They've also started to use copy/pasta responses for people saying they're going to do chargebacks since their refunds were denied (Weird since CR said if people didn't support the project that they should get their money back, right?)
quote:
Hi rootdarkarchon,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I am very sorry you felt the need to perform a chargeback, however
chargebacks should only ever be used for cases of genuine fraud, where
you have had no recollection of making the payment yourself. Using a
chargeback as a means to gain a refund is a misuse of the system, and
damages both us, and your own ability to use the payment provider in the
future. Unfortunately if you decide to do this, I will have to take a
note of this down to provide the information to Paypal.
I apologise that we cannot offer you a refund, however as stated by my
colleagues before you are outside of the 14 day grace period and are not
eligible for one. If you require any further assistance please let us
know, thanks.
Best Regards
Amy
Billing Support Representative
Cloud Imperium Games
Pretty scary as that's a straight up lie. A chargeback's sole purpose isn't for fraud (Even though in this case one could argue...). It keeps getting deeper and deeper.
It really doesn't matter what CIG thinks of PayPals chargeback policy. What matters is what PayPals chargeback policy actually is.
"A chargeback, also known as a reversal, is when a buyer asks their credit card issuer to reverse a transaction after it has been completed. It is available only to users who make a payment funded by their credit card.
There are three main reasons a buyer will do this:
The item did not arrive.
The item was significantly different than advertised.
Their credit card was used without their permission to purchase the item fraudulently.
Chargebacks are initiated and handled by the buyer's credit card issuer-not by PayPal-and therefore will follow that company's regulations and timeframes. That said, PayPal often plays a role in resolving chargeback disputes."
If CIG is accepting payment via PayPal, then they obviously have agreed to PayPals terms and conditions.
..... Someone here on this subforum wanted an estimate on the cost of the performance capture shoot. We now have a range given the government statement above. Lower limit: 2 million pounds. Upper limit: 15 million pounds.
Taking into account the number of people (salaries) working at Foundry 42 UK, the overhead cost, the cost for equipment etc. my guestimate would be a few (single digit) million pounds .
That was me. If the shoot came in around 10mil, I'd say extravagant but not unreasonable. Half that, and they did good. More than that, and Roberts' Hollywood obsession would be showing. But look at the bloodflow on their faces!
Was interesting to see the numbers of folks working on the project in Britain. Wonder how recently it has swollen up to 160. I suspect this is due to Erin being more influential in the project, and the fact that Erin is more competent. Sadly, for the English employees, Chris is visiting now, doubtless causing logjams and pissing off the help.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
..... Someone here on this subforum wanted an estimate on the cost of the performance capture shoot. We now have a range given the government statement above. Lower limit: 2 million pounds. Upper limit: 15 million pounds.
Taking into account the number of people (salaries) working at Foundry 42 UK, the overhead cost, the cost for equipment etc. my guestimate would be a few (single digit) million pounds .
That was me. If the shoot came in around 10mil, I'd say extravagant but not unreasonable. Half that, and they did good. More than that, and Roberts' Hollywood obsession would be showing. But look at the bloodflow on their faces!
Was interesting to see the numbers of folks working on the project in Britain. Wonder how recently it has swollen up to 160. I suspect this is due to Erin being more influential in the project, and the fact that Erin is more competent. Sadly, for the English employees, Chris is visiting now, doubtless causing logjams and pissing off the help.
Does that take into account hiring at least 3 Hollywood actors (not voice actors mind you, those are cheap).
They've also started to use copy/pasta responses for people saying they're going to do chargebacks since their refunds were denied (Weird since CR said if people didn't support the project that they should get their money back, right?)
quote:
Hi rootdarkarchon,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I am very sorry you felt the need to perform a chargeback, however
chargebacks should only ever be used for cases of genuine fraud, where
you have had no recollection of making the payment yourself. Using a
chargeback as a means to gain a refund is a misuse of the system, and
damages both us, and your own ability to use the payment provider in the
future. Unfortunately if you decide to do this, I will have to take a
note of this down to provide the information to Paypal.
I apologise that we cannot offer you a refund, however as stated by my
colleagues before you are outside of the 14 day grace period and are not
eligible for one. If you require any further assistance please let us
know, thanks.
Best Regards
Amy
Billing Support Representative
Cloud Imperium Games
Pretty scary as that's a straight up lie. A chargeback's sole purpose isn't for fraud (Even though in this case one could argue...). It keeps getting deeper and deeper.
It really doesn't matter what CIG thinks of PayPals chargeback policy. What matters is what PayPals chargeback policy actually is.
"A chargeback, also known as a reversal, is when a buyer asks their credit card issuer to reverse a transaction after it has been completed. It is available only to users who make a payment funded by their credit card.
There are three main reasons a buyer will do this:
The item did not arrive.
The item was significantly different than advertised.
Their credit card was used without their permission to purchase the item fraudulently.
Chargebacks are initiated and handled by the buyer's credit card issuer-not by PayPal-and therefore will follow that company's regulations and timeframes. That said, PayPal often plays a role in resolving chargeback disputes."
If CIG is accepting payment via PayPal, then they obviously have agreed to PayPals terms and conditions.
Chargeback away.
Re-read what you quoted. Chargebacks have nothing to do with Paypal. They are an anti-fraud function managed by card issuers, and whether you get a chargeback or not depends entirely on your card issuers policy (which are, pretty much universally, only ever allowed in specific circumstances). Paypal is obliged to follow them by law. The "item did not arrive" or "was significantly different than advertised" are actually quite misleading; most card issuers will not allow you to chargeback just because you don't like something or want a refund. It is generally considered an abuse of the system, and if you are caught doing it card issuers can (and will) stop allowing you to chargeback even in legitimate circumstances. And the CiG rep is entirely correct; misuse and abuse of the chargeback system does indeed have consequences for both you and the other parties involved.
There is no product yet, until the game goes gold status you literally have no right to do a charge back. A release date was never stated when you backed it, you were promised participation in the development, which you have gotten and until the gold product is released you can do NOTHING.
..... Someone here on this subforum wanted an estimate on the cost of the performance capture shoot. We now have a range given the government statement above. Lower limit: 2 million pounds. Upper limit: 15 million pounds.
Taking into account the number of people (salaries) working at Foundry 42 UK, the overhead cost, the cost for equipment etc. my guestimate would be a few (single digit) million pounds .
That was me. If the shoot came in around 10mil, I'd say extravagant but not unreasonable. Half that, and they did good. More than that, and Roberts' Hollywood obsession would be showing. But look at the bloodflow on their faces!
Was interesting to see the numbers of folks working on the project in Britain. Wonder how recently it has swollen up to 160. I suspect this is due to Erin being more influential in the project, and the fact that Erin is more competent. Sadly, for the English employees, Chris is visiting now, doubtless causing logjams and pissing off the help.
Does that take into account hiring at least 3 Hollywood actors (not voice actors mind you, those are cheap).
That thought had occurred to me as well. Four actors who wouldn't come cheap. They generally negotiate deals individually. Given the Roberts likes to hobnob with Hollywood types, he may have paid them top dollar. If it was within the bounds of the stretch goal, it might be okay. With Roberts, you never know.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
They've also started to use copy/pasta responses for people saying they're going to do chargebacks since their refunds were denied (Weird since CR said if people didn't support the project that they should get their money back, right?)
quote:
Hi rootdarkarchon,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I am very sorry you felt the need to perform a chargeback, however
chargebacks should only ever be used for cases of genuine fraud, where
you have had no recollection of making the payment yourself. Using a
chargeback as a means to gain a refund is a misuse of the system, and
damages both us, and your own ability to use the payment provider in the
future. Unfortunately if you decide to do this, I will have to take a
note of this down to provide the information to Paypal.
I apologise that we cannot offer you a refund, however as stated by my
colleagues before you are outside of the 14 day grace period and are not
eligible for one. If you require any further assistance please let us
know, thanks.
Best Regards
Amy
Billing Support Representative
Cloud Imperium Games
Pretty scary as that's a straight up lie. A chargeback's sole purpose isn't for fraud (Even though in this case one could argue...). It keeps getting deeper and deeper.
It really doesn't matter what CIG thinks of PayPals chargeback policy. What matters is what PayPals chargeback policy actually is.
"A chargeback, also known as a reversal, is when a buyer asks their credit card issuer to reverse a transaction after it has been completed. It is available only to users who make a payment funded by their credit card.
There are three main reasons a buyer will do this:
The item did not arrive.
The item was significantly different than advertised.
Their credit card was used without their permission to purchase the item fraudulently.
Chargebacks are initiated and handled by the buyer's credit card issuer-not by PayPal-and therefore will follow that company's regulations and timeframes. That said, PayPal often plays a role in resolving chargeback disputes."
If CIG is accepting payment via PayPal, then they obviously have agreed to PayPals terms and conditions.
Chargeback away.
Re-read what you quoted. Chargebacks have nothing to do with Paypal. They are an anti-fraud function managed by card issuers, and whether you get a chargeback or not depends entirely on your card issuers policy (which are, pretty much universally, only ever allowed in specific circumstances). Paypal is obliged to follow them by law. The "item did not arrive" or "was significantly different than advertised" are actually quite misleading; most card issuers will not allow you to chargeback just because you don't like something or want a refund. It is generally considered an abuse of the system, and if you are caught doing it card issuers can (and will) stop allowing you to chargeback even in legitimate circumstances. And the CiG rep is entirely correct; misuse and abuse of the chargeback system does indeed have consequences for both you and the other parties involved.
This may be true if you are living in the 4th Stimpire, but in other countries the CC Companies tend to be on the customers side to deliver something that's called ... you know ... customer service.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
This may be true if you are living in the 4th Stimpire, but in other countries the CC Companies tend to be on the customers side to deliver something that's called ... you know ... customer service.
Yeah tough call, the most likely hundreds of customers calling in/filing chargebacks against CIG or CIG trying to defend themselves to the CC company. I wonder who they would believe...
This may be true if you are living in the 4th Stimpire, but in other countries the CC Companies tend to be on the customers side to deliver something that's called ... you know ... customer service.
Yeah tough call, the most likely hundreds of customers calling in/filing chargebacks against CIG or CIG trying to defend themselves to the CC company. I wonder who they would believe...
Spoiler alert: Not CIG.
Honestly, the CC company doesn't care... until you pay your bill, it is their money in play, and they are only too happy to chargeback. They take your word for it, because there is no incentive for them to take a vendors word for it. It is you that is the customer.
I have done maybe a dozen chargebacks in 20+ years of using a CC, and I have never been refused by the CC company and I have never, ever had a chargeback adversely affect my credit. (For that, the average customer has to charge back several times a year, for several years in a row before there is any negative effect at all.)
So the only people that try to scare people from charging back are morons who do not understand how things actually work, or the vendors themselves.
And for the record, in the US at least, pre-release software can ALWAYS be charged back, it expressly falls into the definition of an incomplete product (or so says corporate counsel for my company, who had to get involved in a commercial software dispute with a vendor).
Comments
https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-faq
"A chargeback, also known as a reversal, is when a buyer asks their credit card issuer to reverse a transaction after it has been completed. It is available only to users who make a payment funded by their credit card.
There are three main reasons a buyer will do this:
Chargebacks are initiated and handled by the buyer's credit card issuer-not by PayPal-and therefore will follow that company's regulations and timeframes. That said, PayPal often plays a role in resolving chargeback disputes."
If CIG is accepting payment via PayPal, then they obviously have agreed to PayPals terms and conditions.
Chargeback away.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
That was me. If the shoot came in around 10mil, I'd say extravagant but not unreasonable. Half that, and they did good. More than that, and Roberts' Hollywood obsession would be showing. But look at the bloodflow on their faces!
Was interesting to see the numbers of folks working on the project in Britain. Wonder how recently it has swollen up to 160. I suspect this is due to Erin being more influential in the project, and the fact that Erin is more competent. Sadly, for the English employees, Chris is visiting now, doubtless causing logjams and pissing off the help.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Have fun
That thought had occurred to me as well. Four actors who wouldn't come cheap. They generally negotiate deals individually. Given the Roberts likes to hobnob with Hollywood types, he may have paid them top dollar. If it was within the bounds of the stretch goal, it might be okay. With Roberts, you never know.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Spoiler alert: Not CIG.
I have done maybe a dozen chargebacks in 20+ years of using a CC, and I have never been refused by the CC company and I have never, ever had a chargeback adversely affect my credit. (For that, the average customer has to charge back several times a year, for several years in a row before there is any negative effect at all.)
So the only people that try to scare people from charging back are morons who do not understand how things actually work, or the vendors themselves.
And for the record, in the US at least, pre-release software can ALWAYS be charged back, it expressly falls into the definition of an incomplete product (or so says corporate counsel for my company, who had to get involved in a commercial software dispute with a vendor).
http://goo.gl/ggtq1O
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!