The devs are just fine. It's players like the OP that are stuck in the past that are making themselves miserable. I hate to say it buddy, but the genre's moved on without you, and it's bigger than ever.
Saying the devs are fine is obviously purely opinion, but certainly some are good some are bad. Actually nothing you say is explicitly untrue, but the way you say it paints a picture of reality that's the opposite of what I see. Sure there are a lot more MMOs out there than there were 10 years ago but most of them are ghost town cash crab whalebaits. The only MMO that stays somewhat stable is EVE and according to detractors nobody wants to play games with high learning curves, steep death penalties, slow action, long time investments or whatever. Even WoW is bleeding HUGE amounts of subs.
Yea the industry is larger, its full of lots and lots of garbage in every flavor you can imagine. Kinda funny that the most popular upcoming MMOS are all trying to bring back mechanics and ideas from games that predated WoW to revive the 'bigger than ever' MMO industry. I guess everyone doesn't feel the same as you, there seems to be quite a huge amount of money and support being thrown behind 'old' development ideas and developers. We'll see how the next batch of 'WoW-backlash' MMOs compare to the WARs and SWTORs that tried to emulate the WoW formula.
That's mostly Indies trying to fill a niche in the industry. None of the big MMO developers are returning to the "good old pre-WoW" days. As for WoW, sure, it's bleeding subs... but those people aren't quitting MMOs altogether, they are migrating to different ones.
That being said, I'm all for devs trying new formulas. Mixing old and new to come up with something good. It is pretty much how WoW got that big. Blizzard "borrowed" a bunch of popular features, nixed the unpopular ones and added in a couple of new ones.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Yea the industry is larger, its full of lots and lots of garbage in every flavor you can imagine. Kinda funny that the most popular upcoming MMOS are all trying to bring back mechanics and ideas from games that predated WoW to revive the 'bigger than ever' MMO industry. I guess everyone doesn't feel the same as you, there seems to be quite a huge amount of money and support being thrown behind 'old' development ideas and developers. We'll see how the next batch of 'WoW-backlash' MMOs compare to the WARs and SWTORs that tried to emulate the WoW formula.
If a mechanic and idea is great, other games will copy it. And I'm not even talking about Wow.
If you live in the past, I just want to say all those old games was never a large budget game in the first place. And if you hate Wow, let's use Eve as an example. Eve "was" a low budget game. When it starts to rack in cash, the company grow over time.
Now if you hate wow-clone, you definately see, high budget dont' equals good game. So if you are sitting there waiting for some investor to throw money in your direction to make games you want, stop dreaming.
Fine, meanwhile Clash of clans with between 100 and 500 millions of instalations (official aple store) and League of Legens between 30 and 50 millions of players daily...
But hey, MMORPG market is fine, we are doing great, WoW still have something like 6 million players!!
Fine, meanwhile Clash of clans with between 100 and 500 millions of instalations (official aple store) and League of Legens between 30 and 50 millions of players daily...
But hey, MMORPG market is fine, we are doing great, WoW still have something like 6 million players!!
Doomed, I tell you, this genre is doomed...
Sarcasm aside .. this site is now about MMOs, not MMORPGs. So what if mmorpgs are doomed .. just called every online game MMO, then you have a new genre to discuss.
Fine, meanwhile Clash of clans with between 100 and 500 millions of instalations (official aple store) and League of Legens between 30 and 50 millions of players daily...
But hey, MMORPG market is fine, we are doing great, WoW still have something like 6 million players!!
Doomed, I tell you, this genre is doomed...
Sarcasm aside .. this site is now about MMOs, not MMORPGs. So what if mmorpgs are doomed .. just called every online game MMO, then you have a new genre to discuss.
No, Narius, that is not the case.
They made it clear in an announcement not too long ago that due to the current lull in MMORPG development they were going to increase coverage of other genres such as RPGs. At no point did they declare "this site is now about MMOs, not MMORPGs."
You spend enough time here, not sure how you missed that one. Also, why are you behind bars again?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I think many choose to use "MMO" over "MMORPG" because it's shorter and "roleplaying" makes basically no sense anymore why it should be used. Role playing in my definition means choosing a role with your character. That role can be a class or how you intend to play the game.
As you've already noticed most other genres have 3-4 letters. RTS, FPS, MOBA, etc...If there is one server where you can find individuals to group up from 100's of players to progress the game through gearing (mostly) or other means it's MMO.
Fine, meanwhile Clash of clans with between 100 and 500 millions of instalations (official aple store) and League of Legens between 30 and 50 millions of players daily...
But hey, MMORPG market is fine, we are doing great, WoW still have something like 6 million players!!
Doomed, I tell you, this genre is doomed...
I think maple story will save the mmorpg genre. That game have 100 million installation.
Please get the point now before every player leaves the market, before every cribaby that cried a river cause a PK killed him is gone to League of Legends to die every 3 minutes! Please stop hearing the carebear crow, remember what they did to Ultima Online or this market will be soon like Trammel, A DESERT!!
There is no "point", though. Those games have never been successful, because they've been bad PVP. Players don't want bad PVP. PKing is bad PVP. It's casual PVP decided by shallow or non-skill factors. And then on top of that the casual PVPers who enjoy PK-style games attempt to insult you if you point out its shortcomings. So yeah, there's no market for that and so you haven't made a "point" that developers should be creating those types of games -- you've mostly just reinforced why those types of games don't get made.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think many choose to use "MMO" over "MMORPG" because it's shorter and "roleplaying" makes basically no sense anymore why it should be used. Role playing in my definition means choosing a role with your character. That role can be a class or how you intend to play the game.
Actually RP is getting into character with the game and playing as if it you are that squire on a mission to save young damsels in distress. Very few people RP, they merely roll a character/class and perform that function in dungeons/raids/battlegrounds. Not that much different than being assigned an occupational specialty in the military... we need an 0311, guess what, you are an 0311, have a nice day.
Players have long since lost touch with the whole lore side of things... now it's all about numbers numbers numbers... how much the game is making... how high one's gear score is... one's battleground rating. RP has long left the building.
Please get the point now before every player leaves the market, before every cribaby that cried a river cause a PK killed him is gone to League of Legends to die every 3 minutes! Please stop hearing the carebear crow, remember what they did to Ultima Online or this market will be soon like Trammel, A DESERT!!
So your whole enjoyment is to pk people that don't want to get pked.
Maybe they don't enjoy that. And don't want to play with you.
I dont see how open world pvp can ever be fair in a mmo. You will allways end up with cases where a group of players pray on single players, or highlevel players pray on lowlevel players, or wild faction imbalances. The way around that is battlegrounds, but even there in alot of mmo's you will find huge imbalances mostly related to pvp weapons/armor.
I know pvp in MOBA and in MMORPG can be compared, but did anyone ever realy try to make a fun battleground system within an MMORPG with no imbalances due to pvp armor/weapon and the only thing that realy mattered is skill (i know, there will still be classimbalances)
I mostly agre that the world itself should be if not 100% pve then at least primarily pve based. That's realy where the market is. Even pvp players mostly dont want unbalanced pvp. I know some may seem to enjoy ganking, but most players, even pvp players seem to agree that an even fight is more fun than an uneven fight.
I do agre that developers should try to engage the comunity even more. Getting free content from your comunity can only be a good thing. The mod making comunity was part of what made WOW so big. Build on that. Just make sure you have clear rules and oversight on what's allowed and what's not.
Looking at comunitymaps in TF2 i sometimes think to myself, why dont MMORPG's try to do more of that. If a comunity can make a TF2 map it should be able to make most types of battlegroundmaps in MMO's. Capture the flag, king of the hill, attack/defend and more exist in TF2 and are classic pvp maps even in MMORPG's. Give your devoted fans the tools to make your game better. A better game is in everyones interest. Then you can spend less time on pvp and more time on pve.
Please get the point now before every player leaves the market, before every cribaby that cried a river cause a PK killed him is gone to League of Legends to die every 3 minutes! Please stop hearing the carebear crow, remember what they did to Ultima Online or this market will be soon like Trammel, A DESERT!!
There is no "point", though. Those games have never been successful, because they've been bad PVP. Players don't want bad PVP. PKing is bad PVP. It's casual PVP decided by shallow or non-skill factors. And then on top of that the casual PVPers who enjoy PK-style games attempt to insult you if you point out its shortcomings. So yeah, there's no market for that and so you haven't made a "point" that developers should be creating those types of games -- you've mostly just reinforced why those types of games don't get made.
Do we even need to mention that UO subs went up quite a bit after Trammel and that they reached their peak 2.5 years later? His whole Trammel comment was nonsensical. Maybe I am living in a parallel universe with an alternate history though.
Think about it, think about the enjoyment of PKing people who doesnt want to be PKed, now think in League of Legends... Now think in ARK... See the point now?
I will try to make my point more clear : The people who SAY that they dont want to be PKed doesnt seem to know what they want. Losing is a part of life, people who only wants to win everytime created the instagratification declive in the genre.
Think about it, think about the enjoyment of PKing people who doesnt want to be PKed, now think in League of Legends... Now think in ARK... See the point now?
I will try to make my point more clear : The people who SAY that they dont want to be PKed doesnt seem to know what they want. Losing is a part of life, people who only wants to win everytime created the instagratification declive in the genre.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Think about it, think about the enjoyment of PKing people who doesnt want to be PKed, now think in League of Legends... Now think in ARK... See the point now?
I will try to make my point more clear : The people who SAY that they dont want to be PKed doesnt seem to know what they want. Losing is a part of life, people who only wants to win everytime created the instagratification declive in the genre.
I bet Bill Cosby would see your point of view.
Im afraid im not a Bill Cosby fan, can you elaborate it for me?
The point is that people love a fair balanced fight. Open world pvp is rarely balanced. That's a huge part of why it's beeing so hated in mmorpg's. If you had an open world pvp matchmaking system then maybe, but i just cant imagine a system where that would make any sense.
Personly i dont hate pvp as such, i hate unbalanced fights. Groups v Soloplayers, Highlevel v Lowlevel, that just makes me want to log off and play something else. That can never be in a game's best interest.
Please get the point now before every player leaves the market, before every cribaby that cried a river cause a PK killed him is gone to League of Legends to die every 3 minutes! Please stop hearing the carebear crow, remember what they did to Ultima Online or this market will be soon like Trammel, A DESERT!!
There is no "point", though. Those games have never been successful, because they've been bad PVP. Players don't want bad PVP. PKing is bad PVP. It's casual PVP decided by shallow or non-skill factors. And then on top of that the casual PVPers who enjoy PK-style games attempt to insult you if you point out its shortcomings. So yeah, there's no market for that and so you haven't made a "point" that developers should be creating those types of games -- you've mostly just reinforced why those types of games don't get made.
The point is that people love a fair balanced fight. Open world pvp is rarely balanced. That's a huge part of why it's beeing so hated in mmorpg's. If you had an open world pvp matchmaking system then maybe, but i just cant imagine a system where that would make any sense.
Personly i dont hate pvp as such, i hate unbalanced fights. Groups v Soloplayers, Highlevel v Lowlevel, that just makes me want to log off and play something else. That can never be in a game's best interest.
Balanced fight? Is that even possible? First will be the outnembered, when thats balanced will be the level difference, when thats balanced will be the gear, when thats balanced will be the class, the terrain or the luck...
Balanced fights doesnt exist in mmos, nor in real life.
What about stop trying to balance the fight and let things happen with freedom?
This reminds me when in LoL rankeds some people say ban this and this and that because they are OP, and I think, cant you take that OP chars too? They are open for both teams...
Why the PK is so imbalanced and such a bad thing? Why cant you fight better than him when you have the same tools? A PC, an internet connection, the game installed...
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life! Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him? Uf that will take me a lot of time... HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
I mean that the imbalance sometimes is just in the fight loser mind.
I know pvp in MOBA and in MMORPG can be compared, but did anyone ever realy try to make a fun battleground system within an MMORPG with no imbalances due to pvp armor/weapon and the only thing that realy mattered is skill (i know, there will still be classimbalances)
Looking at comunitymaps in TF2 i sometimes think to myself, why dont MMORPG's try to do more of that. If a comunity can make a TF2 map it should be able to make most types of battlegroundmaps in MMO's. Capture the flag, king of the hill, attack/defend and more exist in TF2 and are classic pvp maps even in MMORPG's. Give your devoted fans the tools to make your game better. A better game is in everyones interest. Then you can spend less time on pvp and more time on pve.
Yes GW2 has a fun BG system with no imbalances due to armor/weapons or level- but it and GW1 are the ONLY mmos that have that, which is something I find really mindboggling.
Really like your second point as well, I had hopes for such a system with Neverwinter online and Rift which have some content creation tools, but they don't let you build pvp maps.
The point is that people love a fair balanced fight. Open world pvp is rarely balanced. That's a huge part of why it's beeing so hated in mmorpg's. If you had an open world pvp matchmaking system then maybe, but i just cant imagine a system where that would make any sense.
Personly i dont hate pvp as such, i hate unbalanced fights. Groups v Soloplayers, Highlevel v Lowlevel, that just makes me want to log off and play something else. That can never be in a game's best interest.
Balanced fight? Is that even possible? First will be the outnembered, when thats balanced will be the level difference, when thats balanced will be the gear, when thats balanced will be the class, the terrain or the luck...
Balanced fights doesnt exist in mmos, nor in real life.
What about stop trying to balance the fight and let things happen with freedom?
This reminds me when in LoL rankeds some people say ban this and this and that because they are OP, and I think, cant you take that OP chars too? They are open for both teams...
Why the PK is so imbalanced and such a bad thing? Why cant you fight better than him when you have the same tools? A PC, an internet connection, the game installed...
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life! Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him? Uf that will take me a lot of time... HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
I mean that the imbalance sometimes is just in the fight loser mind.
Bro, there is nothing wrong with anything.
But stop telling me what I should play.
There is nothing wrong with what you want. In fact half of the wow server is pvp. In fact many mmorpg have pvp and pve server.
If you want "full loot" pvp games. There are darkfall, mortal online, UO, EVE.
And balance fight in a mmorpg is not possible. That's why people that dont' want to do that dont' play on pvp server.
I hope you understand just because you are a guy who like girl, dont' mean every guy in the world actually like girl. OK? I hope you are old enough to understand there are actually guy who like guy.
IMO you don't have to have arenas or BGs where people are forced into the same level gear etc. I think the RvR system is perfectly fine in frontier type areas. Everyone there knows they are there for PvP so any gear, level, number difference is not only expected but your own fault for not doing anything about it. There is no non-consensual 'ganking', no item-dropping, or xp loss or whatever, but there is still room for organic battles and skirmishes; there is still an opportunity for the few to slay the many or hold a keep, etc.
'PK' oriented MMOs (also called hardcore PvP at times) are basically vampire fantasy MMOs, and generally garbage IMO. The PKer is basically role-playing a vampire ingame, the other PKers are other vampires and everyone else is the cattle. It's the reason this model fails consistently, nobody wants to be the cattle, and not everyone (not even everyone who likes PvP) wants to be a vampire.
There are a huge amount of players out there that love fair competition versus other players, look at BGs, MOBAs, Arenas, ETC. The amount of players that love hardcore PvP is insanely small and I'd be surprised if a single one was 'the cattle'.
Fine, meanwhile Clash of clans with between 100 and 500 millions of instalations (official aple store) and League of Legens between 30 and 50 millions of players daily...
But hey, MMORPG market is fine, we are doing great, WoW still have something like 6 million players!!
Doomed, I tell you, this genre is doomed...
What nonsense. Comparing something you need a decent PC for to something you can install on virtually any smartphone or tablet. Also comparing a game that takes time to actually play to one you can login click a few things and take off. Don't forget how many of us have our MMORPG installed across multiple devices to access our account vs how many people who play some android app game like CoC have it installed across an array of devices to access their account? People also find plenty of 5 minute breaks throughout the day to play whatever silly android app game they have such as when stuck in traffic or on the porcelain throne while to login to play your mmorpg its just not possible w/o your PC and people can't really just log in for 5 minutes to accomplish any sort of real agenda other then checking whatever broker/mail. Further people are less likely to bother uninstalling an android app unless they run into space issues while people with PCs are more likely to uninstall something they no longer use.
I could keep going on how comparing some android game like CoC to any MMORPG is utter nonsense and lunacy by whoever tries to make the comparison. But I'll just make one more point. MANY MANY android devices overseas especially in Asia come pre-installed with CoC. Maybe that throws those numbers up just a wee smidge?
I just wanna say, theres no way in hell everyone plays LoL .... 50million players DAILY?!??! Please. 50k MAYBE, 50million players hah. theres not that many people to play and also you dont need a decent computer to play that piece of shit of a game. you could play it on a 2001 computer just fine.
To be fair, closed PvP is rarely all that balanced either. Even in the case of 5v5 games like mobas the tendency is to either gang up or gank players, not fight skill for skill.
Shooters similarly have this predicament most of the time, as you get players that stack up to target and chase people or zerg the objectives. "Rush B" is a phrase for a reason thanks to Counter Strike and this predicament.
Short of shrinking a game to 1v1 in an empty arena where both players have the same hardware, connection, character/builds/abilities, etc, you are not going to see a "fair fight".
The scale of the game can make balance issues more obvious, but they exist regardless. The point of these different scenarios and types of PvP is the other reasons they exist and what they can offer. Thinking of it in a singularly competitive way is actually kinda crippling, as an example would be the case of a faction conflict game, being able to deal damage to an enemy faction by attacking more than just armies and forts.
Part of the issue of numeric imbalance is actually something that would be solvable through the use of the MMO and massive scale platform to implement something you generally don't or can't see on other scales, and that would be NPC armies/units. Something as simple as assigning a total unit number to a faction and filling it with reasonably capable NPCs that can be seamlessly substituted with player characters to keep the same global balance on active combatants in the environment would help quite a bit for example as well as give a much more active and populated feel to the game regardless of present player count.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
That being said, I'm all for devs trying new formulas. Mixing old and new to come up with something good. It is pretty much how WoW got that big. Blizzard "borrowed" a bunch of popular features, nixed the unpopular ones and added in a couple of new ones.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
If a mechanic and idea is great, other games will copy it. And I'm not even talking about Wow.
If you live in the past, I just want to say all those old games was never a large budget game in the first place. And if you hate Wow, let's use Eve as an example. Eve "was" a low budget game. When it starts to rack in cash, the company grow over time.
Now if you hate wow-clone, you definately see, high budget dont' equals good game. So if you are sitting there waiting for some investor to throw money in your direction to make games you want, stop dreaming.
But hey, MMORPG market is fine, we are doing great, WoW still have something like 6 million players!!
Doomed, I tell you, this genre is doomed...
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
They made it clear in an announcement not too long ago that due to the current lull in MMORPG development they were going to increase coverage of other genres such as RPGs. At no point did they declare "this site is now about MMOs, not MMORPGs."
You spend enough time here, not sure how you missed that one. Also, why are you behind bars again?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
As you've already noticed most other genres have 3-4 letters. RTS, FPS, MOBA, etc...If there is one server where you can find individuals to group up from 100's of players to progress the game through gearing (mostly) or other means it's MMO.
I think maple story will save the mmorpg genre. That game have 100 million installation.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Players have long since lost touch with the whole lore side of things... now it's all about numbers numbers numbers... how much the game is making... how high one's gear score is... one's battleground rating. RP has long left the building.
So your whole enjoyment is to pk people that don't want to get pked.
Maybe they don't enjoy that. And don't want to play with you.
You should respect people more.
I know pvp in MOBA and in MMORPG can be compared, but did anyone ever realy try to make a fun battleground system within an MMORPG with no imbalances due to pvp armor/weapon and the only thing that realy mattered is skill (i know, there will still be classimbalances)
I mostly agre that the world itself should be if not 100% pve then at least primarily pve based. That's realy where the market is. Even pvp players mostly dont want unbalanced pvp. I know some may seem to enjoy ganking, but most players, even pvp players seem to agree that an even fight is more fun than an uneven fight.
I do agre that developers should try to engage the comunity even more. Getting free content from your comunity can only be a good thing. The mod making comunity was part of what made WOW so big. Build on that. Just make sure you have clear rules and oversight on what's allowed and what's not.
Looking at comunitymaps in TF2 i sometimes think to myself, why dont MMORPG's try to do more of that. If a comunity can make a TF2 map it should be able to make most types of battlegroundmaps in MMO's. Capture the flag, king of the hill, attack/defend and more exist in TF2 and are classic pvp maps even in MMORPG's. Give your devoted fans the tools to make your game better. A better game is in everyones interest. Then you can spend less time on pvp and more time on pve.
Maybe I am living in a parallel universe with an alternate history though.
I will try to make my point more clear : The people who SAY that they dont want to be PKed doesnt seem to know what they want. Losing is a part of life, people who only wants to win everytime created the instagratification declive in the genre.
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
I bet Bill Cosby would see your point of view.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
Personly i dont hate pvp as such, i hate unbalanced fights. Groups v Soloplayers, Highlevel v Lowlevel, that just makes me want to log off and play something else. That can never be in a game's best interest.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Balanced fights doesnt exist in mmos, nor in real life.
What about stop trying to balance the fight and let things happen with freedom?
This reminds me when in LoL rankeds some people say ban this and this and that because they are OP, and I think, cant you take that OP chars too? They are open for both teams...
Why the PK is so imbalanced and such a bad thing? Why cant you fight better than him when you have the same tools? A PC, an internet connection, the game installed...
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life! Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him? Uf that will take me a lot of time... HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
I mean that the imbalance sometimes is just in the fight loser mind.
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
Really like your second point as well, I had hopes for such a system with Neverwinter online and Rift which have some content creation tools, but they don't let you build pvp maps.
Bro, there is nothing wrong with anything.
But stop telling me what I should play.
There is nothing wrong with what you want. In fact half of the wow server is pvp. In fact many mmorpg have pvp and pve server.
If you want "full loot" pvp games. There are darkfall, mortal online, UO, EVE.
And balance fight in a mmorpg is not possible. That's why people that dont' want to do that dont' play on pvp server.
I hope you understand just because you are a guy who like girl, dont' mean every guy in the world actually like girl. OK? I hope you are old enough to understand there are actually guy who like guy.
'PK' oriented MMOs (also called hardcore PvP at times) are basically vampire fantasy MMOs, and generally garbage IMO. The PKer is basically role-playing a vampire ingame, the other PKers are other vampires and everyone else is the cattle. It's the reason this model fails consistently, nobody wants to be the cattle, and not everyone (not even everyone who likes PvP) wants to be a vampire.
There are a huge amount of players out there that love fair competition versus other players, look at BGs, MOBAs, Arenas, ETC. The amount of players that love hardcore PvP is insanely small and I'd be surprised if a single one was 'the cattle'.
I could keep going on how comparing some android game like CoC to any MMORPG is utter nonsense and lunacy by whoever tries to make the comparison. But I'll just make one more point. MANY MANY android devices overseas especially in Asia come pre-installed with CoC. Maybe that throws those numbers up just a wee smidge?
Shooters similarly have this predicament most of the time, as you get players that stack up to target and chase people or zerg the objectives. "Rush B" is a phrase for a reason thanks to Counter Strike and this predicament.
Short of shrinking a game to 1v1 in an empty arena where both players have the same hardware, connection, character/builds/abilities, etc, you are not going to see a "fair fight".
The scale of the game can make balance issues more obvious, but they exist regardless. The point of these different scenarios and types of PvP is the other reasons they exist and what they can offer. Thinking of it in a singularly competitive way is actually kinda crippling, as an example would be the case of a faction conflict game, being able to deal damage to an enemy faction by attacking more than just armies and forts.
Part of the issue of numeric imbalance is actually something that would be solvable through the use of the MMO and massive scale platform to implement something you generally don't or can't see on other scales, and that would be NPC armies/units. Something as simple as assigning a total unit number to a faction and filling it with reasonably capable NPCs that can be seamlessly substituted with player characters to keep the same global balance on active combatants in the environment would help quite a bit for example as well as give a much more active and populated feel to the game regardless of present player count.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin