I cant seem to understand all the extreme hate and not letting go.....Now, many of you had read some of my post throughout the years to know I could be a very nasty critic......Agree ?
There are several mmos that I bashed deeply.
- One would be ArcheAge for it's $200 Alpha testing only to have a pay-to-win cash shop. This was so bad for me, all I could see is RED. ( never even played it, I was so mad ).
- Elders Scrolls Online, I hated the mega server to the max.
- Another Wildstar for being obnoxious.
Now with all this............. If Carbine, Zenimax or XL Games were developing a good mmo. I would drop all my hatred instantly............This is coming from the guy who sees RED !!!!
How can people hate for so long, never let go, and never give another chance ?.......Wouldn't You drop everything for a good mmo?........ At the very least, wait until after release if you had mistrust.
I also never said Meridian 59 and UO weren't real MMOs.
fodell54 said: EQ was one of the first real MMO's
launched.
Note: For those of you who do not understand, Meridian 59 and UO were made before EQ, so his comment that they weren't "real" MMOs is the issue and if you note, he claims he never said they weren't "real" MMOs. Classic case of double speak.
fodell54 said: I'm really not going to have this argument. There is no winner if you
really are unable to comprehend what you're reading. You sir are an
idiot.
There is no argument. There is me being right, you being wrong. The
above words out of your own hand are evidence of such. Run along, no
need to prolong your embarrassment, and your insults don't change the facts, in truth.. they verify not only your faults in this discussion, but your nature under error. Not a good set of qualities to have I am sorry to say.
You really seem to have a problem with comprehension of the written word. The comment is quite clear 'one of' meaning a member of a group. A group you then define to include Meridian and UO, I would also include AC and yes EQ. If that is the group then EQ is one of them.
I also never said Meridian 59 and UO weren't real MMOs.
fodell54 said: EQ was one of the first real MMO's
launched.
Note: For those of you who do not understand, Meridian 59 and UO were made before EQ, so his comment that they weren't "real" MMOs is the issue and if you note, he claims he never said they weren't "real" MMOs. Classic case of double speak.
fodell54 said: I'm really not going to have this argument. There is no winner if you
really are unable to comprehend what you're reading. You sir are an
idiot.
There is no argument. There is me being right, you being wrong. The
above words out of your own hand are evidence of such. Run along, no
need to prolong your embarrassment, and your insults don't change the facts, in truth.. they verify not only your faults in this discussion, but your nature under error. Not a good set of qualities to have I am sorry to say.
You really seem to have a problem with comprehension of the written word. The comment is quite clear 'one of' meaning a member of a group. A group you then define to include Meridian and UO, I would also include AC and yes EQ. If that is the group then EQ is one of them.
The game that hasn't come out yet is always the perfect game. It leaves mostly everything to the imagination which dreams of perfection.
Off hand I can't think of a single MMO that actually lived up to it's hype at launch and the good ones usually took about a year to hit it's stride.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
As a former UO player who started in 1998 I understand what your saying. Hence why I said one of the first MMO's, not the first. Reading comprehension above a third grade level is a helpful skill that you should probably work on developing. Again, if you read what I put instead of jumping into accusation mode you would see that it's just an opinion. I clearly say that I could be wrong about it being successful. I may very well be as it will appeal to a niche audience.
Interesting thing about reading...
You said and I quote:
fodell54 said: EQ was one of the first real MMO's
launched.
EQ wasn't the first real MMO, there was UO before it, and Meridian 59 before it, and many other early MMOs.
So, EQ was "real" but UO, Meridian 59, and those before it were not "real" apparently?
By the way, I beta tested UO in 1997, so excuse me if I am not impressed by your claim to fame.
Maybe you should spend more time "reading" you know... at the level you claimed I should have been so you could have clearly understood the point I made.
Are you feeling better about yourself now?
He said as you quoted "EQ was one of the first real MMO's launched". He did not say "EQ was the first real MMO launched." Do you not see the difference between the two statements? You did quote it yourself.
"real", this is the entire context of the comment. It implies all other MMOs before it were not real. You did see where I underlined it right? Do I need to put a bouncing ball or flashing arrow? /boggle
Well, if you are going to quote someone, then the entire quote must be considered in making your counter claim. Since you fail to consider the phrase "one of the first..." in your counter, then you fail to note, acknowledge, or conseed that fodell54 is in fact acknowledging that not only was EQ not THE first, but his direct omission of UO, Meridian 59, and any other title that released prior to EQ that is/can be considered an MMO were not only "real" but did in fact preceed EQ so it was definitely not the first as was stated by fodell54. So, because you incorrectly inferred what fodell54 said does in no way mean that fodell54 in any way implied that EQ was the FIRST REAL MMO.
Either way, fodell54 is correct in saying that EQ was ONE of the FIRST REAL MMOs released no matter how you wish to percieve it or the post you incorrectly took offense with.
Have a great day. There are things in a make believe universe that need to be killed so they can re-spawn and die again, and again, and a ....
I also never said Meridian 59 and UO weren't real MMOs.
fodell54 said: EQ was one of the first real MMO's
launched.
fodell54 said: I'm really not going to have this argument. There is no winner if you
really are unable to comprehend what you're reading. You sir are an
idiot.
There is no argument. There is me being right, you being wrong. The
above words out of your own hand are evidence of such. Run along, no
need to prolong your embarrassment, and your insults don't change the
facts, in truth.. they verify not only your faults in this discussion,
but your nature under error. Not a good set of qualities to have I am
sorry to say.
Wow. Please tell me you're kidding and this is just trolling. I mean it has to be. Right?
How can I kid? Your own words invalidate your argument and condemn you
to your responses. You do realize that by quoting the above, you
validate my point?
Again.. you claimed:
fodell54 said: EQ was one of the first real MMO's
launched.
(knowing that Meridian 59 and UO were released before EQ)
I also never said Meridian 59 and UO weren't real MMOs.
You have to understand what you claimed right? You do see the conflict above correct?
There is no conflict in what he said. 'One of' implies a group, what he said was EQ was a member of the group of games that were the early 'real MMO's. Right or wrong there is no conflict between that statement and acknowledging that Meridian and UO were also members of that group.
I think Sinist was just responding to the strong criticism from fodell64. They're somewhat on differnet sides and so conflict comes easy. But I have to say fodell54 did a better job of dealing with it.
I remember when I used to discuss EQ classic server in the company forums. There was a particular poster who was shrewdly critical and favored the modern game. My enemy. We used to argue and I didn't like him/her. The key to take away from it is to just walk away. Sometimes people won't see eye to eye and htey shoudn't try to. Walking away is wisdom.
And sometimes we have to work together. We don't bring up our differences when we work together. We use what we have in common. And why/how? Because we have a job to do. It focuses us.
Allow me to interrupt the argument over semantics to post an opinion related to the title of this thread.
"The industry needs Pantheon badly" is the title of this thread. Yes, there are a lot of people eagerly awaiting Pantheon's release. Yes, quite a number of those people post here, including myself. But we aren't the entire industry or gaming community. We can't even form a consensus opinion among ourselves. And the industry doesn't need Pantheon.
I doubt that Pantheon will cause competitors to stop work on competing products. I fully expect new ideas to come into existence through new games in the upcoming years. It is rare that refining a formula from a decade ago paves the way to innovation. I can't see Pantheon as a new paradigm, introducing us to amazing new experiences; that's just not the goal they are chasing. For that reason, I don't think there's a real need for Pantheon. It boils down to another WoW-clone, only more reminiscent of EQ1 than WoW.
I do hope that Pantheon will give me a few hours of entertainment at a reasonable price, and I expect that it will do that. I do not think that Pantheon-clones are the future of MMORPG gaming. I just can't see a host of other developers clamoring to make their own hi-res version of a classic.
(If they do, let me be the first to point these developers towards some of the classic Microprose strategy games).
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Don't take this wrong, but you are putting way too much "faith" into this game, and likely setting yourself up for disappointment.
You mentioned BDO having unfinished zones, this title is likely to launch as little more than a shell, see the development of Elite Dangerous for a probable release model.
Same is true for most Indie titles, they just don't have the funding to go full monty in the beginning, a phased approach will be the only option.
Which when you think about it, this is how all MMOs go, only question being is how much content do you get at launch and in each subsequent release.
You slam those playing BDO as being desperate, because you can't fathom how they could be enjoying themselves.
Perhaps you are just a bit envious (or even bitter) they've managed to "find the fun" in this title despite its designs?
Pantheon may be a great game, assuming it ever launches, I'm just not so sure you will enjoy it if it fails to meet your almost unrealistic expectations for it.
You know I thank myself daily that I have you to rely upon to tell me what I am (or should be) thinking. It's very refreshing... /sarcasm off.
In all seriousness though, the word "Fun" should have a trademark symbol next to it at all times in all posts everywhere. Because while "fun" is mostly subjective, it is also objective.
One of the firearms channels I watch occasionally the guy was telling a story about how he was in east Europe, and saw a bunch of kids running around kicking a "ball" they had made up of loose wire, and were having fun. So, from that viewpoint, they were having fun. However, if you were to give those kids say. A real football, or an xbox, or whatever, do you think they would chose to continue to kick the ball of wire around that they were previously having fun with?
People are only finding the "fun" in it, because they are so utterly starved for anything worth playing, they're giving it a try. Admittedly it is a pretty game, so there's that. But I 100% assure you this game will lose the vast majority of its playerbase in 3-6 months tops.
The OP's point is still valid. The industry knows there are a bunch of (IMO imbeciles) who will grab these games, pay a bunch of money to buy cash shop items, play it for a couple months, and then leave. Their goal is to capture those "whales" and what happens after they've done so, they couldn't possibly care less.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Sheesh. A lot of your posts are too over the top and optimistic OP. Every time I check these forums you're on some new kick about this game being the second coming. Like many of us here I am definitely excited about this game and watching it closely. I'm down to have some good conversation about it and I'm happy to see people excited, but your kind of excitement almost kills the mood. It seems like you've got a long history with this genre so I find it hard to believe that you can't speak about a game you're excited about without still realizing its large potential of failing. Hell, the game designers themselves probably aren't as self assured as you are.
Originally posted by Scagweed22 is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
I cant seem to understand all the extreme hate and not letting go.....Now, many of you had read some of my post throughout the years to know I could be a very nasty critic......Agree ?
There are several mmos that I bashed deeply.
- One would be ArcheAge for it's $200 Alpha testing only to have a pay-to-win cash shop. This was so bad for me, all I could see is RED. ( never even played it, I was so mad ).
- Elders Scrolls Online, I hated the mega server to the max.
- Another Wildstar for being obnoxious.
Now with all this............. If Carbine, Zenimax or XL Games were developing a good mmo. I would drop all my hatred instantly............This is coming from the guy who sees RED !!!!
How can people hate for so long, never let go, and never give another chance ?.......Wouldn't You drop everything for a good mmo?........ At the very least, wait until after release if you had mistrust.
I doubt anyone remembers that i was following Archeage likely before most and thought it looked promising.However as soon as i heard Trion got it,i was in the dumps,depressed about the game,i gave it no chance in hell with Trion at the helm.
I just see too many quick fanbois in every game,it is like they get blindsided into thinking each new game is the next coming of Christ.I never even thought Rift was very good,a decent effort for a first time developer but nothing special.
Now again the OBVIOUS is staring people right in the face but they refuse to see it.This game does not have the budget to be that amazing game we all hope for.However i have a LOT of faith Brad will do what he can with little money WAY MORE so than Chris Roberts and his 100+ million.I also looked over the long list of ideas for this game and i approve of most.
However to do this right,Pantheon has to start SMALL,a few maps of greatness then expand from there.If Brad tries to go for a giant triple A game with 20 maps he will mess it up,i don't want to see Project Gorgon.I seriously have more faith in Brad than most every producer/director out there except he takes backseat to Tanaka lmao.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yea I was just thinking........... did this just accidentally increase Pantheons Audience?
I don't know. It is quite possible that Pantheon is aiming for the niche audience that wants it to be 2000 again. That doesn't seem to match the targeted EQ:N audience in my mind.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I doubt anyone remembers that i was following Archeage likely before most and thought it looked promising.However as soon as i heard Trion got it,i was in the dumps,depressed about the game,i gave it no chance in hell with Trion at the helm.
I just see too many quick fanbois in every game,it is like they get blindsided into thinking each new game is the next coming of Christ.I never even thought Rift was very good,a decent effort for a first time developer but nothing special.
Now again the OBVIOUS is staring people right in the face but they refuse to see it.This game does not have the budget to be that amazing game we all hope for.However i have a LOT of faith Brad will do what he can with little money WAY MORE so than Chris Roberts and his 100+ million.I also looked over the long list of ideas for this game and i approve of most.
However to do this right,Pantheon has to start SMALL,a few maps of greatness then expand from there.If Brad tries to go for a giant triple A game with 20 maps he will mess it up,i don't want to see Project Gorgon.I seriously have more faith in Brad than most every producer/director out there except he takes backseat to Tanaka lmao.
The difference between Pantheon and other games, for me, is that on the design level, they demonstrate an understanding of what makes a fun game. Their philosophy is solid all around, and that translates to so many good ideas. I've derived more enjoyment from just reading and listening to the plans and ideas behind Pantheon than actually playing modern MMOs.
Whether VRI can complete Pantheon in a timely fashion with everything they've envisioned, of course, remains to be seen. However, at least on paper they have an understanding of what is necessary for the game to work, and be a fun experience. That is something other games do not have going for them. I don't care how much money they have, or what gimmicks you're parading, it takes more than that to make a well balanced, enjoyable game that can stand the test of time.
Comments
I cant seem to understand all the extreme hate and not letting go.....Now, many of you had read some of my post throughout the years to know I could be a very nasty critic......Agree ?
There are several mmos that I bashed deeply.
- One would be ArcheAge for it's $200 Alpha testing only to have a pay-to-win cash shop. This was so bad for me, all I could see is RED. ( never even played it, I was so mad ).
- Elders Scrolls Online, I hated the mega server to the max.
- Another Wildstar for being obnoxious.
Now with all this............. If Carbine, Zenimax or XL Games were developing a good mmo. I would drop all my hatred instantly............This is coming from the guy who sees RED !!!!
How can people hate for so long, never let go, and never give another chance ?.......Wouldn't You drop everything for a good mmo?........ At the very least, wait until after release if you had mistrust.
The comment is quite clear 'one of' meaning a member of a group. A group you then define to include Meridian and UO, I would also include AC and yes EQ. If that is the group then EQ is one of them.
Off hand I can't think of a single MMO that actually lived up to it's hype at launch and the good ones usually took about a year to hit it's stride.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Either way, fodell54 is correct in saying that EQ was ONE of the FIRST REAL MMOs released no matter how you wish to percieve it or the post you incorrectly took offense with.
Have a great day. There are things in a make believe universe that need to be killed so they can re-spawn and die again, and again, and a ....
'One of' implies a group, what he said was EQ was a member of the group of games that were the early 'real MMO's. Right or wrong there is no conflict between that statement and acknowledging that Meridian and UO were also members of that group.
I remember when I used to discuss EQ classic server in the company forums. There was a particular poster who was shrewdly critical and favored the modern game. My enemy. We used to argue and I didn't like him/her. The key to take away from it is to just walk away. Sometimes people won't see eye to eye and htey shoudn't try to. Walking away is wisdom.
And sometimes we have to work together. We don't bring up our differences when we work together. We use what we have in common. And why/how? Because we have a job to do. It focuses us.
"The industry needs Pantheon badly" is the title of this thread. Yes, there are a lot of people eagerly awaiting Pantheon's release. Yes, quite a number of those people post here, including myself. But we aren't the entire industry or gaming community. We can't even form a consensus opinion among ourselves. And the industry doesn't need Pantheon.
I doubt that Pantheon will cause competitors to stop work on competing products. I fully expect new ideas to come into existence through new games in the upcoming years. It is rare that refining a formula from a decade ago paves the way to innovation. I can't see Pantheon as a new paradigm, introducing us to amazing new experiences; that's just not the goal they are chasing. For that reason, I don't think there's a real need for Pantheon. It boils down to another WoW-clone, only more reminiscent of EQ1 than WoW.
I do hope that Pantheon will give me a few hours of entertainment at a reasonable price, and I expect that it will do that. I do not think that Pantheon-clones are the future of MMORPG gaming. I just can't see a host of other developers clamoring to make their own hi-res version of a classic.
(If they do, let me be the first to point these developers towards some of the classic Microprose strategy games).
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You know I thank myself daily that I have you to rely upon to tell me what I am (or should be) thinking. It's very refreshing... /sarcasm off.
In all seriousness though, the word "Fun" should have a trademark symbol next to it at all times in all posts everywhere. Because while "fun" is mostly subjective, it is also objective.
One of the firearms channels I watch occasionally the guy was telling a story about how he was in east Europe, and saw a bunch of kids running around kicking a "ball" they had made up of loose wire, and were having fun. So, from that viewpoint, they were having fun. However, if you were to give those kids say. A real football, or an xbox, or whatever, do you think they would chose to continue to kick the ball of wire around that they were previously having fun with?
People are only finding the "fun" in it, because they are so utterly starved for anything worth playing, they're giving it a try. Admittedly it is a pretty game, so there's that. But I 100% assure you this game will lose the vast majority of its playerbase in 3-6 months tops.
The OP's point is still valid. The industry knows there are a bunch of (IMO imbeciles) who will grab these games, pay a bunch of money to buy cash shop items, play it for a couple months, and then leave. Their goal is to capture those "whales" and what happens after they've done so, they couldn't possibly care less.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I just see too many quick fanbois in every game,it is like they get blindsided into thinking each new game is the next coming of Christ.I never even thought Rift was very good,a decent effort for a first time developer but nothing special.
Now again the OBVIOUS is staring people right in the face but they refuse to see it.This game does not have the budget to be that amazing game we all hope for.However i have a LOT of faith Brad will do what he can with little money WAY MORE so than Chris Roberts and his 100+ million.I also looked over the long list of ideas for this game and i approve of most.
However to do this right,Pantheon has to start SMALL,a few maps of greatness then expand from there.If Brad tries to go for a giant triple A game with 20 maps he will mess it up,i don't want to see Project Gorgon.I seriously have more faith in Brad than most every producer/director out there except he takes backseat to Tanaka lmao.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Whether VRI can complete Pantheon in a timely fashion with everything they've envisioned, of course, remains to be seen. However, at least on paper they have an understanding of what is necessary for the game to work, and be a fun experience. That is something other games do not have going for them. I don't care how much money they have, or what gimmicks you're parading, it takes more than that to make a well balanced, enjoyable game that can stand the test of time.
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