Again, an argument could be made that it is as much strategically tactical as it is exploitive.
I agree, though it was clear that they were exploiting the situation, I could very well see people saying "let's use the tools at our disposal to block it off much like any sandbox game would allow.
I think it's their behavior during and afterwards that is a larger issue.
They could have reached out to Trion to make sure it was legit. And if they then indeed tried to blackmail the developers (what idiot would actually think that would work?) then that would mean that they knew what they did was a huge exploit.
That's a much better argument for the issuance of a ban. The fact that they were given the opportunity to reconcile but instead decided to double down and continue to deceive and deny, much less further an attempt to blackmail and then boast about the act, is reason enough for punitive action. Despite my devil's advocate PoV, I do not question that the punishment is deserved.
So using the environment to give you a tactical edge is exploitation? As I said before something that should have been fixed long ago is on the Devs not the players.
I rated agree, but with a qualification. The subsequent interaction between the players and the devs, I understand, was another factor in the disciplinary action. None admitted to the devs there was "constructive use of game tactics", and further, a couple were insolent to the point of demanding gratuity for the "truth", all while willingly collecting and making use of the encounter's rewards.
I dunno. Like I said, my opinion is that the players knew the process and didn't really need to "use questionable tactics", and that's really my whole opinion in the thread. They took an unnecessary risk, were rude about it, devs did what devs have right to do in refusing service for whatever reason they see fit.
Golelorn said: What other choice would they have? Do you think they really should have stopped fighting and camped or wiped? That's ridiculous.
Why? It's just a game. People lose all the time, otherwise it wouldn't be fun. They probably didn't expect to win anyway, since they got the world first.
We can't trust a company like this imagine i just only killing mobs, doing traderun, mining and i get reported. I question my self did i get wrong? Sometimes i full into a ground not intended and i see very weird graphic. After of that you get banned because the program detected you doing something wrong. Example: Sometimes i accidentally walk like a ghost in the game and the other player reported me a hacker. This is happen to my guildies and friend before.
Does this really matter? The game is filled with exploiters and cheaters. The only people in the game that dont do it are new people trying out the game that will leave in a month or two when they realize they will not own property due to those people or realize they cant compete if they dont do it also.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Does this really matter? The game is filled with exploiters and cheaters. The only people in the game that dont do it are new people trying out the game that will leave in a month or two when they realize they will not own property due to those people or realize they cant compete if they dont do it also.
Please don't comment about something you don't know about. It is obvious from your post that you don't play the game anymore. So stop misguiding people by spreading ignorance.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Apparently people don't bother reading previous comments before posting. Several times it was said the glitch did not just occur, it was forced by the guild to occur so that they could kill the mob easily. Still people are arguing they were wrongly banned for experiencing something out of their control. Ignorance in this forums is at utter ridiculous level. Have fun with your persecution mania guys.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Nothin wrong with blocking stuff right. If they can do it to real peeps blocking paths with carts so peeps can progress why not mobs. Or has that policy changed yet ? :P
@jesteralways there have been more than one raid guild, not some "innocent" guild in the EU that accidentally exploited. I'm talking about Trion's buddy guilds that they hand pick to test and balance raid content. I'm talking about multiple top raid guilds that exploited and botted fishing. I'm talking about tons of people that use exploits on dungeon runs daily.
This guild exploited. They deserve to get hammered. A blanket perma ban seems harsh, but whatever. The bigger issue is Trion's poor and inconsistent management of their games. It's not the end of the world but they definitely deserve some flak over it as well. Most major publishers (Blizz, EA, Zos, NC) don't put themselves in a position to be criticized for favoritism and inconsistent management of their games and how they discipline.
There are now only 4 guilds in eu and na combined that Raid these days. And apart from some jealous guild who "used to be top eu/na raiding guild in wow, never seen such bad management before" i have not seen many complains about exploiting raids in Rift, when it was truly a exploit a Trion always did the right thing. Just like recent event they took away loot from them and if necessary banned them for a week or 2, yeah did not perma ban them, so if you wanna nitpick as to why now they perma banned in this case, read my explanation regarding how they forced leviathan to glitch. And also boasting in game how Trion will not ban them because they spend money? Yeah i don't see Trion taking that insult so lightly.
Regarding fishing exploiting by guilds, again they were dealt with by taking away achievement, loots, achievement mounts and pets and even ban for a week or more. It has nothing to do with favoritism. Your complain is valid only in your mind since you made it up that Trion only did injustice to you or your guild and showed leniency to their favorite pets. Grow up man.
As for botting in fishing and dungeon, as i have said in my previous post they could weekly release the number of bots and cheaters they are banning but you would still say it is a PR decision.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
What incompetence? If you find a bug (known or not) and instead of reporting it you exploit it to your advantage (specially if you trigger it), you deserve the permanent ban.
If you really are a software developer you should know this is not a peace of cake. Also, people seem to forget XL games does the coding and patching, Trion doesnt. Yes they should be more agile about it, but it doesnt change the fact that someone is exploiting said bug to their advantage. That deserves a ban.
Starts out normal for 15 minutes then bugs out, think if this was intentional they would have from the start.
They dumped a whole bunch of metals and lumber into the ocean with the specific intention of making this happen. Just because it took 15 min for it to actually work, doesn't change the fact that this was done completely on purpose.
No glitch here, no buggy code, and no accident
Ah if there is proof of this being the case here, then perma-ban makes sense
Not only that, but someone in the guild reached out to Trion afterwards and tried to blackmail them (offering details of how they did it, in return for in game items and boosts).....how this player doesn't realize that Trion has access to all of the game logs, is beyond me lol.
Watched the whole video. Everyone knew it was bugged. Comments like, what will Trion do when they find out we killed it anchors down. I dont feel bad for people who cheat. I think perma ban is a little rich with how most of the game is made of cheaters. I dont think anyone top level and doing well got their honest in this game. But I guess this is one way to start turning things around.
I would think a punishment short of this could have achieved the same deterrent effect ; e.g., loss of loot and 2 week ban? In progression raiding 2 weeks is an eternity.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
At the end of the day a decision was made (the right decision in my opinion).
The boss glitched (intentionally or unintentionally). Then the raid
leader told the boat in the middle to not move as it may remove the
glitch (very bad move there)
They continued to attack the glitched boss until dead. During this time
they could have stopped attacking a glitched boss and send in a report.
(nobody did)
After they downed the boss they looted it. During this time, again they could have sent in a report and again... nobody did
Someone DID however report the incident that was not in the raid or the guild AND posted their video on the
forums while RQ members build up the galleon and upgraded it and went
for a joy ride. Others arrogantly boasted on the forums and in the game
chats, while one trolled that he had the guild's video and only would
release it if he was compensated for it (it has been said he was
trolling but my reaction to it when I saw it was.. just wow...Truth? I don't
think he was trolling, and in fact I felt he was serious, but that is
only my opinion). Again they had plenty of time to send in a report...
again nobody did from that raid or the guild.
Now I see the excuse, "well others reported it so it was thought that we did not need to report it". A very bad move indeed.
Could anyone in that raid have reported this incident at any time? Yes
they could have but not one had the moral cajones to step up to the
plate and take the higher ground to do so. Again a very bad move.
I see many taking a soapbox out and saying, "but they did not deserve a
perma ban". I disagree because everyone in that raid could have stepped
up and did the right thing and not one did. At the end of the day
everyone of those players put their OWN accounts in danger by not doing
the right thing.
To say an individual player cannot do the right thing because of peer
pressure is really a lame excuse to pass the buck. Every last player
from RQ in that raid was just as guilty as the leader calling the shots.
They followed blindly and did not think for themselves. If someone told
you to go jump that cliff over there and you knew for certain you would
die due to gravity, would you really blindly do as you were told? Or
better yet, your mate hands you a gun and tells you to go shoot that guy
over there would you, even knowing you would be arrested and tried for
murder, go do as you were told?
The game has rules you agreed to when you started playing. The rules
were broken and now the consequences have been handed out. Fair or not,
those were the rules that each and everyone that plays this game has
agreed to. Break the rules, face the consequences.
It does not matter how much or how little any of those member
participated in the raid. The fact they did participate and did not step
up to say, "no this is wrong we need to stop and report this" is where
each and everyone of them became guilty of taking advantage of a
glitch/exploit.
Starts out normal for 15 minutes then bugs out, think if this was intentional they would have from the start.
They dumped a whole bunch of metals and lumber into the ocean with the specific intention of making this happen. Just because it took 15 min for it to actually work, doesn't change the fact that this was done completely on purpose.
No glitch here, no buggy code, and no accident
Ah if there is proof of this being the case here, then perma-ban makes sense
Not only that, but someone in the guild reached out to Trion afterwards and tried to blackmail them (offering details of how they did it, in return for in game items and boosts).....how this player doesn't realize that Trion has access to all of the game logs, is beyond me lol.
Watched the whole video. Everyone knew it was bugged. Comments like, what will Trion do when they find out we killed it anchors down. I dont feel bad for people who cheat. I think perma ban is a little rich with how most of the game is made of cheaters. I dont think anyone top level and doing well got their honest in this game. But I guess this is one way to start turning things around.
I am part of one of the largest guild in Ollo NA, i know almost all big shots and heroes on my server personally, the game population is not so big that after playing a while you would not get to know almost all active players personally. We are contesting CR,GR,OC, Kraken, Lusca with all the other guilds from both faction just to stay in the competition, I can say it without a doubt in my mind : "we do not exploit or cheat", none of the guilds does. Most of the guild that exploited during launch are all either disbanded or left the game. That is the situation in ollo, i can even speak for aranzheb, kyrios, tyhang; sure community there is a bit more hardcore and thus tend to grief players a lot but that doesn't mean they are cheating. The very recent example of mass exploiting was heart of ayanad dungeon, Trion made sure to take away all the gear design loot from it or those who crafted gears from them. You think people at top are doing dishonest thing, how long has it been since last time you played, was it not you saw bots and such during launch and decided to leave? If you don't play a game, don't come here and post "expert" comment about it's playerbase.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Comments
That's a much better argument for the issuance of a ban. The fact that they were given the opportunity to reconcile but instead decided to double down and continue to deceive and deny, much less further an attempt to blackmail and then boast about the act, is reason enough for punitive action. Despite my devil's advocate PoV, I do not question that the punishment is deserved.
I dunno. Like I said, my opinion is that the players knew the process and didn't really need to "use questionable tactics", and that's really my whole opinion in the thread. They took an unnecessary risk, were rude about it, devs did what devs have right to do in refusing service for whatever reason they see fit.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
If they can do it to real peeps blocking paths with carts so peeps can progress why not mobs.
Or has that policy changed yet ? :P
Regarding fishing exploiting by guilds, again they were dealt with by taking away achievement, loots, achievement mounts and pets and even ban for a week or more. It has nothing to do with favoritism. Your complain is valid only in your mind since you made it up that Trion only did injustice to you or your guild and showed leniency to their favorite pets. Grow up man.
As for botting in fishing and dungeon, as i have said in my previous post they could weekly release the number of bots and cheaters they are banning but you would still say it is a PR decision.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
There's nothing more gratifying than playing an MMO for free.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think that you need to check your own definitions. They exploited the bug.
They cheated, they got caught, they got punished. End of story.
No, but you can blame players if they exploit that bug to cheat.
Something like the Leviathan in AA is meant to be an epic epic first kill honour. These guys tried to steal that with a cheat.
What incompetence? If you find a bug (known or not) and instead of reporting it you exploit it to your advantage (specially if you trigger it), you deserve the permanent ban. If you really are a software developer you should know this is not a peace of cake. Also, people seem to forget XL games does the coding and patching, Trion doesnt. Yes they should be more agile about it, but it doesnt change the fact that someone is exploiting said bug to their advantage. That deserves a ban.
Watched the whole video. Everyone knew it was bugged. Comments like, what will Trion do when they find out we killed it anchors down. I dont feel bad for people who cheat. I think perma ban is a little rich with how most of the game is made of cheaters. I dont think anyone top level and doing well got their honest in this game. But I guess this is one way to start turning things around.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
OK, I'm seeing it the other way now. I still don't think a permaban is the punishment for that.
There's nothing more gratifying than playing an MMO for free.
The boss glitched (intentionally or unintentionally). Then the raid leader told the boat in the middle to not move as it may remove the glitch (very bad move there)
They continued to attack the glitched boss until dead. During this time they could have stopped attacking a glitched boss and send in a report. (nobody did)
After they downed the boss they looted it. During this time, again they could have sent in a report and again... nobody did
Someone DID however report the incident that was not in the raid or the guild AND posted their video on the forums while RQ members build up the galleon and upgraded it and went for a joy ride. Others arrogantly boasted on the forums and in the game chats, while one trolled that he had the guild's video and only would release it if he was compensated for it (it has been said he was trolling but my reaction to it when I saw it was.. just wow...Truth? I don't think he was trolling, and in fact I felt he was serious, but that is only my opinion). Again they had plenty of time to send in a report... again nobody did from that raid or the guild.
Now I see the excuse, "well others reported it so it was thought that we did not need to report it". A very bad move indeed.
Could anyone in that raid have reported this incident at any time? Yes they could have but not one had the moral cajones to step up to the plate and take the higher ground to do so. Again a very bad move.
I see many taking a soapbox out and saying, "but they did not deserve a perma ban". I disagree because everyone in that raid could have stepped up and did the right thing and not one did. At the end of the day everyone of those players put their OWN accounts in danger by not doing the right thing.
To say an individual player cannot do the right thing because of peer pressure is really a lame excuse to pass the buck. Every last player from RQ in that raid was just as guilty as the leader calling the shots. They followed blindly and did not think for themselves. If someone told you to go jump that cliff over there and you knew for certain you would die due to gravity, would you really blindly do as you were told? Or better yet, your mate hands you a gun and tells you to go shoot that guy over there would you, even knowing you would be arrested and tried for murder, go do as you were told?
The game has rules you agreed to when you started playing. The rules were broken and now the consequences have been handed out. Fair or not, those were the rules that each and everyone that plays this game has agreed to. Break the rules, face the consequences.
It does not matter how much or how little any of those member participated in the raid. The fact they did participate and did not step up to say, "no this is wrong we need to stop and report this" is where each and everyone of them became guilty of taking advantage of a glitch/exploit.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.