There's a big difference between using light pastel colors like WoW did to give it a cartoony feel... and going full bore Saturday Morning Cartoon like Wildstar did.
umcorian said:
While I agree with you that f2p doesn't make a game better, the cartooney art design was not the issue.
World of Warcraft is Cartooney art design and we know its history.
I personally hate WoW. it is so monotonious, i didnt even read the quests >.> At the end i gived up because i had to complete the same dungeon 50-60 times for just 1 item.. I never understood why people like WoW.
I also think wildstar needed a Karazhan (10 man) type raid. The 40 mans were just a pipe dream.
40 man was gone long time ago if I remeber they have 20 mans now I think. But yeah 40 man was just a pipe dream didn't work in wow so well not sure why they went with it. Maybe to catch the wow player base that still miss wow vanilla and didn't work out as people want something but never end up doing it when something comes along that ends up and takes hard work to do.
I don't think the people clamoring for Vanilla WoW are fans of 40-man or action combat. My opinion anyway.
Wildstar hit the perfect storm of what not to do. Action combat is niche. 40-man raids are niche. Hardcore raiding is niche. Had the game not cost as much or taken the ridiculous amount of time it did to develop, maybe it could have done well as niche. Expecting the subs it did was the first mistake.
This time yeah it's was for a niche of players but most complain people have of a any mmo that raids to easy, dungeon are to easy, over all games to easy and pvp I away see people want area. When a game comes along makes things little hard and not a tab target mmo people didn't like it back then even now and people still asking for it now with better graphics.
But right now not sure how many people are still playing if there just a niche still there someone in too the endgame can fill me in on that if there still playing now. But expecting a sub when it lunch was a mistake even if they fix alot problem people had whats the point to play if got to drop $15 more to see how the game turn out or not.
Then expecting 40 man raids to go well was a mistake, then expecting people to level how long it took to get to max level was a other mistake. And expecting the endgame for hardcore player was a other mistake when a mmo need both hardcore and casual need some type of balance.
But there pvp server I know some people say it's dead or very little amount people around. PvP server mmo usely don't do well over there pve server people hate being gank only a niche like being gank that didn't help there pvp side of things to keep the amount people but don't know how it's is now I avoid pvp server as I don't see a point of it ganking people farming for fun to get pvp going.
Anyhow one thing I know that I'm going play wildstar soon and play there story line befor anything happen to it and don't feel like I miss out something like warhammer and city of heroes.
Highly mobile action RPGs dont do well in the long run. People 'want' these types of games but dont think about the long when you have to grind, it kills playability too fast in comparison to something cruise control like tab targetting.
You mean highly mobile AoE RPGs. There has never been a ccombat system like WS, and for good reason. Please do not associate it with action mmorpgs.
Highly mobile action RPGs dont do well in the long run. People 'want' these types of games but dont think about the long when you have to grind, it kills playability too fast in comparison to something cruise control like tab targetting.
You mean highly mobile AoE RPGs. There has never been a ccombat system like WS, and for good reason. Please do not associate it with action mmorpgs.
I loved the Combat System. I do not understand why everyone is acting like this.
I would prefer most games to have such combat system rather than the bad WoW forced one.
For the 20 years i play mmo games, and so far the best targeting system is from TERA. Really, all other targeting systems are pretty bad. People prefer to be lazy than have atual skills.
Highly mobile action RPGs dont do well in the long run. People 'want' these types of games but dont think about the long when you have to grind, it kills playability too fast in comparison to something cruise control like tab targetting.
You mean highly mobile AoE RPGs. There has never been a ccombat system like WS, and for good reason. Please do not associate it with action mmorpgs.
There alot worst combat in wildstar that combat was not the main problem. Hell there tons people hate FF14 combat and it's GCD I know it's not the same combat but people deal with it and end up playing it.
From a corporate tax standpoint they can hold this project at a loss for a pretty long deferment using it to balance the success of their other holdings. Think of it in terms of the lottery, you can use your losing wagers to reduce the tax liability of your winning wagers.
From a corporate tax standpoint they can hold this project at a loss for a pretty long deferment using it to balance the success of their other holdings. Think of it in terms of the lottery, you can use your losing wagers to reduce the tax liability of your winning wagers.
Using assets to reduce losses is a losing strategy, unless there's a very good chance that those losses will be turned-around and converted to strong profits.
In the case of Wildstar, that's obviously never going to happen. They played their last cards (F2P conversion), and folded. Cut the losses and focus on those things that can generate more profit.
Only a fool spends $5M to earn $10M, when they could have spent that same $5M to earn $20M....
SpottyGekko said:
If NCSoft get to the point where they consider the ROI of Wildstar to be to low, they will shut it down. Keeping it going ties up resources that could be deployed to more profitable projects.
Except in 2012 they shut down Paragon Studios and everyone had to find new jobs with rival companies. They didn't redeploy resources, they got rid of them making the company weaker and their rivals stronger.
SpottyGekko said:
If NCSoft get to the point where they consider the ROI of Wildstar to be to low, they will shut it down. Keeping it going ties up resources that could be deployed to more profitable projects.
Except in 2012 they shut down Paragon Studios and everyone had to find new jobs with rival companies. They didn't redeploy resources, they got rid of them making the company weaker and their rivals stronger.
If you don't have a purpose or project for a whole division full of assets, it's best to get rid of them. Spending money to keep them "idly sitting around" is a criminal waste. Best to spend that money on improving current active projects or paying your shareholders bigger dividends or even saving it up for future possible projects.
Selling-off a division doesn't make your rivals "stronger". It only releases a certain amount of potential talent onto the market. That talent will remain unemployed until someone needs their skills, which could be a rival or even yourself 6 months from now.
we have seen this already a few years back with warhammer online- relic & EA.
Funny thing about warhammer there was tons of people pvping at the low level range was free forever from 1-10 was out all at war. Or was it 1-15 was abit ago.
Wildstar is a clear example of what happens when developers try to be everything to everyone and try to check all the boxes instead of focusing on a core audience.
the whole "Hardcore WOW in space" clearly is a flop... Them trying to emulate the "wow look and feel" with pseudo action combat just didn't work. especially having to constantly spam your "builder" attack 1111111111211111111113111111141511111111111111.
The "in your face cupcake" shtick was kinda sorta funny at first then got old really fast. Especially after you realized how redundant and tedious the game was... "GRRR Find another 10 widgets F*ck face!"
While i am not longer a fan of the game, WOW is WOW, not for the game it is today, it is for the game it was back in the day... It became an entity with perfect timing it was exactly what everyone at the time wanted, and at a time where everything else was pretty standard (the same game with either PvP or no PvP).
If WOW was released today as a new IP, would it do as well probably not. Clearly not as a space game with action combat, that's for sure!
iam curious- if they decide to shut down - how would the cash shop be handled for those who used real money to purchase pixel items in the past month.
There's usually a month or two's warning at the very least before a AAA game is shut down.
Technically, there's nothing stopping them from closing it down with an hour's notice, but the resulting bad PR is not worth it.
There's no implied guarantee that you'll have a "minimum period of usage" when buying an item in the cash shop. Anything you buy is "yours" for as long as the game runs, however long that may be.
It's obviously not going to be a rousing success as they had hoped. Appealing to the "hardcore" crowd was a really foolish mistake, but it could settle out to be a small but consistent revenue stream for quite a while.
I don't think the idea of appealing to the hardcore crowd itself was all that foolish. Using the product they had was.
orbitxo said:
iam curious- if they decide to shut down - how would the cash shop be handled for those who used real money to purchase pixel items in the past month.
There's usually a month or two's warning at the very least before a AAA game is shut down.
Technically, there's nothing stopping them from closing it down with an hour's notice, but the resulting bad PR is not worth it.
There's no implied guarantee that you'll have a "minimum period of usage" when buying an item in the cash shop. Anything you buy is "yours" for as long as the game runs, however long that may be.
It still looks like they are preparing to release in China. If that comes to pass the game will probably run for at least another year, to give that release time to pan out.
Albatroes said:
Highly mobile action RPGs dont do well in the long run. People 'want' these types of games but dont think about the long when you have to grind, it kills playability too fast in comparison to something cruise control like tab targetting.
You mean highly mobile AoE RPGs. There has never been a ccombat system like WS, and for good reason. Please do not associate it with action mmorpgs.
I loved the Combat System. I do not understand why everyone is acting like this.
I would prefer most games to have such combat system rather than the bad WoW forced one.
For the 20 years i play mmo games, and so far the best targeting system is from TERA. Really, all other targeting systems are pretty bad. People prefer to be lazy than have atual skills.
I can tell you why from my point of view. I'm not a fan of action combat in the best of situations, but it's even more onerous in an MMORPG where I am spending hours at a time playing. Twitch combat is exhausting and carpal tunnel inducing and in large doses, very stressful. I jumped into MMORPGs for the relaxed and cerebral game play. Now that the majority of Tom, Dick and Harry RPGs and MMOs are action based, I have nothing new to play.
Laziness has nothing to do with it. Some would call action junkies lazy in the brain department, I just consider them different types of players. Disrespecting play styles that don't match yours is quite childish. We all want games to offer what we like.
iam curious- if they decide to shut down - how would the cash shop be handled for those who used real money to purchase pixel items in the past month.
There's usually a month or two's warning at the very least before a AAA game is shut down.
Technically, there's nothing stopping them from closing it down with an hour's notice, but the resulting bad PR is not worth it.
There's no implied guarantee that you'll have a "minimum period of usage" when buying an item in the cash shop. Anything you buy is "yours" for as long as the game runs, however long that may be.
It still looks like they are preparing to release in China. If that comes to pass the game will probably run for at least another year, to give that release time to pan out.
F2p will 100% absolutely NEVER make a game better,it is nothing more than a marketing ploy.
Well, F2P could give a game more time and/or resources in order to get better, and yes, it is another bite at the release apple, which is a marketing thing.
Yes i agree with you there,it can buy them time,but if a game goes into cash shop it is for a reason.I don't see a developer that si all of a sudden struggling as going out and using that "time" constructively because it costs money to improve a game.
Square did it with FFXIV but that si such a rare case,we are talking a very old rich developer and even they struggled to pull it off as they made claims it might sink their business if it fails again because of high costs.
I know why they went for the game they did,it was a risk,they were not a known Blizzard type entity,they could not afford a more expensive design.However they also need to stay realistic,they went in a budget design and came out with at least some short term success and i am sure made some decent profits from it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Darkspire said:
Wildstar has several severe issues that people told devs from the start but no one listened.
Instances are ridiculously hard, sure some people like challenge but most just want to play the content.
Atunment... this is 2015... not Molten Core... people dont want to do this anymore.
PVP is a joke, telegraphs on everything... AoE madness, pvp stats that do nothing...
The payment mode help if people like aspects of the game but they dont think it deserves a sub. Payment mode is irrelevant if the game is terrible.
There is nothing wrong with hard or gated content by saying this is 2015 your what, saying people don't expect to have to earn things in game anymore?The only thing I agree with you on is the telegraphing combat was a horrible idea.
Its not about earning, it is the perception you get. Imagine going in the first 5 man, wiping 4 hours and then getting a blue drop. First thought on peoples head is if a 5 man is this hard imagine raids... and they quit
While I agree with you that f2p doesn't make a game better, the cartooney art design was not the issue.
Disagree a bit with this, the art design IMHO was a big problem for many people. It clearly was not the main reason this game struggling, but it contributes and remains an issue for many players.
Comments
While I agree with you that f2p doesn't make a game better, the cartooney art design was not the issue.
World of Warcraft is Cartooney art design and we know its history.
I personally hate WoW. it is so monotonious, i didnt even read the quests >.> At the end i gived up because i had to complete the same dungeon 50-60 times for just 1 item.. I never understood why people like WoW.
But right now not sure how many people are still playing if there just a niche still there someone in too the endgame can fill me in on that if there still playing now. But expecting a sub when it lunch was a mistake even if they fix alot problem people had whats the point to play if got to drop $15 more to see how the game turn out or not.
Then expecting 40 man raids to go well was a mistake, then expecting people to level how long it took to get to max level was a other mistake. And expecting the endgame for hardcore player was a other mistake when a mmo need both hardcore and casual need some type of balance.
But there pvp server I know some people say it's dead or very little amount people around. PvP server mmo usely don't do well over there pve server people hate being gank only a niche like being gank that didn't help there pvp side of things to keep the amount people but don't know how it's is now I avoid pvp server as I don't see a point of it ganking people farming for fun to get pvp going.
Anyhow one thing I know that I'm going play wildstar soon and play there story line befor anything happen to it and don't feel like I miss out something like warhammer and city of heroes.
I loved the Combat System. I do not understand why everyone is acting like this.
I would prefer most games to have such combat system rather than the bad WoW forced one.
For the 20 years i play mmo games, and so far the best targeting system is from TERA. Really, all other targeting systems are pretty bad. People prefer to be lazy than have atual skills.
the proof is in their puddin...oh what puddin?, right.
In the case of Wildstar, that's obviously never going to happen. They played their last cards (F2P conversion), and folded. Cut the losses and focus on those things that can generate more profit.
Only a fool spends $5M to earn $10M, when they could have spent that same $5M to earn $20M....
If NCSoft get to the point where they consider the ROI of Wildstar to be to low, they will shut it down. Keeping it going ties up resources that could be deployed to more profitable projects.
Except in 2012 they shut down Paragon Studios and everyone had to find new jobs with rival companies. They didn't redeploy resources, they got rid of them making the company weaker and their rivals stronger.
Selling-off a division doesn't make your rivals "stronger". It only releases a certain amount of potential talent onto the market. That talent will remain unemployed until someone needs their skills, which could be a rival or even yourself 6 months from now.
the whole "Hardcore WOW in space" clearly is a flop... Them trying to emulate the "wow look and feel" with pseudo action combat just didn't work. especially having to constantly spam your "builder" attack 1111111111211111111113111111141511111111111111.
The "in your face cupcake" shtick was kinda sorta funny at first then got old really fast. Especially after you realized how redundant and tedious the game was... "GRRR Find another 10 widgets F*ck face!"
While i am not longer a fan of the game, WOW is WOW, not for the game it is today, it is for the game it was back in the day... It became an entity with perfect timing it was exactly what everyone at the time wanted, and at a time where everything else was pretty standard (the same game with either PvP or no PvP).
If WOW was released today as a new IP, would it do as well probably not. Clearly not as a space game with action combat, that's for sure!
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Technically, there's nothing stopping them from closing it down with an hour's notice, but the resulting bad PR is not worth it.
There's no implied guarantee that you'll have a "minimum period of usage" when buying an item in the cash shop. Anything you buy is "yours" for as long as the game runs, however long that may be.
orbitxo said:
iam curious- if they decide to shut down - how would the cash shop be handled for those who used real money to purchase pixel items in the past month.
There's usually a month or two's warning at the very least before a AAA game is shut down.
Technically, there's nothing stopping them from closing it down with an hour's notice, but the resulting bad PR is not worth it.
There's no implied guarantee that you'll have a "minimum period of usage" when buying an item in the cash shop. Anything you buy is "yours" for as long as the game runs, however long that may be.
It still looks like they are preparing to release in China. If that comes to pass the game will probably run for at least another year, to give that release time to pan out.
bcbully said:
Albatroes said:
Highly mobile action RPGs dont do well in the long run. People 'want' these types of games but dont think about the long when you have to grind, it kills playability too fast in comparison to something cruise control like tab targetting.
You mean highly mobile AoE RPGs. There has never been a ccombat system like WS, and for good reason. Please do not associate it with action mmorpgs.
I loved the Combat System. I do not understand why everyone is acting like this.
I would prefer most games to have such combat system rather than the bad WoW forced one.
For the 20 years i play mmo games, and so far the best targeting system is from TERA. Really, all other targeting systems are pretty bad. People prefer to be lazy than have atual skills.
I can tell you why from my point of view. I'm not a fan of action combat in the best of situations, but it's even more onerous in an MMORPG where I am spending hours at a time playing. Twitch combat is exhausting and carpal tunnel inducing and in large doses, very stressful. I jumped into MMORPGs for the relaxed and cerebral game play. Now that the majority of Tom, Dick and Harry RPGs and MMOs are action based, I have nothing new to play. Laziness has nothing to do with it. Some would call action junkies lazy in the brain department, I just consider them different types of players. Disrespecting play styles that don't match yours is quite childish. We all want games to offer what we like.
SpottyGekko said:
orbitxo said:
iam curious- if they decide to shut down - how would the cash shop be handled for those who used real money to purchase pixel items in the past month.
There's usually a month or two's warning at the very least before a AAA game is shut down.
Technically, there's nothing stopping them from closing it down with an hour's notice, but the resulting bad PR is not worth it.
There's no implied guarantee that you'll have a "minimum period of usage" when buying an item in the cash shop. Anything you buy is "yours" for as long as the game runs, however long that may be.
It still looks like they are preparing to release in China. If that comes to pass the game will probably run for at least another year, to give that release time to pan out.
ty guys.
Wizardry said:
F2p will 100% absolutely NEVER make a game better,it is nothing more than a marketing ploy.
Well, F2P could give a game more time and/or resources in order to get better, and yes, it is another bite at the release apple, which is a marketing thing.
Yes i agree with you there,it can buy them time,but if a game goes into cash shop it is for a reason.I don't see a developer that si all of a sudden struggling as going out and using that "time" constructively because it costs money to improve a game.
Square did it with FFXIV but that si such a rare case,we are talking a very old rich developer and even they struggled to pull it off as they made claims it might sink their business if it fails again because of high costs.
I know why they went for the game they did,it was a risk,they were not a known Blizzard type entity,they could not afford a more expensive design.However they also need to stay realistic,they went in a budget design and came out with at least some short term success and i am sure made some decent profits from it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There is nothing wrong with hard or gated content by saying this is 2015 your what, saying people don't expect to have to earn things in game anymore?
The only thing I agree with you on is the telegraphing combat was a horrible idea.
Darkspire said:
Wildstar has several severe issues that people told devs from the start but no one listened.
Instances are ridiculously hard, sure some people like challenge but most just want to play the content.
Atunment... this is 2015... not Molten Core... people dont want to do this anymore.
PVP is a joke, telegraphs on everything... AoE madness, pvp stats that do nothing...
The payment mode help if people like aspects of the game but they dont think it deserves a sub. Payment mode is irrelevant if the game is terrible.
There is nothing wrong with hard or gated content by saying this is 2015 your what, saying people don't expect to have to earn things in game anymore?The only thing I agree with you on is the telegraphing combat was a horrible idea.
Its not about earning, it is the perception you get. Imagine going in the first 5 man, wiping 4 hours and then getting a blue drop. First thought on peoples head is if a 5 man is this hard imagine raids... and they quit