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Why Do PvP FFA people want to ruin other's fun?
OSYYRUS
Member Posts: 285
I really don't understand you guys. What makes you have the right to ruin other people's game? If you want a FFA system, that means you want to be able to kill anyone, anytime. Which basically means, you want to be able to kill people who don't want to PvP. Cause if you wanted to kill people who WANT to PvP, then you wouldn't need a FFA system, you'd just need a PvP toggle switch. Then people who want to play with you opt to go PvP, and people who want to be left alone don't. When you ask that everybody be subjected to YOUR rules, the only thing you gain from a FFA system is YOUR ability to gank people who don't want to play with you, hence, ruining their game. So tell me, what gives you the right in on online game to say that YOU should be able to kill anyone, anytime? The only difference between these two systems is that one allows for griefing and one doesn't, meaning if you are screaming for FFA, your most probably a greifer. Cause if you weren't, you'd have no problem with a PvP toggle. If you want the feel of a FFA system, just stay PvP all the time. People who don't want to PvP stay non-PvP and never the two shall meet. Non-PvPers have the right to play in peace, just as PvPers have the right to PvP. What you do NOT have the right to do is enforce YOUR playstyle on someone else, they pay for the game, just like you do.
The Millenium Lee
Comments
your looking at it in the completely wrong light....ffa pvp goes far beyond and much deeper than 'i want to kill anyone anytime and ruin their game'! also ffa pvp means absolutely positively definetly that no one is subjected to 'our rules'....you fail to see the point of ffa pvp....THERE ARE NO RULES
C
It totally depedns on teh game.
In a game designed with pve in mind as a main gameplay part, sure you have a point. But there are games out there that are designed for competition. Games where amrkets are player run, politics play a role, and resources are competed for.
As soon as that is the case, combat should be just as much of a tool as any of these other things. If market participation is non consensual, and the design of the game is to be a game of competition, then combat should follow the same general rule: ffa competition.
Not true at all. The most basic thing is that if you play an FFA PVP game or on an FFA server when there are multiple types then you have consented to PVP.
PVP flags don't prevent greifing, they just mean different types of greifing. Why should you be able to steal the mobs that I want to farm with no fear of reprisal, or run around using insulting emotes with no fear of the consequence, or spy on me, or ruin my RP by using game mechanics to stop my stalwart paladin from smiting an undead running in front of me? Having one invulnerable guy who can report every movement of your group to a flagged group, or worse having an unflagged healer keeping the flagged DPSers up while you fight is not exactly ideal gameplay either.
There are way too many people who take absurdly extreme positions, people are not evil, whining, lazy, stupid, mean, or whatever just because they have different video game preferences than you do.
perhaps you don't want to play a game that allows that kind of interaction, if your fun can be spoiled from it. If it's in the game, then it's a player's right to play that way.
P.S. Nothing gives a PKer more pleasure than this kind of complaining;)
I stopped reading there for a few simple reasons.
1. If you are playing a FFA PvP system then you chose to play PvP. You may not be in the mood to PvP at any particular time, but you still chose it.
2. Maybe they are speaking up because it isn't really a tapped market anymore and showing you exist is the only way to get someone to possibley listen to you often. Why do you think you have the right to ruin there fun if they shouldn't ruin yours?
3. Not everyone finds safety a challenge. Granted I don't at all times, but there are many offline options with a rebooting option available for those non pvp times.
As far I have seen from my casual looking there really isn't a above par FFA PvP game right now. There are a few servers on a few decent games (ie DAoC etc) but nothign with a good population because it is added on after the fact and not really part of the game, but I haven't tried SB recently since the changes. I should do that actually.
No game is for everyone, but there should be a good game for every decent sized group in my eyes, well ideally.
I think you'll find dude that they do not wish to ruin other peoples' fun, but instead would like a game that supports (or at least has an option of) the type of PVP gameplay that they enjoy and find fun. I'm not a big fan of the way they go about expressing this sometimes, but they have a right to express what they enjoy just as much as the 'casual/non-raider' people do. In the end, if you don't like it then you don't have to play it with them. If the game was populated by people who liked and accepted this gamestyle then it would work a lot better than what it would seem on the surface. In the end no fun would be lost, and instead fun would be gained.
You swing an axe, it should hit the target its aimed at.
Also, player justice is much better than whining to ccr's and costing that company more $$ to deal with children. I would rather kill that teenager thats crying.
You should have a pve switch so monsters cant hurt you if you REALLY want to take the depth out of a game!
If you can slay the mighty dragon, THEN WHY CRY ABOUT A HUMAN OR ELF TRYING TO KILL YOU????????????????????????????
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
zeno...hopefully one day we will play and fight together
C
Everyone that's posted a response has done so with inteligent, and good points of view. I'd like to clarify something a bit. I, actually don't mind the insecurity of a FFA system. I played the chaos days of UO, I was a Jedi in SWG and watched my back all the time. Unfortunately for you inteligent posters here, your brethren FFA fans will ruin if for you 100% of the time, as history has already proven. You have all played these systems, and there is no way you can argue that, eventually, at most of the PKers in an FFA system do it for the sole purpose of causing others grief, ruining their fun. Which in turn sends the victims to the devs, or right out of the game, which brings about the end of the system. I'm not pointing fingers at any of you, I'm saying from my experience the shit always rises to the top and you respectable FFAers are drowed by the immature pricks who would ruin not only the PvEers fun, but yours too by forcing the devs to take action against it. If it wasn't a problem why would it have ever changed? It's the way MMO's began, something must have happend right? I think the best you can hope for is an Indy game with an anarchy system, cause no large game company in their right mind is going to open themselves up to the whining, bitching, moaning, and crybabies that these systems buy them. Again, not pointing fingers at you guys, you all know who I'm attacking.
The Millenium Lee
The crusades ruined a true religious life for many. Enron ruined the points for many a capitalist. To limit your view to the most vocal and destructive has nothing to do with the issue, but rather those who try to destroy something for all. Yeah, I reread the whole thread, just hate it to end pesimistically(sp?).
Yes, the most vocal are generally not the ones to think things out, but the voice still needs to exist for something to happen, and I have to work in the real world ><.
Edit: on the griefing subject, it is kinda unavoidable to a certain extent. But personally I am not opposed to things that rebalance the powers now and then outside of just player control. It may be a 2ndry and additional complex issue, but there does have to be some powers beyond player controll to maintian a balance in most games. Just mentioning that there are some solutions to some of the imbalance issues. Afterall human made will never be perfect.
something did happen the company listened to the whingers, moaners and pissers instead of the whole community and this shaped the market for the next ten years....now we are living after that ten years of nonsense playing and games are starting to creep out again with free thinking involved...i hate stating eve, but it was the first.....we have darkfall, roma victor, the chronicles, age of conan, pitates of the burning sea......lokk to the right at games in dev...large percentage are thinking freely...they arnt large comapnys with big budgets but they are pushing the boat, and if you ever choose to play one of these games osyyrus look me up
...we can both make sure we arnt ganked
C
The Millenium Lee
We simply want our own game. We like our playstyle, and we wish to play it. Right now that isnt possible since there are no good FFApvp games (most FFApvp people want full looting, and where equipement doesnt define your character as much as most of the EQ-type games, and a skill-based advancement system). shadowbane was killed off early by bugs, and the population hasnt recovered, level based. lineage 2 is level based and so item based, that if you loose one of your uber items upon death, your out of pvp for a few solid weeks trying to recover. both of those games basically suck (to me). not because they were FFApvp, but because they were simply bad games. we want something liken to old-school UO mixed with ACDT.
I dont want any of the PvE-focused games coming out to add pvp to their game simply because my kind whines for it. the game is based around pve, and tacking pvp over an inherently pve based system is always a terrible idea. im also against whining for special server types, since that means extra work for the devs, and again, unless the game system is built from the ground up for pvp, then the pvp will suck.
i want you all to have your games (more games actually, since you all are a larger % of mmorpg players), but i want at least 1 or 2 good FFApvp games for our community. you cant hate us for that. again, its our playstyle and we like it. just because you dont like being ganked doesnt mean we dont see it as a thrill and a challenge. just because you dont want to be bothered in the middle of a quest doesnt mean we'd mind. mashing our playstyles together with consenual pvp doesnt work for us either. the whole reason we like FFApvp in the first place is because the world's "rules" are created and upheld by the community. there are consequences for various actions. in a consensual game someone can turn pvp on, go kill someone, or gank someone, or grief someone, and then turn pvp off and go do quests. that would INFURIATE a pro-FFApvp player. our mindset is that you should have to suffer the consequences, and that if you kill someone, that someone should be able to ambush you in the middle of a quest or whatever they hell your doing. you see?
"dont question our playstyle. you have yours, we have ours." that is what you should say to anyone calling you a carebear and trashing your game for not having FFApvp in it. this is what i say to those who accuse me of being a griefer... which is stupid anyways lol since im an anti-rpk.
oh well, i hope you get my point.
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Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
_______________________________________________
Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
The crusades ruined a true religious life for many. Enron ruined the points for many a capitalist. To limit your view to the most vocal and destructive has nothing to do with the issue, but rather those who try to destroy something for all. Yeah, I reread the whole thread, just hate it to end pesimistically(sp?).
Yes, the most vocal are generally not the ones to think things out, but the voice still needs to exist for something to happen, and I have to work in the real world ><.
Edit: on the griefing subject, it is kinda unavoidable to a certain extent. But personally I am not opposed to things that rebalance the powers now and then outside of just player control. It may be a 2ndry and additional complex issue, but there does have to be some powers beyond player controll to maintian a balance in most games. Just mentioning that there are some solutions to some of the imbalance issues. Afterall human made will never be perfect.
whoa, another great post
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Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
I love to gank lowbies. I just love it. Watchin a group of lowbies scatter like cockroaches when i bust into 'em like an atomic bomb just makes me giggle.
I love to sneak up on somebody while they are fighting a mob then gank em right before they get the kill shot in. I also love to hide in the bushes until they come back to their corpse and kill em again.
When i played AC if someone unluckily dropped some important item on death, i would make them go to the forums and sing my praises then keep it bumped for 24 hours. Then i'd give them their gear back. (more times than not, they would just tell me to keep it, hehe)
I love it when people do the same thing to me. I love having a nemesis. I love being a nemesis.
BTW i am also one of the most giving gamers. I always sell things for less than what they are worth. I will talk to newbies literally for hours to help them learn the game. If i see a new player, i won't normally give them cash, but i will log onto my crafters and make them whatever they need.
I love FFAPvP. I hope that any new game will have a server reserved for FFAPvP, and i hope that the devs will try to balance the game so that players can choose any style of play and remain competitive.
Which FF Character Are You?
PvP with a purpose is fun, even if I'm on the receiving end. If I wander into the wrong place in EVE, I get killed for being a trespasser. In Guild Wars, it's a competition for the top place.
However, PvP with no purpose just promotes ganking. There's really no reason to PvP in World of Warcraft and Everquest 2, so all the people who want to PvP attack those that don't want to. Of course, there'll be those that say "If you don't like PVP, don't play on a PVP server." The difference is that people who play on a PVP server like PVP, not random gankings.
Ganking is part of PvP...
PvP is Player vs. Player, can't live up to it, get out!
Have fun
.
Seriously, you should know that by joining a PvP server or an MMO based on PvP, there will be some sort of ganking. I have NEVER seen a system that stops the ganking with Open PvP.
But, I like ganking and griefing. Want to repeatedly kill your enemies? I say you should be able to! It is fun trying to be the best, even if it means taking a few hits on the way
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~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
No, "Ganking" is a term refering to a.) attacking a lower level character where you already know you will win, or b.) attacking another player who has been weakened or unaware, again, where you already know you will win. or c.) attacking a player when you have greater numbers, once again, you already know you will win.
That's not PvP, that's Player vs. A-hole. I deal with that enough in RL.
I'm not saying that this isn't gonna happen occasionally for any kind of player. But the players who soley go around "ganking" people as their only means of enjoyment, ruin the game for everyone.
I fail to see the skill involved in any of these tactics, but as long as it makes you feel good about yourself.......just know that every time you do it, you bring your utopian dream of a perfect FFA PvP system that much closer to dying. You are effectivley killing your own fun, so when it's dead and gone it'll be no ones fault but your own.
The Millenium Lee
Here's an idea that would work for me. Say Griefer A sneaks up and ganks Noob B. Noob B looses half of his items. The game then detects that Griefer A ganked a lower level player and flags him as a PKer, making it so that all of his items can be looted if he dies including a % of his cash as a bounty, and sends a system message to the region annoucing what he had just done and he pops up on everyone's radar.
FFA PvP w/ consequences.
The Millenium Lee
Then you open the door to whole other flavors of greifing if the penalty is enough to be scary. Mob someome with lower-level characters, and if they defend themselves they get the flag. "First blow" doesn't really matter since you can just crowd the high-level guy and get him to accidentally swing at one, or have a higher-level guy start the fight, or a host of other things. Forget ever using AOE attacks against an organized group, they'll have lowbie somewhere nearby ready to make you get flagged. The perfect healer to have is one low enough to flag people your level if they attack. You also greatly increase the power of the gank squad, since a group of several near-level guys can wander around ganking my low-level buddies, secure in the knowledge that if I help I'll get stuck with the flag.
The point of open PVP is not that if I trick you or game the system that I can flag you for worse penalties and being on everyone's radar.
Ok, so lets simplify. Griefer A (lev 60) attacks Noob B (lev 10). Griefer A obviously wins, but gets nothing for his efforts, and Noob B gets no penalties for dying. Griefer A attacks Player C (lev 25) and gets one random item. Griefer A attacks Player D (lev 50) and gets half his items. Griefer A attacks Griefer E (both lev 60) gets full loot drop. What I'm getting at is that you can't have griefing players running around killing all the Noobs and taking all their stuff. I've seen it time and time again. The Noobs just simply stop playing, and face it guys, Noobs are the IV line of any MMORPG. Hate them as you may, you NEED them for your game to continue.
Oh, and Pan? Remind me to always be on your side while playing the same MMORPG.
The Millenium Lee
There really doesn't have to be some overly dramtic penalty. Something as small as losing faction with your home town for a dihonorable kill could work if done well. increased repair costs (or disposables etc) add up faster than you would think. I mean f you have areason to kill a real threat to your side you should have a reason to allow peons to live to carry your infamy to the major cities.
Just a thought. Free for all doesn't mean no consequences, just the option to kill anyone anywhere. heck, why does there have to be the standard 2 faction setup? If you want to kill anyone anywhere then maybe you should be restricted to fringe cities or such. heck there is the potential for real plot in that,.
I really agree with you. FFA PvP is a mistake for any developer if they don't put enough effort into it; which is just about every mmo that released a game with FFA PvP. Its exactly like the original poster said. The lifeline of an mmo are the new people. If they are getting griefed then the game is no fun and they leave and tell thier friends about thier bad experiences and now you really limit your player pool.
A game with FFA PvP should have consequences, or at the least limitations. This is one great Aspect to SilkRoad. Its FFA PvP when your level 20 or above, or choose to flag yourself at level 10. Then PvP plays an element into the game with merchant caravans, Thieves, and those who protect caravans from thieves. The system is surprisingly good at making sure people don't get mad about being murdered.
Another solution is the bounty system and restricting newbie areas from having PvP.
The thing people enjoy about FFA PvP is that it takes away a limitation in the game and gives the game more freedom; but FFA PvP is also a double edged sword.
There really doesn't have to be some overly dramtic penalty. Something as small as losing faction with your home town for a dihonorable kill could work if done well. increased repair costs (or disposables etc) add up faster than you would think. I mean f you have areason to kill a real threat to your side you should have a reason to allow peons to live to carry your infamy to the major cities.
Just a thought. Free for all doesn't mean no consequences, just the option to kill anyone anywhere. heck, why does there have to be the standard 2 faction setup? If you want to kill anyone anywhere then maybe you should be restricted to fringe cities or such. heck there is the potential for real plot in that,.
Your right, that might work for rational thinking, level minded people. However, as stated earlier, a very few can give the majority a bad name. It really only takes a very small % of the PvPing public to make a game hell for new players. This small % is not going to care about faction points or not being able to go to cities. They will have alts and friends to do their bidding in these places. They are also not going to give a flying F about the peons and will just slay them, cause face it. Dead or alive the peon is still gonna remember who killed him. The problem with Open PvP that no company has really mastered yet, is that they set up a very strict heirarchy, where the Griefers who get in early sit at the top and dictate to the rest of the players how the game is played(yes, this happens on all MMO's, but in Open PvP it effects everyone). They get to stay there cause they are the most powerfull and everyone else is just fodder. Some of you guys ASSUME people will act honorably in these systems, but Pantastic (just from your posts I can see this) and I KNOW that at least a good % will act the exact opposite and abuse anything and everything possible.
LOL, while on this topic, have any of you seen SWG's new plan for Bounty Systems?
The Millenium Lee
