I'm never one to condone the exploits of any mmo game title however I have to say something in this case.
This is the type of atmosphere this particular developer has worked hard to create with this game title. They went out of their way with this title to make a game in which people could basically do anything they want and not get penalized for it. They made the game teach the people that it's okay to even turn on your own and you'd never get anything more than a slap on the wrist, that you could steal from others if you wish, and never hear anything about it.
So when I see them swing the ban hammer their statements are empty because of the way they developed the community in this particular game title.
Frankly the developers are just as influential on the types of players they attract as they are on the genre so when they say they'll enforce rules like this it comes as an empty response to something they helped create in a game designed like this.
Which part of permanently banned are you not understanding?
What part of Now do not go and unban them next week are you not understanding?
You still white knighting this game?
At what point next week can I call you out on this?
Permanent bans do not get reversed - period.
This is one of those infamous AA form myths, temporary bans expire and people get unbanned.
Permanent do not.
So Sunday next week - let's see how many permanent bans are reversed?
You cant call me out on anything.
I did not say the ban would get reversed next week.
Honestly I dont care what happens in this game. It was dead to me a long time ago.
[mod edit]
The toxic community that this game has amassed is one of its worst deterrents. And its a mentality that was condoned and encouraged by Trion very early on during its initial NA release. They wanted AA to be the equivalent of an EVE on mules and at sea. I don't think this decision has worked out in their favor and I hope it sets a precedent for future games to avoid. Unfortunately, its the type of community that is generally prevalent in games that allow for OWPvP so I'm not sure how much more of a difference taking a different route would have made.
What funny is if you go on AA forums there are actually people arguing that the punishment is to harsh. Saying because AA is a sandbox and people should be able to do what they want.
AA seems to be filled with cheaters and idiots alike.
It's incredibly weird how, in a sandbox, abusing exploits is considered a part of the sandbox itself.
What funny is if you go on AA forums there are actually people arguing that the punishment is to harsh. Saying because AA is a sandbox and people should be able to do what they want.
AA seems to be filled with cheaters and idiots alike.
It's incredibly weird how, in a sandbox, abusing exploits is considered a part of the sandbox itself.
Although I agree with both of your sentiments, it really isn't that surprising that a good portion of AA's community would defend/support this type of act/behavior since it is the type of act/behavior that AA has consistently condoned and encouraged. As a result, it has amassed the type of community that would sympathize and support this type of act/behavior. It's the whole "birds-of-a-feather-flock-together" sort of community mentality.
First of all I do not play AA anymore. I got disgusted with the whole duping / bots / hack land grabbing / refusal to roll back servers. However I do not see this as a hack or cheating. It is using game mechanics to barricade a boss which I think is actually smart. I dont see this any different than standing on high ground with an archer / mage where melee people can not hit you. Trion could patch it out, but I think a permanent ban is way too high in this case.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Not so. What other choice would they have? Do you think they really should have stopped fighting and camped or wiped? That's ridiculous. If you think that, you live in a a fairy tale land.
So you're telling me that if someone knows a bug exists that will make a mob unable to fight back, and they do whatever is necessary to trigger that bug so they can then kill the mob and take the rewards, that isn't an exploit?
I don't know if that's what happened in this case and, frankly, I don't care. I'm just pointing out that just because something is a bug, doesn't mean it can't be exploited.
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Since the guy already (allegedly) tried to blackmail them which (allegedly) caused the ban in the first place I would expect it to be something pretty harsh.
You can stop typing "allegedly", this info came directly from Trion.
And we believe them? Its alleged until the person accuse admits it or is found to have said it by someone other than the accuser.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Not so. What other choice would they have? Do you think they really should have stopped fighting and camped or wiped? That's ridiculous. If you think that, you live in a a fairy tale land.
So you're telling me that if someone knows a bug exists that will make a mob unable to fight back, and they do whatever is necessary to trigger that bug so they can then kill the mob and take the rewards, that isn't an exploit?
I don't know if that's what happened in this case and, frankly, I don't care. I'm just pointing out that just because something is a bug, doesn't mean it can't be exploited.
It was not a bug. It was using game mechanics as leverage. Banable? Not in a sandbox IMHO.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Not so. What other choice would they have? Do you think they really should have stopped fighting and camped or wiped? That's ridiculous. If you think that, you live in a a fairy tale land.
So you're telling me that if someone knows a bug exists that will make a mob unable to fight back, and they do whatever is necessary to trigger that bug so they can then kill the mob and take the rewards, that isn't an exploit?
I don't know if that's what happened in this case and, frankly, I don't care. I'm just pointing out that just because something is a bug, doesn't mean it can't be exploited.
It was not a bug. It was using game mechanics as leverage. Banable? Not in a sandbox IMHO.
It would make absolutely no financial sense for Trion to ban an entire guild just for "using game mechanic as leverage".
I don't buy it.
Actually I think the ban was more about what transpired after than the actual act of the kill.
So, why didn't Trion fix it before it could be "exploited"?
Sounds like a bug to me, rather than an exploit; otherwise, Trion would (or should) have fixed it a little more quickly, in order to prevent people from "exploiting".
Trion can't fix it.
Then Trion can not be leftin charge of managing this game, regardless of the developers
So, why didn't Trion fix it before it could be "exploited"?
Sounds like a bug to me, rather than an exploit; otherwise, Trion would (or should) have fixed it a little more quickly, in order to prevent people from "exploiting".
Trion can't fix it.
Then Trion can not be leftin charge of managing this game, regardless of the developers
Does Trion fix this stuff or do they first have to report to xlgames? That's the question id ask before flaming Trion.
Tons people still play the game even if people hate whats Trion/Xlgames is doing with the model of the game but people still play it and drop money in to it.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Um it's exploiting a bug. Exploiting is simply taking advantage of something in game that wasn't designed to be done that way. Sometimes it's a bug and other times it's an oversight, but both examples are exploits. LOTRO had tons of them in their Moria instances that everyone knew about, such as staying in doorways to easily kill bosses.
But as you said, exploiting a bug isn't perma ban worthy and neither is not reporting it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I never had interest in AA but it seems to me like this is not a "bannable" offense unless the guild was doing it a lot farming it over and over. From the recap it sounded like the just did it once. So why not just remove the loot they gained from it and tell them not to do it again?
Think one thing missed out was the guilds main intension wasn't to exploit. Watched the actual guilds video, the fight started normally then about at 80 - 90% the mob started glicthing out and they just rolled with it.
Tbh been in that situation so many times where a mob just gets stuck and I jump on the advantage of it and can bet so many gamers have lol.
Even after saying that, they should have just owned up to it, explained that it was never planned, show the fottage and they would have been fine.
OK 1st here, i am all for people getting banned if they did things intentionally or used exploits or other means to cheat. There they have done it and it was intended to be done.
What I read here is that they were fighting this boss mob and it started to glitch/go buggy when it was 80-90% dead. Like anyone else, they would concentrate on killing it asap as i have seen many others both guilds and randoms do the same thing when things like that start to happen.
Either way, if it was not intentional, then banning is rather harsh here.
Trion also need to sort some of their games out anyways that they are running.
I have not been in rift for a while, have jumped in and out of Defiance on occasion. Archage was utterly shit and is just a pure money sink anyways (you need to both be a subscriber and use the cash shop on a regular basis). Devilian i have stopped playing as there is nothing to do, is rather boring, whole guilds leave and after the 5th guild left that i was in i decided to say sod it as well and have not logged in for the past week or 2.
Think that as Laced Opium pointed out, "Don't do crime if you can't do time" describe perfectly the situation.
You have the freedom to try and exploit the system at your heart content. Just be prepared because is very possible that you get caught and punished for it.
Especially when fighting major bosses expect that there is some kind of meters or controls running in background. Also.. posting a video that show the exploit is not... eh... how to say.. at least.. smart to do?
I think is more... dignified if you get caught to take the punishment and restart.
I don't know if is true that someone can be so stupid to try and blackmail the company that run the game, it might be just an exaggeration... but if someone did it, well... eh... if you poke a tiger don't cry if it take your hand off with a bite.
Personally i think is more satisfying to beat the game following the rules, the challenge is all there, if you remove the challenge.. eh.. no point in playing the game.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Yea, but if done once just delete the loot or even give'em a temp ban. Perma-bans should be for repeated violations or exploits done over weeks or months. If I'm hyped to kill a boss and get him down to 70% it takes a lot to stop because of a bug. "OK, guys it's bugged now! Everyone stop!" I don't think so...
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Our product is flawed, let's get rid of some of our customers.
Here the problem people complain that Trion is not banning people for cheating then now they did ban people for cheating then people complain that Trion did ban people.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Yea, but if done once just delete the loot or even give'em a temp ban. Perma-bans should be for repeated violations or exploits done over weeks or months. If I'm hyped to kill a boss and get him down to 70% it takes a lot to stop because of a bug. "OK, guys it's bugged now! Everyone stop!" I don't think so...
Yup, I agree. Permabanning a whole guild for a glitch exploit, even if it was Leviathan, smells of publicity stunt to me. Trion has been embroiled in a PR war since the AA launch. This has more to do with that than with anything else.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What funny is if you go on AA forums there are actually people arguing that the punishment is to harsh. Saying because AA is a sandbox and people should be able to do what they want.
AA seems to be filled with cheaters and idiots alike.
Agreed. Crap community for sure. I remember jerks blocking bridges with their carts, or passages with their boats just to troll. These were non-pvp areas so you could not do anything about it. Heard the same thing...."it's a sandbox!" crap.
That kind of behavior was unique to trion's na-eu server. When it was brought up in reddit even russian AA players were surprised that NA/EU players play the game like that. XLGames outright said they are not going to code restriction for these kind of things since neither KR nor RUS version players ever exploited the game like this, Trion has to do the dirty work themselves. So trion did, now it is an offense that can get people banned even if they block roads or pathways in even conflicted or warzones.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Comments
This is the type of atmosphere this particular developer has worked hard to create with this game title. They went out of their way with this title to make a game in which people could basically do anything they want and not get penalized for it. They made the game teach the people that it's okay to even turn on your own and you'd never get anything more than a slap on the wrist, that you could steal from others if you wish, and never hear anything about it.
So when I see them swing the ban hammer their statements are empty because of the way they developed the community in this particular game title.
Frankly the developers are just as influential on the types of players they attract as they are on the genre so when they say they'll enforce rules like this it comes as an empty response to something they helped create in a game designed like this.
The toxic community that this game has amassed is one of its worst deterrents. And its a mentality that was condoned and encouraged by Trion very early on during its initial NA release. They wanted AA to be the equivalent of an EVE on mules and at sea. I don't think this decision has worked out in their favor and I hope it sets a precedent for future games to avoid. Unfortunately, its the type of community that is generally prevalent in games that allow for OWPvP so I'm not sure how much more of a difference taking a different route would have made.
It's incredibly weird how, in a sandbox, abusing exploits is considered a part of the sandbox itself.
Although I agree with both of your sentiments, it really isn't that surprising that a good portion of AA's community would defend/support this type of act/behavior since it is the type of act/behavior that AA has consistently condoned and encouraged. As a result, it has amassed the type of community that would sympathize and support this type of act/behavior. It's the whole "birds-of-a-feather-flock-together" sort of community mentality.
I don't know if that's what happened in this case and, frankly, I don't care. I'm just pointing out that just because something is a bug, doesn't mean it can't be exploited.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Then Trion can not be leftin charge of managing this game, regardless of the developers
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
Wonder if they will keep this enforced or change the ban in a week.
Tons people still play the game even if people hate whats Trion/Xlgames is doing with the model of the game but people still play it and drop money in to it.
Um it's exploiting a bug. Exploiting is simply taking advantage of something in game that wasn't designed to be done that way. Sometimes it's a bug and other times it's an oversight, but both examples are exploits. LOTRO had tons of them in their Moria instances that everyone knew about, such as staying in doorways to easily kill bosses.
But as you said, exploiting a bug isn't perma ban worthy and neither is not reporting it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
OK 1st here, i am all for people getting banned if they did things intentionally or used exploits or other means to cheat. There they have done it and it was intended to be done.
What I read here is that they were fighting this boss mob and it started to glitch/go buggy when it was 80-90% dead. Like anyone else, they would concentrate on killing it asap as i have seen many others both guilds and randoms do the same thing when things like that start to happen.
Either way, if it was not intentional, then banning is rather harsh here.
Trion also need to sort some of their games out anyways that they are running.
I have not been in rift for a while, have jumped in and out of Defiance on occasion. Archage was utterly shit and is just a pure money sink anyways (you need to both be a subscriber and use the cash shop on a regular basis). Devilian i have stopped playing as there is nothing to do, is rather boring, whole guilds leave and after the 5th guild left that i was in i decided to say sod it as well and have not logged in for the past week or 2.
You have the freedom to try and exploit the system at your heart content. Just be prepared because is very possible that you get caught and punished for it.
Especially when fighting major bosses expect that there is some kind of meters or controls running in background. Also.. posting a video that show the exploit is not... eh... how to say.. at least.. smart to do?
I think is more... dignified if you get caught to take the punishment and restart.
I don't know if is true that someone can be so stupid to try and blackmail the company that run the game, it might be just an exaggeration... but if someone did it, well... eh... if you poke a tiger don't cry if it take your hand off with a bite.
Personally i think is more satisfying to beat the game following the rules, the challenge is all there, if you remove the challenge.. eh.. no point in playing the game.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5120/7210363296_8357bee9de.jpg
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That kind of behavior was unique to trion's na-eu server. When it was brought up in reddit even russian AA players were surprised that NA/EU players play the game like that. XLGames outright said they are not going to code restriction for these kind of things since neither KR nor RUS version players ever exploited the game like this, Trion has to do the dirty work themselves. So trion did, now it is an offense that can get people banned even if they block roads or pathways in even conflicted or warzones.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.