I stay in games that give me long term goals to work for aside or in addition to strictly developing a character. Working toward housing (saving gold, gathering materials, finding blueprints/plans, making furniture, etc.) building a ship -- how awesome would this be in ESO if we could sail and explore the seas? If they had a pirate expansion??? Think about how you could do that (one of the good points of ArcheAge and Darkfall). You could upgrade your ship, etc.
While ESO is an excellent game for it's type, this is just another example of the gaming public eating their own tongue. ESO could be the best fantasy title if only the designers had built her to last years.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
The PoE skill tree is one of the best character development systems I have played in any game.
The large variety of choices you can make on what to get and also how/when to get it. You feel like you are always making progress towards the next goal/keystone and that keeps you interested.
Personally I love that you can't easily switch builds in PoE, it means your decisions matter. They give respecs when they drastically change something, so there are opportunities to rethink things, but you can't switch on a whim.
I wish more games had similar character development.
Also trying to balance PvE and PvP just ends up screwing up the game(like WoW), you have to decide on what the focus of the game is going to be and prioritize it.
Its still a poorly designed game even if they put out DLCs with storyline every 3 months. Storyline is not what makes an MMO and MMO. Instead of having a virtual world they share with other people, people who play this game are just getting storyline after storyline thrown at them like a single player game.
Same thing could be said about FF14. Only in FF14 they want to try and be a 2004 raiding mmo. ESO is designed better because it lets all styles of play do what they want. That of course offends the mmo-dinosaurs who feel that all games should be designed around them and everyone should play their way.
Or its a good example of two games catering to different crowds. Neither one is invalid just because you dont like one.
I did not enjoy ESO, but that doesnt invalidate it as a product? of course not, I am glad it has its audience, more choice = better choice, I am tired of MMOs that try to be all things to everyone
I mean really does it bother you that much that some people like me really enjoy FFXIV? does it some how invalidate your preference of ESO. Is it too much to accept that different people like different things and that its ok to do so?
Did you read the post I responded to from the sites number on FF14 fan? It doesn't bother me that you enjoy FF14. It bothers me when FF14 fans roll into other game threads and talk about how much that game sucks
Well we can agree on that, for sure. Apologies if I misread your intent in your post.
Personally, I try (although sometimes I fail) to never rain on other peoples fun. While I, like most gamers, sometimes am guilty of arm chair developing, I like that the MMO Genre is full of choice. I like I can hop around a few games, if I am becoming bored of the current content cycle.
I honestly am more jaded by mmo fansites than I am the genre, I find I enjoy my games much more if I dont stray into comments sections on news articles, but occasionally I cant help my self.
Me and the author are on the same page. I have been asking for an MMO that didn't have a skill cap at all for a long time. There are so many ways this can be address, an I have posted a good many throughout the years.
I usually stop playing most MMO's when I hit that cap because I enjoy leveling and seeing the progess that you get from it, I do a lot of making alts. I don't enjoy gear treadmills as a way to get better. But I also like leveling to be extremely slow can't stand the you get a level every 30 mins which is meaningless.
I like the author believe that time spent playing should be rewarded, and I don't see a problem with a player gaining skills that make them stronger than someone just starting out. But I also don't see something like this ever in a game that has PVP, would have to be PVE only.
If you think ESO doesnt have progression, I feel you didnt actually play the game, because I have been playing one character for months, and have yet to fully progress my character. I still am trying to max out my traits, level up my skill lines for new builds, get more skill points, earn better gear to be a better player, finish all the questing content, attempting to become emperor in cyrodil, trying to hit all the dungeons/public dungeons, and even more. This game needs you to put alot of time into it to become one of the better, or time players. I am suprised people believe this game has little progression with the massive amount of content to do in the game. Heck you even have the option of trying to progress through the dark anchors for titles, and more dyes for your character. I feel that trying to earn all the dyes in the game along with achievements counts as endgame progression aswell. Oh wait theres trials too at endgame. I could go on with explaining more things to progress in, but theres sooo much. I am shocked one could say there is little endgame stuff to do. Try creating new builds too you can get into it.
Oh and another thing of progression is to collect all the armor motifs to gain new armor styles. In conclusion saying there is no endgame progression is invalid.
What a load of rubbish " ESO was meant to change that" I guess the writer of this thread never played games like EQ/EQ2 and AA advancement and much more.
I guess he never looked at games like Age Of Wulin, such rubbish and pontificating over an Mmo that has done nothing new.
You forgot an obvious one, stop selling content patches as DLC.
Or just sub
Why should I have to sub to a b2p game? Why should everyone else have to do so in order to access gear that would make them stand a chance against me? Why should any of this be necessary in a game with a cash shop?
You forgot an obvious one, stop selling content patches as DLC.
Or just sub
Why should I have to sub to a b2p game? Why should everyone else have to do so in order to access gear that would make them stand a chance against me? Why should any of this be necessary in a game with a cash shop?
with that comment, i don't think he's played it. or understands what the crown shop actually sells.
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
This game has far more problems than not giving more skills at end game and adding them isn't going to bring back the many that stopped playing before B2P and the onslaught of over priced DLC.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
You forgot an obvious one, stop selling content patches as DLC.
Or just sub
Why should I have to sub to a b2p game? Why should everyone else have to do so in order to access gear that would make them stand a chance against me? Why should any of this be necessary in a game with a cash shop?
with that comment, i don't think he's played it. or understands what the crown shop actually sells.
I actually do play it. There is only one type of item in the cash shop that I have least bit of interest in. That is the content expansions. And if I sub, I don't even have to buy those plus you can have crowns to buy costumes, pets or things that you can earn in game anyway.
if they can find a way to make mmorpg gamers earn so that we can eat, like entropia universe but you will die farming to earn money to buy food, esports only caters few and get large sums of money where there's us struggling to live and mmorpg.
EDIT: and can't even have decent internet and computer to stream twitch and enough money to sustain.
I think we focus to much on progressing period I think there needs to just be more things to do that matter. Like naval combat for instance, other things to direct from the urge of needing to hit end game BS. MMO's are just so boring....thats why I play black desert :P YA thats a plug.. This should be a world that feels alive that we can live for goodness sakes but most games just feel so dead.
In addition to my point above the author is advocating spreading out progression longer over time just for the sake of providing an illusion to progression. It doesn't actually give more or "better" progression like he asserts. It just adds a huge time sink and grind to the existing progression, rewarding those who have large chunks of time to idly burn. Again, horrible design.
As if there wasn't already a large amount of grind in ESO. Not sure why this would be a good idea. As usual, I agree with you my friend.
i stopped reading at high quality DLC packs honestly as it shows the author of this article is either paid by ZOS or hes clueless the cost of these DLCs in value is very low especially the thieves guild, you get one passive skill line dailies that are not worth a damn for pick pocketing and a small ass zone that is lackluster. Please tell me how this merits the price? Go look at the new fallout dlc coming out for 10 bucks and everything it has and tell me any ESO dlcs that are worth the cost? I play ESO and have mostly since april of 2014 and the amount of crashes bugs and balance is ridiculous at best. This company hands down has some of the worst devs Ive ever seen especially the idiot running it Matt Frior who used his name as a prominent point since he was part of DAOC and Mark Jacobs. Hes lead this ship in some of the worst ways Ive seen, never pushing for what players want and why most were drawn to it with the realm vs realm and him acting like he knew what he was doing. I guess this just proves Mark was the real brains and not his old ripoff of him dev teams.
I think we focus to much on progressing period I think there needs to just be more things to do that matter. Like naval combat for instance, other things to direct from the urge of needing to hit end game BS. MMO's are just so boring....thats why I play black desert :P YA thats a plug.. This should be a world that feels alive that we can live for goodness sakes but most games just feel so dead.
I'm not a huge fan of BDO---yet. I find it rather confounding to play however I am making more progress and am really trying to understand the game in all its complexity. You do make an excellent point though. I do think that a game like ESO (while I play and love) should start taking a few pages from more sandboxy games like BDO. With the number of folks playing, and enjoying a game like BDO, perhaps there are lessons to be learned. I would love to see a large number of side activities (outside of just combat) added to ESO to make it more interesting.
I do think that ESO is a great game though and I'm looking forward to seeing what all is to be offered.
Its still a poorly designed game even if they put out DLCs with storyline every 3 months. Storyline is not what makes an MMO and MMO. Instead of having a virtual world they share with other people, people who play this game are just getting storyline after storyline thrown at them like a single player game.
Same thing could be said about FF14. Only in FF14 they want to try and be a 2004 raiding mmo. ESO is designed better because it lets all styles of play do what they want. That of course offends the mmo-dinosaurs who feel that all games should be designed around them and everyone should play their way.
Or its a good example of two games catering to different crowds. Neither one is invalid just because you dont like one.
I did not enjoy ESO, but that doesnt invalidate it as a product? of course not, I am glad it has its audience, more choice = better choice, I am tired of MMOs that try to be all things to everyone
I mean really does it bother you that much that some people like me really enjoy FFXIV? does it some how invalidate your preference of ESO. Is it too much to accept that different people like different things and that its ok to do so?
Did you read the post I responded to from the sites number on FF14 fan? It doesn't bother me that you enjoy FF14. It bothers me when FF14 fans roll into other game threads and talk about how much that game sucks I was just pointing out the same complaints he made about ESO could be made about FF14.
I think he's wrong about both games. Storyline makes both FF14 and ESO better games for it. The rest of what he said about storyline after storyline makes no sense either.
I think both ESO and FF14 are great games for what they offer. I think people should enjoy the games they like. That's what gaming is about.
FFXIV gives a much larger MMO vibe than ESO. Really, your response doesn't make much sense. FFXIV just happens to be too casual for some players, and being designed to cater to console players has negative effects on gameplay there.
ESO somewhat feels like it's rail roading you into soloing and the group content is just supplementary...
Comments
The large variety of choices you can make on what to get and also how/when to get it. You feel like you are always making progress towards the next goal/keystone and that keeps you interested.
Personally I love that you can't easily switch builds in PoE, it means your decisions matter. They give respecs when they drastically change something, so there are opportunities to rethink things, but you can't switch on a whim.
I wish more games had similar character development.
Also trying to balance PvE and PvP just ends up screwing up the game(like WoW), you have to decide on what the focus of the game is going to be and prioritize it.
Well we can agree on that, for sure. Apologies if I misread your intent in your post.
Personally, I try (although sometimes I fail) to never rain on other peoples fun. While I, like most gamers, sometimes am guilty of arm chair developing, I like that the MMO Genre is full of choice. I like I can hop around a few games, if I am becoming bored of the current content cycle.
I honestly am more jaded by mmo fansites than I am the genre, I find I enjoy my games much more if I dont stray into comments sections on news articles, but occasionally I cant help my self.
I usually stop playing most MMO's when I hit that cap because I enjoy leveling and seeing the progess that you get from it, I do a lot of making alts. I don't enjoy gear treadmills as a way to get better. But I also like leveling to be extremely slow can't stand the you get a level every 30 mins which is meaningless.
I like the author believe that time spent playing should be rewarded, and I don't see a problem with a player gaining skills that make them stronger than someone just starting out. But I also don't see something like this ever in a game that has PVP, would have to be PVE only.
I guess he never looked at games like Age Of Wulin, such rubbish and pontificating over an Mmo that has done nothing new.
Why should I have to sub to a b2p game? Why should everyone else have to do so in order to access gear that would make them stand a chance against me? Why should any of this be necessary in a game with a cash shop?
with that comment, i don't think he's played it. or understands what the crown shop actually sells.
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I'm not a huge fan of BDO---yet. I find it rather confounding to play however I am making more progress and am really trying to understand the game in all its complexity. You do make an excellent point though. I do think that a game like ESO (while I play and love) should start taking a few pages from more sandboxy games like BDO. With the number of folks playing, and enjoying a game like BDO, perhaps there are lessons to be learned. I would love to see a large number of side activities (outside of just combat) added to ESO to make it more interesting.
I do think that ESO is a great game though and I'm looking forward to seeing what all is to be offered.
FFXIV gives a much larger MMO vibe than ESO. Really, your response doesn't make much sense. FFXIV just happens to be too casual for some players, and being designed to cater to console players has negative effects on gameplay there.
ESO somewhat feels like it's rail roading you into soloing and the group content is just supplementary...