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Pricing.
Mordiazi
Member Posts: 23
It's the only thing I am concerned about.
I played DR from 96 to about 03, then have stopped in every so often.
What made me leave the game at time, or didn't allow me to come back (For instance, I'm in the Army...when I deploy, I stop paying for the game since I can't play it, then when I get back I can't bring myself to start paying).
The prices were 10 for a normal account with 2 dollars each for another character...meaning that 10 was for just one character, then 2 for each additional.
Or Premium, which was 30, where you received a few character slots and access to Premie only hunting areas, got to try out spells first, some merchants, Fests were Premie only for around three days before they let in everyone else.
Then they had Platinum, which was around 75 bucks. This was a special server where there was a lot of GM interaction and RP enforcement.
Keep in mind, this is for a text game.
So needless to say, I'm worried. I'm worried that HJ will have similar pricing models where people who can afford it, or are willing to part with the cash...will have added benefits. It used to drive me nuts, and I was Premie for most of the time. The reason I went Premie was because a new guild house opened...a guild house that the whole guild(Guilds are equal to professions in DR) was clamoring about for years finally opened and only Premies could enter it for the first week. It drove me nuts.
Anyway...I really hope and pray that it isn't the case for HJ. I would, though, pay an extra five bucks to play on a server where RP rules are enforced. But I don't think that would be necessary because every RPer in the world would join the game just to play on those servers.
Anyway, when you're deciding how much to charge...please stay away from the DR model.
Comments
Melissa did say that she'd like to use a pricing system similar to DR, but couldn't actually give out the specifics.
I think we may see something in the ways of paying a few more dollars for extra character slots, and maybe even a few more dollars for a private server, but I actually share your concern.
There's two ways to look at this.
1. DragonRealms was a text-based game, with a smaller player-base than most MMORPG's, but it was still priced higher than the standard $15/month. I count premium as the standard because in most games, everyone (other than testers) gets to try new content at the same time, and when there are festivals, anyone can participate. Looking at it this way, DR is double standard MMORPG's, even though it's much easier to maintain.
2. There's going to be a [i][b]whole[/i][/b] different player-base. People who are used to games like EQ2 and WoW are not going to want to pay $30 for a premium account. And with the way people play these games, they're going to feel that they "need" any "advantages" a premium account may yield. Because of this, many players may just play something that they're more familiar with. You can also say that since there will probably be a lot more players, the price can be considerably lower.
My suggestion is that if they must have more than one pricing option (Melissa seems to think that more options = better, something with which I disagree), they should just make each tier something that does not affect gameplay. EQ2 has a good system. You can pay an extra dollar for some nifty out-of-game features, such as a character profile, complete and detailed item database, and advanced guild control, all from your web browser. They might also combine this with FFXI's character slot pricing. All of these things are cool, but don't directly impact what happens when you play the game.
I can also firmly say that if I am required to pay $30/month for this game, I (plain and simply) will not play. I haven't played any Simu games, and I don't know what they're capable of, but for $30/month, I'm not even willing to find out. (I really do want to play HJ, though. This looks like "the" game, "my" game.)
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
[double-post]
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
You summed up my every concern about pricing, Shroom_Mage.
Life isn't fair, but in a game, there should be a level playing field. You don't slip the banker $5.00 USD while playing Monopoly, looking for a couple of hotels under the table. Why should you be able to do that in any other game you play?
Is it now OK to pay your poker buddies for a look at their cards before the betting starts? How about paying your chess opponent to reveal their countermove before you take your hand off the piece?
Please remember that this is a game. Blizzard doesn't seem to have a problem with that. SOE does. Let us review the status of those two companies' games. Blizzard - One game has millions of boxes sold and accounts active. SOE - Five Games combined can't hold a candle to Blizzard's success.
I would argue that SOE's decision to make money off their game before looking at what makes a game successful is largely to blame. WoW offers no advantages to a player (other than non-intrusive Collector's Edition "toys" like mini-Diablo/panda) for spending more money.
So now I look at Simutronics' lineup of text-based games and I see... what? 100K active accounts across seven games? How many of those are platinum/premium/whatever? I don't mean to be snarky, but you've got no clue about MMOG marketing if you think that multi-tiered pricing is going to work for HJ. However, I'm sure the decision has been made.
Here's why it won't work:
Tiered pricing pushes elitism onto the masses, who, as a majority, are not elite. They see that you are offering more to those who can pay more and it breeds enmity.
Your subscriber base who is willing to shell out 50 - 75 bucks a month as a household total is severely limited. Why should Joe and Jill Gamer switch to HJ at 40 - 150 bucks a month when they can play half a dozen MMOGs for that price? In this house, we allow only one MMOG account to be active per person @ 15 - 20 bucks per person. Our family isn't the only one with this rule.
So here you stand isolating the vast majority of people who want to play this game to get a few extra dollars from a select few. What marketing model shows you that the stadium seating pricing plan works for MMOGs? In practice, I haven't seen that it adds to the game, the genre, nor the reputation of any company.
My guess is that you will still have people paying 75 bucks a month to play Simutronics' text-based games after HJ ships. Those people are happy where they are at and won't easily give up on the community they helped build. That's the definition of niche. If HJ becomes niche enough to merit 75 bucks per month in order to truly enjoy the game, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to move on to something with a more reasonable pricing plan. I can't afford to be elite.
Sorry, but you do pay $20 more to get the Monopoly set with crystal peices or the special edition sets etc...
"Tiered pricing pushes elitism onto the masses, who, as a majority, are not elite. They see that you are offering more to those who can pay more and it breeds enmity."
What a bunch of BS! Where the hell do you live? You want cable, pay 20 bucks. You want digital pay 40 bucks, High Def pay 50! You want options on your car, pay. Bigger seats, faster service, better service. Pay pay pay. I dont get penis envy just because my neighbor has digital tv. I just become his frind and watch at his house. That whole "elitest" arguement is just crap.
"I don't mean to be snarky, but you've got no clue about MMOG marketing if you think that multi-tiered pricing is going to work for HJ. However, I'm sure the decision has been made."
You have no clue about markets and how they drive prices. You think MMOG's are different than any other market in the "free" world? It's time for you to wake up and smell the capitolism.
Jonny
You are missing the point of why many people play mmorpgs. It's called escapism and it involves being immersed in a world that isn't a clone of ours. Who wants to "keep up with the jones'" like people seem to be obsessed with in real life. Not me. How about a world where being better than someone involves skill and not who has more money IRL? The mmorpg you're talking about is the latter.
Yes, tiered pricing works in real life and it makes companies money (hooray for capitalism) but how will it affect people's enjoyment of HJ? Time will tell, but there are already many people on several forums who have played previous simutronics tiered pricing games that have several reasons why it DOESN'T work in practice. Sorry to say, in their informed opinions "elitism" is exactly what it does breed.
A guy on the official HJ forums summed up the pro-tiered argument best when he said (and I'm paraphrasing as closely as I can) "I don't care that people won't all be equal. I have more money and want better things." It's truly a stance to get behind.
"A guy on the official HJ forums summed up the pro-tiered argument best when he said (and I'm paraphrasing as closely as I can) "I don't care that people won't all be equal. I have more money and want better things." It's truly a stance to get behind."
What an utterly gross misrepresentation of what that person typed. They said they can afford more and want to have the OPTION to pay for more enjoyment. What you implied with your mis quote is totally different than what they were saying. You also imply that tierd pricing has some direct correlation with imbalanced characters. Simutronics current games have tiers but, they only provide conveniences. They don't make characters more powerful. They don't give you the Sword of paper smashing.
I, personally, would prefer not to pay more. But I am not going to sit here and assume tierd pricing is bad without even knowing how Simutronics plans to implement it.
You're right.
In DR and GS, having a higher priced account doesn't get you ANYTHING that benefits your character so you level faster, or any special items. (alterations do not count, because non premie can get items altered too)
There are lots of convieniences, like owning a house, or closer hunting areas, or more vault space, but none of that makes your character physically better than another. They're mostly just bragging rights.
And you can argue that closer hunting grounds can make a difference, but most people just "move" to the area they need to hunt at until they are done there. There is still a community around, and there isn't anything permanently disabling them. They can also travel back to their "home" city if they want to, and at the MOST it will take a few hours, but mostly a few minutes.
I however would pay more for a really good rp server. Not much, but enough to discourage those who really don't wanna rp.
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
Tiered pricing is the new black. There are plenty of pros and cons. Simu could always make one give up a toe in order to play for a lifetime. That's a great way to keep the snerts out. I'd play, would you?
In my experience you got a nice basic package with DR anyway.
-Aelrion
I agree the basic package in DR is really good.
The only reason I EVER wanted to go premie was because of the houses and extra vault space..
And I STILL don't have a house. Isn't that sad?
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
Here is the quote I am referring to: "I can afford to pay more for better service and want that option. I don't really care if others can't afford the higher tier, it does not stop them from playing." Now how, in any way, did I "misrepresent" his quote? I simply said "It's truly a stance to get behind." and yes, I'm sorry but characters having access to better items and services in-game make their experiences inequal. You agree with him that richer people will have the OPTION to afford a better service. But I'm sorry, options only work if they are something you can actually acheive. Sure, I have the OPTION to buy a new porsche or a used VW but unfortunately my options are limited by my income. There are many people that cannot afford the platinum or premium services.
See that's the thing. I don't just ASSUME that tiered pricing is bad. That's where you misunderstand me. I have read numerous posts on this forum, the official forum, and other forums such as the vault network HJ forum. When people who have experienced the tiered pricing system who are not employees of simutronics post about it, the majority talk about its flaws. How it does not work. How it creates an unpleasant atmosphere between the haves and have nots. Some even say they quit previous simutronics games BECAUSE of tiered pricing. So no, I am not simply making things up.
I've read posts talking about special merchants that only premium/platinum users have access to who sell special items and do alterations of items. You say alterations dont' count because non-premium users can get them too but can they get them just as easily or as much as premium users? If not, then there is an inequality. Bragging rights are something I'd like to avoid in-game as well as that is one of those things that very easily creates enmity between basic and premium users.
I didn't even know about premium users having closer hunting grounds nor did I know that the basic users sometimes had to travel for hours to get to their, more distant, hunting area, but no that doesn't make me think tiered doesn't create feelings of ill will.
I don't understand why all rp servers can't be really good rp servers.
"I don't care that people won't all be equal. I have more money and want better things." It's truly a stance to get behind."
"I can afford to pay more for better service and want that option. I don't really care if others can't afford the higher tier, it does not stop them from playing."
If you can't see the difference you need help. You tried to tie in some crap about "equality and advantages for your character" and that also points to my statment about you ASSUMING.
"See that's the thing. I don't just ASSUME that tiered pricing is bad. That's where you misunderstand me. I have read numerous posts on this forum, the official forum, and other forums such as the vault network HJ forum. When people who have experienced the tiered pricing system who are not employees of simutronics post about it, the majority talk about its flaws. How it does not work. How it creates an unpleasant atmosphere between the haves and have nots. Some even say they quit previous simutronics games BECAUSE of tiered pricing. So no, I am not simply making things up."
Happy people don't post about being happy! Further, forums are not typically a good representation of a games total population. Many people don't read or post on forums. Finally, HAPPY PEOPLE DON"T POST ABOUT BEING HAPPY to any degree that unhappy people post. Yay, you found unhappy people so you must be right! God help us if the world worked that way, we would never accomplish anything.
Oh Simutronics, I am so glad you have tierd pricing. You guys are the best.
I honestly don't know about alterations, because I really never cared.. It wasn't something I need, regardless of being premie or not. I think they give out alteration tickets, and some other things.. but again, it was nothing I was ever concerned with so I don't know.
I just checked in DR, and the premium hunting areas are mostly very close to the regular hunting areas, with the exception of perhaps gargoyles being next to crossing instead of 5 or so minutes away. (I don't take the ferry when I go to shard, so that's why I'm saying 5) There really isn't anything gained from them, except the fact that they are mostly empty of other players..
I would actually kinda consider them worse, because you're more likely to get help if you need it in a regular hunting spot, because non premies can't save you in a premium area.
I don't think there are any hunting areas that replace the islands, which do take a couple of hours to get to, and people usually "live" on them for a few months at a time at least.
And I didn't say the rp servers wouldn't be good, I would just personally prefer to spit out a couple more bucks to keep snerts away. I don't want to play on a roleplaying server that isn't controlled, and if I had to pay a little more for it, I would.
And I'm not saying that's how it will be, because I don't know how they are doing that. I'm just saying it's an option to keep rp servers "clean" and it would probably work, and give it the attention it would need to keep it effectively in rp.
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
"I didn't even know about premium users having closer hunting grounds nor did I know that the basic users sometimes had to travel for hours to get to their, more distant, hunting area, but no that doesn't make me think tiered doesn't create feelings of ill will."
Travel in DR takes minutes. Any user can run the right script to get them just about anywhere fast. Travel to the island takes longer for everyone. For those people with enough skill, travel becomes even faster. Again, not tied to pricing but skill.
What are you talking about? of course I assumed, since I haven't played HJ yet. I am basing my opinion on people's testimonies and previous simutronics games with tiered pricing, which seems to be the most intelligent way to approach this situation. Mature of you to say I "need help" because I disagree with you though.
So... I can't be worried about how tiered pricing might affect my enjoyment of HJ because most people playing simutronics games are happy with tiered pricing based solely on the fact that they don't post in message boards. interesting assumption.
You win.
You may be entirely confident that simutronics will pull off tiered pricing in heros journey with nobody having a problem with it, but, based on people that have actually played it and how it works in other simutronics games, I respectfully disagree.
Why are you arguing with me? I'm not the one that said those things, but according to diviana, premium users have a closer hunting ground. That sounds more convenient to me any way you look at it.
I assume snerts are people that ruin rp immersion, is that true? If so I would hope normal "RP" servers would have restrictions and rp enforcement. If people are ruining someone's rp experience, they should be dealt with, premium server or not. IMHO. Another problem with platinum servers is that people might think more development time and resources are spent on that, rather than the basic servers. Even if it's not true, I can imagine people thinking it.
"So... I can't be worried about how tiered pricing might affect my enjoyment of HJ because most people playing simutronics games are happy with tiered pricing based solely on the fact that they don't post in message boards. interesting assumption."
You really need to start reading what was typed. I never said MOST people are happy with tiered pricing. I basically said that happy people don't post to the degree that unhappy people post. If you are happy you don't need your voice to be heard. Of course you can be worried, but thats not the way, I feel, you are presenting your post. I think you have already made up your mind and are using too many assumptions to support your position.
So here is an experiment we will never see ... Simu announces they are doing away with tiered pricing in their games AND doing away with all benefits that come along with tiered pricing. Then watch the forums and see IF the once happy people start to scream and yell because of the change. Then you can start to glean, just a little, how many people are for and against tiered pricing.
At the end of the day, MARKETS driving prices and the people in the back office at Simu are the ones that get to see all the numbers. If they are smart they will do what is best for the business.
You really need to start being less condescending especially since most people being happy with tiered pricing is implicit in what you said. You said "Happy people don't post about being happy!" Which means the people posting on the forums are the unhappy ones. Then you said "Further, forums are not typically a good representation of a games total population." Since it's common knowledge that vocal forum posters are the minority of any player base and since you bring this up in a conversation about tiered pricing, anyone can see why I would come to the logical conclusion you are saying most people are happy with tiered pricing.
What exactly is your stance on this topic? Do you think simutronics will be successful and have no problems with tiered pricing based on your previous experience with them? If so, that's an assumption. You are assuming things like I am assuming things. Claiming I am making assumptions doesn't invalidate my argument like you seem to think it does. For like the fourth time: My "assumptions" are backed up by facts I know about previous simutronics games and actual testimonies by people that have played simutronics games with tiered pricing. I want simutronics to be just as successful as you do. I don't think you understand that. I am not attacking them. Another thing I know is that the current one price pricing scheme works great for mmorpgs. It's a proven and effective way to sell them. Tered pricing for a big budget mmorpg hasn't been proven to not hurt sales or gameplay experiences. Thats what I'm saying.
Bad example. Why not go to a one price model that's slightly higher than basic so everyone can have all the perks?
Another thing. If you're saying most of simutronic's current playerbase doesn't mind tiered pricing (I'm not sure because you're being confusing) then I agree with you.
"You really need to start being less condescending especially since most people being happy with tiered pricing is implicit in what you said. You said "Happy people don't post about being happy!" Which means the people posting on the forums are the unhappy ones. Then you said "Further, forums are not typically a good representation of a games total population." Since it's common knowledge that vocal forum posters are the minority of any player base and since you bring this up in a conversation about tiered pricing, anyone can see why I would come to the logical conclusion you are saying most people are happy with tiered pricing."
I never stated that A = B and B = C so I disagree with what you think I implied, A = C. I have NO clue how most people feel about the pricing. My point of contention with you is that, I feel you are using very weak point to try to make a case against tiered pricing. You are not presenting a concern. You have decided you don't like tiered pricing and are trying to make that case. I am condescending because you seem to here what you want to hear, despite what I have actually written. I also just like to argue with people, it's good practice for me.
"What exactly is your stance on this topic? Do you think simutronics will be successful and have no problems with tiered pricing based on your previous experience with them? If so, that's an assumption. You are assuming things like I am assuming things."
As I said in a earlier post, I would prefer to pay less but I am not making judgments on tiered pricing until I know what that entails. Huge assumptions on my part, sorry
"Claiming I am making assumptions doesn't invalidate my argument like you seem to think it does. For like the fourth time: My "assumptions" are backed up by facts I know about previous simutronics games and actual testimonies by people that have played simutronics games with tiered pricing."
Again, ignoring what I typed! Yes, I said you were making assumption. Then I went on to point out how those assumptions are weak. Further, I pointed out how your "facts" are weak. This isn't TV where you get away with picking and choosing a sound bite of what I typed to make your point. You must take the whole of what I said, or I will call you on it. As for your facts. It does not mean you have a strong case just because you can find an example of someone that is unhappy. There are people that smoke their entire life and never get cancer. Does that mean the tobacco companies should be able to claim that smoking can't possible cause cancer? Just look at Bob over there, he smokes and look ... no cancer! I'd say that is rather weak and I bet you would agree.
"I want simutronics to be just as successful as you do. I don't think you understand that. I am not attacking them. Another thing I know is that the current one price pricing scheme works great for mmorpgs. It's a proven and effective way to sell them. Tered pricing for a big budget mmorpg hasn't been proven to not hurt sales or gameplay experiences. Thats what I'm saying."
This isn't about Simu and the success of HJ. Again, you are reading more into this than what I am saying. I know, it's human nature to try and derive more out of what someone is saying and I really shouldn't nitpick at your for it. So what do I think about tiered pricing? I guess I think that dollars drive innovation and I hope that Simu can maximize their profits and use those profits to continue to innovate. I also hope all those GM's working for fee have a chance to get paid some money, Simu employees feel comfortable and secure in their jobs, Simu hires more people (it's just good for the economy), etc ... I would love to have an inexpensive game to play but, not at a cost to others or innovation.
"Bad example. Why not go to a one price model that's slightly higher than basic so everyone can have all the perks?"
::Groan:: I was not trying to solve a "perceived" problem. I was presenting a situation that might cause the "happy" people to become unhappy and post how they like tiered pricing and want it back.
This is, honestly, my biggest concern as well.
I left DragonRealms in 02, after playing it since before the switch to the web, so about since '96 or '97. I loved it, but ultimately left because I was sick of the pricing. They took every advantage to "tax" the players with extra costs. Want a house? Extra cost. Want to get married? Extra cost. Want to participate in a massive in-game event that affects everyone in the game (except you if you don't pay)? Extra cost. Want to cheat? Extra cost. Want an image of yourself in the game when someone looks at you? Extra cost.
I know that currently, many of the extra costs are reduced or are in-game fees. Good. But for a long time they were highly expensive. I remember someone paying over $250 to get married in the game. And while having an extra server for cheaters seemed appropriate, I think it just should have been a server choice or not at all (if you think about it, it's the opposite of MMOs, where the RPers are sent to a different server and cheating is the norm.)
I understand that it's hard for a text-based game to survive these days, and I understand that they have a low playerbase, but they also have lower production costs and lower content costs, so they are charging $15 a month plus $2 a character is just greedy. Not to mention the whole Fallen and Platinum membership tiers.
While I could pay $75 a month for a game... I won't. Not unless this is a virtual reality game.
I love games, I've been playing games since I was a kid - in fact, DR was my first online game, but I cannot play a game that encourages out-of-world wealth to rule. A game should be a place where everyone starts out the same and becomes wealthy, powerful or famous based on their gaming skills, NOT their real-world pocket.
Bottom line: tiered pricing and overcharging for every single droplet of content will make me avoid this game like the plague. ( Expansion packs are understandable... to a point. I'm looking at you, EQ.
)
-Niksa
Looking for a real game.
Interesting. Thanks for telling me what I am doing and thinking. What I actually HAVE decided is that I have my doubts about tiered pricing being worth the RISK when a one-price scheme is proven to work.
Look. I've formed an opinion based on research of the topic (try the official forums where knowledgeable people break down whether or not tiered pricing is actually even better financially). You don't even have an opinion on the topic ("not making judgements [yet]"). You are just arguing with me for the sake of arguing ("it's good practice."). It's a waste of both of our time. If you want to just try to attack my argument because it delights you, seriously find something better to do. My facts and assumptions are weak? that's your argument? Congratulations, you disagree with me. I am expressing doubts and pointing out possible flaws in tiered pricing since this is a debate about pricing and I think it's important for people to know that using it could be a mistake.
Really? I'll let you decide what this open conversation is about then. You seem awfully defensive of them for not having an opinion though.
People don't like things taken away from them. Angry people saying they want tiered pricing back so they can have their perks again would in no way mean that tiered pricing is a good system. It wouldn't even necessarily mean they LIKED tiered pricing. They could just want their stuff back. A less biased situation would be allowing people to choose between tiered or a slightly higher than normal single price for the same perks, since that is a main point of our argument.
"Interesting. Thanks for telling me what I am doing and thinking. What I actually HAVE decided is that I have my doubts about tiered pricing being worth the RISK when a one-price scheme is proven to work."
I already stated in a prior post that, that was my opinion of what you were doing. I did not feel the need to state that again.
"I am expressing doubts and pointing out possible flaws in tiered pricing since this is a debate about pricing and I think it's important for people to know that using it could be a mistake."
If you really want debate, why don't you comment on my thoughts about innovation. You keep passing right by them during this discussion. I would be willing to bet that much of the reason you even get the chance to play HJ is due to the tiered pricing of their current games. Without that extra revienew do you think this would even be possible? Do you think it would be as good? People cost money, skill cost money, innovation cost money, but people like you SEEM to want it all for free. Give me a break and stop thinking about yourself so much.
"Really? I'll let you decide what this open conversation is about then. You seem awfully defensive of them for not having an opinion though."
My discussion with you was focused on the way you present your arguments. Not about Simu success or failure. So YEA, Really!
"People don't like things taken away from them. Angry people saying they want tiered pricing back so they can have their perks again would in no way mean that tiered pricing is a good system. It wouldn't even necessarily mean they LIKED tiered pricing. They could just want their stuff back. A less biased situation would be allowing people to choose between tiered or a slightly higher than normal single price for the same perks, since that is a main point of our argument."
Again, I think your trying to fix what you think is a problem. I just want to test a theory. In testing a theory you change as few variables as possible. That's why I suggest keeping the basic people the same and taking away the premium benefits. What you propose changes both groups with the greater effect being placed on the basic users. That just does not work for what I wanted to test.
Look, I am really not trying to be all that mean or condescending. I'm just well ... blunt and I do like to argue, as I pointed out. Disagreements, especially in text are tough. We don't get a sense of tone or inflection from the other person, so we miss a lot in the conversation. Then their is the fact that our language severely inhibits communication. People get mad, mean things get said, it happens all the time and with the safety of the Internet I bet it happens even more.
If you want to keep this up, well thats cool with me. I would ask that you start to comment about innovation, salaries for developers, IT staff, marketing, burn rates, infrastructure, co-location facility cost, etc ... This shit just ain't cheep. At the end of the day if you get a great game and someone else gets access to that same great game with more vault space, more outfits, more types of pets, but nothing that changes actual character development balance .... don't you think you would be happy to be playing that great game? It's almost like you think that every extra dollar from a premium account goes right into David W's pocket (Sorry David, cant remember your last name at the moment). I believe that those extra dollars end up benefiting everyone that plays the game; though better innovation, skilled developers, more developers, faster content production, etc ...
So now that we've officially established you haven't been focusing on the topic I've been trying to discuss but on critiquing the way I present my arguments, I'm sure you won't mind me moving on to people actually in the "pricing" thread to discuss their opinions on pricing. You seem like a smart guy, so let's just say you win the argument you were having. If you feel like taking a side and actually respectfully debating the pros and cons of tiered pricing, let me know. Otherwise, I'm really not interested in discussing things with you further.
So now that we've officially established you haven't been focusing on the topic I've been trying to discuss but on critiquing the way I present my arguments, I'm sure you won't mind me moving on to people actually in the "pricing" thread to discuss their opinions on pricing. You seem like a smart guy, so let's just say you win the argument you were having. If you feel like taking a side and actually respectfully debating the pros and cons of tiered pricing, let me know. Otherwise, I'm really not interested in discussing things with you further.
LoL. I guess you did not read my whole post. Go figure.