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P2w and star citizen
YashaX
Member EpicPosts: 3,100
in Star Citizen
I see all this heated debate about the management of SC and what not, but I rarely see anyone mention the massive P2W elements in the game even before it is launched. There is a lot of angst about mmos being P2W- especially Asian made mmos - but as far as I can see SC is a blatant and massive P2W cash grab on a scale I have not seen before, and yet no one seems to mention it.
I am not talking about whether its going to be released or the way kickstarter funds are used etc, I mean you can directly buy ships and so forth- ie directly buy power. I find it really strange that many people tout Western gamers' abhorrence of p2w, and yet a big upcoming title like this is possibly the most outrageous example of p2w to date but no one seems to mind?
I am not talking about whether its going to be released or the way kickstarter funds are used etc, I mean you can directly buy ships and so forth- ie directly buy power. I find it really strange that many people tout Western gamers' abhorrence of p2w, and yet a big upcoming title like this is possibly the most outrageous example of p2w to date but no one seems to mind?
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That goes for any game.
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Except you cannot fly those ships until you've learned the skills in REAL TIME. It takes at least 6 months + to be able to fly a Capital ship through training. And then you've got to worry about subsystems attached to it. However that is NOT pay to win. They're buying in-game earned currency from other players within the game. That is RMT (real money trade) for currency. P2W is buying directly from a cash shop items of power that are on sell there, whether earnable in-game is moot to that fact. And yes, I'd say that SC is completely P2W with it's ship sales system.
We dont know all the facts yet in Star Citizen but I am also worried that people who dropped thousands of dollars will dominate from day one.
Also, it's sort of hard to really compare some ships because they are built to cater to a very different segment of gameplay than the others. Yes a hornet is going to probably tear apart a Hull B or seriously grind out a freelancer, but those ships aren't designed with combat in mind and are meant to ferry cargo, which the hornet isn't capable of. Then there is actually tweaking ships with gear that we haven't gotten to see much of yet. It's fully possible a well geared Avenger can destroy even a base Aegis Saber just because it has superior tech.
Thank you.
Got a fish tank, several in game hangar minis from X-mas, a cool overcoat, and four different hangars.
Once it's clear the game is going to be made, and it's closer to release (if that ever happens), say in 2 years, then people will complain about p2w.
Or maybe not. Maybe they only care about p2w in Asian games.
Also, I'm not really sure the disparity of power between deep pocketed backers and new players is going to last all that long. Right now it's definitely p2w if we are talking about the pre-alpha arena commander and mini-pu, but that isn't representative of the finished game since we are missing the 3-5 star rated weapons and equipment. Gear is going to be the equalizer, and likely will make up over half the cost of any ship flying around.
In Eve, it's not the skills a character has learned that is the deciding factor since you can openly trade/purchase characters for ISK as well as their new plans to allow people to unplug SP and sell it as raw SP. What makes it not P2W is that all the gear in the world doesn't prepare you for the necessary skill and knowledge to engage in PvP thus why you see a thread or two every week on Reddit about how some PLEX warrior got raped as he undocked from Jita (safe space trade hub).
I think SC will have some of that as well. It does take added skill to effectively pilot your ship in combat and you'll probably see the best pilots being those that know when to couple/decouple for maximum performance. There are also a lot of things to do that don't involve piloting a ship, those things are the various careers and even manning turrets. I think you'll find that most people will have ships but only a portion of those will be active at any given time as the game seems to be pushing co-op play more than solo dog-fighter play.
Then more skill to use all the components system?
If either of those questions is true then the size of the ship is nothing.
From what I've read on the site SQ 42 is a place to work on flight skills. Since hardly any ships are available currently how is anyone getting an advantage by owning something they can't practice with?
Some would be; Free, extended insurance (I think some of the early, early backers have some of the larger ships with lifetime), and having the ships at launch. There are some ships that were sold that have a limited quantity, like the carriers if memory serves. However, you can still find these out in the universe for salvage or takeover.
I think the largest benefit of being a backer will be the gigantic head start in experience and knowledge that they'll have which will be easily exploited against those who didn't play prior to release but that's hardly unique to SC.
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Just around 20 threads here on this subforum alone e.g.
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/399578/no-pay-to-win-just-one-more-marketing-trap#latest
more on other parts of the forum here (General, Discussion etc.) and
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/212815/katamari-mega-thread-pay-to-win
some 478 pages of discussion on the official forums. "Rarely" indeed.
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The main question is, how much P2W can you tolerate and will the game exceed that? Which, again, we can't really answer without even so much as a beta to test things out with. Maybe that $2,500 javelin class ship will be so much more powerful than any ship that's feasibly obtainable in-game (without grinding for 2 years) that even the best player in the world will have trouble beating a noob piloting one of those things. Or maybe not. It's not like we have anything but promises, hopes, and dreams (and an alpha which is so early that anything can change drastically long before reaching beta) to go on right now.
If this is not p2w then there is no such thing as p2w. You don't need to see the stats to know that to provide any type of realism a 12 meter long P-52 merlin with no cargo space is more than somewhat inferior to the 345m long Javelin class destroyer with large cargo and bristling with guns. Being able to buy multiple powerful ships like that with real cash is the very definition of p2w.
This is the first time I have seen a game that is literally built on p2w. There was a huge stink over AA, but even in that game you couldn't just outright buy amazing gear- you at least had to jump through a few hoops.
In nearly every thread about BDO and B&S you get numerous posts on how Asian games suck because they are all p2w cash grabs, and yet those games have nothing, absolutely nothing, on SC when it comes to the ability for players to straight out buy power from the game store, and have really focused on providing a cosmetics only shop.
And its not that I even particularly care if SC is funding the creation of the game through selling OP gear (ships, etc) . The ships look great, the game concept is good. I just find it incredible that so many people bash other games for p2w and yet here we have a much anticipated Western mmo that is laying its foundations with a p2w scheme of outright selling probably the most important and sought after gear in the game (ships).
That people can defend this and say it is not p2w is kind of mind boggling. Its also somewhat scary to see what a company can get away with. I mean I understand that people are fans and all, but if an mmo I was really looking forward to decided to let people straight out buy powerful gear from the cash shop I would at the least voice my disapproval, and if it was anything like I see here with SC, I would probably give up on it.
People don't care. Capitalism rulez!! They are willing to put a pair of blinkers on and extol Star Citizen as pinnicle of crowd-funding while ignoring the potential ramifications it will have on the game and the industry as a whole.
One thing that's guaranteed is that, more so than ever, publishers are going to be looking at CIG's success in monetising its fan base and salivating over all the ways they can leverage their own playerbase.
Is that the legacy that Star Citizen is going to leave us? How they single-handedly led the gaming industry into a new era of fleecing its customers. Christ Roberts the second coming... for suits, not gamers.
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Apologies for all the hyperbole.
Even if we don't know the stats we pretty much know that the more expensive ships are going to be better, otherwise there's going to be backlash "within the ranks".
Many kickstarters make a point to say that the amount you donate doesn't necessarily get you anything tangible, but this game has marketed these ships to be powerful commodities in the game.
Star Guide - Is Star Citizen Pay 2 Win??
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