruise is always Tom Cruise no matter what role he plays on film. In his case, he is merely changing locale and clothes... everything else about the character is always the same... Tom Cruise.
The way I see it gender locking seems to be unwanted by most players but if the devs give us a no shit reasonable explanation for why they do it for example; It allows the creation of new more precise and unique animations, outfits and customization for that specific class more often, then I think most players would accept that... As long as they actually see this being done.
In the end if you pass up what so far appears to be a fantastic experience like BDO altogether because of gender locked classes then the only one that will suffer is you.
That being said I think it's fine to voice displeasure about it and hope that the devs push to getting out the gender counterparts in a timely fashion.
Thus, in BDO, according to their game legend, they decided Warriors are men and Rangers are female. It's their game, their history, THEIR choice, not YOUR choice.
Is that true? I haven't looked into BDO's lore myself, but several prior posts in this thread say there's no signifcant (significant!) lore at all that justifies it, which would imply it's really just a cost cutting measure (which may or may not be a valid reason for various people).
Males and females can be warriors -- they're just called differently.
Male: Warrior Female: Valkyrie.
The same goes with most of the other classes.
Ninja: Male Kunoichi: Female
Kunoichi literally translates into "Female Ninja".
What they're essentially doing is understanding that both males and females will move and use techniques differently (due to differences in agility and strength) as opposed to copy pasta the same skeleton structure. Not used to this type of detail, people are calling it a "gender locked" game. Which is technically true so long as even one class is such. But it isn't anywhere near the level of other games or cause for too much concern.
The only case where I don't see an equivalent (last time I checked) class is ranger and maybe tamer -- both of those being female only at the moment. With the 10 foot tall beserking guy being the male unique class.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Great article; my opinion is very much in a similar line of thought as Murphy. My experiences in games over the years have left me, quite recently actually, to turn a blind eye to some "changes" with "answers" I and most others almost always used to consider simple, obvious assumptions, or even sacred really. I think we'd all agree that having no gender-locked classes in an MMO is a superior bet, if not the ideal direction in player satisfaction. I would completely agree with this specific idea. However, I know that I am only slightly older and wiser than those precepts, but I've come to realize certain "truths" are only ever hard, monolithic foundations we make them out to be, if they actually equally affect the game in such a way. As such, I still deem gender-locked classes fairly insignificant to one's enjoyment of the game, especially in the long-haul. When you watch a video from TotalBiscuit on YouTube, you may notice(or recall) a thought-process of his in the form of a particular line that goes something like this: (to a developer in question)"if you are going to remove an option... that has precedent in prior titles... then it must be replaced by something of similar or greater value to the player". I'd say that clearly, in the case of Black Desert Online, we got this "replacement" in the form of its overall character customization. It set a caliber that very few games 'attempt to replicate'(I can't even recall any others on the top of my head right now). Large budgets, photorealistic graphics, sandbox features etc.(and hype) don't always warrant us desired features, but when we do get them, we should at least appreciate those new options first before we critique them further.
I don't think Gender Locking is good for a game for many reasons. Some of them are as follows.
It takes away players ability to customize their characters to how they would like them to look. I say this because often when they are gender locked they are also locked as far as the costume they have on at the start. It also makes the game look cheap to see 101 copies of the exact same character running around from NPC to NPC.
Allowing players the ability to FULLY customize their characters is a draw card for a game so I don't understand why games are trying to remove that function all together by implementing this Gender Locking thing.
Many of the people I talk to aren't too bothered if they have to play as a female or male but they are also all adults. I think as a kid playing as a female when you are a male can be hard to swallow (think of what their friends will say at school on Monday if they are playing as a girl :-P ) & I guess that's just the way it is when you are only young. (Don't forget the girl germs & boys smell things)
Personally if a class I want to play is gender locked to a female then I will still play it as it is only a character & often the female ones are a lot nicer to look at for an hour at a time anyways. :-P
I prefer to play males in games, makes it more immersive. I usually don't play games that have the class i want to play gender lock such as this one with the sorceress.
So what are the reasons people complain about gender locked classes? Are you afraid your friends won't like you anymore because you play a character of the opposite sex? Do you feel insecure about playing a character of the opposite sex? Seriously, what is your beef? I haven't seen one legitimate excuse for why gender locked classes are bad. For those saying it limits character customization, I say hogwash. Learn to play the opposite sex and get over your fears, it's a friggin game.
If you haven't seen one legitimate reason you haven't really been reading as I have seen tons. For myself I just can't get into playing a female character. For myself, bluntly I like to be able to envision myself as the character I am playing. Since I don't envision myself as a female, I can't identify with the character I am playing. Sure, intellectually, I can just focus on the game play but that defeats the purpose of having a immersive world like Black Desert offers. I mean what is the point of having homes you can purchase and decorate, costumes you can were to personalize your character, etc if you can't also "pretend" your the character? To me that is the whole point about roleplaying, being able to "pretend" you are your character.
However if you want to get down to basics and talk about legitimate reasons not based on personal preference, well there is one simple one. It is simply a concept called choice. Most people want one. No game is fun if there is only one option or one way to play. In fact if you like not having a choice, you might as well watch a twitch stream of someone else playing the game. I think that is the point alot of people are making.
Finally, you have to consider this. You have two types of gamers. Ones like you, that don't care about things like gender and focus on the game play and others that do care about restrictions such as genders being locked to classes. The thing is, the people who don't care about the genders being locked, don't care. They will play the game either way. However the ones that do care, like me, won't play the game. Therefore it makes a hell of alot more sense not having gender locked classes than alienating 10%-20% or more of you potential players.
Comments
Almost every female class has a male version or is in the work's.
BDO is actually a really good game too. tried BnS was hyped for that & that failed horribly. tried BDO. Got Hooked instantly.
hope in the future you guys do the proper research!!!!
Gender locking because men are warriors and women are healers, is not.
Gender locking 99% of the time is just the dev team trying to save money.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Happily married male, straight relationship, I did start out playing male characters over 10 years ago in swg and wow but within months I had re-rolled and have played since female characters as that felt more natural having a connection to a woman than a man, all take their names from wife's in some shape or form and it just feels right especially when you spend so much time with them.
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
I've come around with the reasons to race lock classes like with Crowfall but even they allow choosing gender now for most of the humanoid races. MMO's with an "RPG" emphasis need to at least allow the choice of gender. Removing a core choice such as gender further nullifies the very meaning of R-P-G.
I may yet play Black Desert only because they have mirror classes but I will not play Blade and Soul beyond a prior beta weekend nor will I ever give Tera the light of day because of this lame game design. If people fund these games it will further perpetuate this devolution in RPG game design.
Would Fallout4 been as much a hit if it forced you to only play as a female? No, it would not because it is an RPG and RPG means *choice*.
Playing: varies every day it seems.
I checked back a couple times and didn't see Nymphs, Sirens and Harpy's as playable races, so that point is moot. Certain mythological creatures were gender locked, sure, ok... non sequitur and completely irrelevant to the current discussion.
Many classes widely accepted throughout gaming as gender neutral classes have been gender locked in this particular game. The argument isn't about Witches being female, its more about Warriors being male and rangers being female, which are just dumb locks.
Also, 66% of 372 respondents agree that this is bullshit.
Sure more choice is usually better, but I can still say I immensely enjoyed playing Geralt in three games.
I've never played a male character in a MMO.
If I am going to be staring at my characters behind for countless hours might as well enjoy it.
What He SAID LoL
Then I played a game where I disliked every male avatar and created a female. I put a lot of effort into creating an avatar that I liked. To my surprise I really enjoyed playing that character. Instead of a "virtual me", I played that character as its own entity -- specifically NOT me. That meant I cared what happened to it and role played it as itself -- NOT me. Ever since I've played only female characters and have converted a few long-time characters to female.
im the only one that find archers females and warriors males more generic that the "kill 10 random mobs quest"?
I will say this much, Tom Cruise is always Tom Cruise no matter what role he plays on film. In his case, he is merely changing locale and clothes... everything else about the character is always the same... Tom Cruise.
In the end if you pass up what so far appears to be a fantastic experience like BDO altogether because of gender locked classes then the only one that will suffer is you.
That being said I think it's fine to voice displeasure about it and hope that the devs push to getting out the gender counterparts in a timely fashion.
Males and females can be warriors -- they're just called differently.
Male: Warrior Female: Valkyrie.
The same goes with most of the other classes.
Ninja: Male Kunoichi: Female
Kunoichi literally translates into "Female Ninja".
What they're essentially doing is understanding that both males and females will move and use techniques differently (due to differences in agility and strength) as opposed to copy pasta the same skeleton structure. Not used to this type of detail, people are calling it a "gender locked" game. Which is technically true so long as even one class is such. But it isn't anywhere near the level of other games or cause for too much concern.
The only case where I don't see an equivalent (last time I checked) class is ranger and maybe tamer -- both of those being female only at the moment. With the 10 foot tall beserking guy being the male unique class.
It takes away players ability to customize their characters to how they would like them to look. I say this because often when they are gender locked they are also locked as far as the costume they have on at the start. It also makes the game look cheap to see 101 copies of the exact same character running around from NPC to NPC.
Allowing players the ability to FULLY customize their characters is a draw card for a game so I don't understand why games are trying to remove that function all together by implementing this Gender Locking thing.
Many of the people I talk to aren't too bothered if they have to play as a female or male but they are also all adults. I think as a kid playing as a female when you are a male can be hard to swallow (think of what their friends will say at school on Monday if they are playing as a girl :-P ) & I guess that's just the way it is when you are only young. (Don't forget the girl germs & boys smell things)
Personally if a class I want to play is gender locked to a female then I will still play it as it is only a character & often the female ones are a lot nicer to look at for an hour at a time anyways. :-P
So when I get shoehorned into staring at desu mcpretty bitch the little loli girl to play a class I like, it pisses me off.
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However if you want to get down to basics and talk about legitimate reasons not based on personal preference, well there is one simple one. It is simply a concept called choice. Most people want one. No game is fun if there is only one option or one way to play. In fact if you like not having a choice, you might as well watch a twitch stream of someone else playing the game. I think that is the point alot of people are making.
Finally, you have to consider this. You have two types of gamers. Ones like you, that don't care about things like gender and focus on the game play and others that do care about restrictions such as genders being locked to classes. The thing is, the people who don't care about the genders being locked, don't care. They will play the game either way. However the ones that do care, like me, won't play the game. Therefore it makes a hell of alot more sense not having gender locked classes than alienating 10%-20% or more of you potential players.