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Hardcore RvR
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Hardcore RvR
Most people consider “hardcore” PVP to be free for all, full loot PVP and to the purists anything less is “carebear”. “Realm vs Realm”, as coined in Dark Age of Camelot, is considered to be PVP’s friendly cousin. It's PVP with a focus on realm/faction wide co-operation. The very fabric of RVR goes against the very nature of hardcore PVP but words and their meanings are not stagnant. Is RVR in Camelot Unchained more hardcore than hardcore PVP?
Comments
Game changes, players get different stuff, the political landscape and battle for Power always changes.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
It also fit´s the "RvR" core concept of a more "collective pvp" type, thereby it ties people together and they may lose something that a group of people have invested in, not "only" losing the equiped item´s / inventory stuff. Love that pic of the destroyed castle..
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If CU can create this environment on all levels It will be just fine.
mmorpg junkie since 1999
CF and CU in a race, who will finish, who will win!?!?!?!
Unfortunately CF seems to be far ahead. At the same time it seems to be a less complex game. I'm still pulling for CU. CF is making good strides though.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
...And all that - as opposed to taking someone's boots off. I'm certainly not with boot fetishists in this one.
When people played EQ did they really care while gaming that they were on the good side or evil side?No players i would think want their own kingdom/realm to rule over.provide those players the ability to claim a plot of land and build a kingdom,give them npc's to help build their realm,if they so choose to not use real players.
Surely a game can easily support 100 realms all run by players.Geesh you could fit 20 in one map.Remember the old KOEI games "ROTK/Bandit Kings",that is what Realm conquering was all about but that was a small scale and on older platforms,now a days we can do much better and with more depth.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They are doing some really weird and quirky things with the classes that I'm not sure will work as they intend them too. Mark calls this his BSC or "bat shit crazy" game design style. Yeah ok, but crazy isn't always the best way to go.
I think DAOC was a great game that brought a lot to the MMO genre, but Warhammer Online was a complete disaster so which type of game will we get from Jacobs this time? I hope it's another DAOC that brings some new life to a stale genre, but I'm not betting money on it. I'll wait until next year to see what they release.
How about Pirates of the Burning Sea?
Maybe some real 'hardcore' PvP and RvR vets can give a few more?
As for that idea of floating away land... this still does not address the problem of population imbalance. Or 'low pop' Time Zones (and low pop 'flips') for that matter.
That map represents a concept that does not reflect the way gamers actually play.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I'll be back later and reply in the comments section. Been a long morning already, I'm hungry, and I have a .doc to finish before the end of the day so I'm a little pressed for time.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
personal guess-timation:
25K sub x 14.99 = 4.5M a year
50K sub x 14.99 = 9.0M a year
Warhammer Online had many cooks in the kitchen and I don't believe MJ was the head Chef, you need to spread the blame around for the initial release gameplay. In CU MJ is the head Chef, if we (the collective) don't like this one I'm pretty sure he'll let us throw pie's at him
A great article by the way.
To me losing my personal gear is trivial compared to my realm losing their resources and the entire hard earned support system. The support system can include bridges, roads, towers, walls, homes, mines, caravan stops, guild halls, guild banks, crafting stations, resource stockpiles and a whole host of things players have invested many hours in.
To me it is selfish to think my personal gear is all that important.
Nanulak
I think the subtext here is that PvP and RvR are two different things. And, while there is a part of the population who will play RvR games only for the PvP elements, in reality, they are missing out of most of the game. I love that RvR imposes multiple, imperfect, imbalanced factions against each other. Our world view, culture and way of life against yours. RvR is more akin to a war than a fight; the stakes are much higher in my mind than any FFA PvP game. Call it hardcore or something less polarizing, I don't care. I love the RvR environment!
When it comes to CU vs CF, I am in both corners. While I only have the time/energy to be a CU nerd I think both are laden with lots of goodness and that's why I back and support both games!
Making their own engine from nothing.
intresting elements ingame like the cube system
1-1 communication with their community
They have alot of exeperience regarding balancing the pvp out..
Finally a good pvp game to look forward to.
Cu strenght will ly in cooperation and group play in pvp.. but i forsee alot of tactical elements ingame aswell like castle building and so forth
the people who invested in crowfall bet on the wrong horse :P
I don't consider a game legit unless it has minimum of 10+ realms better if 20+.All of these games have 2-3 realms,hardly worth gaming for.Even better yet is if the realms are player created,so could have 100+ realms and that is the way a game should be designed if aiming for that type of design.
When people played EQ did they really care while gaming that they were on the good side or evil side?No players i would think want their own kingdom/realm to rule over.provide those players the ability to claim a plot of land and build a kingdom,give them npc's to help build their realm,if they so choose to not use real players.
Surely a game can easily support 100 realms all run by players.Geesh you could fit 20 in one map.Remember the old KOEI games "ROTK/Bandit Kings",that is what Realm conquering was all about but that was a small scale and on older platforms,now a days we can do much better and with more depth.
All I can do is facepalm at your posts. Is there a way to ignore someone so you never see anything they post?
Based on that, those estimates of yours (even the upper one) seem quite pessimistic to me - that is, even with retention included!?
PS Warhammer had lots and lots of good stuff in it, as a rule neglected and forgotten due to it's general tragic fate. And yes, Mark's credibility took a huge hit - ironically, mostly due to an excellent hyping job he and Paul Barnett did before EA launched that early beta...
There is indeed an underlying effort but the devs to design in quality of life on top of an intense RvR design. They want you to enjoy the game even if getting beat hard at the realm level. They just don't want the individual player feeling abused through player level mechanics ... even if killed over and over and your castle is razed to the ground.
More hardcore death penalties (imo) are more important in realistic or hardcore pve games where progression in the main carrot ... you are penalized in the area you most care about. In RvR your contribution to your realm is the primary concern and death is an intimate part of the game. The penalty should impact the attrition of your realm and NOT simply slap the player hard. This is the primary mistake of most hardcore pvp games where death is expected and why they fail to attract players (along with not providing enough player governance over pk proliferation).
You stay sassy!