The targeting isn't ever the issue. It's the everything else. We hated tab targeting because it felt sallow and repetitive, but it turns out that action combat can feel just as sallow and repetitive.
The argument I make for tab targeting is one lag. Two, it lets me fight well I chat, check my inventory, or plan out my skills.
Most action combat in MMORPG seems sloppy anyway. Like Tera was artificially stiff with certain classes. Then it can get tiresome to keep up all the moving and jumping after the thousandth time because of MMORPG grind. If it has predictive combat light show I am done lol.
Divinity Orginal Sin has had some of the craziest combat sequences and its not even real time combat.
I wonder why we can't get a mmo like divinity. It's that high degree of interaction you just don't see in a mmo.
There isn't a option in this poll, but turn based combat is something more mmos should play with. It works oddly well. It's lag resistant and it can be really complex and deep because you have time to think. It's the steps that games make to have their combat feel more actiony that don't work as well.
I am tab targeting for most MMO's, I have gotten older and it can be very intense on the wrist and metacarpals having to do action combat all the time. I don't mind it though just age catching up with me.
All 3 styles can be good, even though I've never seen an FPS/TPS MMO outside of Planetside that was good ( they're mostly insanely bad like Darkfail).
I do think TAB target games need to innovate instead of just copy pasting the WoW model over and over. Turn on Autoattack/spam your primary no CD low/no resource damage ability is painfully outdated. "Fireball fireball fireball fireball" just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I'm looking for more complexity and there's nothing about TAB targeting that should prevent games from having it. I think SWTOR did a decent job of adding some complexity to the WoW model, while FFXIV and to a lesser extent Rift came up short.
I think the soft target system of ESO, B&S and BDO is enjoyable, but it's probably the worst of the options. You have the simplicity of a TAB target game as you only need to hold your cursor over them to activate an ability, combined with all of the unreliable targeting that comes along with that system. B&S is often infuriating in that you can't target the person you want to in a crowd and end up wasting a CD because another target was infront of your intended victim for a split second, while with TAB or FPS I can hit exactly who I intend to. Or in B&S's case not being able to do what you want because you can't target anyone because they're stealthed, behind cover, etc.
Example: you're a force master and want to use Ice Block, but you can't get into frost stance to access it because the assassin that's about to kill you is in stealth. I have exactly the ability I need but I just can't get to it because of game mechanics. If it was TERA I could just right click and shoot a frost palm at the air, then use the ability I want, but B&S can't do that with its soft locking system.
Of all the systems I've played, I would say TERA and GW2 work the best. They're fluid, complex, skillful (well, not so much GW2 since HoT) and reliable systems that generally do what you want them to without any frustrating mechanics.
All 3 styles can be good, even though I've never seen an FPS/TPS MMO outside of Planetside that was good ( they're mostly insanely bad like Darkfail).
I do think TAB target games need to innovate instead of just copy pasting the WoW model over and over. Turn on Autoattack/spam your primary no CD low/no resource damage ability is painfully outdated. "Fireball fireball fireball fireball" just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I'm looking for more complexity and there's nothing about TAB targeting that should prevent games from having it. I think SWTOR did a decent job of adding some complexity to the WoW model, while FFXIV and to a lesser extent Rift came up short.
I think the soft target system of ESO, B&S and BDO is enjoyable, but it's probably the worst of the options. You have the simplicity of a TAB target game as you only need to hold your cursor over them to activate an ability, combined with all of the unreliable targeting that comes along with that system. B&S is often infuriating in that you can't target the person you want to in a crowd and end up wasting a CD because another target was infront of your intended victim for a split second, while with TAB or FPS I can hit exactly who I intend to. Or in B&S's case not being able to do what you want because you can't target anyone because they're stealthed, behind cover, etc.
Example: you're a force master and want to use Ice Block, but you can't get into frost stance to access it because the assassin that's about to kill you is in stealth. I have exactly the ability I need but I just can't get to it because of game mechanics. If it was TERA I could just right click and shoot a frost palm at the air, then use the ability I want, but B&S can't do that with its soft locking system.
Of all the systems I've played, I would say TERA and GW2 work the best. They're fluid, complex, skillful (well, not so much GW2 since HoT) and reliable systems that generally do what you want them to without any frustrating mechanics.
Darkfall, not unholy wars, had my favorite combat. Care to elaborate on why you dislike it?
All 3 styles can be good, even though I've never seen an FPS/TPS MMO outside of Planetside that was good ( they're mostly insanely bad like Darkfail).
I do think TAB target games need to innovate instead of just copy pasting the WoW model over and over. Turn on Autoattack/spam your primary no CD low/no resource damage ability is painfully outdated. "Fireball fireball fireball fireball" just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I'm looking for more complexity and there's nothing about TAB targeting that should prevent games from having it. I think SWTOR did a decent job of adding some complexity to the WoW model, while FFXIV and to a lesser extent Rift came up short.
I think the soft target system of ESO, B&S and BDO is enjoyable, but it's probably the worst of the options. You have the simplicity of a TAB target game as you only need to hold your cursor over them to activate an ability, combined with all of the unreliable targeting that comes along with that system. B&S is often infuriating in that you can't target the person you want to in a crowd and end up wasting a CD because another target was infront of your intended victim for a split second, while with TAB or FPS I can hit exactly who I intend to. Or in B&S's case not being able to do what you want because you can't target anyone because they're stealthed, behind cover, etc.
Example: you're a force master and want to use Ice Block, but you can't get into frost stance to access it because the assassin that's about to kill you is in stealth. I have exactly the ability I need but I just can't get to it because of game mechanics. If it was TERA I could just right click and shoot a frost palm at the air, then use the ability I want, but B&S can't do that with its soft locking system.
Of all the systems I've played, I would say TERA and GW2 work the best. They're fluid, complex, skillful (well, not so much GW2 since HoT) and reliable systems that generally do what you want them to without any frustrating mechanics.
Darkfall, not unholy wars, had my favorite combat. Care to elaborate on why you dislike it?
I never played the original Darkfall, only Unholy Wars -- Which I thoroughly enjoy the combat system.
Care to elaborate? From what I've seen in videos they are the exact same system -- save for height differences and stats. Is this what you are referring to?
Darkfall, not unholy wars, had my favorite combat. Care to elaborate on why you dislike it?
It was simplistic with no depth or real strategy. Melee combat was a trainwreck of two spazzes circle strafing and slapping at each other while stuffing their face with berries. Ranged was two people sprinting erratically and bunny hopping while spamming the same attack over and over.
It was literally the worst combat I've ever experienced in an MMO and it's not close. I can't even think of another game where the combat was just flat out bad. Which sucks, because I was all aboard the Darfail hype train before playing it and felt terrible about convincing a bunch of people to buy the game.
Darkfall, not unholy wars, had my favorite combat. Care to elaborate on why you dislike it?
It was simplistic with no depth or real strategy. Melee combat was a trainwreck of two spazzes circle strafing and slapping at each other while stuffing their face with berries. Ranged was two people sprinting erratically and bunny hopping while spamming the same attack over and over.
It was literally the worst combat I've ever experienced in an MMO and it's not close. I can't even think of another game where the combat was just flat out bad. Which sucks, because I was all aboard the Darfail hype train before playing it and felt terrible about convincing a bunch of people to buy the game.
i dont think fps games are you thing then..
The combat in darkfall is the strongest aspect of the game..
There is no single mmo on the market that offers more player skill combat combat then darkfall
how long did you play darkfall? or tried it? your opinion is complete irrevlant if you havent played the meta game
darkfall has over 150 skills.. im not even sure how you come with the same attack experience because there is a shitton of playstyles to our disposal
I am tab targeting for most MMO's, I have gotten older and it can be very intense on the wrist and metacarpals having to do action combat all the time. I don't mind it though just age catching up with me.
I know I come across as hating action combat, but I do enjoy it from time to time. I just can't play action combat for very long, though, before logging off to do something not computer related. I used to play tab target MMORPGs for whole weekends way back when, and tab targeting was one of the reasons why I could.
There is no single mmo on the market that offers more player skill combat combat then darkfall
Any e-sport MMO offers more player skill combat.
E-sport ...MMO. Lol
You do not know that e-sports is big for MMOs like World of Tanks?
Most people are calling something like WoT and LoL a MOBA.
Personally I think the leveling aspect exsists as a training/easing mechanic rather than a full advancement mechanic. First the levels don't punish you for not spending 2 hours learning 'build' mechanics and what everything does(IE you have 1 choice amongst 5 options). They also work great for sorting players around at the start of the game(A constant winner will level a little faster getting them out of the newbie bracket sooner, especially when combined with matchmaking).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
All 3 styles can be good, even though I've never seen an FPS/TPS MMO outside of Planetside that was good ( they're mostly insanely bad like Darkfail).
I do think TAB target games need to innovate instead of just copy pasting the WoW model over and over. Turn on Autoattack/spam your primary no CD low/no resource damage ability is painfully outdated. "Fireball fireball fireball fireball" just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I'm looking for more complexity and there's nothing about TAB targeting that should prevent games from having it. I think SWTOR did a decent job of adding some complexity to the WoW model, while FFXIV and to a lesser extent Rift came up short.
I think the soft target system of ESO, B&S and BDO is enjoyable, but it's probably the worst of the options. You have the simplicity of a TAB target game as you only need to hold your cursor over them to activate an ability, combined with all of the unreliable targeting that comes along with that system. B&S is often infuriating in that you can't target the person you want to in a crowd and end up wasting a CD because another target was infront of your intended victim for a split second, while with TAB or FPS I can hit exactly who I intend to. Or in B&S's case not being able to do what you want because you can't target anyone because they're stealthed, behind cover, etc.
Example: you're a force master and want to use Ice Block, but you can't get into frost stance to access it because the assassin that's about to kill you is in stealth. I have exactly the ability I need but I just can't get to it because of game mechanics. If it was TERA I could just right click and shoot a frost palm at the air, then use the ability I want, but B&S can't do that with its soft locking system.
Of all the systems I've played, I would say TERA and GW2 work the best. They're fluid, complex, skillful (well, not so much GW2 since HoT) and reliable systems that generally do what you want them to without any frustrating mechanics.
Darkfall, not unholy wars, had my favorite combat. Care to elaborate on why you dislike it?
I never played the original Darkfall, only Unholy Wars -- Which I thoroughly enjoy the combat system.
Care to elaborate? From what I've seen in videos they are the exact same system -- save for height differences and stats. Is this what you are referring to?
They feel different. UW was far less smooth and felt like you had less control.
Darkfall, not unholy wars, had my favorite combat. Care to elaborate on why you dislike it?
It was simplistic with no depth or real strategy. Melee combat was a trainwreck of two spazzes circle strafing and slapping at each other while stuffing their face with berries. Ranged was two people sprinting erratically and bunny hopping while spamming the same attack over and over.
It was literally the worst combat I've ever experienced in an MMO and it's not close. I can't even think of another game where the combat was just flat out bad. Which sucks, because I was all aboard the Darfail hype train before playing it and felt terrible about convincing a bunch of people to buy the game.
i dont think fps games are you thing then..
The combat in darkfall is the strongest aspect of the game..
There is no single mmo on the market that offers more player skill combat combat then darkfall
how long did you play darkfall? or tried it? your opinion is complete irrevlant if you havent played the meta game
darkfall has over 150 skills.. im not even sure how you come with the same attack experience because there is a shitton of playstyles to our disposal
Well designed FPS games are definitely my thing. Dumpster tier, broken, trainwreck FPS is definitely not.
I actually agree with you that the awful combat in Darkfall is the strongest aspect of the game. Everything else managed to be worse.
Now you're just being a fanboy. TERA, B&S, Dragon Nest and a thousand other games offer far more complex, skillful and challenging combat. Half-Life Crowbar Only servers offered more skillful combat.
I played for about a month during beta leading up to launch. My wallet thanks me for not wasting any money. I had high hopes for the game and was willing to look passed the 1998
graphics, nonexistent content, boring grind, and shockingly bad UI for the sake of an open world sandbox PvP game, but
having the combat be as truly disgustingly bad as it was just kept me
from playing it any more.
Most of the skills are different variations of the same thing and everyone was able to train pretty much everything they wanted given enough time to macro, so everyone was a fighter-archer-mage.
They feel different. UW was far less smooth and felt like you had less control.
Noted, I'll definitely check out New Dawn when they go live.
Was there a bit more "liveliness" to it? Or pretty much the same in the NPC department? As in a few merchants here and there, but otherwise a pretty blank world other than the environment and monster spawns?
If Devs could ever incorporate Chivlary style combat to an MMO- that MMO would instantly become the greatest MMO of all time.
Gloria Victus? No friendly fire though. But everything else is pretty much there. Though not an MMO and they rushed the release so it feels unfinished, there is also Reign of Kings. Kind of a mash together of block-builder and chivalry.
FPS/TPS is the best,the worst is the TESO/TERA one because smell like action but is not and is clunky as hell,TSW is a case apart a complete disaster,I'd rather play a classic TAB targeting like WOW than these games. In between I would put GW2 because with the new controls has actually the best fantasy mmorpg combat.
Id like to see reticle targeted gameplay without dumbed down console action bars. Give me action combat with 30+ skills to use at any time.
I'm trying to phrase this without coming off hostile...
Why? Even in tab target games, or in exactly what you mention -- TERA -- most would be min-maxing down to a rotation of only 4-5 of those skills and an occasional use of 2-3 more for crowd control or other utility.
Kind of like the blank card in Cards Against Humanity "____, Awesome in theory, kind of a mess in practice."
Tera/ESO/AgeOfConan/BnS and such. Great targeting really. The targeting itself made the game very playable for me. I've played world of warcraft probably like 8 years so i'm no new guy to tab targeting. I don't hate it, i just find Tera/AoC targeting to be much more challenging and advanced. I could literally beat people in WoW without using my mouse and i dont find that to be OK.
"Tab targeting" or better worded "Traditional" combat, is the better direction for a properly designed MMORPG, but not just same old same old traditional... Traditional-based would be best. I say "traditional-based" because the traditional can be extended beyond anything yet accomplished yet. I say "traditional-based" because it has not been pushed to it's fullest limits yet. Then again, such would only be the case if one were to design an MMORPG. But neither companies nor gamer playerbases even want MMORPGs anymore... just more MMO games. At least it leaves an open untapped market waiting for the taking
Comments
There isn't a option in this poll, but turn based combat is something more mmos should play with. It works oddly well. It's lag resistant and it can be really complex and deep because you have time to think. It's the steps that games make to have their combat feel more actiony that don't work as well.
The colors of each poll choice tell it all ...
Red = Definite stop! Do not pass go! No Way No How!
Yellow = Warning! Proceed with caution!
Blue = Oh so true!
I do think TAB target games need to innovate instead of just copy pasting the WoW model over and over. Turn on Autoattack/spam your primary no CD low/no resource damage ability is painfully outdated. "Fireball fireball fireball fireball" just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I'm looking for more complexity and there's nothing about TAB targeting that should prevent games from having it. I think SWTOR did a decent job of adding some complexity to the WoW model, while FFXIV and to a lesser extent Rift came up short.
I think the soft target system of ESO, B&S and BDO is enjoyable, but it's probably the worst of the options. You have the simplicity of a TAB target game as you only need to hold your cursor over them to activate an ability, combined with all of the unreliable targeting that comes along with that system. B&S is often infuriating in that you can't target the person you want to in a crowd and end up wasting a CD because another target was infront of your intended victim for a split second, while with TAB or FPS I can hit exactly who I intend to. Or in B&S's case not being able to do what you want because you can't target anyone because they're stealthed, behind cover, etc.
Example: you're a force master and want to use Ice Block, but you can't get into frost stance to access it because the assassin that's about to kill you is in stealth. I have exactly the ability I need but I just can't get to it because of game mechanics. If it was TERA I could just right click and shoot a frost palm at the air, then use the ability I want, but B&S can't do that with its soft locking system.
Of all the systems I've played, I would say TERA and GW2 work the best. They're fluid, complex, skillful (well, not so much GW2 since HoT) and reliable systems that generally do what you want them to without any frustrating mechanics.
Care to elaborate? From what I've seen in videos they are the exact same system -- save for height differences and stats. Is this what you are referring to?
It was literally the worst combat I've ever experienced in an MMO and it's not close. I can't even think of another game where the combat was just flat out bad. Which sucks, because I was all aboard the Darfail hype train before playing it and felt terrible about convincing a bunch of people to buy the game.
The combat in darkfall is the strongest aspect of the game..
There is no single mmo on the market that offers more player skill combat combat then darkfall
how long did you play darkfall? or tried it? your opinion is complete irrevlant if you havent played the meta game
darkfall has over 150 skills.. im not even sure how you come with the same attack experience because there is a shitton of playstyles to our disposal
VG
Personally I think the leveling aspect exsists as a training/easing mechanic rather than a full advancement mechanic. First the levels don't punish you for not spending 2 hours learning 'build' mechanics and what everything does(IE you have 1 choice amongst 5 options). They also work great for sorting players around at the start of the game(A constant winner will level a little faster getting them out of the newbie bracket sooner, especially when combined with matchmaking).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
aka...archery in Darkfall
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I actually agree with you that the awful combat in Darkfall is the strongest aspect of the game. Everything else managed to be worse.
Now you're just being a fanboy. TERA, B&S, Dragon Nest and a thousand other games offer far more complex, skillful and challenging combat. Half-Life Crowbar Only servers offered more skillful combat.
I played for about a month during beta leading up to launch. My wallet thanks me for not wasting any money. I had high hopes for the game and was willing to look passed the 1998 graphics, nonexistent content, boring grind, and shockingly bad UI for the sake of an open world sandbox PvP game, but having the combat be as truly disgustingly bad as it was just kept me from playing it any more.
Most of the skills are different variations of the same thing and everyone was able to train pretty much everything they wanted given enough time to macro, so everyone was a fighter-archer-mage.
Was there a bit more "liveliness" to it? Or pretty much the same in the NPC department? As in a few merchants here and there, but otherwise a pretty blank world other than the environment and monster spawns?
No friendly fire though. But everything else is pretty much there. Though not an MMO and they rushed the release so it feels unfinished, there is also Reign of Kings. Kind of a mash together of block-builder and chivalry.
In between I would put GW2 because with the new controls has actually the best fantasy mmorpg combat.
Why? Even in tab target games, or in exactly what you mention -- TERA -- most would be min-maxing down to a rotation of only 4-5 of those skills and an occasional use of 2-3 more for crowd control or other utility.
Kind of like the blank card in Cards Against Humanity "____, Awesome in theory, kind of a mess in practice."