All Aspects of the Game Closely Eyed - Including Cash Shop

SBFord · February 2016

All Aspects of the Game Closely Eyed - Including Cash Shop

Over the past two days during the Black Desert Online open beta, much furor has arisen among players about the cash shop and its prices. Players seem to universally agree that the prices are much higher than expected particularly with a buy-to-play title. The controversy is raging on Reddit, on the official forums, our own forums and anywhere else that one of the most anticipated titles for 2016 is being discussed.

Read the full story here

tet666 · February 2016

This is by far the biggest scam i have seen in an MMO lately btw you Guys should pick this:
http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/15554-waiving-your-right-to-a-refund/
up as well is this even legal?

Nayr752 · February 2016

Game company being shady, why am I not surprised. lol

Celcius · February 2016

tet666 said:

This is by far the biggest scam i have seen in an MMO lately btw you Guys should pick this:

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/15554-waiving-your-right-to-a-refund/

up as well is this even legal?

Well, considering Steam only within the past year got a refund policy that wasn't "Everyone gets one", it is not entirely unexpected to not have refunds on digital products.

mnemic666 · February 2016

I will say that it's worth noting that WoW, a game with a box price AND a subscription, sells pets for $10 and mounts for $25 and receives little criticism. I mean, $10 for pets in a B2P game is fine, IMO. It's pretty similar to what we see in many cash shops so I don't get TTH's complaints about it.

The costume prices though...yeah, that's ludicrous. Absolutely worthy of heavy criticism.

tet666 said:

This is by far the biggest scam i have seen in an MMO lately btw you Guys should pick this:

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/15554-waiving-your-right-to-a-refund/

up as well is this even legal?

I'm not 100%, but not only has there not even been protection for refunds on digital purchases in gaming for quite some time (While not the first, Steam refunds for example are still very new) I believe that even agreeing to such a thing does not trump a law which guarantees the right to a refund. IIRC Europe has a few such laws and these laws cannot be superseded by ToS/EULA agreements. If I'm incorrect and someone knows otherwise though, please correct me.

RPGMASTERGAMER · February 2016

mnemic666 said:

I will say that it's worth noting that WoW, a game with a box price AND a subscription, sells pets for $10 and mounts for $25 and receives little criticism. I mean, $10 for pets in a B2P game is fine, IMO. It's pretty similar to what we see in many cash shops so I don't get TTH's complaints about it.

The costume prices though...yeah, that's ludicrous. Absolutely worthy of heavy criticism.

tet666 said:

This is by far the biggest scam i have seen in an MMO lately btw you Guys should pick this:

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/15554-waiving-your-right-to-a-refund/

up as well is this even legal?

I'm not 100%, but not only has there not even been protection for refunds on digital purchases in gaming for quite some time (While not the first, Steam refunds for example are still very new) I believe that even agreeing to such a thing does not trump a law which guarantees the right to a refund. IIRC Europe has a few such laws and these laws cannot be superseded by ToS/EULA agreements. If I'm incorrect and someone knows otherwise though, please correct me.

people got mostly problem with the item and the game being pay to win, for exemple the lastest f2p blade and soul got also pretty high item price in cash shop, but the item are mostly all comestic, while in black desert online they got stats, you can get a set who give you +30% exp, when you are level 50++ or after the soft cap that week of grinding less for someone who got this, and of course that only something small, the cash shop in black desert worst that the one in archeage where everyone have rage so hard, and they are not even at release date, it will be a bloody mess, but im kinda happy, they dont hide, they show the crap of the f2p games in all the glory, it will help people understand f2p game are not free and are a cancer in mmorpg.

Wylf · February 2016

Iller said:

Yeah he's right TET, go to any Real store and buy something. Eat half of it, or wear it around for a week and get it dirty, then try returning it. ...you'll be lucky if they don't throw you out of the place for being so entitled.

Playing a game on "Beta" is not remotely close to "Eat half of it, or wear it around for a week". I personally have rec'd refunds from Steam, and from first hand experience can state that in the US, most reputable stores have appropriate refund policies, Amazon, Sam's, Costco, Target, ect.

I will agree the word scam is an overstatement, but it does certainly show that the developers do not stand behind their product. Frankly this no refund policy alone should be a Red Flag to anyone thinking of buying the game.

Pepeq · February 2016

Wylf said:

Iller said:

Yeah he's right TET, go to any Real store and buy something. Eat half of it, or wear it around for a week and get it dirty, then try returning it. ...you'll be lucky if they don't throw you out of the place for being so entitled.
Playing a game on "Beta" is not remotely close to "Eat half of it, or wear it around for a week". I personally have rec'd refunds from Steam, and from first hand experience can state that in the US, most reputable stores have appropriate refund policies, Amazon, Sam's, Costco, Target, ect.
I will agree the word scam is an overstatement, but it does certainly show that the developers do not stand behind their product. Frankly this no refund policy alone should be a Red Flag to anyone thinking of buying the game.

Then do your due diligence and don't buy it. Water under the bridge my friend.

brickleul · February 2016

At least for EU players, the EU legislation waives any EULA/contract , and you can request a refund even after 30 days

Brenics · February 2016

This is exactly what i'm talking about, where we can't trust any developer. No matter what side of the ocean they are on.

I'm going to put my trust into the devs over at COE but it is getting hard to trust any of them.

linadragon · February 2016

brickleul said:

At least for EU players, the EU legislation waives any EULA/contract , and you can request a refund even after 30 days

They'd have to be able to ban your account to offer a refund in this case since it is b2p you'd have permanent access to something you need to pay for without actually paying for it otherwise...

linadragon · February 2016

tet666 said:

This is by far the biggest scam i have seen in an MMO lately btw you Guys should pick this:
http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/15554-waiving-your-right-to-a-refund/
up as well is this even legal?

Technically for a buy to play game etc yes it is legal. What is happening is that you are waiving your right to a refund to some extent because while you could do a charge back or a refund a buy to play title would also end up requiring them to ban your account in the process and deny you access which is where it comes up. Most pc games end up with a similar clause because once the key is used and you have it on your computer you can continually end up using the service.

I think it's a poor choice of "wording" to say waiving a right to a refund entirely and it should be more "While we can refund you we will revoke access to the game if we issue a refund to you"

Hell most software in general has a similar legal clause simply because of the way software works =/

Seelinnikoi · February 2016

Don't forget that there is a huge difference from someone buying a T-shirt and using it for a week, and someone testing a digital product.
Seller most likely won't be able to sell the T-shirt back in a brand new condition... But the game company will...

So you can't really understand why the game company is so afraid to refund people.
Me thinks its a trap to get easy unrefundable sales after people play and discover the game is shite.

adderVXI · February 2016

Wait so people are mad cause the costumes and dyes are to spendy... Holy first world problems!

Jerid · February 2016

adderVXI said:

Wait so people are mad cause the costumes and dyes are to spendy... Holy first world problems!

They have extremely pay to win elements in a buy to play game. Also the prices are nearly double that of other games that are similar and free to play. Examples? ArcheAge for one.

nhat · February 2016

Nayr752 said:

Game company being shady, why am I not surprised. lol

You have to read it, they're not hiding anything, how the heck is that shady? Lol

Alomar · February 2016

Btw article starts off saying BDO Open Beta, it's a closed beta if a key is required. While I prefer games without cash shops, due to the lack of a wide variety of quality mmo's to pick from these days, I don't mind BDO's cash shop.

Several things do give you an edge, at least initially, like the ability to get a farm wagon or a fishing boat right off the bat. Yet, those aren't game breaking as both can be acquired by a casual player in days if not less. Most purchases really are cosmetic, as it should be. Seeing as this game often gets compared to AA, this cash shop is 25-50x less p2w.

If you want a refund, don't click the button that agrees you might not get one lol. Chargebacks are legit for pre-orders, but when used on released products it's just as shady as the activities some developers carry out. Do some research, read some reviews, watch some videos, wait for free trials. Too many people getting used to the entitlement that our immediate gratification society entails.

Wylf · February 2016

Pepeq said:

Wylf said:

Iller said:

Yeah he's right TET, go to any Real store and buy something. Eat half of it, or wear it around for a week and get it dirty, then try returning it. ...you'll be lucky if they don't throw you out of the place for being so entitled.
Playing a game on "Beta" is not remotely close to "Eat half of it, or wear it around for a week". I personally have rec'd refunds from Steam, and from first hand experience can state that in the US, most reputable stores have appropriate refund policies, Amazon, Sam's, Costco, Target, ect.
I will agree the word scam is an overstatement, but it does certainly show that the developers do not stand behind their product. Frankly this no refund policy alone should be a Red Flag to anyone thinking of buying the game.

Then do your due diligence and don't buy it. Water under the bridge my friend.

Not quite sure how "do your due diligence" applies to my comment, but completely agree, "don't buy it" and at this point for the OP and others who were unaware of the no refund policy it is indeed "Water under the bridge" it's time to move on and thanks for the info. :-)

garygallegos · February 2016

Jerid said:

adderVXI said:

Wait so people are mad cause the costumes and dyes are to spendy... Holy first world problems!

They have extremely pay to win elements in a buy to play game. Also the prices are nearly double that of other games that are similar and free to play. Examples? ArcheAge for one.

Total bullshit. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop spreading the lies you heard from someone. There are ZERO pay to win elements anywhere.

Distopia · February 2016

Brenics said:

This is exactly what i'm talking about, where we can't trust any developer. No matter what side of the ocean they are on.

I'm going to put my trust into the devs over at COE but it is getting hard to trust any of them.

You should never "trust" them to begin with, you should always approach it with a sense of knowing, they're trying hard to sell you something for as much as they can. These companies aren't friends, they're not buddies, they're salesman, whether they are indie or AAA. The indies are the worst to trust as they are trying the hardest to sell and become successful, they want a new day job...

spankybus · February 2016

garygallegos said:

tet666 said:

This is by far the biggest scam i have seen in an MMO lately btw you Guys should pick this:

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/15554-waiving-your-right-to-a-refund/

up as well is this even legal?

How is this shady? If you too ****ing stupid to read where it CLEARLY states you are waving your ability to get a refund then too bad.

"If you too ****ing stupid..."

That should be YOU'RE....just making sure you don't come off as, well, stupid :-)

Wylf · February 2016

garygallegos said:

Total bullshit. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop spreading the lies you heard from someone. There are ZERO pay to win elements anywhere.

Funny you should feel so passionate having only posted twice. Additionally there are numerous posts, videos, and screen shots that in fact prove that you are incorrect. But I will tell you if you enjoy the game, good for you. There are many games to choose from we all don't have to like the same ones.

BigRambo · February 2016

How many decades must pass until before people start understanding the concept of a good MMORPG? If it's not P2P, it's simply a waste of time, end of discussion. WoW / FF14 got it right and have a few million subs, and WoW being up since 2004 and still outperforms the last 20 titles combined, and the 20 titles being F2P, go figure.

Gaming.Rocks2 · February 2016

Distopia said:

Brenics said:

This is exactly what i'm talking about, where we can't trust any developer. No matter what side of the ocean they are on.

I'm going to put my trust into the devs over at COE but it is getting hard to trust any of them.

You should never "trust" them to begin with, you should always approach it with a sense of knowing, they're trying hard to sell you something for as much as they can. These companies aren't friends, they're not buddies, they're salesman, whether they are indie or AAA. The indies are the worst to trust as they are trying the hardest to sell and become successful, they want a new day job...

Although that's very true. And it works perfectly well when it comes down to single-player games. But since you will invest financially and emotionally in an MMORPG much more trust is a factor here.
You can always quit a game when they make decisions you don't like. You can always say hey I had my fun. But you might suffer a post-breakup syndrome since you can't get out of all your relationships intact.

Yeah I'm going to have a period of fun with BDO, if I got more out of it well lucky me. But for instance when it comes down to CoE, I need to trust them on some level before I can invest in that sort of an MMORPG again.

cyclonite51 · February 2016

I cancelled my preorder, this is a huge red flag.

garygallegos · February 2016

Wylf said:

garygallegos said:

Total bullshit. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop spreading the lies you heard from someone. There are ZERO pay to win elements anywhere.

Funny you should feel so passionate having only posted twice. Additionally there are numerous posts, videos, and screen shots that in fact prove that you are incorrect. But I will tell you if you enjoy the game, good for you. There are many games to choose from we all don't have to like the same ones.

Prove it. Prove I am wrong. And what does my post count have to do with anything?

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