From a design point Worlds of Warcraft is probably the best mmo; and here is why. They polished the game to hell with a 6 year development time and over 200 staff. They refined principles made by other mmos and made them more dynamic and user friendly. Probably the most important part that not many mmo's developed took into consideration, the game is FUN and doesnt act like a second job. Sure it didn't really make anything new or ground breaking, but its probably the only mmo in known history that on release was actually a finished fully working game.
I've played just about every single mmo and Worlds of Warcraft is simply on another level that other games won't get to until maybe this year. So don't bash a game just because your jealous of its success. You should really aim to see why it is so popular and why games like Eve only has 25k simultaneous connections worldwide.
Man, this is what I get for leaving mmorpg.com for a while. When I was last here it was EQII vs WoW, now its EVE vs Wow?? Firstly, arguing over those two games is pointless. The ONLY thing they have in common is that they're MMO's. They're two completely different games otherwise if you compare game styles. EVE is more complex, but slower paced. WoW is... well my explerience is limited on WoW (short time on beta) but I see WoW as like a super roller coaster. Big, shiny, and over quickly. But that's one opinion.
And, no cleffy, while WoW was better prepared for release than most games, it was not bug free. At the very least the servers were in NO way able to handle the sheer numbers initially.
And any rating system that allows fanbois/haters to rate a game freely is not going to exactly be a fair representation. Too many people rate games they haven't even played and too much stock is placed on number of subscriptions. I hate Halo, but look at how many play that. Or the Oscars... Or the Grammy's.. or... you get the point.
And just because this is the best selling car doesn't mean I want to drive one...
___________~____________ Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Not to just go ahead and bash this game in a thread that shouldn't be about bashing, but come on.
Wow is a nice little solo RPG from 1-60. There is no need for you to group at all. Yes, you can group and can go into dungeons with groups to defeat a boss, but it is not needed to level. Could you not do the same in Diablo?
Then you get to the end game, or lack there of. Once your 60 the game turns into "how big is your guild" and "How long can you wait around"
First and foremost, the server wait times are terrible. On average during night time playing hours you can expect a 20 min wait just to get in. Once in you have two options, yes two.
You can go wait in line for BG's which will take anywhere from 1-4 hours. Or you can meet up with your guild and Raid. Raiding on average takes a at least a half hour of setting up a group and going over the plan.
So in essence in order to play end game content you are not playing on average for an hour and a half. This to me doesn't sound like a well thought out game at all.
Originally posted by Cleffy So don't bash a game just because your jealous of its success. You should really aim to see why it is so popular and why games like Eve only has 25k simultaneous connections worldwide.
again, you too are wrong. it doesnt matter how polished or finished a game is. what matters is gameplay and possibilities. nobody is saying WoW is a worse game because it has 6 million players. it is the other way around. a lot of people are saying WoW is better because it has 6 million players and EVE is worse because it has 100k susbcription. it is you that are basing your preferences out of suscription numbers.
what i am saying is that WoW is a worse game because it doesnt have the possibilities that other games have. not only EVE. even DAoC, EQ2, UO or Ryzom are deeper and more complete than WoW. they have better crafting, or better pvp, or better economy or better endgame. so what, WoW can do it all on an average level. you can craft, but it is not so useful. you can pvp, but no consecuences, the economy has no real sense.
there is one thing WoW has done better than anybody else: quests. they are really fun and well done. and that is why it has sold so many copies. well, that, and the warcraft franchise, and advertising, and noob friendliness.
but for me quests are a leftover from single player games. the more player created content, the better, on my opinion. and that means player run economy, non-consensual pvp, bounty hunting, spies, treason, player politics. try doing that on WoW.
so i dont think WoW is the worse game on history. it is just that i agree with the OP that it shouldnt be on the TOP 5. and on my opinion it doesnt matter how many copies has WoW sold. blizzard is a business, they made a really profitable product. good for them. i dont care. i think it is not one of the best 5 mmorpgs, regardless of the 6 million suscribers. i am not neither jealous nor angry at their success. i just dont care.
but dont fool yourshelves. people bash WoW because its gameplay, not because its popularity. you dont see many people bashing UO, or Morrowind, or GTA or Final Fantasy VII. i dont see people bashing The Lord of the Rings books or Valentino Rossi just because they are popular.
Originally posted by SnaKey EVE: beautiful MMO, even if it's not your style... if you know MMOs you can respect it. It's not cause there are alot of EVE Fanbois on this site, it's because the ppl who come to this site know games. WoW: Crap. The sheer number of players put it at #3.
And agian teh fanboi strikes, ever freaking day out your mouth you have to say something to knock WOW.. Ever freaking day its gettting old...Just like most of you tired post.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I never once said or dispute that WoW wasn't a very well polished game. Infact, WoW is a very nicely polished game. But, sadly that is the reason it sells and the only reason. Polished does not mean a good game, nor does it mean a good car.
Look at it this way: The average person is going out to buy a car. And they are into racing but know NOTHING about engines, and really don't know much about cars in general... they just like to go fast. This person comes to a dealership who has a 1967 Pontiac GTO that has a brand new rebuilt engine and is ready for a paint job with a flat grey, blotchy base coat. This car costs $15,000 Next to the GTO, the person sees a 2005 Ford Focus with a brand new paint job, a nice aftermarket body kit, and a fresh wax job. The engine is about to fall out and it needs a new muffler. This car costs $17,000 (I know that's not what it costs, just an example)
Which car do you think the average car buyer is going to buy? He's not going to buy the GTO, which is the pinnacle of sports cars. Even though, the engine in it is much better and more new than the 2005 Focus. Even after a test drive, the person will still buy the Focus.
---------------------------------------
And about the Gamespot review.
When Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees were #1 selling 6million records a week, on top of every pop chart. Do you really think that MTV would say something bad about them? They know those bands suck, but they are making them money. Why in the hell would they say anything bad about them: be it on MTV News or anywhere else? If they said anything bad about those bands that will hurt their money, they don't want to lose money. Same thing w/ Gamespot.
Good Business Sense tells you: You milk the living shit out of whatever is popular, praise it, get on your knees and suck it's dick. Because that's what makes you money and that's what you're about. Gamespot is no different.
When you put it like that I can see where your coming from when your rating games. But possibilites really don't matter in mmorpgs. If that were the case then Second Life should be number 1. The real factor, and the factor for any game for that matter is how fun the game is. Sure all the games you mentioned have alot of possibilities; but they usually involve alot of downtime just because they want to be more realistic, or you have the be high level to enjoy them. Is it really going to be fun to have a -10% penalty because you forgot to take a crap in town before going adventuring?
Thats why Worlds of Warcraft is number 3 and should probably be higher, because the game is fun.
Originally posted by Cleffy Thats why Worlds of Warcraft is number 3 and should probably be higher, because the game is fun.
yep, number 3 cause it is fun. just like shrek 2. number 3. same reasons.
guess what, i still prefer Snatch, Pulp Fiction, Casablanca or Somebody flew over the cokoos nest (sorry about the spelling ). "But, but, but... they are not funny movies!!!!!!"
Originally posted by Tinybina Originally posted by SnaKey EVE: beautiful MMO, even if it's not your style... if you know MMOs you can respect it. It's not cause there are alot of EVE Fanbois on this site, it's because the ppl who come to this site know games. WoW: Crap. The sheer number of players put it at #3.
And agian teh fanboi strikes, ever freaking day out your mouth you have to say something to knock WOW.. Ever freaking day its gettting old...Just like most of you tired post.
You forgot to add he complains about Guild Wars in basically all his post too. This thread so far seems to be an exception. So far.
Anyways, the OP hasnt played EQ2, so his "review" is flawed because of that. If you had 5 items you had to test, lets say drinks. Pepsi, Coke, Sprite, 7-Up, and Mug. If I just deside to skip one of those, does that not make the review/survey flawed or invalid, or incomplete?
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
I do think that WoW is highly overated, dont get me wrong... its fun. but so was anarchy online when i started playing that (a long time ago now) and it was my first mmorg, but there are so many overlooked games out there (and im talking mainly about ragnarok online) which i feel deserve to be in the top 5 games, i think it only got so high because of the amount of people that play it and think its great
your forum poll reminded me of something about WoW. when i was playing it (up until a few days ago) i'd mention to people some upcoming MMO. and generally i was met w/ "what is an MMO?" and i'd have to explain it to them.
i think alot of WoW players are those gaga over Blizzard and not actually MMOs themselves.
for a good majority (those i've spoken with in game, that is) have told me that WoW is the only MMO they've ever played. that all others are unfamiliar to them.
i've quit WoW due to the boredom of endgame, but this doesn't mean the game is fun up til you hit 60.
i'd play EVE Online if i could get gamecards for it.
EQ2 was actually a surprise when i last played the new trial. i might get it this week and see how a month of EQ2 pans out. it's not SF, but what is a girl to do?
GW isn't an MMO. it's still fun tho.
DAoC does not interest me one bit. but it's because of personal reasons (which i won't go into).
-t
_______
Now Playing: EQ2 Prior Games (in no order): SWG, L2, RO, PT, ROSE, CoH/CoV, AO, UO, EVE, WoW and a bunch of others. _______
EQ2 .. No way you can ever get me to play another SOE game. That company reputation is shot with me. Never will trust them again, even it was free.
WoW .. Been there and done that is the best terminology for this game. It nothing but a Gear/Faction Farmers Dream. They gotta implement a better infra-structure so that game can handle the que and for all that is holy, introduce more content. The game is a melting pot and no where to go, just doing the same thing over and over.
Guild Wars .. Can really judge this game, cause I havent given it a chance.
Originally posted by SnaKey Reading through the thread I am seeing 2 motifs. Polished & Subscribers I never once said or dispute that WoW wasn't a very well polished game. Infact, WoW is a very nicely polished game. But, sadly that is the reason it sells and the only reason. Polished does not mean a good game, nor does it mean a good car. Look at it this way: The average person is going out to buy a car. And they are into racing but know NOTHING about engines, and really don't know much about cars in general... they just like to go fast. This person comes to a dealership who has a 1967 Pontiac GTO that has a brand new rebuilt engine and is ready for a paint job with a flat grey, blotchy base coat. This car costs $15,000 Next to the GTO, the person sees a 2005 Ford Focus with a brand new paint job, a nice aftermarket body kit, and a fresh wax job. The engine is about to fall out and it needs a new muffler. This car costs $17,000 (I know that's not what it costs, just an example) Which car do you think the average car buyer is going to buy? He's not going to buy the GTO, which is the pinnacle of sports cars. Even though, the engine in it is much better and more new than the 2005 Focus. Even after a test drive, the person will still buy the Focus. --------------------------------------- And about the Gamespot review. When Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees were #1 selling 6million records a week, on top of every pop chart. Do you really think that MTV would say something bad about them? They know those bands suck, but they are making them money. Why in the hell would they say anything bad about them: be it on MTV News or anywhere else? If they said anything bad about those bands that will hurt their money, they don't want to lose money. Same thing w/ Gamespot. Good Business Sense tells you: You milk the living shit out of whatever is popular, praise it, get on your knees and suck it's dick. Because that's what makes you money and that's what you're about. Gamespot is no different.
yes, you did.
At least to me "polished" and "crap" are not the same thing, they are for you?
And your comparison is flawed. To me a better comparison is that WoW is like a car with a good engine, a great paint job, and nice looking intern. the car works perfectly and all. Not everybody will buy it, guess why? cause john doe likes sports car and jane doe wants a SUV.
About the gamespot review: For your information, the review was published on november 29. that is 6 DAYS AFTER RELEASE. Now, they either had a crystall ball, or they had no idea of WoW would have gained 6 millions users or 50K.
Beside, taking cheap shots at professional magazines just because you happens to not agree (but you seems do agree about the technical parts) is exactly that, cheap.
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Originally posted by Volkmar yes, you did. At least to me "polished" and "crap" are not the same thing, they are for you?
That's what we call a "Contradiction in Itself"
You said: I said that WoW wasn't polished. Which I haven't. I have said many times that WoW is crap.. Which it is.
Originally posted by Volkmar And your comparison is flawed. To me a better comparison is that WoW is like a car with a good engine, a great paint job, and nice looking intern. the car works perfectly and all. Not everybody will buy it, guess why? cause john doe likes sports car and jane doe wants a SUV.
WoW doesn't have a good engine and anyone who's ever played more than just WoW (or GW) can see that clearly. Apperantly, you don't or just dont' want to accept it. There is nothing great about WoW's mechinics even though the game is "pretty". (I don't mean pretty as in graphix)
Originally posted by Volkmar About the gamespot review: For your information, the review was published on november 29. that is 6 DAYS AFTER RELEASE. Now, they either had a crystall ball, or they had no idea of WoW would have gained 6 millions users or 50K.
There were 1million Beta Applications... That's a GIGANTIC number comparing to the Beta Applications of SWG, FFXI, or any other game ever released (which are below the 10ks). It's not a crystal ball. I knew WoW would be huge as soon as info was released on it because the hype was all over the place, 2YRS before it hit the stores. And I was itching like a cat w/ flees to get my hands on it.
Okay, I'll be honest I didn't read every post in this, But.... Heres my opinion *and just an opinion from a gamers point of view we ALL get biased just like some people say mmo's suck over fps's*
Anyway, The reason's I didn't like WoW? Well... Lets face it in the first hour.... your probably going to get flamed more then hitler for being a newbie.... that isn't to encouraging... Past that yeah you get to have some fun, classes are unbalanced and everyone seems to remake a char to just get that one awesome class....
Then when you get to the end game.... well lets face it.... your doing what you did 30 lvl's earlier.... killing in an instance...... Only thing driving most people do this, guilds... In my opinion... the guilds in WoW Weren't all that well planned out or mature, I do find a more mature crowd in FPS's then I tend to find in MMO's, Does this mean there are less there. No it doesn't but it feels this way,
Past the finding of a decent guild which has mature players, Works as a group, And actually have lives... It's not that bad of a game, The details there... Thats a plus, There's definately a well thought out class system *although it's not very balanced at times* Though that can be over come with some thinking, And in my last part of this....
For these factors... I'll say WoW Is a good game BUT!.... The experiance isn't.... It seemed I was spending more time looking for fun.... Then I had time having fun...
*the reason for the ...'s is due to interuptions on my side please forgive me for this if you find it annoying.*
Ok, this is coming from somebody that has never been a fanboi of anything and despises the company, Blizzard:
Simply put, WoW is the casual gamer's mmorpg: There is no tedious grind-fest, few arduous tasks involving running from one place to another and there is almost always an easy way to be productive.
The latter qualities along with the superb attention to detail, the twitch-based pvp (although this can also be found on EQ2 among skilled players) and ease with which one can level a crafting skill without having to devote character leveling time to it (a la Everquest) are precisely why it has been the only MMORPG to have kept me for more than a year.
I've played: AO, EQ(quit after 2 days... I couldn't stand that game because of the grind), EQ2 (2 months, but the grind blew me off), FFXI (My first grinding MMORPG; like one of those turn based final fantasy games.. only you pay 15$/month... biggest waste of money ever)....
The only other game I truly enjoyed, besides WoW, was AO: In many ways, WoW is like a polished version with less content to explore and a more userfriendly environment. The shade and martial artist classes seem like an inspiration to the WoW rogue, the engineer an inspiration to the warlock... etc.
I still don't understand the concept of "shallow": Give me a precise definition of what it is and why being "shallow" implies that it should have a lower rating than a ridiculous grind-fest like FFXI. EQ2 certainly had more quests and story-line, but this was hampered by the inaccessibility due to dispersed nature of NPCs and the grind. The graphics might be better, but the artwork isn't, which is another reason EQ2 failed to captivate me (although I understand this is really subjective).
What I think is that they should have two different lists: One for hardcore gamers and one for casual gamers, since the amount of enjoyment a casual gamer can derive is based on what he can accomplish in the time he has to play (this is what it is for me), while the hard-core gamer needs much more content ( a la grindfest used to cover expenses in most MMORPGs).
If I could make a list for casual gamers:
1. World Of Warcraft
2. Guildwars
3. EverQuest 2
4. Anarchy Online SL
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
To me "polished" do not means that it has a fresh hand of paint on top of a messy junk of metal, Snakey. to me it means that the game various parts works well.
As i said, you might disagree with the the design decision of the Devs (casual approach, not realistic graphics, PvE-oriented, no death penalty and so on), but you can't refuse the fact is a well done game.
I've played countless others MMorpg and i think WoW engine (1-59) works perfectly, thank you very much.
Each class has many more abilities and skills that i have seen in similar kind of games, the interface is a dream and easy to navigate, the fact is freely customizable by any player with some programming savyy just make it better, graphics and sounds are greatly atmospheric and the world is full of details, regions to explore, places to visits and so on. You never have to stay in same place if you don't want to as you always have 3+ places where to go to do your quests.
The quest based advancement remove a lot from the grinding sensations other games of this type offer, crafting is useful from level 1, doesn't take a life time to get into it and is completely integrated in the adventuring life. is not that you either a crafter or an adventurer, you are both... something that no other game succeded in doing so well.
Auction houses, mail system, even the chat interface is well thought off (with the fact it automatically stick to /party or /guild if you spoke in party or guild last time).
Combat is frenetic in respect to other game of this type, with dozens of tactical possibilities and different abilities for different situations.
Finally, WoW is fun. it kept me entertained so far and the most important thing is that it didn't felt like a second work. the game was fun from level 1. i didn't have to pass trough a "testing" period of 30+ levels to get to the "good parts".
So, yeah! i played lots of other mmorpgs, many of which i still like, and i still think WoW engine is great. Now shoot me.
Have a nice day.
Edit: i forgot to say about your point on gamespot review. Yeah, WoW had lots of beta players, so has DDO (1.5 millions pre orders). Do you really think this affected the reviewers? i mean... what score got 50 cent bulletproof? (more than 2 millions sold to today). Enter the matrix? (dunno how many gazillions copies sold).
So i disagree. Not to mention the fact most game magazines and on line site gave similar values to WoW, so blizzard must have reaaaally deep pockets and our whole game magazine reviewing class is a bunch of shady, corrupted thieves.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Comments
From a design point Worlds of Warcraft is probably the best mmo; and here is why. They polished the game to hell with a 6 year development time and over 200 staff. They refined principles made by other mmos and made them more dynamic and user friendly. Probably the most important part that not many mmo's developed took into consideration, the game is FUN and doesnt act like a second job. Sure it didn't really make anything new or ground breaking, but its probably the only mmo in known history that on release was actually a finished fully working game.
I've played just about every single mmo and Worlds of Warcraft is simply on another level that other games won't get to until maybe this year. So don't bash a game just because your jealous of its success. You should really aim to see why it is so popular and why games like Eve only has 25k simultaneous connections worldwide.
Man, this is what I get for leaving mmorpg.com for a while. When I was last here it was EQII vs WoW, now its EVE vs Wow?? Firstly, arguing over those two games is pointless. The ONLY thing they have in common is that they're MMO's. They're two completely different games otherwise if you compare game styles. EVE is more complex, but slower paced. WoW is... well my explerience is limited on WoW (short time on beta) but I see WoW as like a super roller coaster. Big, shiny, and over quickly. But that's one opinion.
And, no cleffy, while WoW was better prepared for release than most games, it was not bug free. At the very least the servers were in NO way able to handle the sheer numbers initially.
And any rating system that allows fanbois/haters to rate a game freely is not going to exactly be a fair representation. Too many people rate games they haven't even played and too much stock is placed on number of subscriptions. I hate Halo, but look at how many play that. Or the Oscars... Or the Grammy's.. or... you get the point.
And just because this is the best selling car doesn't mean I want to drive one...
___________~____________
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Wow is rubbish,
Not to just go ahead and bash this game in a thread that shouldn't be about bashing, but come on.
Wow is a nice little solo RPG from 1-60. There is no need for you to group at all. Yes, you can group and can go into dungeons with groups to defeat a boss, but it is not needed to level. Could you not do the same in Diablo?
Then you get to the end game, or lack there of. Once your 60 the game turns into "how big is your guild" and "How long can you wait around"
First and foremost, the server wait times are terrible. On average during night time playing hours you can expect a 20 min wait just to get in. Once in you have two options, yes two.
You can go wait in line for BG's which will take anywhere from 1-4 hours. Or you can meet up with your guild and Raid. Raiding on average takes a at least a half hour of setting up a group and going over the plan.
So in essence in order to play end game content you are not playing on average for an hour and a half. This to me doesn't sound like a well thought out game at all.
again, you too are wrong. it doesnt matter how polished or finished a game is. what matters is gameplay and possibilities. nobody is saying WoW is a worse game because it has 6 million players. it is the other way around. a lot of people are saying WoW is better because it has 6 million players and EVE is worse because it has 100k susbcription. it is you that are basing your preferences out of suscription numbers.
what i am saying is that WoW is a worse game because it doesnt have the possibilities that other games have. not only EVE. even DAoC, EQ2, UO or Ryzom are deeper and more complete than WoW. they have better crafting, or better pvp, or better economy or better endgame. so what, WoW can do it all on an average level. you can craft, but it is not so useful. you can pvp, but no consecuences, the economy has no real sense.
there is one thing WoW has done better than anybody else: quests. they are really fun and well done. and that is why it has sold so many copies. well, that, and the warcraft franchise, and advertising, and noob friendliness.
but for me quests are a leftover from single player games. the more player created content, the better, on my opinion. and that means player run economy, non-consensual pvp, bounty hunting, spies, treason, player politics. try doing that on WoW.
so i dont think WoW is the worse game on history. it is just that i agree with the OP that it shouldnt be on the TOP 5. and on my opinion it doesnt matter how many copies has WoW sold. blizzard is a business, they made a really profitable product. good for them. i dont care. i think it is not one of the best 5 mmorpgs, regardless of the 6 million suscribers. i am not neither jealous nor angry at their success. i just dont care.
but dont fool yourshelves. people bash WoW because its gameplay, not because its popularity. you dont see many people bashing UO, or Morrowind, or GTA or Final Fantasy VII. i dont see people bashing The Lord of the Rings books or Valentino Rossi just because they are popular.
I actually just discovered the difference between WoW fanboys and EVE fanboys.
EVE fanboys will state the EVE is the single best MMO. No matter what.
WoW fanboys will state there every single MMO other than WoW is teh ghey
And agian teh fanboi strikes, ever freaking day out your mouth you have to say something to knock WOW.. Ever freaking day its gettting old...Just like most of you tired post.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Reading through the thread I am seeing 2 motifs.
Polished
&
Subscribers
I never once said or dispute that WoW wasn't a very well polished game. Infact, WoW is a very nicely polished game. But, sadly that is the reason it sells and the only reason. Polished does not mean a good game, nor does it mean a good car.
Look at it this way:
The average person is going out to buy a car. And they are into racing but know NOTHING about engines, and really don't know much about cars in general... they just like to go fast.
This person comes to a dealership who has a 1967 Pontiac GTO that has a brand new rebuilt engine and is ready for a paint job with a flat grey, blotchy base coat. This car costs $15,000
Next to the GTO, the person sees a 2005 Ford Focus with a brand new paint job, a nice aftermarket body kit, and a fresh wax job. The engine is about to fall out and it needs a new muffler. This car costs $17,000 (I know that's not what it costs, just an example)
Which car do you think the average car buyer is going to buy? He's not going to buy the GTO, which is the pinnacle of sports cars. Even though, the engine in it is much better and more new than the 2005 Focus. Even after a test drive, the person will still buy the Focus.
---------------------------------------
And about the Gamespot review.
When Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees were #1 selling 6million records a week, on top of every pop chart. Do you really think that MTV would say something bad about them? They know those bands suck, but they are making them money. Why in the hell would they say anything bad about them: be it on MTV News or anywhere else? If they said anything bad about those bands that will hurt their money, they don't want to lose money. Same thing w/ Gamespot.
Good Business Sense tells you:
You milk the living shit out of whatever is popular, praise it, get on your knees and suck it's dick. Because that's what makes you money and that's what you're about. Gamespot is no different.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
When you put it like that I can see where your coming from when your rating games. But possibilites really don't matter in mmorpgs. If that were the case then Second Life should be number 1. The real factor, and the factor for any game for that matter is how fun the game is. Sure all the games you mentioned have alot of possibilities; but they usually involve alot of downtime just because they want to be more realistic, or you have the be high level to enjoy them. Is it really going to be fun to have a -10% penalty because you forgot to take a crap in town before going adventuring?
Thats why Worlds of Warcraft is number 3 and should probably be higher, because the game is fun.
This thread is just a bad joke. Eve-online fans are probably the single worse grouping of fans. I've ever had the displeasure of reading post by.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
yep, number 3 cause it is fun. just like shrek 2. number 3. same reasons.
guess what, i still prefer Snatch, Pulp Fiction, Casablanca or Somebody flew over the cokoos nest (sorry about the spelling
). "But, but, but... they are not funny movies!!!!!!"
And agian teh fanboi strikes, ever freaking day out your mouth you have to say something to knock WOW.. Ever freaking day its gettting old...Just like most of you tired post.
You forgot to add he complains about Guild Wars in basically all his post too. This thread so far seems to be an exception. So far.
Anyways, the OP hasnt played EQ2, so his "review" is flawed because of that. If you had 5 items you had to test, lets say drinks. Pepsi, Coke, Sprite, 7-Up, and Mug. If I just deside to skip one of those, does that not make the review/survey flawed or invalid, or incomplete?
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
I do think that WoW is highly overated, dont get me wrong... its fun. but so was anarchy online when i started playing that (a long time ago now) and it was my first mmorg, but there are so many overlooked games out there (and im talking mainly about ragnarok online) which i feel deserve to be in the top 5 games, i think it only got so high because of the amount of people that play it and think its great
your forum poll reminded me of something about WoW. when i was playing it (up until a few days ago) i'd mention to people some upcoming MMO. and generally i was met w/ "what is an MMO?" and i'd have to explain it to them.
i think alot of WoW players are those gaga over Blizzard and not actually MMOs themselves.
for a good majority (those i've spoken with in game, that is) have told me that WoW is the only MMO they've ever played. that all others are unfamiliar to them.
i've quit WoW due to the boredom of endgame, but this doesn't mean the game is fun up til you hit 60.
i'd play EVE Online if i could get gamecards for it.
EQ2 was actually a surprise when i last played the new trial. i might get it this week and see how a month of EQ2 pans out. it's not SF, but what is a girl to do?
GW isn't an MMO. it's still fun tho.
DAoC does not interest me one bit. but it's because of personal reasons (which i won't go into).
-t
_______
Now Playing:
EQ2
Prior Games (in no order):
SWG, L2, RO, PT, ROSE, CoH/CoV, AO, UO, EVE, WoW and a bunch of others.
_______
EQ2 .. No way you can ever get me to play another SOE game. That company reputation is shot with me. Never will trust them again, even it was free.
WoW .. Been there and done that is the best terminology for this game. It nothing but a Gear/Faction Farmers Dream. They gotta implement a better infra-structure so that game can handle the que and for all that is holy, introduce more content. The game is a melting pot and no where to go, just doing the same thing over and over.
Guild Wars .. Can really judge this game, cause I havent given it a chance.
Enjoying DAoC and EvE Online now.
yes, you did.
At least to me "polished" and "crap" are not the same thing, they are for you?
And your comparison is flawed. To me a better comparison is that WoW is like a car with a good engine, a great paint job, and nice looking intern. the car works perfectly and all. Not everybody will buy it, guess why? cause john doe likes sports car and jane doe wants a SUV.
About the gamespot review: For your information, the review was published on november 29. that is 6 DAYS AFTER RELEASE. Now, they either had a crystall ball, or they had no idea of WoW would have gained 6 millions users or 50K.
Beside, taking cheap shots at professional magazines just because you happens to not agree (but you seems do agree about the technical parts) is exactly that, cheap.
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
You said: I said that WoW wasn't polished. Which I haven't.
I have said many times that WoW is crap.. Which it is.
WoW doesn't have a good engine and anyone who's ever played more than just WoW (or GW) can see that clearly. Apperantly, you don't or just dont' want to accept it. There is nothing great about WoW's mechinics even though the game is "pretty". (I don't mean pretty as in graphix)
There were 1million Beta Applications... That's a GIGANTIC number comparing to the Beta Applications of SWG, FFXI, or any other game ever released (which are below the 10ks). It's not a crystal ball. I knew WoW would be huge as soon as info was released on it because the hype was all over the place, 2YRS before it hit the stores.And I was itching like a cat w/ flees to get my hands on it.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
Anyway, The reason's I didn't like WoW? Well... Lets face it in the first hour.... your probably going to get flamed more then hitler for being a newbie.... that isn't to encouraging... Past that yeah you get to have some fun, classes are unbalanced and everyone seems to remake a char to just get that one awesome class....
Then when you get to the end game.... well lets face it.... your doing what you did 30 lvl's earlier.... killing in an instance...... Only thing driving most people do this, guilds... In my opinion... the guilds in WoW Weren't all that well planned out or mature, I do find a more mature crowd in FPS's then I tend to find in MMO's, Does this mean there are less there. No it doesn't but it feels this way,
Past the finding of a decent guild which has mature players, Works as a group, And actually have lives... It's not that bad of a game, The details there... Thats a plus, There's definately a well thought out class system *although it's not very balanced at times* Though that can be over come with some thinking, And in my last part of this....
For these factors... I'll say WoW Is a good game BUT!.... The experiance isn't.... It seemed I was spending more time looking for fun.... Then I had time having fun...
*the reason for the ...'s is due to interuptions on my side please forgive me for this if you find it annoying.*
Ok, this is coming from somebody that has never been a fanboi of anything and despises the company, Blizzard:
Simply put, WoW is the casual gamer's mmorpg: There is no tedious grind-fest, few arduous tasks involving running from one place to another and there is almost always an easy way to be productive.
The latter qualities along with the superb attention to detail, the twitch-based pvp (although this can also be found on EQ2 among skilled players) and ease with which one can level a crafting skill without having to devote character leveling time to it (a la Everquest) are precisely why it has been the only MMORPG to have kept me for more than a year.
I've played: AO, EQ(quit after 2 days... I couldn't stand that game because of the grind), EQ2 (2 months, but the grind blew me off), FFXI (My first grinding MMORPG; like one of those turn based final fantasy games.. only you pay 15$/month... biggest waste of money ever)....
The only other game I truly enjoyed, besides WoW, was AO: In many ways, WoW is like a polished version with less content to explore and a more userfriendly environment. The shade and martial artist classes seem like an inspiration to the WoW rogue, the engineer an inspiration to the warlock... etc.
I still don't understand the concept of "shallow": Give me a precise definition of what it is and why being "shallow" implies that it should have a lower rating than a ridiculous grind-fest like FFXI. EQ2 certainly had more quests and story-line, but this was hampered by the inaccessibility due to dispersed nature of NPCs and the grind. The graphics might be better, but the artwork isn't, which is another reason EQ2 failed to captivate me (although I understand this is really subjective).
What I think is that they should have two different lists: One for hardcore gamers and one for casual gamers, since the amount of enjoyment a casual gamer can derive is based on what he can accomplish in the time he has to play (this is what it is for me), while the hard-core gamer needs much more content ( a la grindfest used to cover expenses in most MMORPGs).
If I could make a list for casual gamers:
1. World Of Warcraft
2. Guildwars
3. EverQuest 2
4. Anarchy Online SL
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
silly topic everytime they want confirmation about the games they like and topic replys again mainly about if wow sucks or not:P
Not only have wow 90% kids playing that game als on mmorpg.com these days are more and more kids replying.
And gues what with millions playing wow last i hear 7+million subscribers mmo becomes more and more kids games.
The matured mmo players hardcore pve/pvp are less and less.
One tiny spot of light in the tunnel, these dark days is for me DARKFALL 100% SKILL BASED FFA PVP AND REAL RPG GAME PLAY FOR HARDCORE MMO PLAYER.
The casual avarage players and kids wont survive in darkfall to difficult and to hard:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
I usually find myself tabing over to play WoW, while I 'play' Eve.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
To me "polished" do not means that it has a fresh hand of paint on top of a messy junk of metal, Snakey. to me it means that the game various parts works well.
As i said, you might disagree with the the design decision of the Devs (casual approach, not realistic graphics, PvE-oriented, no death penalty and so on), but you can't refuse the fact is a well done game.
I've played countless others MMorpg and i think WoW engine (1-59) works perfectly, thank you very much.
Each class has many more abilities and skills that i have seen in similar kind of games, the interface is a dream and easy to navigate, the fact is freely customizable by any player with some programming savyy just make it better, graphics and sounds are greatly atmospheric and the world is full of details, regions to explore, places to visits and so on. You never have to stay in same place if you don't want to as you always have 3+ places where to go to do your quests.
The quest based advancement remove a lot from the grinding sensations other games of this type offer, crafting is useful from level 1, doesn't take a life time to get into it and is completely integrated in the adventuring life. is not that you either a crafter or an adventurer, you are both... something that no other game succeded in doing so well.
Auction houses, mail system, even the chat interface is well thought off (with the fact it automatically stick to /party or /guild if you spoke in party or guild last time).
Combat is frenetic in respect to other game of this type, with dozens of tactical possibilities and different abilities for different situations.
Finally, WoW is fun. it kept me entertained so far and the most important thing is that it didn't felt like a second work. the game was fun from level 1. i didn't have to pass trough a "testing" period of 30+ levels to get to the "good parts".
So, yeah! i played lots of other mmorpgs, many of which i still like, and i still think WoW engine is great. Now shoot me.
Have a nice day.
Edit: i forgot to say about your point on gamespot review. Yeah, WoW had lots of beta players, so has DDO (1.5 millions pre orders). Do you really think this affected the reviewers? i mean... what score got 50 cent bulletproof? (more than 2 millions sold to today). Enter the matrix? (dunno how many gazillions copies sold).
So i disagree. Not to mention the fact most game magazines and on line site gave similar values to WoW, so blizzard must have reaaaally deep pockets and our whole game magazine reviewing class is a bunch of shady, corrupted thieves.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"